A note from a reader…
Since you have posted about Cardinal Cupich’s TLM restrictions, I thought you should know that permission for 3 parishes (St. Mary of Perpetual Help, St. John Vianney, and St. Odilo) have all been denied. The only other TLM that is offered in the archdiocese by a diocesan priest is the St James at Sag Bridge Mission. I do not know if they have been permitted to continue.
This only leaves St John Cantius, St Peter’s (staffed by the Canons), and the Shrine of Christ the King.
People are sad, angry, and hurt. Please pray for us in Chicago.
Square miles… number of people… distance between places… considerations of schedule.
Such cruelty, for the sake of retaining favor.
What comes to mind…
“But for Wales?”
In the meantime, I understand that a group of the viciously treated faithful prayed the Rosary on the steps of Holy Name Catholic this morning.
The person who sent that note added:
There are also many unanswered questions regarding the Archdiocese’s failure to identify, punish and remove predator priests from ministry at the very same time that faithful priests are harshly treated with threats, intimidation and unjust removal from parishes where they have strong support from the people.
Most of you who read this are not in Chicago. Many of you might not be personally interested in attending Holy Mass in the Vetus Ordo. But surely you can recognize the unreasonable and harsh treatment of the people in Chicago, the disdain from their chief pastor. You might not be there, but that doesn’t mean you are not connected to this war against Catholic identity. You need to act because, whether the war is proximate or not, it is personal for you as well as for them.
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Let’s hope we have a conclave in 2022 and the new Pope says, “This mistreatment will stop now, or you will be looking for new accommodations.”
But Father Pfleger is allowed to desecrate the Holy Eucharist (that is if the consecration is even valid there) St. Sabina and he isn’t disciplined.
https://gloria.tv/post/hr21qLvhKjo31MDuTNVWiTZag
What I want to know, how are these decrees of Cupich being enforced? Are they nothing more than words on paper/online? As far as I know, we have not seen bishops and cardinals hire mercenaries like the police or the FBI to chase trads out the doors. Are we simply assuming that the cruel words, and words only, are enough to drive out tradition? We know from the witness of the early Church that bloody death cannot stop the flood of orthodoxy, so how hard can it be to stand in the face of simple words?
The only words that I can think of that actually would indeed be harmful are the words of excommunication. However, it seems that excommunications have never fit in with the style of the new synodal dialogue church. Again, did Consilium draft up a watered-down formula for excommunication? Again, aren’t the laws of the Church still in force, by which a powerful prelate is de facto automatically excommunicated by blatantly propagating heresy?
This is one of the major points I’d make to hold that tradition will prevail. Legislation bandied about online seems so aloof from the concrete daily reality that is the Tridentine Mass that I find it astonishing that anyone who loves the TLM could assume that such internetical words might have any binding force upon it.
How much would be indicated about the Church’s current leadership if supporters of the TLM are declared excommunicated, while supporters of abortion are not! With regard to the current matter of the TLM, I think it’s the priests who are the ones in a bind, rather than the laity; for as Fr. Z has said, there are a million things that a bishop can do to make a priest’s life unpleasant, even apart from formal punishments. Priests need the laity’s support.
In terms of repercussions for defiant clergy, though, one thing I’ve always wondered is what would happen to a bishop who defied Rome, was deposed by Rome, but refused to vacate his see? My impression, at least from my diocese, is that from the point of view of American law, the diocese is a corporation, of which the bishop is the head; does the US government have any ability to remove by force a bishop from leadership of a religious corporation? Could a bishop maintain control of all the diocesan property etc. even while Rome says he’s not the real bishop? If a bishop were to be deposed by Rome, does Rome depend simply on the bishop’s willing cooperation to step aside?
“What I want to know, how are these decrees of Cupich being enforced? Are they nothing more than words on paper/online? As far as I know, we have not seen bishops and cardinals hire mercenaries like the police or the FBI to chase trads out the doors. ”
I live in a diocese with Cupich’s best protege. No, there are no “police” that are shutting down the Masses. However, the priests are refusing to say the TLM out of “obedience” to the bishop, which in the end, has the same result. Without a priest, where do we go?
