VIDEO: Card. Pell speaks on a ‘secular agenda’, the Relatio, the “stalking horse”

His Eminence George Card. Pell about the Relatio and the debate over releasing it.

He calls Communion for divorced and remarried a “stalking horse” and homosexuality. He speaks about the first form of the Relatio. This is great stuff.

Pause, pray, catch your breath.

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48 Responses to VIDEO: Card. Pell speaks on a ‘secular agenda’, the Relatio, the “stalking horse”

  1. Charles E Flynn says:

    Now there is a Cardinal who deserves his rank, and is not simply an ordained and promoted “progressive” bureaucrat. Pray that Cardinal Pell does not become discouraged.

  2. Hank Igitur says:

    Cardinal Pell is well known in Australia for plain speaking and not shying away from the hard issues. At times this has not made him a lot of friends but he was never interested in personal popularity, only the truth. May he continue in this current vein and may he be delivered from his enemies.

  3. CatholicMD says:

    A good priest friend of mine told me today that he believes this synod will make men like Cdnls. Pell, Burke, Napier, and Sarah papabile in the future.

  4. Pingback: LisaGraas.com | Three things that gave me relief today in regard to the Synod

  5. EoinOBolguidhir says:

    Regarding CatholicMD’s comment, I have been wondering for some days if HH has been allowing the progressives to show themselves – both as who they are and as what they are – and then let them be hoist on their own petard. No one can criticize him if he never says no (or yes) and just listens and then makes compassionat gestures. But I would think that this is a stark humiliation for those of a certain stripe who decided to let it all hang out, and I don’t believe it’s an humiliation from which they might recover.

  6. Gaetano says:

    Card. Pell said it well: the Relatio lacks any Reference to Scripture, Tradition, or the vast theological patrimony of the Church since its inception. Because it can’t.

  7. Atra Dicenda, Rubra Agenda says:

    This was the most edified I’ve felt since Burke’s last video.

  8. Martlet says:

    Praise God!

  9. GAK says:

    Taking nothing away from Cardinal Pell (God bless him for leading the charge) I like to think, given the timing, Saint Teresa of Avila is the one who hockey checked Cardinal Balidsseri.

    Like this:
    http://totallycoolpix.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/27052011_coolest_pix_week_21/week21_055.jpg

    Or, this:
    http://images.bwbx.io/cms/2012-11-15/comp_molson47__01__630x420.jpg

    She crept up on him, all quite like, then, KAAABAM!

    No doubt she obtained many graces for the event that transpired today.

  10. Atra Dicenda, Rubra Agenda says:

    As an aside, I still can’t fathom how disturbing it would be to be a Cardinal like Burke or Pell or some of the African Father’s and have my Western brothers vehemently and unapologetically speak heresy and deny Christ and Catholic tradition.

  11. TomD says:

    Those who oppose what the Church teaches have overplayed their hand.

  12. GAK says:

    Atra Dicenda, Rubra Agenda: “As an aside, I still can’t fathom how disturbing it would be to be a Cardinal like Burke or Pell or some of the African Father’s and have my Western brothers vehemently and unapologetically speak heresy and deny Christ and Catholic tradition.”

    I agree with you.

    Also, I have wondered for many months now whether Pope Francis is almost dangerously naive.

  13. Landless Laborer says:

    Well, in the end, everybody gets what they wanted. The faithful pew sitters get a Catholic document, and the absentee Catholics, Protestants and worldlings get confirmation via the news that the Church has changed her teachings regarding sexual sins. My mother, a non-Catholic announced this to me. This could have the effect of washing away any remaining guilt, and why I still think His Holiness needs to make a clear statement to the media that sexual sin destroys one’s relationship with Christ, to set the record straight, (but oddly I don’t see that happening).

  14. Robbie says:

    Thank God for men like Cardinal Pell. It’s clear there aren’t very many of them in Rome, but thank God for men like Cardinal Pell.

  15. Chris in Maryland 2 says:

    What a heroic leader Cardinal Pell is. What a heroic leader Cardinal Burke is. What a heroic leader Cardinal Napier is.

    And all of those blessed Bishops unnamed who stood up and SPOKE CHRIST’S TRUTH TO WORLDY MEN like Card. Baldisseri and Kasper et al.

    And now Kasper has been caught in a public lie.

