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“This blog is like a fusion of the Baroque ‘salon’ with its well-tuned harpsichord around which polite society gathered for entertainment and edification and, on the other hand, a Wild West “saloon” with its out-of-tune piano and swinging doors, where everyone has a gun and something to say. Nevertheless, we try to point our discussions back to what it is to be Catholic in this increasingly difficult age, to love God, and how to get to heaven.” – Fr. Z
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YOUR RECENT COMMENTS
- on From “The Private Diary of Bishop F. Atticus McButterpants” – 25-04-16 – Meeting about updating liturgy in the diocese: “Am I picking up the first signs of the conversion of Bp. Fatty?!? Seems like the “grudge against beauty” is…”
- on D. Charlotte, NC: Another bishop about to crush people who desire traditional worship in the name of “concord and unity”.: “So, the people of Charlotte are about to go through the desert in a church with no name… I’m hearing…”
- on ROME 25/5– Day 42: elegant but low impact: “Dear Father, My wife and I will make our very first visit to Rome for Christmas and New Year, just…”
- on D. Charlotte, NC: Another bishop about to crush people who desire traditional worship in the name of “concord and unity”.: “In 2023 the previous bishop, Bp. Jugis, obtained from Rome permission to celebrate the TLM in the diocese until Oct…”
- on From “The Private Diary of Bishop F. Atticus McButterpants” – 25-04-21: Receiving news that the Pope died: “Bishop Fatty McButterpants already speaks Spanish. Burrito, enchilada, taco”
- on Leo XIV: “a very ‘say the black, do the red’ kind of priest”: “Wake up. Smell the coffee. Leo the Limp is Francis 2.0. And no thank you we won’t shut up at…”
- on “if only to feel normal again, just for a short while”: “TiminMiami Interesting Situation. That Dicastery has a prefect, Sister Brambilla and a pro prefect Cardinal Artime”
- on ROME 25/5– Day 42: elegant but low impact: “@Sid I have a sweet tooth, and try to have at least one gelato every day when I’m in Italy!…”
- on ROME 25/5– Day 42: elegant but low impact: “Sid: Gelato? No! I don’t have a favorite place. I don’t have much of a sweet tooth so gelato doesn’t…”
- on From “The Private Diary of Bishop F. Atticus McButterpants” – 25-04-21: Receiving news that the Pope died: “Good to hear about his Excellency. One worry he might have: Pope Leo may require all bishops to take Spanish…”
- on ROME 25/5– Day 42: elegant but low impact: “Back in the 1970s my elderly (Italian) grandfather would occasionally come over to my parents house for Sunday dinner. Prosciutto…”
- on From “The Private Diary of Bishop F. Atticus McButterpants” – 25-04-21: Receiving news that the Pope died: “Reminds me of “Flowers for Algernon” if anyone remembers that book.”
- on ROME 25/5– Day 42: elegant but low impact: “I like all these pictures of Rome, I have many good memories of my years there. I used to walk…”
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Father,
Do you know the history of that triple tiara?
Which Pontiffs wore it?
We hope that our present Holy Father will wear one again as he is carried forth on the Sedia gestora with attendants holding flabella
Hasn’t Benedict written previously, when he was a Cardinal, that it was right to get rid of the tiara and sedia gestatoria as they were symbols of the temporal power of the papacy? I’m positive I’ve read this in his work, but some quick googling hasn’t turned up a quote.
Anyhow, refocusing the papacy away from its tradition of temporal power toward a pastoral office is an important part of his work. I would be very much shocked to see a return of the tiara and the sedia gestatoria. Benedict is not rolling everything back to the 1950s, but resurrecting those elements of traditional that were inappropriately done away with.
Hasn’t Benedict written previously, when he was a Cardinal, that it was right to get rid of the tiara and sedia gestatoria as they were symbols of the temporal power of the papacy? I’m positive I’ve read this in his work, but some quick googling hasn’t turned up a quote.
Anyhow, refocusing the papacy away from its tradition of temporal power toward a pastoral office is an important part of his work. I would be very much shocked to see a return of the tiara and the sedia gestatoria. Benedict is not rolling everything back to the 1950s, but resurrecting those elements of tradition that were inappropriately done away with.
Danphunter1 asks: “Do you know the history of that triple tiara? Which Pontiffs wore it?”
