Reports of Circuli Minores now available on Vatican website

The reports of the Circuli Minores are available on the Vatican website.  HERE

Card. Burke’s would be in Anglicus A.  Sample:

For example, where the Relatio appeared to be suggesting that sex outside of marriage may be permissible, or that cohabitation may be permissible, we have attempted to show why such lifestyles do not lead to human fulfillment. At the same time, we want to acknowledge that there are seeds of truth and goodness found in the persons involved, and through dedicated pastoral care these can be appreciated and developed. We believe that if we imply that certain life-styles are acceptable, then concerned and worried parents could very easily say “Why are we trying so hard to encourage our sons and daughters to live the Gospel and embrace Church teaching?”

And…

We had serious questions about the presentation of the principle of GRADUALITY. We wished to show in our amendments that we are not speaking of the GRADUALITY of DOCTRINE of faith and morals, but rather the gradual moral growth of the individual in his or her actions.

I suggest that you scan them yourselves.  Don’t be at the mercy of Crux and Fishwrap: “What the Synod meant to say, is….”

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35 Responses to Reports of Circuli Minores now available on Vatican website

  1. LarryW2LJ says:

    Wow! Reading the comments that were in English, I can see why the Bishops were upset. It almost seems like the authors of the Relatio and the Bishops were at two separate events.

  2. McCall1981 says:

    Fr. Z, would you be willing to give us your opinion of where the various groups stand in regards to Kasper’s communion proposal?
    To me it looks like A was against it, B suggested looking at following it and at not following it, and C didn’t specifically say.

  3. Cantor says:

    Fr. Z’s comment that the “miraculous” overnight translation of the original document lends credence to those who suspect that it had been written before the meetings. That argument gains a LOT of traction if you actually read these small group reports on the Vatican website. For example:

    “Briefly Let me present some of the blackberries significant Conclusions of the group.”

    “On the subject of polygamy the group tried to blackberries Clearly define the specific pastoral challenges in different parts of the world.”

    “…the relationship between man and woman is deepened and even blackberries Explained fully and as mirroring the relationship between Christ and his Body, the Church.”

    And best of all…

    “It is longer available in self-giving That we become human blackberries and more Christ-like.”

  4. Gregg the Obscure says:

    Circle A gets the best marks from me, but will likely face fire from the leftists for using the word “judge”. Instead of “See, Judge, Act” and “Listen, Judge, Act”, they could have blunted that objection by using the more common “Orient, Observe, Decide, Act”.

    Circle B had the marks of a document produced by a committee: superficiality, discontinuity and blandness.

    Circle C produced one of the strangest things I’ve seen in a while: “We rightly wish to welcome, without judgement or condemnation, those who, for some reason, are not yet able to express life-long commitment in a marriage between a man and a woman.” Is that meant to refer to young children, habitual fornicators, sexual deviants, prison inmates, celibates? It could describe any of them, but the “reason” for each group couldn’t be more different!

    My grasp of the other languages is rather limited. I saw what looked to be some good and some bad in French Circle B and not much content at all in Spanish Circle B. Hope I was overly pessimistic on those.

  5. CharlesG says:

    I hope they’re adding something about sin, the universal call to holiness that Vatican II stressed, and the call to chastity, so important for Christian moral life. Based on the relatio, it would seem that all of those are out the window.

  6. Dan says:

    My own rough translations and Google Translate suggested to me that no one was really thrilled by the RPD.

  7. anamaria says:

    I loved this comment:

    Hemos querido concluir esta segunda parte diciendo que “sabiendo que la mayor misericordia es decir la verdad con amor (San Agustín), vamos más allá de la compasión. El amor misericordioso así como atrae y une, también transforma y enaltece e invita a la conversión. Ver (Jn 8,1-11).

    Knowing that mercy is saying the truth with love (St. Agustin), we should surpass compassion. Merciful love as much as it attracts and unify, also transforms, uplifts and invites to conversion.

    Pless pardon my translation…

  8. Johannes de Silentio says:

    It appears that the liberals, following Cardinal Kasper, will now have to bash the African bishops led by Cardinal Napier, as their criticisms of the Relatio are much sharper even than those of Cardinal Burke’s group.

  9. John V says:

    It will be interesting to see what becomes of the rumored “demotion” of Cardinal Burke from being Prefect of the Apostolic Signatura to the Patron of the Knights of Malta, seemingly a fait accompli just prior to the Synod. Might the Pope’s advisers back off from what would surely now be characterized as retaliation against or punishment of the Cardinal for his outspokenness? Or might they double down and try to have him moved to an even less significant position (if there is such)?

    [Good question.]

