PODCAzT 64: Bonaventure on Christ “the door”; Interview – Fr. Timothy Finigan

Today I have an interview with His Hermeneuticalness himself, Fr. Timothy Finigan.   We talk togther about Summorum Pontificum and matters liturgical and spiritual.  I think you’ll find this pretty interesting.

But first, we hear from St. Bonaventure (+1274) speaking to us from across the centuries in his De itinerario mentis in Deum (The journey of the mind to God).  This is the in Office of Readings for the Saint’s feast in the post-Conciliar calendar.  In the older, traditional calendar, we observed the Seraphic Doctor’s feast yesterday.

I then drill into a couple of his remarks, especially talking about how entering a church for Holy Mass prepares us for an encounter with Mystery.


The iTunes feed is working again… mysteriously.  Check it out!

Some of the last offerings (check out the PODCAzT PAGE):

064 08-07-15 Bonaventure on Christ “the door”; Interview – Fr. Timothy Finigan
063 08-07-12 Interview: Fr. Justin Nolan, FSSP; consecrated hands, Holy Communion and the Rite of Baptism
062 08-06-26 Interviews with and by Fr. Z; What has Bp. Fellay really said?
061 08-05-17 Pope Leo I on a post-Pentecost weekday; Fr. Z rambles not quite aimlessly for a while
060 08-05-16 Pentecost customs; St. Ambrose on the dew of the Holy Spirit
059 08-05-15 Leo the Great on Pentecost fasting; Benedict XVI’s sermon for Pentecost Sunday
058 08-05-14 Ember Days; Chrysostom on St. Matthias; Prayer to the Holy Spirit
057 08-05-13 John Paul II on the unforgivable sin; Our Lady of Fatima and the vision of Hell
056 08-05-12 Octaves – Fr. Z rants & Augustine on Pentecost
055 08-05-03 Tertullian, again; Fr. Rutler and Fr. Z on Archbp. Marini’s book
054 08-04-29 Pro-Abortion Politicians and Communion; St. Ambrose and Emperor Theodosius

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
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  1. josephus muris saliensis says:

    caritas, that was the anti-spam word. very appropriate to my comments, I shall try to follow it.

    1. Please cut down the singing bit at the beginning, people who listen to podasts want to get on with it, [Is that so.] not go through loads of introduction, especially if one is trying to show it (what is the English transitive form of “listen” – “fare ascoltare”?) to a visitor.

    2. There is something wrong with your mikes, your voice is twice the volume of the interviewee. Awkward while listening in the summer with the window open, I had to keep adjusting volume. [I am working to learn the technology. Some of us learn as we go. So, I have a choice: make them – don’t make them until they are perfect for John. What to do? o{]:¬) ]

    These are NOT criticisms…! [Oh?] Really excellent article, so good to hear an ordinary priest being a priest. Deo gratias.

    In Domino.

  2. Mac McLernon says:

    Excellent podcast. Thank you for putting these up, Fr. Z.

  3. josephus: BTW… the words in all that singing really is “getting on with it”. The words mean something. I picked them on purpose. They tie into the reading from Bonaventure.

    The music often, but not always, has a point.


  4. Katherine Therese says:

    I could listen to you all day Father. And I like the music, even if I don’t know what it is.

  5. Terth says:

    I posted this on the previous PODCAzT’s comment box, but in an effort to have my questions both seen an answered, I repost here:

    Maybe Baron Korf and I just don’t get it: How do we download PODCAzTs from iTunes? Can we only get it by subscribing? (Is there no way to download them one at a time?) Most especially: how do we download a previous PODCAzT once a newer one has been posted on the Blog? Any guidance would be helpful!

  6. antonb says:

    Dear Fr Z,

    You are a gem; and I love the i-Pod version of the priest. Like you I am not a great technophile but how can I download the podcazt to my computer so I can listen while I am travelling or at home without being on on the Internet?
    I am sure you would be pleased with the activity here Down Under in Sydney – there is a great feeling, a sense of grace and love with so many people celebrating their Catholic faith and life, a negative media notwithstanding.

  7. Father Z,

    Absolutely keep the singing part. Some of us are never priviledged to have that quality of singing in our parishes so we must get it from somewhere!!!

