Who are these ‘c’atholic liberals? Young Catholics don’t know and don’t care.

I recently posted about Sr. Joan Chittister and the Council of Elders. HERE.

Judging from my email feedback about that post, I realize that many of my visitors have never heard of the Council of Elders.  Many would never have heard of Sr. Joan Chittister without reading about her here.

I have recently written about Richard McBrien, Charles Curran, Bernard Häring….


As it turns out, younger people, younger committed Catholics, simply don’t know who these liberals are.

I guess there is a generation gap on Fr. Z’s Blog.

Consider this.  When Sr. Joan and the civil-rights era, war-protesting era “Council of Elders” went to help out the Occupiers near Wall Street, the Occupiers had no idea who they were.

Here is the site of the Fellowship of Reconciliation (Remember them? No?) which conveys their lament:

These leaders and all of the Elders constitute the best of the best in respect to shaping progressive social thought and redemptive nonviolent action.

But there were two problems:

  1. Large numbers of Occupiers “don’t know much about history” and therefore had no idea who was in their midst, and…
  2. They found it possible to treat the Elders’ declaration and direct involvement as not worthy of their notice.

Nobody under the age of 40 knows who these people are.

Furthermore, they don’t care about who these people ever were.

I was talking with a priest friend today about the fact that virtually all the American seminarians we know were not educated by women religious.  Neither is the National Catholic Reporter on their radar screens.  The NCR was ubiquitous back in the day… lo those many years ago.  They and their ilk had a strangle-hold. Now-aging-liberals propped it up in parishes and seminaries and religious houses, squelching other voices such as The Wanderer and alternative Catholic news sources and opinions.  In those days only one interpretation of Vatican II was licit, nay rather, was all holy!  Dissident from their dissent was forbidden, dangerous to a seminarian’s vocation or a priest’s career.

The Biological Solution is taking care of that.  It is taking care of The Wanderer too, I’m afraid, because they haven’t adapted their print media to the needs of a new digital age and skyrocketing printing and mailing costs.  But that is another kettle of chowder.

It is sometimes hard for me to remember that younger people, I mean younger committed Catholics, certainly seminarians, younger priests and now a rapidly growing number of bishops, don’t give a damn about anything the Fishwrap says.  They don’t share the narrow vision of a still widespread but rapidly weakening discontinuity and rupture.

Young people have nothing invested in that agenda.  The few that do are exceptions to the rule.

Seminarians I know, if they see the NCR, just shake their head, marveling.  Perhaps they smile a little.

The indifference this new generation of priests has concerning the liberal catholic agenda will inevitably have a huge knock-on effect in the parishes they will lead and the classrooms they will teach in.

Meanwhile, it is sometimes hard for me to remember that I, too, am in certain ways now on the other side of the generational gap.

Don’t get me wrong.  I will still write about the Fishwrap with all good cheer!  They don’t get to have a free ride.  And, face it, posts about their quirky ideas and dissident hijinx practically write themselves.

But in the future I had better keep in mind that I am still suffering from the post-traumatic stress disorder of those times. I still remember that the aging-liberals were once relevant.  Younger, committed Catholics don’t have those memories.

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
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  1. Sid Cundiff in NC says:

    The historian John Lukacs in a speech from 2005: “For the first time in history — and for an historian there are few first times in history — the old are the liberals and the young are the conservatives.”

  2. Scott W. says:

    Dr. Ed Peters once reminded those of us appalled by the state of liturgy today actually should be grateful because he recalls the days of felt and burlap banners. :)

  3. Mundabor says:

    I am shocked now…

    Up to this very moment I thought the likes of Sr. Joan Chittister have always been isolated fringe figures, only mentioned in Catholics blogs to say how senseless they are and in strange magazines like the “Fishwrap” to prove someone thinks like them.

    Was there ever a time when these people had a vast audience? Like, say, Bob Dylan or Joan Baez?

    I’m all astonishment.