“ Since you have posted about Cardinal Cupich’s TLM restrictions, I thought you should know that permission for 3 parishes (St. Mary of Perpetual Help, St. John Vianney, and St. Odilo) have all been denied. ”
But what about the inviolable conscience of the above TLM parishioners? At the very minimum, the above communities should continue with the TLM, even if it means meeting at non-diocesan property. Did I mention “inviolable conscience”?
May the Holy Spirit intervene soon. May the papacy of Bergoglio be soon suppressed and in his place ascend a true Catholic Pope. It would be poetic justice if this turned out to be one of Bergoglio’s so-called *surprises* of the Holy Spirit.
So, Soupy has established his bona fides as Rome’s most loyal company man, the hammer of TLM devotees, the scourge of trads. By the grace of God, I don’t live anywhere near this pathetic man’s diocese, but I pray for those who do that they may be granted the strength to endure and fight this injustice and refuse to submit to it.
They could make a huge scene. Gather all the Catholic minorities and make signs in foreign languages and demonstrate in the streets. Show the secular world how they are being oppressed by the white Eurocentric patriarchy of intolerant, rigid and merciless leaders who use their alms to cover the bill of pedophile priests and their victims while denying them their religious freedom.. Start a petition asking non Catholic folks if they would agree with Cupich’s draconian decision (since he obviously doesn’t care about the sentiment of the faithful). Also publicly contacting known large benefactors and asking them to make public statements in support of his poor decision. It could get ugly very quickly, obviously the cry of the faithful doesn’t work, the cry of the non Catholic public might strike a chord. And if all else fails, sue him in a civil court, for denying your religious freedom and causing you to fall into despair and now you can’t work. I think this is the game plan that usually works from the other side lol
They could make a huge scene. Gather all the Catholic minorities and make signs in foreign languages and demonstrate in the streets. Show the secular world how they are being oppressed by the white Eurocentric patriarchy of intolerant, rigid and merciless leaders who use their alms to cover the bill of pedophile priests and their victims while denying them their religious freedom.. Start a petition asking non Catholic folks if they would agree with Cupich’s draconian decision (since he obviously doesn’t care about the sentiment of the faithful). Also publicly contacting known large benefactors and asking them to make public statements in support of his poor decision. It could get ugly very quickly, obviously the cry of the faithful doesn’t work, the cry of the non Catholic public might strike a chord. And if all else fails, sue him in a civil court, for denying your religious freedom and causing you to fall into despair and now you can’t work. I think this is the game plan that usually works from the other side lol
Felipe: “And if all else fails, sue him in a civil court, for denying your religious freedom and causing you to fall into despair and now you can’t work.”
That’s actually not a bad idea at all, in fact, it sounds like a very reasonable thing to do, at least in these USA. I think Felipe is onto something here. Any lawyers lurking here who would like to comment?
This is awful. Some of us in the Chicago area will be holding a Rosary Rally on Feb. 6, when these cruel restrictions take effect. 11am outside Holy Name Cathedral. fb://event/?id=485146729873058
Details:
Please join us for a Rosary Rally outside of Holy Name Cathedral on Sunday, February 6th from 11AM – Noon.
We will have a banner – please bring your Rosaries, and feel free to bring signs.
We will be praying for the full freedom of the Latin Mass in the Archdiocese of Chicago, especially in light of the Cardinal’s recent restrictions.
Our message to Cardinal Cupich will be: Your Eminence, why are you persecuting faithful Catholics? As Catholics in Chicago and the surrounding area, we simply desire to pray and attend the Holy Mass in the way that so many saints have done. Why are you depriving us of the Traditional Latin Mass on the first Sunday of every month? What have we done to deserve such a punishment?
This event is being organized by ordinary Catholics who love Holy Mother Church and the Traditional Latin Mass.
Today’s Gospel in the N O is appropriate (Mark 3:22-30)…who is causing separation and scattering in the Archdiocese of Chicago?
Liturgical Legos – how will the decrees to be enforced? I think that question can be answered with your answer to these questions – “Who controls the parishes’ ultimate purse strings? Who can make a parish’s life a living financial hell?” As always, follow the money and see who can choke off the supply and you’ll see how the decrees can ultimately be enforced if any rebellious peasants dare defy their master.
Time for the “Mass at the Rock”!
