@BishopBarron held a secret, “invite-only” meeting about the rise of “trads”. Wherein Fr. Z opines and invites (again)

As reported by Fishwrap (aka National Schismatic Reporter), it seems that Bp. Robert Barron highly-visible, media-prelate, Auxiliary of Los Angeles,

… hosted an invite-only meeting of Catholic media professionals last week to discuss “disturbing trends in the online Catholic world,” including the rise of “radical Traditionalist” movements that are often [?] marked by personal attacks and vitriolic commentary.

Personal attacks?!? He would do better to start with those site which manifestly, repeatedly, shamelessly undermine the teachings of the Church and cause scandal, such as the very Fishwrap reporting this non-transparent, secretive meeting!  They could start with the positively “venomous” Michael Sean Winters, who wrote that he wants to watch people with whom he disagrees die, he doesn’t think converts should have a voice in the Church, and tries to get people fired from their jobs.

Where is this coming from, you might ask.

The private meeting took place July 29 via Zoom and was confirmed to NCR by Brandon Vogt, content director for Word on Fire Catholic Ministries.

Vogt said that the meeting was initiated at his suggestion and had a threefold purpose, to discuss:

  • A “culture of contempt” among Catholics online;
  • The rise of “tabloid style” news in the Catholic press, “often in service of accruing web traffic and video views”;
  • The influence of the so-called “radical Traditionalist” (or “rad-trad”) movements online.

“Rad trads” are often young Catholics who prefer traditional liturgy, including the Latin Mass, and subscribe to more conservative political beliefs and religious practices.

“All of these are major pastoral issues, which is why I proposed to Bishop Barron, in his capacity as bishop, to host a meeting with various Catholic media leaders to discuss these items,” said Vogt.

Interesting.

More from Fishwrap:

Vogt said the meeting of Catholic media professionals discussed the online behavior of traditionalists who “ruthlessly criticize the pope and bishops, and question the authority of the Second Vatican Council, often to the point of repudiation.”

While neither Barron nor Vogt specifically identified individuals or organizations responsible for targeted online attacks, much of the criticism directed at Barron has been fueled by fringe right-wing sites such as LifeSiteNews and Church Militant.

“Fringe right-wing sites”.   Let’s drill into that for a moment.

Alexa says that Fishwrap is #101,350 in global internet engagements.
Word On Fire is #122,959.
However, Lifesite News is #25,936.
Church Militant is #74,261.

Similar Web shows Fishwrap at a Global Rank of 53913
Word on Fire is 74513
Life Site News is 18673
Church Militant is 50595.

LifeSite and Church Militant are kicking Fishwrap‘s dissident backside in traffic and even more strongly outpacing the beige Word On Fire.

WHO’S THE “FRINGE”?

Brandon Vogt proposed this anti-“trad” closed-door meeting.  Vogt aimed the meeting at … whom?… the competition?

I wonder.  At any time, did someone ask, “How can we get rid of these troublesome trad websites?”

I wonder.  Did the anti-“trad” closed-door meeting include any “trads”? Were any who are considered by them to be “trads” invited to participate in that meeting?  What about dialogue?

There are trads of every stripe, of course.  I like Scott Hahn’s distinction of “mad trads”, “sad trads” and “glad trads”.

I offer two things for Bp. Barron’s consideration.

First, if you want to create a firestorm by trying to squelch “trad” (however you define it) sites, the “trads” have the matches.   Samizdat will be redefined should it ever come to  action in that regard.

Second, if you want to demonstrate good will and work on your invite-only agenda in a positive way, I’ll help.

Here’s the first way:.

Your Excellency, Bishop Barron, please come to Madison to be celebrant for a Pontifical Mass in the Traditional Roman Rite.   I assure you that we, for our part, will pull out all the stops.  It would be massively attended.  It would be a terrific occasion for you to preach to “trads” (however you define them) and win them over and also to listen to them.

This is, again, a gesture of good will.   What say you, Your Excellency?

Please write to me.  I’m not hard to find.

Fr. Z

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About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

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49 Responses to @BishopBarron held a secret, “invite-only” meeting about the rise of “trads”. Wherein Fr. Z opines and invites (again)

  1. ArthurH says:

    To Bischop Barron: Et tu Brute? Robert I hardly know you!

    To Father Z: “Well done my good and faithful servant.”

  2. iPadre says:

    What ever happened to accompaniment? Or is that only for radical liberals, radical abortionists, radical homosexuals, … ?