    They must have smoked really strong stuff in the Sixties and Seventies…


  4. 3 Cheers for Fr. Z! Yes Fr. what rings is true. The only reason I know any of this is because of your blog, others (some of whom are piss-potters), and the Vorisian Viper. Otherwise, I wouldn’t give $0.02 CDN about any of this liberal floosies. Sadly though, that generation still reigns over pastor-ship of parishes and hire heretical or near-heretical people in positions like youth ministries and key areas, and only those of like-mindedness usually occupy the catechesis positions. There are exceptions fighting it out, but yes, like you say, it will take time for the biological effect to win.

  5. M. K. says:

    I was talking with a priest friend today about the fact that virtually all the American seminarians we know were not educated by women religious.

    Case in point: I don’t think I had ever even met a Catholic nun until I entered the seminary. So when Fr. McBrien says “few North American Catholics would be Catholics today if it were not for the nuns,” he’s not speaking for me or most people in my generation.

  6. Marie Veronica says:

    It is good to know that fewer people have memories of singing “The Jesse Tree Song” by felt banners on the alter. It made me tremendously sad to have to do this as a 9 year old. I remember my father squirming and trying not to appear too afflicted. (he grew up with the TLM in a Polish parish in the 1940s).

    This morning I watched my own (almost) 9 year old daughter sing O Salutaris Hostia. The new school choir director (in his 50s) is wonderful. A blessing. She also likes to wear the chapel veil when she sings at the Novus Ordo. I wear mine at the school mass since she has asked to wear hers. Sure, there are only three of with veils, but we are 41 and younger. Quite a reversal, Praise God.

    My sister and I both believe our generation may have some form of PTSD from the endless rounds of “If I had a Hammer,” not to mention the sentimental, squishy and vacuous religion texts, and other terrible distortions we picked up on during those years in the 1970s and 1980s.

    Many good signs in the writing that is being turned out by younger Catholics on websites across the Internet. Signs of hope.

  7. fvhale says:

    I call it the “chronological solution.” Time passes. The ephemeral “essentials” of each era go out like a tide, and truth persists.
    I am just old enough to have spent a couple hours with Sr. Joan in my car, driving her between airport and conference. But I am young enough that I do not have any of her books, and never much cared for McBrien, hardly knew of Curran.
    On the other hand, I have almost every book available from Pope Benedict XVI, a shelf of the collected writing of St. Bonaventure, the four volume sermons of St. Anthony of Padua, several shelves of liturgical books in Latin, Italian and English, several shelves of Latin texts, including many of the writings of Bl. Pope John Paul II (the blue cover paperback editions by LEV).
    In other media, I love Fr. Robert Barron, we have almost every DVD produced by the RAI-Ignatius cooperation (and lend them to friends!), I have a browser bookmark for news.va (and neither NC Reporter or Register appeal to me).
    In many ways, the old “Catholic liberals” are the seniors who I treat with love and politeness, but do not look to for guidance or inspiration. Often they are grumpy and grim. Rather, I am inspired by may young seminarians and religious filled with joy, young Catholic families in love with our Lord and his Church.

  8. MargaretC says:

    I think this is what happens to most old revolutionaries. Becoming irrelevant may actually be more painful than having someone track you down and hit you in the head with an ice ax, a la Trotsky.

    By the way, I’m in charge of the library in a small Catholic women’s college. Most of the stuff written by the ’60s-’80s era LibCats just doesn’t circulate any more. I’m doing some discreet weeding and updating, as the budget allows.

  9. Athelstan says:

    The historian John Lukacs in a speech from 2005: “For the first time in history — and for an historian there are few first times in history — the old are the liberals and the young are the conservatives.”

    In wider American society I’m not sure that’s true any longer. I’m not just talking of the election results, but what surveys show about under-30’s views on social issues, especially gay marriage. If Gen X had taken a reactionary turn to the right, the Millennials seem to have shifted to the left – although this is obviously more pronounced among specific chorts, i.e., minorities, unmarrieds, college graduates, etc., than others.

