If all time is eternally present, All time is unredeemable.

I picked up from Sandro Magister that there is under construction in Mecca a huge building which will be second in height (600m) to the tower in Dubai.

The building in Mecca will have 4 clocks, each, as they advertise, 5 times larger than the faces of the clocks of Big Ben in London… which they resemble somewhat.

The building is, in my opinion, spectacularly ugly, reminding me of the monstrosities built in the Soviet era.

Magister ends his comments saying:

"In short, the gigantic clock of Mecca is supposed to become the new ‘meridian of Greenwich’, not only for Muslims, but for the whole world."

Make no mistake: Those who are committed to Islam want to replace existing law or bend it to Sharia Law.  They want to replace Western ways.

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

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  1. So…does this mean there are going to be cockneys in Mecca?

  2. J Kusske says:

    Maybe this will finally get the French to buckle under and admit that Greenwich is indeed the Prime Meridian, not Paris.

  3. Paulo says:

    The “commitment to islam”, to which Father Z refers, goes far beyond the dedication of those who adhere to that faith; this commitment is being forced down the throats of “all men of good will” by the social pressure of “political correctness” and the media, and is quietly becoming one of the hallmarks of good citizenship (incidentally, being anti-Catholic is also “in”).

  4. sea the stars says:

    Details at http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=34622 I agree it is truly a ghastly conception, worthy of something from Ceaucescu-era Romania.

    According to skyscraperpage.com, the developers are the Saudi Binladen group.

  5. ray from mn says:

    People just don’t get it.

    Islamic forces have been attacking Europe and Christian civilization since Islam’s founding in the Seventh Century. In the first 100 years, they captured the Middle East, North Africa and Spain.

    The Byzantines held at Constantinople and Charles Martel and the French stopped them at Tours in 732 and pushed them back into Spain.

    In the 9th century, they attacked southern Italy and Rome. In 1095 the First Crusade was called, but by 1300 the Crusaders were driven from the Middle East.

    In 1453, Islam conquered Constantinople and the Byzantine Empire but by 1492, Ferdinand and Isabella had driven them out of Spain.

    Islam begins to wage war in southeast Europe and the Mediterranean. In 1571 at the Battle of Lepanto, the Islamic fleet was destroyed by an allied navy and the power of the Rosary.

    The Ottoman Turks continued to fight against the Austrians, Poles and Venetians in southeast Europe.

    In 1683, European forces under the command of King Jan Sobieski of Poland defeated the Ottomans at the gates of Vienna.

    With the increasing prosperity of Europe upon the discovery of North and South America and the colonization of much of the rest of the world by England, Spain and France, Islam retrenched.

    But since OPEC was created in the 1960s and Islamic countries have become immensely wealthy, aggression has resumed. Although now it is not always with military forces.

  6. JosephMary says:

    Tower of Babel anyone?

  7. Iconophilios says:

    So, can anyone just claim to have the Prime Meridien? Then, I hereby declare that from this day forward, Regina, Saskatchewan now is the Prime Meridien.

  8. Supertradmum says:

    Thank you, Father, for being prophetic and clear. This world dominance, as symbolized by the ghastly building, is a symbol of the arrogance and pride of Islam, two sins which the adherents throw at the West. Christendom is gone, and with it, the West’s claim to civilization. We have done it to ourselves,through complacency and apostasy. If we all, especially in this country, turn back to Christ and His Church, we shall be spared the coming humiliation.

    Happy Feast of the Assumption, the Blessed Virgin, who overcame, through her rosary, the powers of Islam in the past. Mary, Queen of the Rosary, Queen of Lepanto, Queen of Vienna, pray for us.

  9. raitchi2 says:

    Boy! This is neither a good sign for Western hegemony nor for believers in Islam. They have a hadith concerning actions like this:

    `Umar ibn Khattab (Allah be well pleased with him) said: “As we were sitting one day before the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him), a man suddenly appeared. He wore pure white clothes and his hair was dark black—yet there were no signs of travel on him, and none of us knew him. He came and sat down in front of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), placing his knees against his, and his hands on his thighs. He said, “O Muhammad! Tell me about Islam.”
    “Now, tell me of the Last Hour,” asked the man.

    The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) replied, “The one asked knows no more of it than the one asking.”

    “Then tell me about its signs,” said the man.