    St. John, Jesus’ best friend, has taught us why Baldisseri and Kasper have tried to stifle and suffocate open discourse at the Synod: “And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil.”

  16. Traductora says:

    Excellent! I doubt that the Pope meant to do this, but he has revivified orthodoxy: people suddenly realize how wonderful it is and how attractive it has been for 2000 years and how crazy we are to think of abandoning it. And there’s obviously a sudden, collective realization that the people entrusted with defending orthodoxy have actually got to do something and not just think it’s automatic in the Church.

    This pope is very authoritarian and I think he has intimidated many people, even very high ranking ones, because he is obviously not shy about simply removing the opposition and sending them off to the Antipodes or, alternatively, putting someone in authority over them who is diametrically opposed to their positions, even though such positions are perfectly legitimate. But there’s strength in numbers, and he obviously realized today that he had lost this particular battle and would have to acquiesce to the very riled up majority.

    I don’t know what the next step is going to be, and to a great extent, it’s true that the damage is already done, at least in the eyes of the public. I’m sure the Pope and the other progressives will try again, but he obviously can’t get rid of this many cardinals, so at least they will also probably remain strong enough to oppose him.

  17. Juergensen says:

    My, the wonders a new day brings. It appears Cardinal Kasper has been caught denying that which was captured on tape, and Cardinals Burke and Pell are shining as defenders of the faith. May the next conclave be a tossup between Burke and Pell!

  18. OrthodoxChick says:

    This video makes me want to jump through the laptop screen and give Cardinal Pell an enormous hug of gratitude. Thanks to him, indeed, I can now pause, pray, and catch my breath because he has reassured me that there are still some grown-ups left in the synod room; men who conduct themselves as an actual father does. Enough with the permissive parents who want to be our buddy. I’ll take a real father who loves me enough to tell me the truth even when I don’t want to hear it. Give me a father like that all day, every day.

    I pray that many more cardinals find the strength and courage to defend the Truth like cardinals Burke and Pell.

  19. TrierloM says:

    Double Amen to that Orthodox Chick!

  20. mrshopey says:

    Thank you.

  21. acardnal says:

    Cardinal Sarah made some great statements,too, supporting orthodoxy, scripture and tradition:

    http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/african-cardinal-pressure-groups-behind-push-to-change-church-teaching-48097/

  22. acardnal says:

    Cardinal Sarah made some great statements, too, about orthodoxy, scripture and tradition:
    HERE

  23. HeatherPA says:

    Thank you for this, Father Z.

  24. I like to think, given the timing, Saint Teresa of Avila is the one who hockey checked Cardinal Balidsseri.

    Amen to that! Take that, so-called Cardinal Balidsseri!

  25. jbpolhamus says:

    Telling it like it is. He’s not alone. Thankfully, the bishops of the world are in a much better state today then at anytime since the hateful Council, but you KNOW the Libs will try this again at the Ordinary Synod next year. Oh, they’ll try. And the Bishops will have to stand up to them again. And the Faithful will HAVE to make their voices heard in support of the Bishops. Pray for the Unity of the Church. Our Lady of Victories, intercede for Holy Church!

  26. otsowalo says:

    Traductora: I think you missed Cardinal Pell’s comments regarding the Holy Father in the interview. It starts at about 2:20. If you are thinking that the Pope is leading the progressive/left/secular agenda, all I can say is wow. just wow.

    Cardinal Pell was right: it was reassuring.

  27. Mother says:

    What a breath of fresh air!

  28. marcelus says:

    I suggest we must hold our horses. The skies have cleared a bit. But I suppose , as I’ve noticed in some posts and elsewhere, it’d extremely mistalen to take this a worlc cup final or something of that sort. The opinion of every father at the Synod has been forced to be made public. And some reassurance has been given like in the case of Crdl Pell, that not much will change NEXT YEAR.

    Traductora says:
    16 October 2014 at 7:42 pm
    Excellent! I doubt that the Pope meant to do this, but he has revivified orthodoxy:
    This pope is very authoritarian and I think …..

    The key of the matter is I guess, to finally hear where PF is in all of this.

    And ,he with his habit of giving interviews and not dodging the bullet on any issue , good or bad, shall get asked exactly that.