    In the Church, however, it is a different story. Here, the young seem to be moving in the opposite direction from society at large. In short, if you’re young and actually interested in the faith (especially if you have chosen or are thinking of choosing a religious vocation), you’re likely to be traditionally orthodox in some real way. If you’re a progressive, the Church just doesn’t hold interest for you, not for that matter, religion in general. Progressive Christianity is, in this respect, a dead end project. What it has produced is loads of agnostics and atheists.

  10. Cricket says:

    Might be interesting to have a discussion about HOW female religious like Sr. Joan Chittister & her sisters evolved from providing charitable (& much needed) service to Catholic schools and hospitals, to the modern day “Council of Elders.”

  11. The Masked Chicken says:

    Someone (not me!), this time, forgot to turn off the italics.

    The problem, to be blunt about it, is not that youngsters don’t know these historical figures, but that most youngsters don’t know or care about history, period. Study after study shows that modern people under 30 have very little insight into history. This situation usually occurs near a technology transition point.

    I maintain that young Catholic people HAVE to know about these people in the same way they have to know about the Arian heresy. These people, today, are Modernism, writ large. Unlike specific heresies of the past, Modernism is something that can’t be stamped out just once. It will continue to rear its ugly head. Knowledge and vigilance are the only protection.

    The Chicken

  12. jaykay says:

    Just slipped to the “Fellowship of Reconciliation” home page from the link Fr. Z provided above. It features their “anti-drones” campaign.

    Which features… giant puppets!!

    You knew they had to be in there somewhere alright, but upfront on the home page?

    Awesome (man).

  13. Chris Garton-Zavesky says:


    I am hopeful, for I see many signs of good cheer, but I find that there is something disquieting in anecdotal data: “they” is now an accepted singular pronoun; “altEr” girls?; the same people who pushed Proposition 8 over the top in California ALSO sent Mr. Obama to the White House (quite probably twice). A great many of the young people have a yearning for the truth, but don’t know where to go for it, because some of them have been taught that things have always been as they are now — and still others cling to the English of what a friend of mine calls the Vulgar Mass. They are sick of the nonsense, but they don’t know where it doesn’t exist.

    That said, I should note that we who are of an age to have fought in the trenches need to NOT carry our battle scars around like badges, but instead need to present the beauty of the unadulterated faith to a new generation. We can’t deny the battles, but in an apparent lull in the fighting, we need to not be pugnacious.

  14. William says:

    “The indifference this new generation of priests has concerning the liberal catholic agenda will inevitably have a huge knock-on effect in the parishes they will lead and the classrooms they will teach in.”

    They will also contend with a great deal of mean-spirited resistance. The going could get might rough!

  15. avecrux says:

    I am part of a kind of “bridge” generation, I think.

    I grew up in a really awful parish (how awful? remember the Halloween Mass with the “Barney” blessing? Yes, that Priest was my associate Pastor) but I found out, unlike my other siblings, that there could be more to life – really because of some strategically placed Norbertine Fathers of St. Michael’s Abbey who were teaching at my high school.

    They were a sharp contrast to the other theology faculty (one teaching liberation theology… the other praying in the name of the “Creator, Redeemer and Sanctifier” and re-writing the “Our Father” in non-sexist language… those two had MA’s from Notre Dame. Then there was the other one telling us all the forms of birth control she had used in the name of “conscience”).

    The Norbertines had right doctrine AND had the joy that drew me to a deeper knowledge of and love for my faith. When you think “oh… if I could only touch ONE soul with the teaching… preaching… catechesis… I do” – well, I WAS that one soul. They spurred me on to attend Thomas Aquinas College the the *somewhat* early days, where I met my husband- and the rest is history.

    I teach theology at a high school now – and I stay hopeful – knowing there could be “one soul” in the room who is listening – having been there myself.

    I had to attend an “in-service” not so long ago… most of it was good, but the Scripture component was taught by a woman several decades older than me who studied Scripture at Notre Dame – in the not so good ol’ days. She was telling us all the reasons the “myths” in Scripture were “myths” (you know… bushes can’t burn and not be consumed… the burning bush is a SYMBOL of something that makes us stop and take notice!). With all the great Biblical exegesis out there today – most especially from our Holy Father, Pope Benedict – who tells us exactly what he thinks of an overly historical-critical approach – her presentation was so… 70s. It really was. It was like having a technology in-service on the use of VCRs.