What I want to know, how are these decrees of Cupich being enforced? Are they nothing more than words on paper/online?
The Cardinal Soupy can remove any pastor that does not obey, and replace him with someone new. So, disobedience by a pastor is bound to have a fairly short “lifespan”.
And if all else fails, sue him in a civil court, for denying your religious freedom and causing you to fall into despair and now you can’t work.
You can indeed. But virtually no judge in the US would “interfere” with a completely “inside-the-church” problem.
Show the secular world how they are being oppressed by the white Eurocentric patriarchy of intolerant, rigid and merciless leaders who use their alms to cover the bill of pedophile priests and their victims while denying them their religious freedom
We will have a banner – please bring your Rosaries, and feel free to bring signs.
I have an idea on this: make a banner along the lines of “Cupich Is Oppressing Latinos”. People who want the Latin Mass are Latinos, right? There are over a million Hispanic Latinos in the Chicago area, I wonder how the media might react.
“Who controls the parishes’ ultimate purse strings?
Technically, the pastor does. The bishop can ORDER him to hand over all the money, but (a) that would be contrary to canon law, and (b), he might not obey anyway. But the bishop can remove a pastor and replace him. While canon law gives a pastor certain relatively limited rights against being removed without cause, a bishop claiming “he refused to comply with orders” pretty much has all the cause he needs. And the only court the pastor can appeal to is in Rome…so that’s not much help.
@TonyO
Interestingly, while it is correct that canonically and in most places civilly the pastor technically holds the purse stings. The Archdiocese of Chicago is established as a “Corporation Sole”. If memory serves this arrangement entailed an amendment to the State Constitution of Illinois (One history of the Mundelein Reign in Chicago is ironically entitled “Corporation Sole”—back in the days when the Catholic Church in Chicago was so influential, the Cardinal was issued the state licenses plate “1”!!!) This dates back to a very tenuous period in American Church history as the bishops were reacting to the problem of “Trusteeism” on the East Coast. Bishops saw how nasty property fights were getting so younger dioceses did all they could to avoid lay people holding Church property to the exclusion of the clergy and the local bishop. In some places the reaction to the issue was very extreme perhaps most notably Chicago. According to this legal arrangement all Catholic Church Property in the Archdiocese of Chicago is owned directly by the “Catholic Bishop of Chicago”. In a Chicago Church the answer to the questions “ who owns the candle sticks on the altar? Who owns the rolling chair the parish secretary sits on?” is, legally, the Catholic Bishop of Chicago-today Blase Cardinal Cupich.
Fight for it, or watch it all disappear. It’s that simple. It’s nice to appeal to “mercy”, but how much mercy did Herod have. Mercy comes into it only insofar as there is a public appeal that many are aware of. Then you have publicity on your side which can elicit mercy of whatever brand. Even tyrants want good mercy PR, and phony mercy can still provide a good outcome. But you have to put pressure on to get phony mercy.
As you say, Fr. Z, it behooves Catholics who don’t really care about the TLM to support their fellow Catholics being denied, in principle, and for practicality. Tyrants eventually harm everyone, they just may start out with a group not your own. But if you attend the Novus Ordo (mainstream “regular” Mass) you do need to concern yourself with this attack on the Roman Rite. It is your battle as well. Or it will be, sooner or later. What kind of Catholic are you, who turns his back on the attack on the Roman Rite, your Catholic heritage whether or not you value it, or the mistreatment of your fellow Catholics who merely want the Roman Rite as it has been for millennia? No one has been harmed by it. You know there is no reason to end it, that to divide the church like this by claiming you don’t want to see “division” is a nonsensical argument. Care, and help out your fellow Catholics by speaking up or at least signing petitions or at the bare least making a phone call to the diocese expressing your hope their needs can be met soon and that this is not a good look for the church, which is true.
Organize. Organize. Get as many to visibly support you as you can. Get petitions going. Think public visibility, think about how to bring in more people to support you. Be visible. Contact news media. It may come to nothing, but contact them anyway. Just holding rosary rallies isn’t going to be enough. Get online wherever you can to talk about the issue and what you want. Be respectful, get your request down to a short message that others can grasp. You need visibility and a reason Cupich will publicly look like a monster if he doesn’t give you something concrete. Right now there is no reason for him to do it. Not enough pressure. Apply pressure in whatever way you can. Pray and act. Ask for something a bit more than what is reasonable. He can then compromise and give you at least what you need. Once you identify what you want stay on it.
