Sources (in USA) for items necessary for the TLM

I received this email from the Facebook group dedicated to bringing the TLM to Franciscan University:


Dear Members of the Dom Gueranger Society,

 The Chapel is in URGENT need of lists of available materials for the celebration of the Tridentine Mass. If ANYONE has readily available sources where various vestments (cassock, surplice, maniple, etc.) or other implements (candlesticks, chalice veils, etc.) could be borrowed or procured, PLEASE let met know ASAP. The chapel is prepared to buy some things, but if there are any cheaper or free sources, please let me know. The chapel needs such a list VERY SOON, as a formal report on the subject is being drawn up as we speak. Thanks for your help.

Could we actually get, in response to Summorum Pontificum, the classical liturgy at a university that proclaims such staunch obedience to the Holy Father.

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
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  1. Matt Q says:

    Never give up hope. Prayer works at one point or another. Meanwhile hope the faithful students at Steubenville have another hobby. A “university that proclaims such staunch obedience to the Holy Father” is so only insofar as it’s convenient for them. Anything which would require the fuller meaning of obedience is most casually tossed aside because it is not compatible with the true AGENDA.

  2. FUS Student says:

    Fr. Z,

    The last line (starting with “Could we actually get…”) is not a part of the email I received but my own commentary. Sorry if the email I sent wasn’t formatted correctly.

  3. Horst Kaska says:

    Could Matt Q. give me a hint as to where to learn anything about the “True Agenda” of Steubenville University?
    I have no affiliation with them, just an admirer of Scott Hahn.

  4. Will says:

    The Web store run by the Canons Regular of St. John Cantius might have some relevant items for them (namely Altar Cards, Birettas and learning resources).

    You can also download free Altar Cards here:

    Hopefully, that solves the need for altar cards =^)

    Good luck!

  5. FUS Student says:

    The “agenda” is Charismatic. They wish all their masses to look like this:

    Not the Traditional Roman Rite. By offering a TLM on campus it would become blazingly obvious that their liturgics are of the hermeneutic of rupture camp rather than that of the hermeneutic of continuity.

  6. fr.franklyn mcafee says:

    It troubles many that Steubenville so orthodox in many ways is struggling with SP.The chaismatic movement is not monolithic and jumping around is not typical of all.Fr.Edward O’Connor,the father of the Charimatic movement in the USA is a professor at Notre Dame.In his book explaining the movement to non-=charismatics,he defendssuch things as praying in tongues.But he states that the place for such phenomena is at a prayer meeting not at Mass.Indeed he says that is praying in tongues is done at Mass it is a work of the devil.I know of several charismatics inclined to the TLM.Alice von Hildebrand has been a long time member of the governingboard of Steubenville.She convinced the up to then anti-Steubenville traditionalist Dr.William Marra to endorse the University and to be the commencement speaker.

  7. totustuusmaria says:

    Dear Fr. Z,

    I’m an official of the Dom Gueranger society. This e-mail is regarding a recent meeting within the university to discuss the TLM. You see, the Friars’ refusal to allow the TLM on campus has turned into a public relations nightmare for the University. I’d like to thank everyone who took the time to express concern (in a respectful way) about this. It’s very important that developments remain the public eye until the University has made a favorable decision. The Dom Gueranger society is going to need to do some fundraising as well (as you can see from the e-mail), and if anyone has any suggestions for good ways to go about that, it would be much appreciated.

    As you can tell, this is a hopeful time for the students at Franciscan University. In addition to the possibility of them beginning masses next semester on Campus, there is another Mass at St. Peter’s this month. It’s the concern of the broader Catholic community which, more than any of the students and faculties efforts, has the most effect on the people in the right places. I beg everyones’ continued prayers for this, and I’ll keep you updated as much as possible.

  8. Deborah says:

    I have had concerns about the bad liturgies at Steubenville for a number of years now since I had witnessed them myself. They are embarassing to witness.

    The first time you attend Mass there you won’t know the responses because they use many unapproved, altered texts for the responses and acclamations . Actually many of them are the same as those used at Life Teen – unapproved by the Holy See of course.

    I have taken teens to a retreat there and we were told that unless we can “let loose” at Mass then the Holy Spirit does not dwell within us and our faith is dead.

    Former Steubenville students who live in my city seem to have a very strange combination of orthodoxy when it comes to morals and piety however when it comes to the Sacred Liturgy most of them despise anyone who mentions liturgical abuses and tradition. Odd but it’s easy to see why after attending a Mass at Steubenville.

    The Sacred Liturgy is the “source and summit” of our Catholic lives and it is of the highest importance, above all else. Therefore any Catholic institution that degrades Holy Mass has ripped itself from the very roots of our Faith. I would not even consider letting my teens go there unless I see some major changes go on.

  9. totustuusmaria says:

    Dear Deborah,

    I can’t predict exactly what’s going to happen at Franciscan University, the things you’ve noticed, however, are pretty common observations. There seems to be a bit of break between the Lex Orandi and the Lex Credendi. Nevertheless I think it’s important to not make the picture too black and white. Most of the students at Franciscan are (at least theoretically) in favor of the older form of the Mass, and there’s a spirit of love for anything that’s part of Tradition. Many students are uncomfortable with the liturgies on campus, and many of the faculty don’t like them at all. It’s really important to stress the good will of the students on campus. None of them want to disobey the Church, many just suffer from ignorance. They want to embrace everything which is “Catholic,” and they don’t realize that some of what they’re embracing in the Liturgy isn’t Catholic — such as the unapproved alterations to the responses.