  16. Ralph says:


    you wrote “I was talking with a priest friend today about the fact that virtually all the American seminarians we know were not educated by women religious.”

    I find that shocking. In our diocese the “gate keeper” to vocations is a pant suit sister.

    It’s encouraging to know it must be better elsewhere. There is hope :)

  17. Marie Veronica says:

    @Althelstan: That’s a great point. I wonder about this when reaching out to friends and family who have fallen away (GenXers). I think the generational distinctions are becoming less important. My sense is that any qualms GenXers may have had about gay marriage are dissipating with their memories of the Reagan years, “latch-key” childhoods and divorced or “flaked-out” parents, and now for some their own divorces. The surge of progressive Millennials and GenYers has taken up the gay marriage cause with zeal. One major problem is many generations of people have participated in the sexual revolution to some extent and families and society are greatly weakened by it. The sins run through the generations.

    There is, at the same time, a surge of interest in the traditional Catholic faith among the Millennials and GenY because for them it is all really new. The number of young faces in traditionally-oriented religious orders is cause for celebration. More signs of hope.

    Those who seek the Truth and love the Faith- whatever the generation- will find it, by the grace of God. Those who have succumbed to creeping agnosticism, atheism, progressive-modernist junk ultimately identify with politics first (thus the “c”atholic Democrat). It actually almost physically pains me to talk to some of these people having lived through the period. I am myself a revert. Many of my contemporaries left the Faith. There was such a collapse in morals that young people witnessed in Church and family in those dark decades. Weak catechism, “forming your own conscience on birth control,” the glorification of premarital sex in movies, liturgical novelties and abuses galore, lots of families going through divorces, promiscuity, the rise of cable TV (MTV in particular) and the materialist onslaught and escapist pastimes of the 1980s and 1990s.

    I have pointed out to some friends that our experience as kids is no excuse for ignoring God’s call. There is a WEALTH of information on the Catholic faith available on the Internet.I had to get past the pride, anger, sloth, despair and remember to seek him as a child with heart and mind. Indeed put myself back in the second grade (taught by an older and very devout nun) reading about the children at Fatima. In part it was the peace I remembered in praying the rosary as a child that led me back to confession, to prayer, to God. In these past 14 years I have found so many books, resources, lectures to learn what was never taught. The Pope is quite right. This is a new missionary age.

  18. Legisperitus says:

    “They found it possible to treat the Elders’ declaration and direct involvement as not worthy of their notice.”

    I love the open-mouthed disbelief implicit in the expression “They found it possible.”

  19. Jim says:

    Thank you Father Z :-).
    This is very refreshing. Refreshing to know that there are others like me.
    I am 30.

    I wouldn’t have heard about Fishwrap or LCWR or Sr Joan or Sr Simone Campbell if not for this fine blog. I wouldn’t have heard of Fr McBrian if it were not for Michael Voris and ChurchMilitant.tv. I do not trust any book which calls itself Catholic unless it is atleast a 100 years old or written by a saint, even if the book has an imprimatur. Why waste the short time we have been given, on rubbish, when there is so much that is good and holy and Catholic that I cannot possibly learn in this short life.

    Before any liberal jumps at me asking “How can you brush away someone’s work as rubbish? Thats so judgemental.” I reply “Because I can and I care for my soul and the time given is short.”

    I pray for their conversion everyday, but that is all.

  20. Marty says:

    ” Younger, committed Catholics don’t have those memories.” — Fr. Z.

    The words of Gamaliel, Chief Rabbi of Judea (Acts 5: 35-39), speak to us.

    “Fellow Israelites, be careful what you are about to do to these men. Some time ago, Theudas appeared, claiming to be someone important, and about four hundred men joined him, but he was killed, and all those who were loyal to him were disbanded and came to nothing. After him came Judas the Galilean at the time of the census. He also drew people after him, but he too perished and all who were loyal to him were scattered. So now I tell you, have nothing to do with these men, and let them go. For if this endeavor or this activity is of human origin, it will destroy itself. But if it comes from God, you will not be able to destroy them; you may even find yourselves fighting against God.”