  8. Mark M says:


    Great Podcast, and I for one like the singing…

    I would agree about needing to equalise your sound volume with that of your interviewee; maybe your recording software can do this for you?

    Keep up the good work!

  9. Mark: I figure this out as I go, in my copious free time. I have no one to work with on this.

  10. Brian says:

    Thank you Fr. Z.

    I have only downloaded podcasts a few times; being on dial-up, well, I’m sure you know…. I did download this podcast, though, and want to thank you for it. I love to learn and always know that I am a little smarter every time I leave your blog. The podcast is the icing on the cake and I will certainly download again.


  11. Mark M says:

    Father, I appreciate that; I was hoping another commenter might have the solution!

  12. David O'Rourke says:

    That was a truly wonderful interview Father. At age 66 I am in that middle category and indeed in my teenage years leading up to the Council I bought or subscribed to everything I could get concerning Liturgical reform. A priest I knew who was sparing with his compliments told me I really understood the Liturgy. But I was rather alone in my enthusiaism.

    Then, around 1965 as the changes began to come in I felt an ever growing disatisfation. Many of my friends were seminarians and whereas they had not been iterested before they were now enthralled, ofen over what I felt to be drivel. IT WASN’T SUPPSED TO TURN OUT THIS WAY! I heard all the cliches e.g. “relavant to our modern age” or “the spiriti of Vatican II” and was accused of being all caught up in the externals when I complained about all the things they were doing ot the extrnals. But I stuck to my guns.

    So now I am at an age where I am supposed to be upset at what the Pope is doing but I’m thrilled.

    And by the way, there were many things in the reign of Paul VI which I was not fond of but he was spot on in Humanae Vitae and it’s tragic that the world didn’t listen to him.

  13. Brian Campbell says:

    Understanding the Mass is the work of Eternity! The glorious mysteriousness of latin in the Mass is but one introduction to the enormity of that work. Fr Finigan is right that even the mentally weak, and I include myself in that category, can sense “holiness going on” (my own term) in a well conducted Mass.

    The reintroduction of the widespread availability of the Latin Mass is most assuredly a gift from God, through his Holy Church. Gloria in Excelsis Deo!

    Pray for me, please, Frs. Z. and Finigan, and God bless you both.

  14. ALL: You might want to follow the Latin, which was posted on the blog Quantitative Metathesis.

    Christus est via et ostium, Christus est scala et vehiculum tanquam propitiatorium super arcam Dei collocatum et sacramentum a saeculis absconditum. Ad quod propitiatorium qui aspicit plena conversione vultus, aspiciendo eum in cruce suspensum per fidem, spem et caritatem, devotionem, admirationem, exsultationem, appretiationem, laudem et iubilationem; pascha, hoc est transitum, cum eo facit, ut per virgam crucis transeat mare Rubrum, ab Aegypto intrans desertum, ubi gustet manna absconditum, et cum Christo requiescat in tumulo quasi exterius mortuus, sentiens, tamen, quantum possibile est secundum statum viae, quod in cruce dictum est latroni cohaerenti Christo: Hodie mecum eris in paradiso. In hoc autem transitu, si sit perfectus, oportet quod relinquantur omnes intellectuales operationes, et apex affectus totus transferatur et transformetur in Deum. Hoc autem est mysticum et secretissimum, quod nemo novit, nisi qui accipit, nec accipit nisi qui desiderat, nec desiderat nisi quem ignis Spiritus sancti medullitus inflammat, quem Christus misit in terram. Et ideo dicit Apostolus, hanc mysticam sapientiam esse per Spiritum sanctum revelatam. Si autem quaeras, quomodo haec fiant, interroga gratiam, non doctrinam; desiderium, non intellectum; gemitum orationis, non studium lectionis; sponsum, non magistrum; Deum, non hominem, caliginem, non claritatem; non lucem, sed ignem totaliter inflammantem et in Deum excessivis unctionibus et ardentissimis affectionibus transferentem. Qui quidem ignis Deus est, et huius caminus est in Ierusalem, et Christus hunc accendit in fervore, suae ardentissimae passionis, quam solus ille vere percipit, qui dicit: Suspendium elegit anima mea, et mortem ossa mea. Quam mortem qui diligit videre potest Deum, quia indubitanter verum est: Non videbit me homo et vivet. Moriamur igitur et ingrediamur in caliginem, imponamus silentium sollicitudinibus, concupiscentiis et phantasmatibus; transeamus cum Christo crucifixo ex hoc mundo ad Patrem, ut, ostendo nobis Patre, dicamus cum Philippo: Sufficit nobis; audiamus cum Paulo: Sufficit tibi gratia mea; Exultemus cum David dicentes: Defecit caro mea et cor meum, Deus cordis mei et pars mea Deus in aeternum. Benedictus Dominus in aeternum, et dicet omnis populus: Fiat, fiat.