    The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) replied, “That slave women give birth to their mistresses; and that you see barefoot, unclothed, beginning shepherds competing in the construction of tall buildings.”

    Then the visitor left, and I waited a long time. Then the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) asked me, “Do you know, Umar, who the questioner was?” I replied, “Allah and His Messenger know best.”He said (Allah bless him and give him peace), “It was Jibril. He came to you to teach you your religion.” [Sahih Muslim]

  10. Magpie says:

    For a moment Father, I thought you were going to suggest that a new mug design was the answer to the threat of Islamic world domination!

  11. mobrien says:

    This complex Is a hotel/residential facility. Why are people getting upset about it?

    The best and surest way to deal with radical Islam for us as Christians is to cut our INDIVIDUAL oil consumption! Drive less — drive smaller cars — carpool and/or share rides — there are zillions of websites with energy saving tips. When the cost of oil drops below $20 a barrel, the radical Islamist fringe will start to fade. It is our co

  12. Too bad so many of us have decided Christian civilization is not worth defending.

  13. mobrien says:

    Sorry, my iPhone snapped off!

    To continue — it is OUR consumption habits that are funding both that hotel and jihad. Reduce oil spending and toy reduce funding for both.

  14. shane says:

    Stats show that many/most Muslims in continental Europe are practical atheists and don’t even believe in many key Islamic moral tenets (the sinfulness of homosexuality etc). A recent report in The Local also showed a collapse in birth rates of second generation immigrants in Germany.

    The Islamic states are now catastrophically emulating the disastrous Anglo-Saxon liberal democratic model. Western civilization was doomed from the moment Britain was allowed to join the EEC; de Gaulle was right about its hidden intentions.

  15. Frank H says:

    I wonder if this tall building is “plane-proof” ?

  16. muckemdanno says:

    Devoting all this energy to the talk of resisting Islam is like rearranging the deck chairs of the Titanic.

    Over the past 40 to 50 years, the Muslims have killed maybe 10 thousand Westerners. Over that time, Westerners have killed probably close to 100 MILLION of their own unborn children through abortion.

    Let’s get over this idea of Islam being an existential threat to the West. It is not. The West is committing suicide. Islam will inherit Europe by default. And as a matter of natural justice, they deserve it. They do not kill their own unborn children by the millions.

    I advise everyone to quit listening to the war propagandists of the mainstream media and ‘conservative’ talk radio and read the great Catholic, Patrick J. Buchanan’s book “Death of the West” for a rational – and hopeful – perspective.

    Oh, and quit voting for politicians who support what is probably the most extremist, anti-Christian, Islamic government in the whole world in Saudi Arabia.

  17. wanda says:

    Good question, Frank.

  18. catholicmidwest says:

    It’s all about conquest. It’s easy to dismiss Muslims as just a bunch of savages who are as crazy as bedbugs. And OK, they are that, but they’re also bloodthirsty as hell. They want our stuff, and they’re going to try to get it. It’s our job to prevent that if we can. Pretty simple for those who’ve got their head on straight. Problem is a lot of people don’t.

  19. Tom Ryan says:

    The threat posed by islam is demographic, not military or Sharia. “I also recommend Death of the West.”


  20. catholicmidwest says:


    There is much truth in what you say, but it’s all part of the same cloth. People are complacent about the bigger pictures, and insistent on their own little ones. They want what they want, everything else be damned. They don’t see what’s happening or where this is going. It’s the big drawback of a democratic system like ours.

  21. shane says:

    “The threat posed by islam is demographic”

    Well, Iran now has a Total Fertility Rate of only 1.7 (compared to 6.5 at the Revolution) which is lower than many European countries. ­In the UAE, Tunisia, Bahrain, Kuwait, and Lebanon, the TFRs have already sank to ­near-­European levels. Algeria and Morocco have TFRs of 2.4, but are also quickly dropping to European levels. The UN World Population Prospects Report predicts that TFR in Indonesia (the world’s most populous Islamic country) for the years 2010–15 will drop to 2.02.

  22. shane says:

    muckemdanno, I agree with your point about abortion. Compared to the millions killed every year by the family planning industry, most other ‘threats’ seem pretty minor.

  23. Bornacatholic says:

    The best and surest way to deal with radical Islam for us as Christians is to cut our INDIVIDUAL oil consumption!