  21. dominic1955 says:

    I am under 30 and I know very well the people who were the “shining lights” of the Vatican II era theological/pastoral/liturgical cadres and have read some of their works. I have a number of their books in my collection. Not because I think they gave us anything really worth a hoot, but because one should know their enemy. I think these people are very relevant-as examples of the rot and decline of the Catholic Church in the later 20th century.

    It is true, unfortunately many of my generation are blithering idiots when it comes to history. That is why I’m not suprised most of them voted for our lord and savior (sic!), the Wun, Glorious Leader Barack Hussein Obama. They might think he cares and is just peachy but when I see all the nonsense this regime has been involved in, I hear the faint stamping of jackboots and some bars of the Horst-Wessel-Lied and the Internationale. Those who are ignorant of history are bound to repeat it.

  22. Scott W. says:

    “The Jesse Tree Song”

    Ok, I just had to know what this was, so I looked it up on YouTube. I got about 15 seconds into it before having to shut it off and wash my ears out. Wow, you can’t unhear that!

    But I’ll take it as a good sign that I’ve never encountered it in a church setting.

  23. Joseph-Mary says:

    I am also of the ‘bridge’ generation. I succumbed for a brief time to the liberal agenda–alas, it led to mortal sin for me. But Our Lady rescued me back in the 90s and I am one of those with a great desire for the TLM and all my heritage in the Catholic faith. We have the TLM once a month, in the middle of a Monday morning on a young priest’s day off. Not the most opportune time.

    Here I am in middle age and I do not know chant or the beautiful music of the Church and that saddens me a bit. We are still ‘gathering us in’. And the hard hitting homilies are very few and far in between and our guest priests still say things like “we are no longer just about the saving of souls”. But I do think things are slowly improving and I am in one of the better dioceses.

    But in so many places when I travel, I see they are totally stuck in the 80s. The fallout of souls is enormous.

  24. The Masked Chicken says:

    “But in so many places when I travel, I see they are totally stuck in the 80s.”

    Should be, the 60s. Nothing of importance happened in the 80s. :)

    The Chicken

  25. Facta Non Verba says:

    I am over 40 (but under 50), and I don’t know who these people are.

  26. Tim Ferguson says:

    get out your guitars and autoharps:

    Where have all the Sisters gone?
    Long time passing
    Where have all the Sisters gone?
    Long time ago
    Where have all the Sisters gone?
    All dissenters, ‘cept for some.
    When will they ever learn?
    When will they ever learn?

    Where have all dissenters gone?
    Long time passing
    Where have all dissenters gone?
    Long time ago
    Where have all dissenters gone?
    Call to Action conventions.
    When will they ever learn?
    When will they ever learn?

    Where has all the action gone?
    Long time passing
    Where has all the action gone?
    Long time ago
    Where has all the action gone?
    Lifeless ‘cause of contraception
    When will they ever learn?
    When will they ever learn?

    Where have contraceptors gone?
    Long time passing
    Where have contraceptors gone?
    Long time ago
    Where have contraceptors gone?
    Hopeless rest homes, or passed on.
    When will they ever learn?
    When will they ever learn?

    Where then has our hope all gone?
    Long time passing
    Where then has our hope all gone?
    Long time ago
    Where has then our hope all gone?
    Young nuns who put habits on.
    When will we ever learn?
    When will we ever learn?