  3. teomatteo says:

    Lifesite seems pretty tame to be part of their ‘concern’. Church Militant on the other hand… but… they have had some serious investigation into SSPX from what i have seen. Serious allegations. I would hope that Mr Vogt channels his energies to all the media voices … Our Church is bigger on the inside than it looks from the outside. ( I for one would contribute/volunteer if Bishop Barron takes you up on the offer)

  4. Gaetano says:

    If they think ChurchMilitant & Lifesite are Rad Trads, I’d hate for them to see a real Rad Trad site. Heads would explode.

  5. Kerry says:

    “Fringe right wing”? Really?
    “Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.”

  6. Vir Qui Timet Dominum says:

    Bishop Barron has been on the internet this long, yet has still not learned it’s number one rule: DON’T FEED THE TROLLS! I get it, he’s got some people on his Twitter feed that badger him about everything and anything. But you have to (firstly) ignore the obvious sedevacantist trolls as they come (and they will come) and recognize that the majority of those that disagree with you are sick of being lied to and spoken down to when it comes to the sacred Liturgy. The same goes with the council.

  7. Kenneth Wolfe says:

    So Bishop Barron has reached out to America Magazine to solicit advice on how to silence traditional Catholic media.
    Yet there are still conservative priests out there that lift him up to be the next Fulton Sheen.

  8. bbmoe says:

    Your Excellency,

    I began going to the TLM in earnest two months ago because the priests who celebrate it were willing to do so even under very restricted conditions during the lockdown, and the “trads” have made receiving the Eucharist a priority in a way that normies simply haven’t. I know many lovely, devoted Catholics who go to NO exclusively, but on the whole, there’s no /fight/ there. There’s no sense, broadly, that going to Mass is essential, and certainly, if we have a bishop who’s entirely captive to the politics of the moment (either intra-ecclesia or extra), the sheep are listlessly watching the mass via livestream.

    I find it very hard to go to the NO now. I’m not the only one.

  9. Linda says:

    Bishop Barron’s main target is Taylor Marshall. Very sad situation.

  10. Kenneth: Apparently Vogt/Barron reached out to Fishwrap, because Fishwrap is giving details given by Vogt. But is there some indication out there that they also reached out to Amerika? It makes sense that they would, of course.

    Amerika has on Alexa a site ranking of #80,549

  11. Dan says:

    Well, there are serious reasons to doubt the accuracy of the reporting given the primary source. Maybe Bishop Barron did or didn’t initiate the meeting. I know it is hard to believe but maybe fishwrap skews words and headlines toward their own agenda.
    For all we know Bishop Barron called them together to spank them and tell them to start listening to traditional Catholics because there is something there. ….. a guy hope and pray. We just can’t trust any information that comes from them.

    [Let’s go with your scenario. I’ll look for a correction to be issued by Bp. Barron, Etc.]

  12. Lusp says:

    I wonder if any of these “fringe” groups were invited? As I write this, Bishop Barron’s latest video has 4.9k views and T Marshall’s has 27k. I had no idea things were this disparate.

    [The Left knows.]

  13. The Astronomer says:

    I was told in the pre-COVID days by a local priest (same age as me, 57) that I wouldn’t be a “traditionalist” if I was open-minded enough to be…wait for it: deprogrammed.

    The beige Catholics who’ve discovered in these days of ‘pandemic’ that they enjoy sleeping in and leisurely breakfast on Sunday may likely NEVER return. To their (literal) eternal sorrow, these are the same ‘c’atholics who couldn’t tell you what makes Episcopalians different from us.

    I think prelates and priests like the good LA bishop will find this out after their accountant gives them the financials showing post-return-to-normal Mass attendance ain’t what it used to be.

  14. Alex says:

    Thanks for posting on this, Fr. Z.

    In case Mr. Wolfe doesn’t see your question, here is a source citing Amerika as a co-conspirator: https://gloria.tv/post/aicucNCRoKrQ1Su4JBuZitWud

  15. Perhaps what we have here is a self-licking icecream cone.

    The meeting of those disturbed was about the rise of a “radical Traditionalist” movement, writes Christopher White on the dissenting NcrOnline.org (August 3).

    White previously worked for CruxNow.com which is flooded with Bishop Barron advertisement. Present on the call were America Media (Jesuits), Catholic News Agency (EWTN), Catholic News Service (US bishops), CruxNow.com (sponsored also by Barron), and Our Sunday Visitor (U.S. National Weekly Newspaper).