  15. Geoffrey says:

    Who has the nerve to criticize something that they aren’t paying for?!

    Thank you for all you do, Fr. Z!

  16. Deusdonat says:

    FATHER Z that was GREAT! For some reason I always thought you were European and therefore would have somewhat of a nordic accent.

    BTW, I personally like the music as well. 16th century Spanish? (yes, I know they are singing in Latin : ) BTW, if you like Iberian religious music of the Renaissance, I have my own personal collection if you’d like me to send you some. They are on LP’s, so I’d have to have them digitised first (no big deal).

  17. Thanks, Father Z, for the plug! My own rough translation is now up as well, which deviates slightly from that which you quote (from the Breviary translation?). Once this week’s seminar classes are over, I’ll be back to more regular translations of the Patristic readings from the Office of Readings.

  18. Father Z and Father T, the anecdote about the Portuguese shepherd reminded me of a story told by one of our seminary professors back in the 1960s. When he was about half way through his seminary studies he met a neighbour, a simple man like the shepherd, who asked him, ‘What part of the Mass are you at now?’ For that simple soul the Mass was everything.

  19. Alessandro says:

    Thank you Fr. Z for making popular St. Bonaventure and his FRANCISCAN theology, based on the love of God of the “poverello” Seraphic Father St Francis, overall through his actual writings

  20. Anthony OPL says:

    Father please forgive my ignorance, but I’ve forgotten the name of the hymn sung at the end of the interview. Could you please remind me?

  21. Anthony: I believe it is See, The Conquering Hero Comes.

  22. Ed says:

    Antonb: The very last option under Father’s graphic that says “Listen to the Podcast” is an option to download. This link will open a window allowing you to save the PODCAzT as an mp3. You can then create an audio cd, an mp3 audio cd (if your car’s cd player reads mp3’s–if you have a dvd player in your car as well, that should read mp3 cds), or load it onto your mp3 player.

    I haven’t been able to figure out anyway to download automatically the older PODCAzTs via iTunes, so I just do so from Fr. Z’s archives.

  23. Coletta says:

    Fr. Z.– I listened to this again this morning. This is really great. I love how you both talked about the true nature of active participation. The majority of people in the parish seem to have been taught to be hostile to those trying to pray at Mass as if we are “divisive” because our attentive is (striving to be) focused on God. The talks by the person who did the Parish retreat clearly stated this and made the problem worse than prior to the “retreat” aka indoctrination performance. I attended the first evening hoping for –well– Catholic truth. This person has done these retreats here more than once. Please pray for him and those responsible for bringing him to the parish. I am sure this is a widespread problem. Thank you again for addressing it.

    oh – I love the music – and the singing. WDTPRS podcasts are a treasure. Thank you!

  24. Agellius says:

    I LOVED the music, especially at the beginning. Can you tell me what it is, please?


  25. Mary Conces says:

    Dear Father Z,

    I finally got around to listening to this great podcast. (I, too, vote for the music.) I don’t really expect an answer, because I am posting so late, but I’m asking anyway: Is it my imagination, or is St. Bonaventure’s Latin simpler to read than a lot of the liturgical and historical things you translate? I came to it after hearing the podcast readings in both languages, and thought (or imagined) that I could follow it rather well. (Of course, I couldn’t have without the immediate previous “coaching”,but it still seemed clearer than most of what I haven’t even been able to stumble through.)
    Keep up the good work (and your chin–I’m sure I’m not the only one praying for you.

  26. Agellius: O Crux Fructus – Music at the time of Dante – Ensemble Lucidarium

  27. Mary: Bonaventure’s Latin, at least in that section I read, isn’t as hard as some of the things I have read in these audio projects.

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