    There are two options:

    One . He is a nasty schemer, who staged, as I was reading in CM.tv today from a poster, staged Dolan’s Sait Patrick’s parade thing first, then removed the conservatives, appointed the liberals, staged the synod, and duct taped ther hands and mouths of the synod fathers in order to get this silly relatio out to the press. And besides, he would have to be a gay agenda fanatic to go thru all this trouble. Not even that much noise on the divorced and communion issue. Quite strange

    Two: He is welll intentioned and innocent? , He mentioned he would let the fathers have their way. for some reason (we’ll know relax) he appointed 6 writers (now 2 more) I think he opens the sessions and leaves, he said he does not want to be seen as supporting one side or the other in the discusssion. I remember he said once that if he attended the sessions, everyone would be looking at him to see which wey the wind blows. Those 6 guys took “advantage”? and went all the way, particularly Forte?

    Even Cardl Pell , who sounds very sincere in the video has some nice words about him.

    And I may be mistaken, but I have not seen any of the Synod participants either officially or off the record(more likely), come out and say : this is the long hand of Francis.

    In any case, come monday morning, he will still be Pope and for a few more years. So…Unless we are planning on leaving, we must comee to terms with that.

    The sides are clear and so are the stances. It remains to be seen how the relation between conservatives and liberals continues after this . Not a nice horizon

  29. After watching this, I actually feel as though I can get a good night’s sleep for a change. Good night.

  30. Ferde Rombola says:

    “he said he does not want to be seen as supporting one side or the other in the discussion.”

    What’s the ‘one side or the other” bit. What is there to discuss?? There is only one side, right?

  31. Marianna says:

    If the Pope was on the side of traditional Catholic teaching in these matters, we would have had a clear statement of it by now, if only to stop the dreadful confusion and anxiety being caused by this synod.

    If Pell is right, and the Fathers really stick up for orthodox Catholic teacing, both now and next year, the Pope will look like a lame duck for the rest of his Pontificate.

  32. Eugene says:

    Love this plain speaking tough ex Australian rules football player. Like Cardinals Burke, Sarah, Napier and Archbishop Leonard he is not giving in to the agenda of the day. Praise be to God for these faithful men. And God bless the Polish Bishops and their President, Polonia Semper Fidelis. I wish I could say the same for most of the weak kneed bishops of my adopted Country of Canada or my native country of Italy.
    JMJ have mercy on us.

  33. mrshopey says:

    What I propose, if I could and from experience, that those with ss attraction, the outreach be from group like Courage who do know how to help those who are struggling.
    We have ample proof here that those who just attend, are welcomed, do not change by being in the Church/receiving the sacraments. We see those, when their partner dies etc, still present themselves as having been in a union that could never be squared with our faith. They also, at least in my personal experience, confuse the children in the parish. I now am saddened by one, what I thought was very solid in her faith, rejecting the Church’s teaching on homosexuality because of an open lesbian couple. She is there, very vocal, supporting ss marriage under the guise of “rights” being denied. It does cause scandal to the little ones. Having seen that, and read the problems of others esp in death (how they still consider themselves), makes me firmly say NO to the so called welcoming without some requirements, how you will present yourself.
    A person who keeps attending, welcomed, and is not challenged on their sinful behaviors or attitudes, are not guaranteed the kingdom of heaven. Also, the disconnect and how one pastor deals with teaching the faithful, can cause them to turn away from the Church forever as all it takes is one faithful pastor, more concerned with their soul, to dedicate sermons on turning away from sin for the to bolt and take it to the media on their way out.
    Going to Church, being welcomed, is not good enough. I hope that is rejected.

  34. Ignatius says:

    I do love you, Cardinal Pell
    the reason why
    I do can tell!

    Bravo for this champion or orthodoxy. More like him, please!
    Best regards.

  35. DeGaulle says:

    Marcelus, perhaps there is a third option? That Pope Francis might be a “good Schemer”. I am praying that he is poulticing the wound and drawing out the pus for all to see. Maybe it is like Ali and Foreman with its “rope-a-dope”?

  36. Pingback: Blunt Truth From Down Under | The American Catholic

  37. Traductora says:

    I think the Pope probably really does believe that “softening” doctrine on these matters is a kind and charitable thing to do, since like most progressives, he really thinks that he knows what’s best and what he is doing is best for people. (With Cdl Kasper, I think it’s just a desire for power and perhaps a little touch of the Evil One.) The homily he gave the day the relatio came out was a scolding of people who adhered to “the law.”