  10. rhhenry says:

    I was very encouraged that the English groups (especially group B) all mentioned painting a positive picture of marriage and encouraging faithful Catholics to be even more faithful and to support us in our vocation. Good stuff.

    It seems as though a majority of bishops would recommend rejecting the Relatio if it is not severely modified. I’m still worried, however, about a Humanae Vitae moment. You know, the one where the Pope goes against the recommendation of his advisors when preparing his own pronouncement . . .

  11. McCall1981 says:

    Well, from a quick google translate, it looks like the groups generally leaned against Kasper’s proposal.

  12. Suburbanbanshee says:

    I agree that the English groups were all pretty good, although some of them had that mushy committee “I don’t know what I’m writing” thing.

    For example, from Anglicus D: “We rightly wish to welcome, without judgement or condemnation, those who, for some reason, are not yet able to express life-long commitment in a marriage between a man and a woman.”

    Babies, people with no human language capabilities, and single people who haven’t met anybody they want to date are also allowed in the Church. Woohoo! News!

  13. Suburbanbanshee says:

    Gregg the Obscure: Re: OODA, I don’t think the Vatican is ready for the Gospel according to Colonel Boyd. Although that would be awesome. I would opine that Jesus was in the habit of getting inside people’s OODA loop with His comments to them, but of course that’s easier when you’re omniscient.

    Consulting Google, I find that “See, Judge, Act” was something thought up by Cardinal Cardijn for his Young Christian Workers organization. It was apparently used in “Mater et Magistra” by Pope John XXIII in 1961, so Cardinal Burke’s group is calling back to something that was new when the Sixties folks were kids.

  14. The Masked Chicken says:

    If you squint really had, Circuli Minores looks like Circus of Minors or Circle of Minnows. Either way, whoever said that a Latin was hard?

    The Chicken

  15. Nightcrawler says:

    From Cardinal Schonborns group:

    5 We have reiterated our respect and welcome homosexuals and have denounced the unjust and often violent discrimination they have suffered and still suffer at times, including in the Church, alas But that does not mean that the Church must legitimize homosexual practices, much less recognize, as do some states, a so-called homosexual “marriage”. Instead, we denounce all maneuvers of certain international organizations to impose, through financial blackmail, to poor countries of laws establishing a so-called homosexual “marriage”.

    Nice!

  16. Thorfinn says:

    I see Italicus Group B (Cardinal Bagnasco) as the most withering denunciation of the draft, essentially calling it a failure of courage, a failure to proclaim the Gospel, a failure of true pastoral care, and an overall expression of sloth toward authentic pastoral work. Assuming Google Translate is roughly accurate.

  17. oldcanon2257 says:

    John V says:

    It will be interesting to see what becomes of the rumored “demotion” of Cardinal Burke from being Prefect of the Apostolic Signatura to the Patron of the Knights of Malta, seemingly a fait accompli just prior to the Synod. Might the Pope’s advisers back off from what would surely now be characterized as retaliation against or punishment of the Cardinal for his outspokenness? Or might they double down and try to have him moved to an even less significant position (if there is such)?

    The liberals are a pretty vindictive/vengeful group. They might seek to settle their scores by having an Archdiocese of the Antarctica created with His Eminence appointed as its first archbishop.

    Either that or they will have His Eminence sent to Tehran as nuncio to Iran. If that were the case, at least it’s a guarantee that His Eminence will never ever kneel (unfortunately the late Archbishop Annibale Bugnini did kneel.)

    Those things might seem farfetched and all joking aside, but rest assured the liberals in the Roman Curia, having inhaled too much of a certain type of smoke (the smoke referred to by Paul VI), are a cunning and vengeful collective of entities who under certain influence are capable of anything.

    Please pray without ceasing (like Saint Paul said) for Cardinal Burke and all prelates who are loyal sons of Our Lord. I suspect their crosses will get much heavier pretty soon. I pray for them whenever I have a little break from my daily activities, asking Our Lady Queen of the Clergy and Saint Michael the Archangel to intercede for them. We could pray for them whenever wherever, even while standing in the checkout line at the grocery store or while refueling at the gas station.

    There’s a Catholic joke about praying, but pretty meaningful.

    “Two Jesuit novices both wanted a cigarette while they prayed. They decided to ask their superior for permission. The first asked but was told no. A little while later he spotted his friend smoking and praying. “Why did the superior allow you to smoke and not me?” he asked. His friend replied, “Because you asked if you could smoke while you prayed, and I asked if I could pray while I smoked!”

  18. Sonshine135 says:

    It seems to me that there were few if any who were please with the Relatio. The message that stuck with me the most was in Circle B:

    Many in the group felt that a young person reading the Relatio would if anything become even less enthusiastic about undertaking the challenging vocation of Christian matrimony. The Synod Report – and the Message – should direct itself towards young people, to help them understand and be attracted by the Christian vision of marriage and the family, in a world in which they are exposed to many contradictory visions.