    Self-Licking Icecream Cone

  16. MitisVis says:

    It started with mumbling of young traditionally minded having mental disorders, then the suppression and closure of traditional orders and institutions for dubious reasons. Various events and ceremonies which drew the ire of faithful Catholics including the Dubia, McCarrick scandal, China deal, Muslim interactions up to the Amazon synod and pagan idols brought undefined and undirected mentions of schism and schismatics. This last Ad Limina saw our bishop (Diocese of Boise) restrict the TLM and instruct the priests to count us. How many, how often and what age. Others tell me this is not isolated but going on in many dioceses in various ways. With worldwide events and the Church’s role in it or lack of, I’m wondering why traditional Catholicism and counting our numbers is important at this moment.

  17. Geoffrey says:

    Am I the only one who is weary at all these divisions among Catholics? We should all be on the same side, regardless of which form of the Roman Rite we choose to frequent. I thought Fr. Dwight Longenecker had a rather good piece on all this:

    https://dwightlongenecker.com/bishop-barron-takes-on-the-rad-trads/?fbclid=IwAR1ob1mso2vQqsGi4cOZyTuV7BD57sqXYJgdi02tX86f4GO5-DHIzmeGOpY

    [Post shorter links or summarize what he said, please.]

  18. Clare610 says:

    I have a different experience since this pandemic. I love the TLM. However, In my area, the TLM is more restrictive for Mass than the Novis Ordo Mass. In my parish, Mass is limited to 100 parishioners. Masks yes, but no separation between those who receive on the tongue or in their hand. While I wish we had a TLM at our parish, perhaps once a week, I do love that we who receive on the tongue are not singled out. It works for us. I just appreciate being back IN PERSON!

  19. Kenneth Wolfe says:

    From the Fishwrap article:

    “NCR has confirmed that representatives of America Media, Catholic News Agency, Catholic News Service, Crux and Our Sunday Visitor were present on the call.“

    [duh…   o{]:¬)  ]

  20. Grumpy Beggar says:

    It’s really. . . um, weird, how it always seems to be others who are allowed to classify or categorize Catholic people into groups.It would seem to imply that they subsequently have already assumed the authority to divide us as well.
    Suddenly, there is an identifiable group out there (or here) called radical traditionalists. Which ****-head decided that this is how the Catholic world should be classified and who should be included in such a grouping ? A lot of us who regularly attend the Novus Ordo have a profound respect and love for the TLM. I actually used to seve the TLM (only 7 years old) before Novus Ordo became a reality. What category do you think they will put us in ? Where does their purported authority come from – if not from themselves ?
    It wouldn’t surprise me at all if Bishop Barron’s words were being manipulated and exploited. If they’re worried about talk against Pope Francis, it wouldn’t surprise me either if the name of Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò had come up in their invite only meetings. Although, I don’t know that I have ever heard Archbishop Viganò referred to a radical traditionalist .

    Unless we think pope Francis is the Antichrist, the first thing we have to do is to pray for him : Like it or not, he is the head of our church at the moment ( and he surely needs our prayers). After that, I think we need to be cautious at this point in history not to foster internal division. Remember, the Devil’s MO is always the same: Divide and conquer.

    I believe a lot of our bishops would do much better if they concentrated more on how they failed us during this COVID-19 fiasco: ie, “See wolf . . run away.” All of the sacraments were pulled right out from under us – by bishops who don’t have the authority to do that ! Your Grace : Please stop nitpicking at the speck you see in our eyes, get a hold of the plank in your own eyes, go to Confession, and then do what you can to rectify all the the BS you have allowed to creep into the celebration of the Mass.

    Sorry guys, but I’m Grumpy. ( head. . . hands )

    PS. If ever there was a fringe site , it absolutely has to be National catholic Reporter.

  21. Sue in soCal says:

    I am not surprised by this story. If you frequent Bishop Barron’s YouTube site, critical comments are purged leaving only the positive ones. So much for dialogue.
    I am always amazed at the zealousness of his fan base who think Bishop Barron is the second coming of Archbishop Fulton Sheen. I would not be shocked if they soon declare him the second coming of Someone Else.

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  23. Gab says:

    Bishops have three main responsibilities:
    To teach, to govern and to sanctify.

    (Unless this has been changed in recent times).