The answer is: none. In order to fit the statue the tiara is larger than life size which isn’t obvious in the photo. It’s about 2 and 1/2 feet high with a diameter of about a foot and a half. Actually, it’s enormous. It can be seen in the exhibit of the treasury in the sacristy of St. Peter’s.
I think it should be pointed out that there were times when the Pope as Cardinal spoke about things as his own opinion. It does not necessarily mean he is intent on doing away with something or believing something should not be.
As we have seen in just recent months what the Holy Father is doing regarding the Liturgy as well various incidentals such as the type of copes and chasubles he’s been wearing ( not to mention the mitres ) would indicate a deeper appreciation of them than merely thinking he’s worried about temporal/spiritual this and that and worrying about where the line is…
One curious point. All the Popes had their coats of arms surmounted by the Tiara, except this one. In that, Chris T may have a point, at least insofar as the Pope’s own personal expression. ??
I don’t mean to suggest the Pope’s writings as a theologian are binding on him now. (I should also point out I’m not a Roman Catholic — though I have read a fair bit of the Pope’s theological work.)
However, it suggests a trajectory for what Fr Z calls the Pope’s “Marshall Plan”. I feel pretty safe in thinking that the tiara and sedia gestatoria are not only not going to make an appearance, but are sort of contrary to that plan. From an ecumenical standpoint, many of us see all of this — the return to traditional practices, as well as the continued emphasis on spiritual rather than temporal authority — as rather positive. I guess we’ll see where it goes, but even tiny little baby steps are good for the entire faith, in my view.
Whose coat of arms is at the cope?
Could I borrow this photo from you, Fr Z, for my blog?
Why have the recent Popes, Benedict included, seemingly dispensed with the traditional three-fingered blessing? They always use their entire hand, which is seriously annoying.
Actually I’m a fan of priests and bishops taking up this practice as well, allowed or not.
Chris T.
It is not a “rollback to the 1950’s” to use the Sedia.
Pope John Paul I used it in 1978.
The Holy Father is also the temporal ruler of the World as well as the spiritual leader.
Mauricio asks: “Whose coat of arms is at the cope?”
It is the arms used by the Chapter of St. Peter’s. All of the vestments used by the clergy of St. Peter’s Basilica are marked with those arms. Namely, two keys standing vertically and facing each other on a plain shield surmounted by the papal tiara and crossed keys. If you attend Capitular Vespers on Sunday evening at St. Peter’s you’ll see the copes decorated with these same arms. The cope the statue is vested in looks newer than what they used to use in years past. Perhaps they have simply used one of the copes from St. Peter’s sacristy? Anyway, that’s the coat of arms on the cope.
Father: wasn’t sure where to put this so I’ll put it here
http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/news_1.html
It seems that those in the press have come to realise what we already knew; that this is the place to get all the latest news first! :c).
Chris T:
“Hasn’t Benedict written previously, when he was a Cardinal, that it was right to get rid of the tiara and sedia gestatoria as they were symbols of the temporal power of the papacy?”
I know that he wrote:
“As long as the church wanders on earth, she has no right to glorify herself. The new triumphalism could become even more insidious than the tiaras and sedias gestatorias, which in any case and now more cause of smiles than of pride.” (The Ratzinger Report, Chapter One, Right-Left. Optimism-Pessimism.).
Szczebrzeszczynski quoting Cardinal Ratzinger: “As long as the church wanders on earth, she has no right to glorify herself. The new triumphalism could become even more insidious than the tiaras and sedias gestatorias, which in any case and now more cause of smiles than of pride.” (The Ratzinger Report, Chapter One, Right-Left. Optimism-Pessimism.).
It seems Pope Benedict XVI has revisited Cardinal Ratzinger’s views
on this one. After all, in the first year of his pontificate, the tiara
was gone from the Petrine feasts, and now, since last year, it is back.
It is no scandal that Pope Benedict has in some respects ideas that are
different from Cardinal Ratzinger’s. After all, the former has a charism
(the papal graces of state) that the latter lacked.
So basically, the same person,
but under different guidance due to the graces that the Holy Spirit
pours on the Vicar of Christ
Prof. b: Szczebrzeszczynski quoting Cardinal Ratzinger
Only on WDTPRS can one find something like that.