    I think this statement nails it. You have to have something that will be taught to young people so that the proper expectations are set from an early age on how a person is expected to live, and why it is so beneficial.

    The most ambiguous statement of the circles was also in B:

    The Church must teach with clarity, but must also, as one member of the group stressed, “have the courage to knock on forbidden doors”. Very often when we find the courage to knock on forbidden doors what we discover surprises us: what we encounter inside is the loving presence of God which helps us to address the challenges of today, no longer on our terms, but in new ways which might otherwise have been unimaginable. Knocking on forbidden or unaccustomed doors involves risk and courage. Fear and anxiety of what we think are forbidden doors may mean excluding opening ourselves to the God who always surprises.

    I am left questioning what exactly those forbidden doors are. If this means going to speak with homosexual groups, divorced groups, and delivering the Good News, I agree. If it means going there and affirming a disordered relationship, then that is quite a different story.

  19. tcreek says:

    It is a terrible thing to contemplate > my pastor seeing the comments here. Two days of unmitigated joy and now this.

  20. Pat says:

    I read the the groups’ summaries: Italian and Spanish groups seem clear and explicit on the need to change points 50-52, The French are more vague…..what did you think, Padre?

  21. TWF says:

    Collegiality, properly understood, is very much an orthodox and traditional concept. Synods have been absolutely essential to the life of the Church going back to the Apostles themselves (Acts 15). What liberals failed to predict, with the constant push for greater collegiality, is that the bishops, as a body, may very well be orthodox!

  22. tcreek says:

    Gregg the Obscure said at 11:14
    Circle C produced one of the strangest things I’ve seen in a while: “We rightly wish to welcome, without judgment or condemnation, those who, for some reason, are not yet able to express life-long commitment in a marriage between a man and a woman.”
    —-
    I agree that seems a somewhat strange statement, but on the whole, I think the statement from the Archbishop Kurtz group was the best in defending orthodox teaching.
    1. Marriage is gift of God to man. …
    2. We strongly felt that the tone of the entire document should express our confidence in marriage. …
    3. … the document should also give encouragement to those committed to their marriages and families. …
    6. The task presented to us during the synod has made it clear that proper pastoral care of the married and for those in other relationships, demands well-formed priests …

  23. Bea says:

    I just scanned through them.
    Interesting read.
    Italians mentioned the aging members of families more than the others and except for Schoenburg’s interpretation they all had wise corrections to make.

    I also saw this statement on another blog:
    “Cardinal Marx [a Kasperite] has been heard saying out loud that for him it is incomprehensible how the Synod Fathers are more bound to Tradition than to the Pope.”

    Tradition, the magisterium and the written word of the bible trumps the Pope, I dare to say.
    We must be loyal to the Church not to one particular man (unless he backs 100% the teachings of the Church) IMHO.

  24. ChrisRawlings says:

    I worry that with all of this homosexuality stuff, the original debate about divorce and remarriage is being ignored. These circuli reports show division, but not any kind of strong opposition. The relatio really was problematic, but so was the original Kasper proposal.

  25. gracie says:

    From Rorarte Coeli:

    “The Progressive Legion have no scruples whatever in accomplishing what they deem necessary . . . they not only offer compensations to those who are weak for career ‘promotions’, but they threaten, they blackmail, they shame, they lie, they deceive, they discriminate . . . they will go to the utmost consequences (even those we may consider absolutely unthinkable, and those we can not even imagine – they are capable of absolutely anything, as long as they manage to accomplish their end: the birth of their ‘New Church of Worldliness'”.:

    http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/10/synod-fathers-under-intense-pressure.html#more

    Good Lord, what are they talking about?

  26. incredulous says:

    Gracie, I think we see how leftists work in secular government. Why would they use any different tactics if they happen to be clergy trying to promote their progressive agenda? Vince Foster was assassinated, Ron Brown too, and think of how much blackmail the FBI files stolen by Clinton did? Also, one can only imagine the dirt they had on SCOTUS Justice Roberts to get him to ratify Obamacare? Leaders are easily blackmailed into doing what those in control want them to do.

  27. Papabile says:

    I wish I could help in the translation of the foreign reports. But that is what we need, a slavishly literaly translation that can actually convey the meaning of what is being said in the other languages.

    Eheu! If it were only written in Latin this wouldn’t be so hard.

    They are using the towel of babel to control messaging.

  28. acardnal says:

    CNS just released a video interview with Cardinal Pell about what happened with the release of the working group summaries of the Relatio. Very interesting.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlLqQJE9G_8&feature=em-uploademail

  29. Wryman says:

    Heh — Kasper says he didn’t say anything ’bout the Africans, but the reporter had a tape recorder and — oops, he said it!