  24. Deacon Ed Peitler says:

    Oh, so this was a secret meeting about RadTrads? No, it wasnt at all. This was a meeting about laypersons whose podsites seem to be as popular as that of BISHOP Barron’s AND who have had the temerity to challenge Bishop Barron on any one of a number of occasions (such as who’s eligible for Heaven, whose place it is to criticize street thugs who desecrate religious artifacts, etc). No, this is about public online criticism of the hierarchy for being AWOL. This is about laypersons publicly criticizing the Pope for his failure to lead the Church heroically. And Bishop Barron doesn’t like all this one bit. A tad prickly, I’d say.

  25. JonPatrick says:

    One issue particularly between Bishop Barron and Church Militant is his view that we have a reasonable hope that all men are saved and that hell is empty. To many this sounds like Universalism although on his web site he is careful to say that having “a reasonable hope” is not the same as knowing all men are saved or even expecting it. He also admits the possibility that the biblical statement about Judas can be understood to say that he is in hell but he falls back on the position that the Church has never definitively stated this. Although I understand his reasoning, which follows many theologians in the Church such as Von Balthazar, it does seem to me that at a time where people do not seem to take sin and eternal damnation seriously, this is not the time to be emphasizing this.

    I also have to wonder why he and others who are so concerned with the traditionalist movement never seem to ask the question why is it happening especially among young people, and whether there is anything lacking in the post Vatican II Church that could be contributing. After all if VII was so great why are we not seeing the fruits of it but instead have seen a steady decline in every measurement (attendance, vocations, etc.) ?

  26. Gil Garza says:

    Content is, as they say, king. The content of the ancient Roman liturgy is unmatched in the Christian world. This content will transform the Church and the World. The reason, in my view, that the ranks of the clergy and religious have been decimated is that the content of the Roman Liturgy both Holy Mass and the Hours were destroyed. You don’t see the extent of the devastation unless you know what the content of Holy Mass and the Hours were before the Liturgical Movement. The vast majority of the clergy don’t know what they’re missing! The ancient Holy Mass and the Hours, as a unity, are the beating heart of the Church. Renewal, vitality, and holiness will thrive where the content of the ancient Roman liturgy has been unchained.

  27. Marion Ancilla Mariae II says:

    Each “side” – and there seem to be a dozen or more iterations of the sides – seems to think that *theirs* is the side of the Angels.

    But did not the Master tell us that the side of God to be found with the one who dares not raise his eyes to Heaven, but prays, “Oh, God, be merciful to me, a sinner,” . . . ?

    And if I start my day with any other prayer but this, whose side am I really on? (The answer might surprise me!)

  28. Fallibilissimo says:

    I think this is a great initiative by the Bishop and is a welcome dose of much needed leadership in Catholic “new” media (it’s not new anymore). I only saw the few short clips he posted but I would want to see much more.

  29. RosaryRose says:

    I just realized: This is not about Tradition vs post-VII modernism, or Bishop Sheen, or Alexa numbers.

    This is about Archbishop Vigano and the McCarrick report. The read world has been screaming about it.

    !!!!

  30. RosaryRose says:

    I meant Trad world has been screaming about it

  31. ChesterFrank says:

    Do you think maybe the leftward leaning political operatives are eye on an thumb in the Church? Recently news media have run stories how some conservative folks are fearful of letting their political views known. They don’t want to be targeted by the left. Afraid of being targeted. This is how it started in Germany in the 1930’s.

  32. adriennep says:

    Our local NO parish is having severe depopulation crisis. Seems the modernists can’t take a little suffering and their fans would rather “wait for a vaccine” before receiving Our Lord again. They don’t even see the bomb that hit them. Meanwhile we drive 45 minutes away to eagerly attend a Latin Mass presided over by a 29-year-old priest who has spectacular homilies as well and a humble but serene schola. I just realized how happy my soul is without hearing We Gather Together sloppy inane music every week. We will be working on more fundraising for our trad Una Voce group with trad book sales and even trad potlucks for good measure. The TLM really works. We live our trad community. And since we have community now, our immune system is strong.

  33. Ave Maria says:

    I have not paid any attention to anything from Bp. Barron for a number of years. However it might be noted that on our parish’s Flocknote site, there is always now the option to include some little video from him. I do have a group on Flocknote but will never include one of his videos. While some things might be worthwhile, they cannot be trusted to give the whole truth or that they may even to include something along the heretical side.