    What was the Western World’s oil consumption back in the 7th century?

  24. Supertradmum says:

    Death of the West is a great book. However, we only need to look at the history of the West to see that the Islamic threat has returned as it once threatened Christians in the past. Catholics who do not see the dangers are too politically correct to understand that yes, there are some people who hate us, not merely because they lump all Westerners into a group who are morally degenerate, but because they hate Christians, period.

    Why September 11th? Because of the Battle of Vienna. Why the rhetoric of the Crusades? Because of the Battle of Lepanto? It doesn’t matter which threat faces the Catholics, these are still threats. Whether the West and the Church is attacked by atheists, relativists, leftists, communists or socialists, the result is the same-the attempt to destroy the work of God, which is the One, Holy, Catholic Church and other Christian churches. Where the West is weak is in the fact that Christians no longer think like Christians, but like secularists, or Marxists, or relativists. If we all thought as Christians, with a Christian worldview, our discernment would be clearer.

  25. Incaelo says:

    As if that’ll ever work. Assuming all Middle-eastern and North-African countries can agree to switch from generally accepted time zones to this ‘Mecca Mean Time’, what will that accomplish? Isolation from the rest of the world, which in turn will harm them economically and politically.

    I’m no fan of Islam, but such plans should be met with the light-hearted mockery they deserve. It’s certainly not something to take seriously.

  26. Supertradmum says:


    When the West and especially America, becomes bankrupt, and the East does not, as the currencies are not based on the dollar, we shall have to take these things seriously.

  27. shane says:

    Who cares about western values anyway? The (liberal democratic) values of the west today are the values of the Renaissance, the Enlightenment, Liberalism, the Glorious Revolution, and the French Revolution. Catholicism is a universal creed; Catholics should be championing Catholic values, not western values.

    It’s true about the moorish conquest of Spain, but don’t forget that many of the descendants of these Moors gave sterling and absolutely indispensible service to the Nationalist cause in the Spanish Civil War. Franco in return gave millions in endowements to the Islamic religion in Spanish Africa.

  28. Supertradmum says:


    The Catholic Church created Western, European civilization, a highly documented fact, through classical education, the perpetuation of the legal system in Canon Law and some state laws, art, architecture, manners, all the theology of the Sacraments leading to better lives, including the sanctity of marriage, which raised the role of women in society, etc. The list is endless.

    Hilaire Belloc, Warren H. Carroll, Thomas E. Woods, Jr., etc. could be read on this point.

    Without Western Civilization, I would be wearing a burqa and would have already been stoned to death for studying the Koran-no thanks…

  29. Oleksander says:

    good job shane,

    let me add the only Christian nations left in all-so-glorious (sarcasm) Western Civilization is Poland, Greece and perhaps Romania (plus Malta too I suppose) everywhere else materialism and pleasure trump religion, Christian West is dead and wont be back in our life times.

    heres more pictures on the building, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraj_Al_Bait_Towers curious on how they will supply it with water

  30. Ed the Roman says:


    Oil prices were way down throughout the 90s. Didn’t help.

    Cutting the oil consumption of POVs in the US is not going to cut revenues in the KSA, Kuwait, etc. by anywhere near enough.

    We can only be safe from the Dar al Islam when the countries in the Dar al Islam have governments for which the idea of the Dar al Islam is not a critical policy element. THis can only be accomplished through a careful blend of killing Mufsidoon and encouraging middle-classedness for ordinary Muslims. It will help a lot if we stop exemplifying a mdille-classedness that is not functionally atheist and depraved.

  31. Iconophilios says:

    Oleksander, I think that you could still add Lithuania, Ireland – they are still pretty Catholic.
    Also, remember, when pagan Rome was at the hieght of it’s decadence, it fell. The Catholic Church was the only thing that survived through the Fall of Rome.
    Western society is getting quite decadent and, eventually, will collapse, but the Catholic Church will survive.