    He was fully aware of what was going on, and I read in the Spanish press that he actually did attend some sessions but did not participate (except to pass notes to Cdl Baldiserri and nod at him occasionally). The Pope has never, to my knowledge, repudiated any of the statements attributed to him by others, such as Kasper or the Italian journalist, nor has he ever clarified anything, instead leaving it to the hapless Lombardi to imply that he was misquoted, misunderstood, etc.

    So while I think he means well and most certainly believes that he is being kind and “merciful,” I also think he’s fully aware of what’s going on and I doubt that his objective is to reinforce orthodoxy by flushing out the dissenters (at the cost of scandalizing the entire Church). If nothing else, he should certainly have said something about Cdl Kasper’s insults to the African and Asian bishops, whom Kasper accused of being swayed by “taboos” against homosexuality, and there’s no earthly reason that he should have appointed those five liberals on the matter, including the one blamed for inserting the pro-homosexual language, to make sure that the relatio came out a certain way, regardless of the actual statements.

    I think we have to be realistic about the Pope, based on what he says and does and also on his track record in Argentina, and give him both his good points and his bad points. He’s a human being like any other, and while he is the Successor to Peter, we certainly have to acknowledge that there have been many kinds of popes over the centuries, some better than others, and that even Peter failed Our Lord at times.

    This will certainly require lots of prayers from us for him, but maybe it also requires the St Catherine of Siena approach!

  38. Traductora says:

    I think the Pope probably really does believe that “softening” doctrine on these matters is a kind and charitable thing to do, since like most progressives, he really thinks that he knows what’s best and what he is doing is best for people. (With Cdl Kasper, I think it’s just a desire for power and perhaps a little touch of the Evil One.) The homily he gave the day the relatio came out was a scolding of people who adhered to “the law.”

    He was fully aware of what was going on, and I read in the Spanish press that he actually did attend some sessions but did not participate (except to pass notes to Cdl Baldiserri and nod at him occasionally). The Pope has never, to my knowledge, repudiated any of the statements attributed to him by others, such as Kasper or the Italian journalist, nor has he ever clarified anything, instead leaving it to the hapless Lombardi to imply that he was misquoted, misunderstood, etc.

    So while I think he means well and most certainly believes that he is being kind and “merciful,” I also think he’s fully aware of what’s going on and I doubt that his objective is to reinforce orthodoxy by flushing out the dissenters (at the cost of scandalizing the entire Church). If nothing else, he should certainly have said something about Cdl Kasper’s insults to the African and Asian bishops, whom Kasper accused of being swayed by “taboos” against homosexuality, and there’s no earthly reason that he should have appointed those five liberals on the matter, including the one blamed for inserting the pro-homosexual language, to make sure that the relatio came out a certain way, regardless of the actual statements.

    I think we have to be realistic about the Pope, based on what he says and does and also on his track record in Argentina, and give him both his good points and his bad points. He’s a human being like any other, and while he is the Successor to Peter, we certainly have to acknowledge that there have been many kinds of popes over the centuries, some better than others, and that even Peter failed Our Lord at times.

    This will certainly require lots of prayers from us for him, but maybe it also requires the St Catherine of Siena approach!

  39. marcelus says:

    DeGaulle says:
    17 October 2014 at 7:05 am
    Marcelus, perhaps there is a third option? That Pope Francis might be a “good Schemer”. I am praying that he is poulticing the wound and drawing out the pus for all to see. Maybe it is like Ali and Foreman with its “rope-a-dope”?

    Good one ,,!! who knows?

    Ferde Rombola says:
    16 October 2014 at 11:14 pm
    “he said he does not want to be seen as supporting one side or the other in the discussion.”

    What’s the ‘one side or the other” bit. What is there to discuss?? There is only one side, right?

    Agree. But… c’mon…

    Traductora says:
    17 October 2014 at 8:24 am

    Yes, that may be.

    When he speaks, we’ll know

  40. robtbrown says:

    GAK says:
    Also, I have wondered for many months now whether Pope Francis is almost dangerously naive.

    I think he has been naive–but probably not in the way you think.

  41. jmgarciajr says:

    Some comments in a “for what it’s worth” vein:

    I have heard some people “in a position” to be well informed, and who have experience with some of the people involved, speculate along the lines that EoinOBolguidhir has suggested. (Their speculations envision a somewhat more nuanced scenario, but along those lines.)