  34. Semper Gumby says:

    Excellent post and comments. Deo volente, Bishop Barron will accept Fr. Z’s invitation to celebrate Holy Mass in the Traditional Roman Rite. What a joyous opportunity for all.

    These days, unfortunately, Word On Fire is displaying: a growing intolerance of constructive criticism and open debate; a budding fear of faithful Catholics; nascent scapegoating; disinterest in shaming unhinged Leftists such as Michael Sean Winters; and conspiratorial activity. The folks at WOF are kindly reminded to return to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and avoid the path to being known as Wannsee On Fire. Have a pleasant day.

  35. FrJohnDowney says:

    These comments about Bishop Barron could easily be applied to me too. I’ve been known to have an “Invitation Only” Finance Council Meeting in the parish. I don’t like either’ 70s Hippies, who want Jelly Beans or Pizza for Holy Communion and love the song “Leavin’ On a Jet Plane” for the Feasts of the Assumption and the Ascension and love vestments with kangaroos and rainbows telling me what an old Grump I am, nor do I enjoy someone telling me that I’m a “Modernist” because I will celebrate (not say or read) Mass in English, Spanish or German. I don’t like balloons at Mass nor do I enjoy a homily focused on how Mary will save us from the wrath of God.

    I know Bishop Barron personally. I don’t know Fr. Zuhlsdorf personally but with the last name like that, I think we’d have a great time talking, maybe even in German. I’d take him for a Schweinebraten Dinner and we’d tell stories about our lives as Priests. I’ve been under the Spiritual Direction of Thomas Merton’s Spiritual direction, met St. Pope John II in person and had his hand on my head (which makes me a third-class relic) and I’ve also gotten a Religious Sister fired as Principal at a school for having some Priest show up, dressed in a clown suit for a “Clown Mass”. I’ve also been accused of being too conservative because I like incense and chant at Mass or Adoration and refusing to go to the L.A. Religious Education Congress. I’m also WAY too conservative for a lot of people on my Facebook page. I support the Police and Firefighters and actually know the difference between socialism and what the Church Teaches regarding morality. And the sin of all sins (for Leftists) I believe that all human life matters, even the unborn and that I will not do a “gay” wedding, and refer to that Sacrament as “Holy Matrimony” in public!

    This critique of Bishop Barron seems to be much too slanted without really knowing who Bishop Barron is concerned about. I don’t know Bishop Barron’s mind, but I do know that he is not a flaming liberal who wants to use pizza and root beer for Mass, and he’s not such a traditionalist that he has no compassion for anyone and demands that Lay-people kneel in his presence.

    “What we have here is a failure to communicate!”

    Take a deep breath and listen to God remind you that gossip and snide remarks aren’t going to do anyone any good. In these times we Catholics should be uniting against the powers of evil which surround us in the secular world and in some religion which claims to be “The Religion of Peace” and stand up together with St. Michael and Christ Himself for our Church, which is obviously under attack from secularists and radical leftists who want to burn down our Churches, Cathedrals, and Basilicas and slaughter the unborn and spread hate for all Christians, including the Orthodox, Protestants and we Catholics.

    Viva Cristo Rey!!!

    [Father, thanks for that. Viva Cristo Rey! This is why I would like to cut through all the B as in B, S as in S. This is why I INVITED Bp. Barron here to celebrated a Pontifical Mass. We could, if he wished, have a round table or a conference FOR TRADS (without excluding people, of course). The point is… I would be happy to engage. Such a thing would help heal a rift. And I very much like both Schweinebraten and Sauerbraten.]

  36. seeker says:

    Maybe Bishop Barron and his media friends could take this approach, biblical in origin:

    So now I tell you, have nothing to do with these men, and let them go. For if this endeavor or this activity is of human origin, it will destroy itself.

    But if it comes from God, you will not be able to destroy them; you may even find yourselves fighting against God.

  37. Toan says:

    Personally, I have a hard time getting too excited about this Zoom meeting. Basically all we know is that they discussed rad trads…We don’t know what was said or what conclusions they reached. One can hope they reached charitable ones, no?

    It is amusing, however, that the Fishwrap was not invited to the meeting. Ouch.

  38. oakdiocesegirl2 says:

    Love the Alexa stats! Others who were probably left out of Barrons pow-wow: Tim Gordon, Michael Matt, John Son of Thunder, Padre Peregrino, Frs Frank Pavone, Mark Goring, Donald Calloway, Chris Alar, Gerald Murray, John Paul Echert, James Altman, Robert Altier, et al

  39. AlanLins says:

    One of my observations is that the late Bishop Morlino possessed two qualities which many bishops do not seem to have. 1) He was intellectually curious. 2) He was a leader who could think strategically.

