Anybody want to give this a shot?
COLLECT:
Praesta, quaesumus, omnipotens Deus,
ut nullis nos permittas perturbationibus concuti,
quos in apostolicae confessionis petra solidasti.
There is nothing especially difficult about the grammar and vocabulary of this prayer, though it is theologically profound.
NB: the solidasti is really solidavisti, a "syncopated" form.
Coat of Arms by D Burkart
on ROME 24/4– Day 30: Let there be LIGHT!: “Why, if life was the result of random events, is there such order in everything that exists? And why, if…” on ASK FATHER: Kissing the priest’s hand in the Latin Mass v. the liturgical spirit of Judas. Wherein Fr. Z rants.: “In this day & age, religious rituals are quaint and unnecessary. But the secular rituals people have for sports games…”
on ROME 24/4– Day 30: Let there be LIGHT!: “Linguine Marinara con Gambieri tonight. In your charity please pray for me. it appears that i will likely be fired…”
on ROME 24/4– Day 30: Let there be LIGHT!: “Father, may I ask in which church is venerated the beautiful image of St. Joseph in the holy card that…”
on ASK FATHER: Kissing the priest’s hand in the Latin Mass v. the liturgical spirit of Judas. Wherein Fr. Z rants.: “remember this?: …The Pope turned to the beggar and said, “Would you hear my confession?” The beggar replied, “but I…”
on ASK FATHER: Kissing the priest’s hand in the Latin Mass v. the liturgical spirit of Judas. Wherein Fr. Z rants.: “Thank you Fr. Z. kissing the hands that serve me my Lord. Not that I would ever be Pope (God…”
on ASK FATHER: Kissing the priest’s hand in the Latin Mass v. the liturgical spirit of Judas. Wherein Fr. Z rants.: ““monstrance says: 19 April 2024 at 1:31 PM Thank you Fr Z. Then there’s the scene of Pope Francis violently…”
on ASK FATHER: Kissing the priest’s hand in the Latin Mass v. the liturgical spirit of Judas. Wherein Fr. Z rants.: “Wonderfully done, Father. Thank you.”
on ASK FATHER: Kissing the priest’s hand in the Latin Mass v. the liturgical spirit of Judas. Wherein Fr. Z rants.: “Fr Z I have three things to write about here. First, Ss.Trinita looks stunning. I have, when in Rome, many…”
on ASK FATHER: Kissing the priest’s hand in the Latin Mass v. the liturgical spirit of Judas. Wherein Fr. Z rants.: “It isn’t a humiliation for us to behave with decorum. It also isn’t humiliation for us to behave with humility.…”
on ASK FATHER: Kissing the priest’s hand in the Latin Mass v. the liturgical spirit of Judas. Wherein Fr. Z rants.: “Here in Vancouver, Filipinos are the heart and soul of the archdiocese. We would not have full churches without them.…”
on ASK FATHER: Kissing the priest’s hand in the Latin Mass v. the liturgical spirit of Judas. Wherein Fr. Z rants.: “Dear Father, thank you for addressing this question and bringing in the additional context! Your line “It is wrong for…”
on ASK FATHER: Kissing the priest’s hand in the Latin Mass v. the liturgical spirit of Judas. Wherein Fr. Z rants.: “How paradoxical that the Judas liturgical mindset isn’t the one WITH the kissing, given how Jesus was arrested!”
on ASK FATHER: Kissing the priest’s hand in the Latin Mass v. the liturgical spirit of Judas. Wherein Fr. Z rants.: “Thank you Fr Z. Then there’s the scene of Pope Francis violently ripping his hand away from the faithful attempting…”
on ASK FATHER: Kissing the priest’s hand in the Latin Mass v. the liturgical spirit of Judas. Wherein Fr. Z rants.: ““That’s just a remanent of an imperial court…” Sold! I’ll take a double order, please!”
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A Daily Prayer for Priests
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since Sat., 25 Nov. 2006:
“concuti”?
Grant, almighty God, that we, whom Thou hast founded on the rock of Thy apostle’s testimony, may by no troubles be disturbed.
Or, “a Rock of apostolic witness”—I don’t know how to construe this for it to mean Peter as the rock of the sentence—I guess the first translation makes it sound a little like the Protestant version, where the rock is Peter’s confession, not Peter himself.
Father,
Isn’t todays Collect from the Mass of the Feast of St Peters Chair in Rome?
Which Mass’s Collect is different than the one above.
We beseech thee, O Almighty God, not to allow that we who are established through the confession of thy apostle Peter may be bombarded by troubles.
We beseech thee, O Almighty God, not to permit that any of us who are established through the confession of thy apostle Peter ever be shaken under disturbances.
“O God, Who by delivering to Thy blessed Apostle Peter the keys of the kingdom of heaven, didst confer upon him the pontifical power of binding and of loosing, grant that, by the help of his intercession, we may be freed from the bonds of sin: Who livest and reignest.”
Praesta, quaesumus, omnipotens Deus,
ut nullis nos permittas perturbationibus concuti,
quos in apostolicae confessionis petra solidasti.