  27. Magistra Bona says:

    Responsa for M.K.: There is a demographic-numbers aspect to this topic that I find interesting and challenging. Few current seminarians educated by nuns. Got that. Also got that fewer American Catholics practice their Faith…faithfully. There is an inverse relationship between the attrition of wmen religous, either through departure or the dumbing down of the Faith, and the rise of Catholic indifference. For the generation of the so-called ‘Golden Age’ of the Church (40’s and 50’s), their experience was different. Most of them WERE educated by nuns. There were never tons of men or fathers in Catholic schools prior to the 60’s. It’s the nuns who made and kept Catholics Catholic outside of the liturgy because they are the ones who forged ahead and created the Catholic schools of our country. Those ladies are all gone or few and far between today. What makes anyone think that the crises in the American Catholic Church will ever be resolved without the women of this Church, religous or lay? And that’s just gender! What about age? Fewer young people, in general, in the population. Got that. Oldsters numbers are growing as a proportion of the population. Hmmm. What escapes the awareness of many is the fact that the irrelevant liberals just aren’t dead yet. And, if Church teaching is to be obeyed, they cannot be killed off. (Euthanasia = bad.) So, the irritating presence of people Fr. Z. doesn’t like will be an ongoing reality. And, who wants to be known and respected by Occupistas? Our job in this life is to be relevant to Christ. Period.

  28. Gregorius says:

    While it is indeed true that I being a young man would never have heard of these dissenters if not for this wonderful blog, the effects of their destruction of the faith are far-reaching. It is my experience that while current seminarians and young priests are more and more flocking to traditional ways (that is, those who entered/were ordained after Summorum Pontificum!), most of my contemporaries have also never heard of the traditionalism movement and don’t understand why it is important to know about it in order to properly understand the faith, even if they aren’t desiring to attend any TLM. They do indeed desire an authentic, orthodox Catholicism, but most still think the way to go about it is the same old, happy-clappy praise and worship stuff promoted by the previous generation currently in charge of their formation.

  29. jilly4ski says:

    I am 26, but grew up in a charismatic parish (which was better then the parish my parents left). So I still remember felt banners and altar decorations, coloring Jesus pictures in religious education, liturgical dancers (aka Jesus’ color guard) etc. They still have their rock band playing all the music (parish was founded in 81 and never had an organ) but I have noticed a subtle shift to playing some hymns (like Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence) along with their more contemporary music when we go back and visit. I learned about Sr. Chittister in college, we read an excerpt of one of her Christology books. Even then, I had read enough to know something was wrong. (I had been reading a few of my dad’s (who has a hobby in studying theology) books, including excerpts of the diache). I also remember hearing about Hans Kung, but don’t remember if we actually read anything by him. The others I have not heard of, except for this blog (and others like it). I also had never met a Sister or Nun prior to going to college, and unfortunately those Sisters did little to change the perception of theology and practice going horribly wrong. But yes, I know many of my contemporaries who rejected that kind of thinking and theology for a more orthodox outlook, but I know a few that have been duped, but generally those who have been duped then turn around and cease to believe at all and become atheists, agnostics, or those who believe that being Catholic is something that gets passed down by birth rather than practice.

  30. JuliaSaysPax says:

    As an 18 year old Catholic, I can attest that this post is both true and not true.
    Most of the young Catholics I know do not know about these old “liberals” unless they read about them on sites like these or encounter them at mass. However, that doesn’t mean that most young people are “tradition friendly”. Most young Catholics I know are beginning to realize that the real Catholic mass is reverent, that Vatican II has been misconstrued, and that, if we’re being honest with ourselves, the Church needs to reform some of the crazy reforms. That’s what Fr. Z pointed out, and it’s a good thing. Many of us are embracing Latin, chant, the EF, ect. Also a great thing. However, many young people, who might have become the new generation of NCR readers, are NOT embracing a return to tradition. Rather, they’re becoming lukewarm or leaving altogether. So, it’s a good thing in that the majority, who remain Catholic, are AUTHENTICALLY Catholic. However, there are still many that are basically secular or “cultural” “catholics”. So, yes, many young people are reviving the Church to higher levels of reverence, but many others still assert that nearly anyone can get to heaven, that women should be ordained (had a looooooong discussion at a Catholic retreat last month), that birth control and even abortion are okay, that gay “marriage” should be legalized, and that efforts at evangelism are “culturally insensitive”.
    The number might be decreasing, and the faithful Catholic youth might be becoming more and more vocal, but the dissident element remains. Remember, we were Catechized by the likes of Sr. Joan. Though many of us, through the internet and such, are beginning to teach ourselves what we missed out on learning as children, the problem won’t really be solved until the children being properly Catechized grow up.