    From my vantage point (sitting behind a computer screen), young people around the world are being drawn to the traditions that Catholicism has to offer. It seems to me that Summorum Pontificum kicked open the doors to traditional Catholic worship. The numbers of young people who attend TLMs are slowly, but steadily, increasing. And I have also observed that the annual pilgrimage from Paris to Chartres is comprised mostly of young people and is steadily growing. Bishop Morlino did not ignore what seems to be an emerging trend; rather he seemed to recognize it and created an environment in the Diocese of Madison which allowed seeds to be planted.

    What did Bishop Morlino do that makes me think he was a strategic leader?

    There are a significant number of TLM’s in the Diocese of Madison which are in reasonable driving distance for almost everyone in the diocese. Bishop Morlino asked his seminarians to learn the TLM as part of their studies. His public celebrations of the NO were Ad Orientem. He frequently celebrated the TLM. All of these actions were strategic in nature…they planted seeds for the future.

    I strongly suspect that Bishop Morlino’s actions are going to bear much good fruit for the Diocese of Madison in the years to come. I really wish I could see the same level of intellectual curiosity and strategic leadership from more bishops.

  40. philosophicallyfrank says:

    This is another reason to do the Mass that “Sacrosanctum Concilium” called for. It would be pretty much the old Tridentine High Mass with ideal improvements and eliminating the uncalled for abuses. I believe that this is what many hoped that bringing back the “old Mass” would influence the “Novis Orde/Ordinary form. It keeps all of the reverence and glorious music as well as the increased participation of the people in the pews. It is a worthy devotion for us to be part of for God. It’s a win, win, win!!!

  41. robtbrown says:

    Fr Downey,

    Priests, especially those in a parish, are stuck in the middle these days and squeezed. Some years ago, leaving Rome, I had a conversation with an American priest who was working at the Congregation of the Clergy. I mentioned that in research for a dissertation on the priesthood of Christ I had discovered that Presbyterorum Ordinis was an inadequate expression of the Catholic priesthood. His response: Vat II wasn’t good to priests. It was about Bishops and the Laity

    (BTW, I wrote on a different topic)

    Bp Barron has done a lot of good work as a popularizer of theology. Popularizers, however, must never cross the line into their own opinions, which he did on von Balthasar’s Dare We Hope. If someone wants to disagree with St Thomas and St Augustine, a better source than von Balthasar needs to be used. And this from someone saying often that St Thomas is his hero.

    The book, BTW, is not good–von B’s arguments don’t follow.

  42. Antonin says:

    Agree in the main with Fr. John. I would add that Mr. Vogt has put his finger on a legitimate pastoral issue for Bishops. There are a proliferation of Catholics vloggers and bloggers and this is a good thing. However, the tone, substance, and style of many of these is so absent any charity and lack an authenitc Catholic spirit (by my lights and I have been Catholic over 50 years, Catholic university, Catholic seminiary, and steeped in Catholic tradtion). By that I mean I have read some blogs that make me more than cringe at the language used. I won’t name those ones out of charity but I will defend some listed. I think CM has done a service to the Church. At times, yes, they may veer into unhelpful polemics, but, in the main, I think their work on uncovering how abuse allegations are handled (and they are as hard on traditionalists as liberals in this regard) is ultimately a service.

    The narrow theological position of these sites in no way reflects the actual diversity of Catholic thought and how it has contributed SIGNIFICANTLY to the world. I think of Jacques Maritain and his contribution to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

    There are too many pressing challenges in the world and we need lay Catholics and clergy to engage in the world AS THE WORLD EXISTS TODAY.

    The integralism of the SSPX MUST be called out for what it is just as much as clown masses, etc. This is only charitable.

    I also agree that it would be a good idea for the Bishop to engage in constructive dialogue with some, but not all of these groups.

    But please lets NOT imitate the secular media (CNN, MSNBC, Fox et al.) in how to engage in dialogue across differences.

    Mr. Vogt has correctly identified an issue and he deserves credit for naming it.