It may not work. His heart may have morphed long ago into a rock. But God sees your effort to retain the Holy Mass. At least you can say you fought for it.
Cardinal Cupich, what manner of bishop are you, to do this to the flock put in your care. Where is your compassion for them. You are making the Chicago diocese a negative focus of attention and treating your Catholics shamefully, which makes the whole church look bad. This is growing more obvious to American Catholics and people around the world. Francis speaks of mercy. Where is yours?
Had never heard the story about the Abp. of Chicago having had plate #1 on his car. Obviously the Church had far more influence there than here in Boston – the best Cardinal O’Connell could do in 1908 was #80 (which still adorns the present incumbent’s car) but then again he had to contend with WASP aristocracy (the “Boston Brahmins”, etc.) who craved such privileges! Meanwhile, I can think of an appropriate number plate for the present Cardinal Archbishop of Chicago: “O”
I could at least respect the decision if His Eminence insisted on strict conformance with the 1970 missal. At least one could identify a principal and respect action to enforce that principal.
However, this is what happened at Christmas 2020 at St. Sabina in Chicago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy9_lziZWxo
There are or were youtube clips showing that similar things happened at St. Sabina’s this past year.
If the 1970 Missal were the unique expression of the liturgy of the church and the bishop is to be the custodian of that tradition, where is the comparable (or any action) against those who perpetrated this at St. Sabina? Given the ownership structure of parishes in Chicago, His Eminence owns the place. Certainly, he could do something about it if he were so inclined. The only conclusion I can draw is that he is, in fact, not so inclined.
I have only assisted at a couple of Vertus Ordo masses in my lifetime. In a world where both forms of the mass were freely celebrated, I would probably stick to the Novus Ordo, but wishing that the commands of the Second Vatican Council with regard to chant were followed. However, when I see how those who long for beauty and transcendence in the liturgy are treated as compared to those who clearly violate the norms that those in charge claim to be upholding . . .
Without expressing an intemperate opinion, all I can say is that it is horribly unjust and most disheartening.
St. Pius V, pray for us.
I could at least respect the decision if His Eminence insisted on strict conformance with the 1970 missal. At least one could identify a principal and respect action to enforce that principal.
However, this is what happened at Christmas 2020 at St. Sabina in Chicago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy9_lziZWxo
There are or were youtube clips showing that similar things happened at St. Sabina’s this past year.
If the 1970 Missal were the unique expression of the liturgy of the church and the bishop is to be the custodian of that tradition, where is the comparable (or any action) against those who perpetrated this at St. Sabina? Given the ownership structure of parishes in Chicago, His Eminence owns the place. Certainly, he could do something about it if he were so inclined. The only conclusion I can draw is that he is, in fact, not so inclined.
I have only assisted at a couple of Vertus Ordo masses in my lifetime. In a world where both forms of the mass were freely celebrated, I would probably stick to the Novus Ordo, but wishing that the commands of the Second Vatican Council with regard to chant were followed. However, when I see how those who long for beauty and transcendence in the liturgy are treated as compared to those who clearly violate the norms that those in charge claim to be upholding . . .
Without expressing an intemperate opinion, all I can say is that it is horribly unjust and most disheartening.
St. Pius V, pray for us.
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Mercy Lord, have mercy on Thy people.
As it was so rightly said: “There are also many unanswered questions regarding the Archdiocese’s failure to identify, punish and remove predator priests from ministry at the very same time that faithful priests are harshly treated with threats, intimidation and unjust removal from parishes where they have strong support from the people.”
Isn’t it enough to suffer for the Faith in a world so hostile to Catholicism? Why do our own bishops inflict more suffering on people wearied by a multitude of undeserved trials?
Only a sociopath wouldn’t feel for people suffering the loss of something so beautiful as the TLM. Only a disordered mind would consider it meritorious to rob people of something good while giving free reign to priests and laity who treat the Mass (and thus the Lord) shabbily, like a buffet of whims and treats.
Enough.