  31. MisterH says:

    Vibant, faithful catholic colleges can play an important role in properly forming these young people.

    Thus, “The Newman Guide to Choosing a Catholic College,” is a must read for all Catholic parents.

    The Guide provides extensive information to help parents and students choose a Catholic college that has a strong fidelity to the Faith.

    Unfortunately, given the confused state of Catholic education today, only 22 colleges made this year’s Guide.

    Information about the Guide can be found here:

  32. Mrs. Bear says:

    One of the concerns I have is that the Sunday missal that is sold in Many, Many parishes (here in Canada) is “Living with Christ” from the publisher Novalis.
    If you order your own weekday missal from this publisher they will send you their little catalogue of books and such.
    This publisher may sell some great books but in the middle of some good books is the like of Sr. Joan’s books or Gregory Baum etc..
    Some people have no clue until they order it. Younger people may be more perceptive to the error of these writers but older people figure that the publisher is selling the mass missal so all is good.
    Young people still need to be wary of what is out there and that is why if we have the opportunity to have their ear – advise them of publishers, religious orders, retreat centres, diocesan offices, seminaries to stay clear away from. They may not have heard of Sr. Joan and the like but their followers are leaders in diocese – even with good bishops – and leading some to that moral relativism without these people knowing it.
    This missal also includes a mini-homily before each Sunday’s readings usually from a left of centre lay person or “professional” Catholic for the most part.

  33. benedetta says:

    I first encountered loony leftists in secular academia; I always thought it pretty bizarre that there was this loose knit collection of folks who wanted the Church to imitate the pro culture of death and marxist strands found in American academia. I am happy for their sakes and mine that their sad collection of an agenda has failed.

  34. Sandmama says:

    As a child of the ’70’s who was made to hop like a kangaroo down the aisle during my 1st communion; I was uneasy but unsure of why this was both embarrassing and creepy, I can confidently tell you that the abandonment of Catholic Catechism (substance & methods) is what did it to the Sr. Joan crowd.
    We had absolutely no idea what the sacraments we received meant. We had awful and confusing teachers whose methods of communication (circles, feeling sharing, guided meditation etc.) left us wholly without reference points to the Church or even our own experience. We went to Mass where ADULTS! played bad music on the guitar and decorated everything they could get their hands on with felt. We saw their good works underscored by their disdain for the poor. We saw the bitterness in their embrace of abortion and contraception. And none of it made any sense at all.
    I was aware of, and had attended, the TLM occasionally with my mother as a young adult in the early 90’s. The first time I ever really listened and used the Latin/ English missal (I think published by Una Voce) all that muck was quite literally swept away in the beauty and the glory of the Sacrifice. I was somewhat despondent for a while, realizing what had been stolen from us by the ‘reform’.
    But the truth was that the reform was so lax in any actual education of the faithful that the TLM, the Baltimore Catechism, then some reading of the Church Fathers and a little digging etc. rapidly eliminated what random bits might have been leftover from this early non-formation. They will go to the dustbin of history because they rejected the Truth and the light of the Catholic Church but they will also go there because they were too silly to teach anyone anything…
    All we can do now is pray for them.

  35. stefangillies says:

    I was briefly involved with the Fellowship of Reconciliation when I visited a young man in military prison, you may find my diary on their site interesting (It’s the third article down from top)
    It has been a huge revelation to me realising the reality of liberation theology first through Our Holy Father and then completing the understanding of the modernist package by recently reading St Pius X’s ‘Catachism on Modernism’.
    I read with interest about the Norbertines in an above post because it is that very order that has recently secured a Sunday morning Latin Mass for us in Chelmsford, England. It was this same Order that was the driving force of the first Mass since the Reformation at a local Abbey…

    Stefan Gillies

  36. Marie Veronica says:

    I agree Sandmama. And thank you for the reminder to pray for them. I think also that many well-intentioned people were swept into the silliness. I recall one very funny incident. Our music teacher (a very nice woman) had us singing, “Let it Be” in choir practice in the 6th grade. The 7th grade teacher – a nun- ran into the church and yelled, “Stop! That song is about Marijuana not Mary!”

