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the bishops rose up as a body to fight against the obvious manipulation carried on by the leadership of the Synod (Card. Baldisseri).
I think it’s clear who is really leading the synod, as shown in the other post:
At that point, Card. Baldisseri turned to the Pope and got the nod to publish.
Is this the first time since the Early Church that the Bishops have stood up for the Faith against manipulations? How long ago did it last happen? Was it decades or centuries ago?
Fr John Hunwicke
I read the document which recently emerged from Rome with increasing disbelief. ‘Is this some sort of joke?’ I wondered. I checked in my diary that the date was not April 1.
And this Fr. quotes from — On Consulting the Faithful in matters of Doctrine by Blessed John Henry Newman.
A.D. 382: S Gregory [Nazianzenus] writes: “If I must speak the truth, I feel disposed to shun every conference of Bishops; for never saw I synod brought to a happy issue, and remedying, and not rather aggravating, existing evils. For rivalry and ambition are stronger than reason …”
I’ve seen the Synod’s initial report entitled Relatio Post Disceptationem.
Would not a better title be Relatio Deceptorius? [-a relatio is feminine.]
Unwilling said: “Is this the first time since the Early Church that the Bishops have stood up for the Faith against manipulations? How long ago did it last happen? Was it decades or centuries ago?”
Oh, heck, no. The modern Church is pretty darned tame, even compared to the Church from a hundred years ago. Synods and councils are usually full of bishops full of juice and going at it, whether in conversation or otherwise. There’s usually tons of plotting and interfering from civil authorities, noblemen, moneymen, ladies who throw parties, blackmailers, poisoners, roaming armies, etc. Tons of times, bishops and popes have had to pick up and flee elsewhere. Also plagues, famines, wars, earthquakes, propping up dead bodies just to snark at them, antipopes, evil guys, etc., etc. It’s messy because it involves human beings, and it attracts unholiness because it’s God’s work and the devil envies Him.
So yeah, Church history is not boring. A lot of people make it boring so as not to scandalize the kiddies and Protestants, but then you end up having the kiddies get scandalized as adults instead.
Amen, Father. That was exactly what I thought when I heard about the relatio. But we should also remember that the rejection of the Robber Synod by the Council of Chalcedon precipatated a schism that has lasted 15 centuries.
The Copts, Ethiopians, Armenian, Syriacs, and Indian Syriacs remain in schism to this day as a result. We should not be too surprised if this leads to a schism as well.
I was thinking of ‘Ephesus 449’ as well: when is a Synod not a Synod?
JohnRoss:
And after 1500 years the Oriental Orthodox (Copts, Ethiopians, Syriacs, etc) have maintained valid orders / sacraments…and would be most scandalized by some of the wording in the recent draft document.
TWF, I think you misunderstand my point. There’s no doubt the Oriental Orthodox would be aghast should Pope Francis approve anything remotely resembling what leaked out from the Synod on Monday. He could just as well kiss any dream of East-West reunion goodbye were he to do so.
My point here that should this synod be approved it could create a permanent and lasting schism just like the rejection of the Robber Synod of 449 and the subsequent Council of Chalcedon did.
The Robber Synod agreed on a formula that St. Leo the Great deemed heretical — one that the Oriental Orthodox still celebrate.
Dioscoros is considered by the Catholic Church to have been a heretic, yet he is revered as a great saint.