  30. robtbrown says:

    Thorfinn says:

    I see Italicus Group B (Cardinal Bagnasco) as the most withering denunciation of the draft, essentially calling it a failure of courage, a failure to proclaim the Gospel, a failure of true pastoral care, and an overall expression of sloth toward authentic pastoral work.

    Cdl Bagnasco was removed from the Cong of Bishops, a very powerful post. No doubt he was going to take the opportunity to attack the Pope’s men, who produced the document undermining the morals of the Church.

    There were some real situations in Curial organization that needed to be remedied. One was taking the financial reins away from the Sec of State. Another yet to be done (and maybe never will be) is changing the basic structure so that all the Congregations report to the Sec of State.

    Unfortunately, there is also a movement that is going to try to use this reorganization to mitigate the authority of the papacy and increase the power of regional/national episcopal conferences.

  31. Kathleen10 says:

    @acardinal, that was a very reassuring clip from Cardinal Pell that you shared. Phew.

  32. I see Italicus Group B (Cardinal Bagnasco) as the most withering denunciation of the draft, essentially calling it a failure of courage, a failure to proclaim the Gospel, a failure of true pastoral care, and an overall expression of sloth toward authentic pastoral work. Assuming Google Translate is roughly accurate.

    I’m loving this.

    Somewhere out there is the next Pope. Somewhere. He may be at the Synod, or he may not be.

    But he’s sure as hell watching this with great interest, and I hope he’s making a list of names.

  33. kpoterack says:

    ‘I worry that with all of this homosexuality stuff, the original debate about divorce and remarriage is being ignored. These circuli reports show division, but not any kind of strong opposition. The relatio really was problematic, but so was the original Kasper proposal.”

    KP: Apparently, the CNS interview that we are seeing is edited. However, according to Carl Olsen at CWR (who must have seen the full interview), Card. Pell said that “just 3 of the 10 small groups were in support of Cardinal Walter Kasper’s proposal . . .” It’s hard to gauge because you don’t know if some or all of the groups voted unanimously – and if (most likely) not, how many. Anyway, it seems a reasonable guess that under 1/3 of the bishops support Kasper.

    http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Blog/3441/cardinal_pell_were_not_giving_in_to_the_secular_agenda_were_not_collapsing_in_a_heap.aspx

    This, to me, tallies with what I heard that at the 2005 synod, where there was a similar vote, about 1/4 of the bishops voted against a proposal to restate the sacramental discipline on this matter. Sub specie aeternitatis, not a good thing. However, given the general state of the Church today, it seems like, with all of his PR, Kasper has not had that much success.

    Still, much work to be done. Did you know Ignatius has published a book by five cardinals on this matter . . . ?

  34. robtbrown says:

    Correction.

    Should read:

    Another yet (and maybe never) to be done is changing the basic structure of the Curia so that all the Congregations no longer report to the Pope through the Sec of State.

  35. Rachel K says:

    I have scanned Anglicus A and B. I am encouraged by the positive suggestions made by the cardinals. I especially like the suggestion of Anglicus B to revisit Humanae Vitae and to present to the world a positive message regarding this document. Wow! That would be great!

    Gregg the Obscure-
    “Circle C produced one of the strangest things I’ve seen in a while: “We rightly wish to welcome, without judgement or condemnation, those who, for some reason, are not yet able to express life-long commitment in a marriage between a man and a woman.” Is that meant to refer to young children, habitual fornicators, sexual deviants, prison inmates, celibates? It could describe any of them, but the “reason” for each group couldn’t be more different!”
    Gregg, I flinched when I saw the list you gave above, about “habitual fornicators, sexual deviants” etc. because it made me think of Jesus saying “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”
    Isn’t this kind of harsh description a kind of stone throwing? Yes, agreed, some people are in a serious state of sin, if it was my son or your daughter, and we were face to face with them in our home, would we really say to them ” you are a serial fornicator! Stop it!”? And how much help would that be? Wouldn’t we say something more like ” darling, I am very concerned for the state of your soul. You know, because we have taught you, that the things you are doing are damaging your spiritual health, and I want you to get to Heaven. Please, let me help you to get off this path of destruction, tell me how I can help you to do this. I love you and want what is best for you.”
    Then we wait. No forcing or coercion, no bullying or blackmail, no threat of Hellfire, we want our loved ones to seek God for positive reasons, out of the warmth of love which we demonstrate to them.
    I think this is what Pope Francis is getting at, no change of message, but a change of tone, what in music would be called “timbre”, the quality of the sound. We can make it more appealing (some of the Synod statements talk about this) and attractive to those around us. Let’s do that.