Grant, we beseech Thee, Almighty God,
that you not permit any disturbances to shake us
who have been solidified on the rock of the apostle’s confession.
Grant, we beseech Thee, Almighty God,
that you not permit any disturbances to shake us
who have been solidified on the rock of the apostle’s confession.
Grant, we pray, all-powerful God,
that you allow no disorder to shake us, who,
by the rock of the apostle’s confession,
you have made firm.
Praesta, quaesumus, omnipotens Deus,
ut nullis nos permittas perturbationibus concuti,
quos in apostolicae confessionis petra solidasti.
Grant, we beseech Thee, almighty God,
that Thou permit us to be shattered by no disturbances,
whom Thou, on the rock of the apostolic confession, hath made firm.
Praesta, quaesumus, omnipotens Deus,
ut nullis nos permittas perturbationibus concuti,
quos in apostolicae confessionis petra solidasti.
Grant, we beseech Thee, almighty God,
that Thou permit us to no longer be shattered by Hippie nonsense at Mass,
which Thou, on the rock of the apostolic confession, certainly did NOT approve.
ICEL 1975
All-powerful Father,
you have built your Church
on the rock of Saint Peter’s confession of faith.
May nothing divide of weaken
our unity in faith and love.
ICEL Revised Sacramentary
Almighty God,
grant that no storm may shake your people,
for you have founded us on the solid rock
of Peter’s confession of faith.
Better Translation (imho)
Grant, we beseech [Thee], almighty God,
that you permit us to be shaken by no disturbance,
whom you made solid in the rock of apostolic confession.
Grant, we beseech you, almighty God, that you may never let us be shaken by any disturbance, whom you have made firm in the rock of the apostle’s profession of faith.
Grant we beseech you, Almighty God,
that no disquiet make shake us
whom you have established firmly
on the Apostle’s confession of faith.
Grant, we beseech, O Lord,
that you should not permit us,
whom you have firmly established
upon the rock of apostolic confession,
to be terrified by any disturbances.
Father,
The question raised above by Mary is one I had also. It does indeed sound like the anti-papal Protestant line to hear it seemingly said that we are strengthened “on the rock of apostolic confession” rather than “on the rock, Peter”, ie, on and by Peter’s faith and confession rather than his person and Office. But perhaps something is being lost in the translation? Matthew 16:18 reads “super hanc petram”. Could it be, by contrast, the “in … petra” of the Latin prayer is communicating something a bit different? Indeed, some of the later translators here have moved to “in” rather than “on”. Though still, there is alarming the feeling that a Protestant argument against the papacy is being communicated, and in this of all prayers!
Thus I am wondering in particular whether the ablative “petra” combined with “in” is meant to address an issue somewhat aside from any controversy about whether Peter himself is “this rock” (which the Church takes “for granite”, and very obviously in this feast day). Rather (it is my conjecture), the prayer proceeds from that doctrine to emphasize that we in the Church (built on the Rock of Peter) are also incorporated, in rocklike “solidarity”, as participants in the “apostolic confession” — “Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God” — asking God to preserve us in this despite all commotions. Well, what I’ve said here is more by way of question than solution.
My literalist take on it:
Fully supply, we beseech, omnipotent God,
that nothing shall allow to be shaken by disturbances
we who are made solid in the rock of apostolic confession.
Father,
What is the origin of this prayer? It does, even in Latin, seem to have a bit of Protestant flair, what with the whole “rock of apostolic confession” thing.
Grant, we beseech Thee, Almighty God,
that You would not permit us to be shaken by any disturbances,
whom You have made firm in the rock of the apostolic confession.
[Not terribly poetic as a translation, I fear]
There are many examples of the apostolic confession interpretation of the ‘Rock’ in early Christian literature (it is one of several valid interpretations). I don’t know the story on this collect but it is quite possible that it was lifted from an ancient source. In any case I wouldn’t be too hasty in suggesting a Protestant conspiracy. hehe
Hopefully someone around here knows all the details on this collect. I’m kind of curious too.
The Roman liturgical orations are much older than Protestantism, so it’s an error to think that these texts have anything to do with a Protestant interpretation. Similarly, there are patristic texts that rightly call Peter the rock, and texts that call his faith a rock. No contradiction here.
While many Church Fathers take the Rock in this context simply to be Simon Peter, some of them have also said that the ‘Rock’ is Peter’s confession. I’ve come across a couple of Protestant websites which assume this supports their position.
Contrary to what they’ve assumed, the Fathers who talk about Peter’s confession as the Rock do not mean that Peter alone is to be seen as the Rock on which the Church is built, nor should his confession alone (and out of context) be seen as the Rock. The Rock on which Christ has built his Church is ‘Peter-as-confessing’, and not just ‘Peter’ or ‘confession’, isolated from each other.
The collect, in refering to the ‘rock of apostolic confession’, is actually more ultramontane than it looks at first glance.
Sorry, I haven’t the time to quote references. Theodore of Mopsuestia pops to mind as one of those who espouses the ‘Peter-as-confessing’ idea.
I think it is okay for translations which you know are translations to sound like, well, translations.