    The poor woman had no idea. “Hey Jude” was also then stricken from our repertoire.

  37. The Masked Chicken says:

    “The number might be decreasing, and the faithful Catholic youth might be becoming more and more vocal, but the dissident element remains. ”

    Actually, how does one test that proposition? I would guess that the majority of people who faithfully attend Mass on Sundays have no idea why a woman priest is an oxymoron. Youth are always more vocal. What we need to await, and I will not be here to see it, is how they believe after they have been seasoned with age and experience.

    The Chicken

  38. Pingback: Marijuana, Brutalism, Catholicism « Mundabor's Blog

  39. Hidden One says:

    Pray for us young Catholics; we need it.

  40. JuliaSaysPax says:

    I was recently shown a (horrifying) video of a “mass” celebrated by “Roman Catholic Womenpriests”(an organization that denies hell, calls God “Mother and Father”, and other things in addition to the concept of women priests, as well as “rejecting” the fact that they are excommunicated). I was only comforted when someone told me to take notice of the age of everyone in the video. I was instantly reminded of this post.

  41. Cathy says:

    It seems that their increasing irrelevance to the youth is that the causes they championed have taken a life of their own without them and are stream-lined through the government, including education, health care, welfare, immigration, abortion, contraception and even the legalization of marijuana. The one cause that the government can’t seem to stream-line is wymyn’s ordination. That being said, once you have educated the populace into believing the Church is a misogynistic organization filled with “haters” and have compelled their right to conscience to take themselves out of the Church, what does it matter, in terms of what they perceive as progress, if anyone, men or wymyn are ordained? Once people believe they can, according to their conscience, skip mass on Sunday’s and Holy Days of obligation because God understands that you worship him on the golf course just as well, haven’t you basically eliminated the audience you dreamily hoped to preside over? Poor progressive liberals, they have essentially destroyed through envy the audience they hoped to attain, and I don’t think, at their age, they are fit to be caddies.

  42. catholicmidwest says:

    Of course the Occupiers had no idea who they were! Catholics, especially progressive Catholics, crack me up. Did you know that 75 of this country is non-Catholic? Besides the 15% or so that have been baptized and never show up at church, I mean. And that a good half of those have NEVER been inside the doors of a Catholic Church! EVER! I know that’s inconceivable to most Catholics but it’s true. What the Church teaches is true, and the world *should* revolve around it, but it doesn’t, as a matter of fact. What does that mean? Think hard. And don’t shoot the messenger. Somebody has to say it and the sooner the better.

  43. Gail F says:

    I’m 48. I was away from the Church from about age 21 to 29 (it seems like longer than that). I have no idea who most of the dissidents you write about are, and I have never seen an actual copy of the NCR anywhere. Of course I know Hans Kung (read one of his books) and I do know who Sr. Joan is, but I never heard of the “Elders” until this post.
    The 1960s destroyed a great many things, the Catholic Church was just part of the carnage. I really do think we need to see that what happened in the Church is the same is what happened nearly everywhere. It can’t be blamed on any one thing, and it should not be blamed (IMHO) primarily on anything that happened within the Church — what happened within the Church was very much influenced by what happened everywhere. I trust that the Church will survive, it always does. But a great many people were and are harmed. However, I think a great many people were harmed in many, if not most, other time periods as well. The times we live in shape us all, and a lot of that shaping is not for the best! The past was not all rosy, in fact it was RARELY rosy. Following Christ is always hard — it always means being countercultural.

  44. Hidden One says:

    However irrelevant the NCR may be, it’s gotten almost a thousand comments on its new (yesterday) pro-women’s ordination and Ray Bourgeois editorial (http://ncronline.org/news/people/editorial-ordination-women-would-correct-injustice) – both those in support of the NCR and those not. At the same time, they also published a brief anti-Bishop Finn piece by Michael Sean Winters… it is difficult to see that as coincidental, all things considered.

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