    Many years prior to his election, I had a conversation with some particularly holy and orthodox Jesuits. I mentioned then-Cdl. Bergoglio, and they all nodded in approval. One of them said to me, “You know, he’s not…um…well-liked at the Jesuit Curia.” The conversation meandered a while and we touched upon how a certain troublesome Jesuit from Argentina had been “promoted” with great pomp to some dicasterial backwater. “Typical Bergoglio. All smiles, no fingerprints.” was the assessment.

    Lastly, I am greatly encouraged by Cdl. Pell being a leading light in the Synod. As one of the “Gang of 8” he has the respect of the Holy Father and likely access to him. (I confess to worrying that Other People have access thereto, and let me just leave it at that…) I also like how he expresses what can sometimes be misinterpreted as “hard teachings” in a calm and reassuring and — gasp! –merciful tone.

  42. cajuncath says:

    This is about the most glorious moment the Church has had in my lifetime.

    Ignatius – Cardinal Pell is doing wonderfully on this set of issues but that does not make him a champion of full orthodoxy. A review of his jumbled thinking on creation, evolution, and original sin shows some real problems.

  43. Pat says:

    More on the “secular agenda”: http://www.wnd.com/2014/10/major-u-s-city-demands-oversight-of-sermons/ Cardinal DiNardo may have to say something…..

  44. Andkaras says:

    No thoughtful Catholic would expect every Bishop to be expert at all things Church, however one could expect a very good Bishop to tease out from his fellows the right experts ,the right sound bites,the right venue , to best serve the people of God. Let’s keep an eye on that swamp fox. ; )

  45. Curley says:

    CatholicMD says:
    A good priest friend of mine told me today that he believes this synod will make men like Cdnls. Pell, Burke, Napier, and Sarah papabile in the future.

    I had the same thought. These Cardinals are emerging as leaders that a majority would likely support with what went on in the Synod hall yesterday. And from what Fr. Z has speculated, another abdication may be coming in the next 2-3 years when the pope turns 80.

  46. Pat says:

    Sad news: http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/cardinal-burke-reportedly-confirms-vatican-ouster
    Still, it is unusual that his Eminence did not wait for an official statement.

    Instead, Card Kasper never lost his job in Rome under Benedict XVI, regardless of his opposition to Dominus Iesus. Indeed, a different, more “tolerant” regime.

  47. MrsMacD says:

    Thank you so much Father, for posting this! God bless Cardinal Pell! Fresh air! This has actually taken away all my anxiety about the synod. When God is with us what does it matter who is against us?

  48. Rachel K says:

    Thanks for posting this Fr Z, which was very reassuring.
    I think it is good that the Holy Father is sitting and listening to what all the cardinals have to say. I think he is giving some a rope with which to hang themselves. We need to have more faith. Faith that the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit. Faith that although a few lefty weirdo liberals are given a bit of airtime to blather on the final outcome of the Synod will be a document which upholds the teaching of the Church.
    But there is also the point that the Holy Father makes time and again that we have to be more merciful to those in irregular situations. I have just met a lady who is my son’s teacher at preschool. She told me on meeting, in a rather sheepish way, that she is a parishioner in my parish but hasn’t been for a long time. From the rest of the conversation I learned that she has been a single parent for many years, working to bring up her three children who are now grown. One of them had many difficulties with dyslexia and struggled greatly through school. Who knows what it is like to be in her shoes? Who knows the pain of heart she has suffered? And the sheer hard work of being a lone parent. I should encourage her to come to Mass, which she is of course able to do, and maybe she can even receive communion, who knows? I think this is what Pope Francis is getting at. That dear woman can continue to benefit from Grace, even if her circumstance pregents her from accessing the sacraments at this time. I do think that at parish level we are not very welcoming in general to people in this and similar situations. Especially in Britain where we are too polite to be polite!!

    Landless Laborer-
    ” I still think His Holiness needs to make a clear statement to the media that sexual sin destroys one’s relationship with Christ, to set the record straight”

    Pope Francis doesn’t need to do that because the Church has stated that this is the case for hundreds of years in many, many documents. I agree with him that we cannot just overfocus on one area of sin, we need to give the whole message and I am sure the final outcome of the Synod will be this.