There’s a bad moon on the rise

There’s this.

More from the reign of terror….

There’s this, which I received. NOTA BENE: It looks like a template. There is no protocol number, date, addressee, counter-signature of the Secretary, etc. Nonetheless…

Another turn of the screw from the governess of the dicastery.  There are specters and shades to ferret out!   They MUST be there!

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  1. maternalView says:

    What disgusts me about this whole mess is the attitude that I have to be led to the Vatican II Mass as if I wasn’t capable of discerning what I need spiritually.

    I’ve only been attending the TLM for a short time. The 1st Sunday of every month I am now forced to attend a NO mass as the TLM is not permitted on the 1st Sunday. I was raised in the NO mass so I don’t need to be introduced to it or forced to see it as if I just went I’d somehow discover it’s not as bad as I’d heard.

    It’s very clear to me that the current Church administration wants it understood that Vatican II is now the Catholic Church. A wholly new & completely different organization than the one in existence before. And if I want to participate in the Church for my spiritual welling being I better accept that.

  2. Charivari Rob says:

    I have asked a couple of people this before, but have never seen it addressed. The ‘form letter’ above raises it again.

    How can a Bishop dispense the faithful from something that doesn’t directly apply to them? It’s regulatory – orders to Bishops on how to administrate this issue. How can a Bishop dispense himself from following orders?

  3. josephaloisius says:

    I ask this sincerely, as a father of 5. At what point are Bergoglio’s actions demonstrative of heresy? Meaning, his actions indicate that he clearly does not hold the Catholic faith. Would Saint Robert Bellarmine think that God has deprived him of any office, much more so the papacy???

  4. summorumpontificum777 says:

    Perhaps the most offensive aspect of the pogrom is the alleged plan of “reeducating” TLM attendees and guiding us to embrace the Novus Ordo. It’s almost as if they think that we prefer the TLM due to some sort of mistake or misunderstanding, and that once it’s satisfactorily explained to us that as Catholics that the TLM is a bad, bad thing and that we are duty-bound to conform our preferences to those of Pope Francis, we’ll see and accept the error of our ways. It’s utterly absurd. I don’t know whether to cry or laugh when I imagine them cooking up something along the lines of the Ludovico Technique in ‘A Clockwork Orange’ in which we’re shown films of moldy food and puppies being drowned to the tune of Missa de Angelis Mode VIII.

  5. BeatifyStickler says:

    These men are cruel. I wonder if Roche saw to it that will and wishes of the Holy Father were respected with Summorum Pontificum? All I see in the Church today is a bunch of bullies concerned mostly with sodomy.
    I’m saddened by this revelation. I fear for my four sons and my daughter and the Church they will grow up in. The last time I cried was 13 years ago when my Father passed away. The news of the Latin Mass being crushed is harder to bear and I have already cried real tears over this.
    I have five siblings and we were raised as Indult kids. Latin Mass our entire lives. All of my siblings will tell you the same. If it were not for the Old Rite and the faithful preaching and clear faith taught to us, we would have all left the Church years ago. I believe in the validity of the new Rite, that is not a question. But I do know that the new Rite has been an absolute disaster for millions in my country of Canada. Empirical evidence suffices. I fear my kids will drop the faith BECAUSE they have to go to a sloppy new rite with jokes, guitars and drums, banality and ugliness.

    Jesus Mercy. Lord Save us, we perish!

  6. Cornelius says:

    They won’t rest til the TLM is crushed everywhere. I assist at an SSPX Mass, but when Diocesan TLMs are completely crushed, what will happen at the SSPX? I’ve heard the goal is to herd all the TLM folks into SSPX and then excommunicate the SSPX altogether.

    We are surely living under a chastisement sent, and permitted, by God. When will He relent?

    [Aside: when that CCR song came out when I was about 15 I always thought they were singing, “there’s a bathroom on the right” – 50 years later I still can’t unhear that.]

  7. Gab says:

    I just don’t understand why the Pope despises us and the traditional Roman RIte so much. Our traditional Catholic parish is growing very fast with many deciding they’ve had enough of the N.O. Mass and the N.O faith. It’s not like we’re spruiking at N.O. parishes and luring them to our parish. They come of their own accord.

  8. WVC says:


    As a father of 7, I would recommend not spending too much time trying to determine if the pope is a heretic and if, at what point, he loses the legitimate use of his office. That is, truly, one of those situations where the average layman is better off not trying to judge a pope. Leave that for future years and future Magisterial decrees to make sense of.