    I believe that these issues, which were always voiced, are becoming more pronounced. The University is starting to take notice and there is change occurring. Establishing the Forma Extraordinaria on campus would be invaluable to the restoration of a felt consciousness of the relationship between the law of prayer and law of belief. That’s why it’s so important that all you pray for and support our efforts. Franciscan University is important to the life of American Catholicism. Please don’t write us off or oversimplify what’s happening on Campus. It isn’t a fight between the “good Catholics” and the “bad Catholics,” it’s a fight to inform and transform hearts. The students love Jesus, the Eucharist, and the Church so much. All that’s necessary is that the students have the opportunity to become more aware of their patrimony and more aware of the Church’s liturgical teachings.

    Please support our efforts.

  10. Eric says:

    Is Fr. Z on facebook? If not, he should be!

  11. Deborah says:

    Dear totustuusmaria,

    Please know that my prayers are with you and for the good of the students and staff at Steubenville.

    Many former Steubenville students are big players and pushers in the Life Teen agenda here in my diocese and they go on to encourage liturgical abuses as well as bad catechetics for the youth. So the poison is passed along all the way to London, Ontario, Canada from the liturgical abuses at Steubenville…..

    As a parent though I do think it is important that other parents are aware of what is going on there. It is very serious.

    As stated by the Church Herself the Sacred Liturgy is first and foremost of our priorities as Catholics. Holy Mass is the “source and summit” of our *entire* Catholic life. “The Church stands and falls with the Sacred Liturgy.” ~ Cardinal Ratzinger

    So I think then we can also say that a Catholic university stands and falls with the Sacred Liturgy they offer to their students.

    What Steubenville is/has been doing with the Mass is very bad and shows some fundamental underlying errors which are never confined to just the Sacred Liturgy – nothing happens in a vacuum.

  12. Any news on the TLM at charismatic-leaning Ave Maria University?


  13. Matt Q says:

    Horst Kaska asked:

    “Could Matt Q. give me a hint as to where to learn anything about the “True Agenda” of Steubenville University?

    I have no affiliation with them, just an admirer of Scott Hahn.


    Dear Horst:

    First off, I like Scott Hahn also. His works are good, however, one or two good professors does not the administration make. Yes, FUS is good in many ways but over time as I have seen and heard from those who have attended the place convey the school is not amenable to anything dealing with historical Tradition such as the Tridentine Mass, or even saying the Novus Ordo in manner the Holy Father would like. Oddly, the school offers ( or did offer ) Latin along with Greek during the Summer break, but all accounts are saying FUS is acting like they’re being asked to share toothbrushes. No, people are asking for the Tridentine Rite. The school is very much into the charismatic movement and the Extraordinary Form seems to compromise that somehow. The “Agenda” spoken of is anything which keeps the V2 mood, of which the Motu Proprio, to them, is a set-back. It reveals that certain mindset by dissenters of the Idult ( and we have read this in manny circles ) that the Pope is undoing Vatican II by decretal rather than Conciliar renunciation, instead of seeing that Sacred Tradition must accepted continually throughout time as stated in the Motu Proprio. In that, this kind of diatribe goes on and on and more and more people are discouraged and put off by such.

    Hope this helped you.

  14. Matt Q says:

    FUS Student wrote:

    “The “agenda” is Charismatic. They wish all their masses to look like this:

    Not the Traditional Roman Rite. By offering a TLM on campus it would become blazingly obvious that their liturgics are of the hermeneutic of rupture camp rather than that of the hermeneutic of continuity.”


    Eeeek. I wish I had seen your post before I wrote mine. LOL Anyway, nice to know I’m on track. Thanks. :)

  15. feminaprovita says:

    Remember Fr Z’s rules of engagement after Motu Proprio was released. Rather than complaining about the questionable orthodoxy of Franciscan’s Liturgies in the past, perhaps it would be better to turn our eyes to the present – to rejoice that the University’s Chapel, which once all but ignored such requests, is now requesting a list of items to buy. Consider helping the Dom Gueranger Society find inexpensive Liturgical supplies, and pray for our work, rather than slandering the University. There’s a big difference between the University having a charismatic “agenda” and the idea that the influential members of the administration were formed as Catholics through the charismatic renewal – the latter idea suggests that it’s fear, not rebellion, that’s causing them to be wary of the Motu Proprio, which makes a huge difference in the long run.

    Thank you, Fr. Z, for asking your readers to share their resources with the Dom Gueranger Society. And thank you to those who have contributed resources. You are in our prayers.

  16. Deborah says:

    One suggestion is to also contact The New Liturgical Movement blog and ask for help.

    I know the NLM will also be of great help in acquiring what you need to get the TLM started at FUS.

    One question – Has FUS actually given permission to go ahead with the TLM in the chapel or are you still waiting for permission? If still waiting, when will the answer be known?

  17. Holy Trinity Religios Arts says:

    We have everything!
    Holy Trinity Religious Arts
    P. O. Box 1434
    Montgomery, IL 60538
    630 664 2780

  18. totustuusmaria says:

    Matt Q,

    I think you’re mostly off the mark. Almost everyone at Franciscan University is very good and orthodox. A high number of people (though not the majority) are even very favorable to the TLM. Chapel Ministries is all in favor of the older form of the Mass being offered on campus, the administration seems amenable to it, the faculty have been quite supportive, and the students have signed petitions. The Friars are the ones holding the whole thing up, and their reasons are far from clear. I doubt that it’s as simple as “we’re charismatic, not traditional.” It’s more likely that the friars don’t want to learn how to offer the older form, they personally aren’t attached to it, and they don’t see much spiritual benefit to having it on campus. Franciscan University is far from unified on these issues. Generally the atmosphere is fairly favorable to whatever comes out of Rome (and that includes the Motu Proprio), but the situation is *complex*. Everyone should try not to oversimplify it.

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