  32. shane says:

    Supertradmum, western civilization has been totally destroyed, although it can viewed in its remnants in the countries Oleksander mentions. I couldn’t care less about liberal democracy (of the ‘right’ or ‘left’ variety) nor the ‘right’ of women to dress to like sluts. My views on most social issues are almost indisguistable from most Muslim integristes. Russia under Putin has also been also been undergoing an encouraging revival (both religious and social), and Putin has stood up to the financial terrorists and con-men in the City of London (which is why the British press so constantly demonize him). The effete Anglo-Saxon model imposed on Europe post-1945 was hugely ameliorated by Christian Democracy but Britain has dedicated itself to destroying Christian Democracy, and has largely succeeded since its unwise admission to the EEC in 1973 (as de Gaulle prophesied). Britons are so ignorant of their harm their countrymen do all around the world.

    In many ways much of modern Islamic terorrism and the suppression of secular pan-Arab nationalism is a legacy of history British brutality and interference. While Ataturk was secularizing and Europeanizing Turkey, Prime Minister McDonald helping to re-establish the Caliphate in Afghanistan and undermining Arab Nationalists.

  33. ray from mn says:


    “Stats show that many/most Muslims in continental Europe are practical atheists and don’t even believe in many key Islamic moral tenets (the sinfulness of homosexuality etc).”

    When the local mullah or imam shows up in front of the “practical atheist” with a sword in his hand and tells him to join the jihad forces, you can better believe that that there won’t be any apostasy.

  34. Over the past 40 to 50 years, the Muslims have killed maybe 10 thousand Westerners. Over that time, Westerners have killed probably close to 100 MILLION of their own unborn children through abortion. Let’s get over this idea of Islam being an existential threat to the West. It is not. The West is committing suicide. Islam will inherit Europe by default. And as a matter of natural justice, they deserve it. They do not kill their own unborn children by the millions.

    Islam is an existential threat to the West. But the threat of Islam and the decadence of the West are not unrelated. We face this threat precisely because we are so corrupt. Corruption draws assailants. Also, God permits it because we have not repented and straightened up.

  35. shane says:

    ray, most (purely nominal – most of them are, as I said, practical atheists) Muslim immigrants in France are poor, live in substandard accomodation (often in the most dilapidated suburbs), many can hardly read or write, a majority are without employment, most of their children are malnurished, and they have a poor life expectancy. They don’t stand a chance against the resources of a modern industrialized nation state. When I think of them raising an army, I’m not exactly shaking in my shoes. Sorry but Islam is not taking over Europe any time soon.

  36. shane says:

    Protestants, Freemasons and Jews are more of a threat .

  37. Ellen says:

    Protestants, Freemasons and Jews are more of a threat .

    Oh please!

  38. shane says:

    Evangelical heretics are rapidly turning South America into a Protestant continent. I’d actually much rather you murdered a Catholic than pervert him to the Protestant ‘faith’. Protestants in Mexico vote overwhelmingly for the Institutional Revolutional Party – which is currently trying to introduce an amendment to the Mexican constitution prohibiting Church personnel from even commenting on ‘political issues’.

    [Rabinnic] Jews and Freemasons have always been inimical to the Church and have a long history of plotting against Christian states. The Grand Orient de France was also part of a campaign in France to ban the burka: http://media.paperblog.fr/i/235/2351873/voiles-burqa-autocollant-site-riposte-laique–L-1.jpeg

  39. Andrew says:

    I am not prejudiced but I don’t like Blacks, Portoricans, Protestants, Jews, Arabs, Residents of trailer parks, Country folks, People from big cities, Asians, Japs, and Mexicans. Other than that I am very open minded.

  40. Andrew says:

    Correction: should have been: “I know a bad joke but I will keep it to myself”.

  41. hobbes says:

    the best way to stem the flow of the false prophet’s creed
    is to be a good Catholic.
    make every effort to become a saint and strengthen the Body
    and Christ will care for the rest

  42. Alice says:

    Buuuuuuuuuuuut I thought Monte Mario was the Prime Meridian!

  43. Ed the Roman says:


    Les Algeriens des banlieues will not need an army.

    Islam is taking over Europe by the slow, simple and sure method of having so many more children than the indigenes that it won’t MATTER what the ethnic French, Germans, etc. think in eighty years. Most of the people who live in Western Europe will be Muslim then by default.

  44. mobrien says:

    I just read the various posts — lots of frustration and anger!

    Let me clarify my previous comments — by curbing our individual oil consumption we — each and every one of us — begin to take positive action to become energy independent. The sooner we get off our knees to OPEC the better.