    Rather, this has been an excellent opportunity in my household to teach about the fallibility of man, the history of men failing in their obligations and leadership positions (the history of the Papacy is fraught with bad to incredibly awful popes – Bergoglio may be a different flavor of terrible, but conceptually bad popes have come and gone and far more often than the saintly popes), and the legitimate boundaries of authority. It’s an opportunity to teach the younger generation to avoid the hyperpapalism trap (something that I think will be named a heresy at some point in the future) whereby people erroneously think the pope wields “limitless” and “unquestionable” authority. Kids need to understand authority, respect authority, and be able to recognize when a legitimate authority is being abused and how best to respond to that WITHOUT simply trying to delegitimize the authority.

    We live in a world were liberals now love the pope because he pushes their agenda, “conservatives” bend over backwards to try to pretend the pope isn’t really doing or saying the bad things he’s doing or saying because they can’t reconcile the concept of a pope doing or saying bad things, traditionalists praying for some new pope to show up and solve all the problems, and sedevacantists who have practically thrown the entire papacy out the window (and I count those who thought Benedict was still pope and not Francis in the sedevacantist group). It’s cognitive dissonance on all sides!

    Better solution? We work to better understand and define the limits of papal authority (the pope can no more get rid of a book of the Bible or one of the sacraments than he can order the sun to stop rising or ban the immemorial liturgy of the Church) and recognize that a pope can abuse his authority while still being the pope, and that the solution needs to come from building structured and sound resistance against such abuse and not either abolishing the papacy or praying for the Pope Pius X the magically be reincarnated and take back the papal throne.

    Sorry – long screed, but that’s what I’m teaching my own kids. I offer it to you in case it helps.

  9. The Masked Chicken says:

    I find it sadly amusing that the Dicastery can’t even follow their own decree, since, leading the faithful towards the celebration of the liturgy according to the current liturgical books is, in fact, leading them away from the decrees of Vatican II. Okay, people in Rome: you agree we should be using Latin, right… decreed by the Council…oh, and what about chant…decreed by the Council. How about you try to lead us to celebrate according to the decrees of Vatican II when you figure out how to do it. Talk about a lack of reading comprehension. From a strictly logical standpoint, since Traditionis custodes is logically inconsistent and hence contradictory, it is impossible to follow. Since God cannot command the impossible and as this leads to a perplexed conscience, from a logical point of view, there is no command, here. I think someone should point out just how absurd this document is. It is a funny situation, in a lamentable way. I feel sorry for the Vatican if they actually think that the N. O. Mass fulfills the decrees of Vatican II. Sure, I’d love to be lead towards a Mass that fulfills the decrees of Vatican II, so, here’s my suggestion to the Dicastery…you go first.

    The Chicken

  10. Lurker 59 says:

    @Charivari Rob

    Generally speaking, because a bishop is an heir to the Apostles not a toady of the Pope. The bonds of fraternal charity are what is supposed to keep all bishops, who are brothers, on the same page, not legal dictates. This bond exists not because they love the Pope but because Christ loves them and it is His charity, and their conforming to it, that permits them to hand on the Faith whole and intact from generation to generation in union with each other. This bond of charity enables them to love the Pope even when he is a bad pope and also to love the Deposit of Faith more than they love following the will of the Pope. Bishops are going to be judged by Christ not on how closely they followed the will of a particular pope but on how closely they followed Christ’s will.


    There is a difference between material heresy and formal heresy. For the latter you need a competent authority to, in a legal fashion, declare it. The only competent authority to judge a pope is another pope, any other solution results in becoming orthodox or protestant. Only God can judge the interior of a person but we can, should, and are called, to judge the exterior actions (via charity) of a person. For example, if someone were to say that the NO is the ONLY rite of the Roman Church, while that might not be per se materially heretical, we know that it is an untruth (as there are several rites of the Roman Church) and anything that follows from that untruth is equally untrue and can be Canon #87ed.

    FYI If we recall various dictates from US Bishops from last year, they were giving around Easter 2023 as the time to stop all TLM. The later form letter look like something I saw last year — don’t know if it is old or if they are just holding off on moving things forward for a bit.

  11. hilltop says:

    Roche’s form letter is slithery.

  12. hilltop says:

    Also, keep in mind that they must eliminate the TLM before moving to change the NO Mass. hence the apparent haste.

  13. Rob83 says:

    Bishops have experience ignoring documents from Rome when they are of a mind to, Ex Corde Ecclesiae comes to mind. This kind of document is aimed at bishops and those in chanceries who have ambitions to rise to higher ecclesiastical office.

    Bishops can be encouraged by both prayer and actions to lovingly file such a document in a binder and permanently misplace it.