  43. Tom says:

    If Brandon Vogt initiated this meeting, then I bet you that it stems from when Taylor Marshall basically calling Vogt a shill for the Catholic Bishops and Bishop Barron on Twitter since Vogt works for Word On Fire. He shortly blocked Taylor afterward and has posted critical reviews of his book (Google “Brandon Vogt Taylor Marshall”) without even reading it. I’m sure Bishop Barron is also not a fan of Taylor Marshall based on his YouTube comments.

    I liked Vogt and bought his “Read More Books Now” book but have been disappointed in his and Bishop Barron’s behavior. They have a lot more money and support for Word On Fire yet they can’t keep with a guy who operates out his garage.

  44. Semper Gumby says:

    Bishop Barron, WOF website, 29 Jan. 2020:

    “But just as John Paul II, in Ex corde ecclesiae, called for the bishops to exercise greater supervision of universities operating under the aegis of the Church, I would recommend that we bishops exercise some authority over those who claim to teach for the Church in the social media space.”

    The bishops exercising greater authority over those “who claim to teach for the Church” (wayward Catholic universities and schools, the National “Catholic” Reporter, certain clergy who encourage degeneracy, certain bishop conferences preaching socialist utopianism and leftist propaganda, the hierarchy participating in a pagan ritual in St. Peter’s, etc.) would indeed be welcome.

  45. Semper Gumby says:

    Bishop Barron, WOF website, 29 Jan. 2020:

    “I wonder if it’s time to introduce something like a mandatum for those who claim to teach the Catholic faith online, whereby a bishop affirms that the person is teaching within the full communion of the Church.”

    Thomas Sowell:

    “It always amazes me how many people there are who never seem to understand that what they have done has contributed to the consequences that followed.”

  46. md8787 says:

    Can we agree that the trad-movement has some nefarious elements? Perhaps Barron, Vogt, et. al want to support the TLM movement in a way that does not also inadvertently lend support to the some of the so-called “big names” in the trad-movement. One can love the TLM (as I do) without being a disciple of Taylor Marshall for example. There is an element of “calumny” (to use Barron’s recent term) in the trad media. You also see it in the liberal media like the fishwrap especially à la Mdm. DeFarge. But publications like the Register or Crux or CNS tend to be orthodox without calling out every this, that, and the other bishop and priest or spreading hearsay. Bp. has a wacky soteriology, but he is a sincere figure in the Church who, I believe deeply loves Christ and the Gospel. We want him on “our” side.

  47. mlmc says:

    Bp Barron is frequently attack by the left- now by some on the right. Perhaps that is a good sign. I remember a Chicago womyn ( not an unintentional spelling) posting on a “Catholic” website that she was glad he was going to LA b/c he would no longer be in charge at Mundelein seminary which she claimed was “a monster factory” b/c it turned out, what we would consider, orthodox priests under his Rectorship. His position on universalism is that it is a heresy but that “we may hope that all will be saved” best to look at his own statements (https://www.wordonfire.org/hope/). Not a terrible position- I hope that hell is near empty b/c that greatly increases my chance as well as my loved ones- I know I need help. While I hope to grow greatly in sanctity, I hope God grades with a great curve- and that the sacraments are the gateway to the easy teacher- but there is no guarantee the course will be easy. I sure wouldn’t bet on it (near universalism) nor act like it were true. Some sort of guide to the internet would be useful, but as always, the devil is in the details. Some thing like an imprimatur would be helpful- but who does it & how is important. It wouldn’t be censorship b/c it is merely approval – but it could easily devolve into a party line tool. Fr Z probably could provide some ideas of how it would/should work.

  48. Semper Gumby says:

    Antonin wrote: “Mr. Vogt has correctly identified an issue and he deserves credit for naming it.”

    No. For example, see the post above, where Fishwrap is quoted: “While neither Barron nor Vogt specifically identified individuals or organizations…”

    Tom: Your first paragraph is an incomplete review of events.

    md8787 wrote: “Can we agree that the trad-movement has some nefarious elements?”

    Vague. Faithful Catholics (i.e. not those who merely identify as Catholic such as certain politicians) are also, one way or another, traditionalists.

    mlmc wrote: “Some thing like an imprimatur would be helpful- but who does it & how is important. It wouldn’t be censorship b/c it is merely approval – but it could easily devolve into a party line tool.”

    A fair point. Given WOF’s behavior, it is likely to devolve into merely an ideological attack tool.

  49. lgreen515 says:

    Subject: Bishop Barron’s Refection on Today’s Gospel

    Bishop Barron. “Buy my book. Buy my course.”

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