  45. Bornacatholic says:

    America gets more of its oil from Canada and Mexico than it does from the M.E. Thugs.

    If America was wise enough, it would befriend the former soviet union (100s of millions of Christians/ Rich in natural resources) as part of a northern alliance against the barbaric Mahometans.

    Stop Mahometans from moving into the west and deport every single one of them discovered to be plotting against her.

    Sadly, too many have already intellectually surrendered (Shane, for example)and are effectively Dhimmis who have nothing good to say about the west but appear to be anxious to cut the cult of a madman enough slack to imprison all of us.

    The west CAN be revived – due to its creation by the Catholic Church – but the cult of a madman has nothing to offer one who worships the living and true God.

  46. Bornacatholic says:

    I forgot to add that I encourage readers to explore Catholic Prophecy – see Desmond A. Birch’s great, “Trial, Tribulation & Triumph, Before, During and After Antichrist” – and learn that a Catholic King and a fantastic Pope will jointly emerge to crush the Mahometans in Europe.

    Let’s not forget how decadent and decrepit Europe was revived by the mendacious/murdering Moors (Lepanto, Vienna,Tours).

    The self-hatred of the West has been a project of the very people Shane castigates yet he seems unaware he has intellectually subscribed to their ideology and he seems to think that their “gains” can never be ground that can be recovered.

    And in that, he apes the Dhimmis intellectually shackled by the Mahometans.

    For what it is worth, Jews, Protestants (Judaised Christians) and Mahometans are ALL enemies of The Catholic Church.

    So, I agree with you there, Shane

  47. robtbrown says:

    Les Algeriens des banlieues will not need an army.

    Islam is taking over Europe by the slow, simple and sure method of having so many more children than the indigenes that it won’t MATTER what the ethnic French, Germans, etc. think in eighty years. Most of the people who live in Western Europe will be Muslim then by default.
    Comment by Ed the Roman

    You know the old joke. If Lefebvre wins, the liturgical language of France will be Latin. And if he loses, it will be Arabic.

  48. lofstrr says:

    At least part of the problem is that their governments support their civilization which is intrinsically wrapped up in, supported by and flows from their religion.

    Our governments on the other hand, have forsaken our civilization and the religion it was founded on. They are like the spoiled children of a wealthy and noble family. They spend what they are not replacing and they laud themselves for accomplishments they can never repeat. And when it suits them they stab their family’s honor in the back.

    But we do need to realize that while western civilization may be caving in on itself, the Church itself is not. The Church may be shedding a lot of barnacles and may look smaller by the end of the process but Church is eternal.

    All our society needs to rally itself is to wake up to the fact that “we aint so bad.” We need to stop listening to our own false modern historians and really grab a hold of all the good God has done in this world though His Church and the Christian civilization that grew up around it. We are the civilization of life and love. We are the civilization of reason. We are the civilzation that ended slavery. We are the civilization that sees the dignity of every human being.

    We need to stop apologizing for being who we are because he has made us His own and He needs no justification.

  49. Brian2 says:

    A few years ago I read a paper by an economist (I think, but of the pop/joiurnalist variety, not the academic kind) who argued that building really tall structures usually came right before the collapse of an economy. In short, the project of building the ‘biggest whatever in the world” is symptomatic of a strange and destructive overconfidence combined with a inferiority complex. This combination leads to bad decisions which ultimately undermine the economy of the region.

    There is a similar analysis of terrorism. It is not a sign of strenght, but of weakness. After all, if the terrorist had the strength, he could attack military targets or meet armies in the field, thereby hoping to score a decisive victory. But he lacks the ability to do that, so he must instead blow up markets and bazaars. Much like the really big buildings, it indicates an awareness of inferiority combined with overconfidence (that somehow blowing up a market, or even a plane, will defeat the West).

    So I say, let them build the biggest building they can. Shoot for the (crescent) moon guys!

  50. Duncan Cromb says:

    Did anyone else get Fr. Z’s reference in the title to the opening lines of TS Eliot’s ‘Burnt Norton’, the first of his Four Quartets? What a great work.
    By the way, I agree that none of the influential nations will or should take this Mecca Time seriously, though some Arab nations may harbour their delusions.

    p.s. Thanks Fr Z for an informative, faithful blog. From a long time lurker, first time commenter.

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