  14. Chrisc says:

    Summorum, per the reeducation aspect, I suspect this to be mostly an Anglophone dimension of this. In the US, Bishops like Barron constantly speak of new evangelization in terms of explaining the Faith. Surely a new pamphlet will do the trick. Maybe we need to one two punch them with beauty, then long winded explanations of why everything is way better than hunky dory. It is a whole lot of preambulatory Catechesis. (Heavy on the walking…away)

    So if this is how they speak to fallen away Catholics, it doesn’t surprise me they think the same technique is needed here. Maybe just another 20 minutes in a talk by Sue from the parish will convince trads how open and sharing the parish really is! “Have you heard about our diocesan fund raising appeal? Or what about our sponsored outreach?” Neither of these are bad, but the pitch is comparable to Michael Joncas fans – mostly tone deaf.

    Its not entirely unique to America, though. I remember being at St. Peter’s in 2015 for a Sunday Audience by Pope Francis. In very sincere tone and with much gesticulating to the crowd he said, “You! You! You! You are the Holy Catholic Church!” Cue dramatic pausing. In keeping with his age of Catholicism he thought this to be some amazingly profound point, which needed the deepest rhetorical sincerity to drive it home. I am certain he would have been happy to repeat it a dozen more times. Then everyone would have gotten it I am sure. No? Maybe more pausing would have helped.

    With reeducation, there are many acting in good faith. But they just don’t get it. ‘We just aren’t in to you’ doesn’t make any sense to them. Zero. We must have been trads from the beginning. Or maybe we were tricked into going to it. Surely it isn’t faith that has led you to a TLM!!! How do they know this? Well, if their faith is indistinguishable from 70s-80s liberalism, then rejecting Marty Haugen and mauve churches is of greater significance to them than rejecting Chalcedon. So how could the faith experienced at their monthly community bruncheon with Fr Rich and Pastor Cherie from the ELCA be the same faith as that at a TLM?

  15. redneckpride4ever says:

    The Catholic Encyclopedia (I believe of 1906) referred to Benedict IX as “a disgrace to the Chair of Peter”. Bad Popes have always existed. Vicars can be good or bad.

    Perhaps it is best to support the young priests which Francis called “rigid” (talk about the cloud calling the cotton ball white).

    They are the future and the felt banner crowd is dying off. I do not say they are dying off with any joy, all lives are precious. I say it because we all die eventually. Its simply a reality.

    When there’s virtually nothing but Traditional priests, there will be eventually Traditional bishops and so forth.

    Let’s work for the future.

  16. Fr. Timothy Ferguson says:

    Your Eminence,

    I trust this finds you well.

    I am forwarding to Your Eminence a letter received recently in my chancery. Obviously, some moron, who knows neither canon law nor theology, has somehow stolen stationery from your dicastery and has managed a passable forgery of your signature. I was not fooled, as it was impossible to think that Your Eminence lacked a basic understanding of the teachings of the Second Vatican Council on the episcopate, let alone a commitment to Our Holy Father’s commitment to a Church of Synodality and subsidiarity. Also lacking in this idiots forgery was any compassion or Christian charity, for which Your Eminence has long been known.

    I know Your Eminence will want to try and track down and deal with this stupid malefactor posthaste. If there is any further assistance I can give, I stand ready.

    In the meantime, please know of my deepest respect for Your Eminence in his onerous ministry.

    Kissing the sacred purple, I remain,
    Devotedly your in Christ,

    + Jude Noble
    Bishop of Black Duck

  17. Lurker 59 says:


    Right. You have to get TLM crowd out of the parishes before you start modifying things. They are the ones who are catechized enough and have enough of a backbone to get the rest of the parish (including its priest) to stand up for the Gospel and reject such things.

    As a convert, that is the problem that the Protestant communions had in the 90’s and early 2000 — “traditionalists” were still present and voting in their synods/assemblies/conferences and the pew sitters were still there putting pressure on voting members.

    I have said this before: Don’t think that the Orthodox are not watching.

  18. Archlaic says:

    -Divorced and remarried? “We will accompany you and assist you in discernment of your diminished culpability and this will help you convince yourself that you’re OK”
    -Dealing with SSA? “Who are we to judge? And woe to those who presume to do so! You are welcome just as you are, you’re OK and that’s something to be proud of”
    -Traditionally-oriented Catholic? “Your pride and hubris have blinded you to the many Splendors of the Renewal inspired by The Spirit and willed by The Council called by SAINT John XXIII, and lovingly implemented by SAINT Paul VI. Accommodation is not possible, accompaniment would be futile, and so in our paternal solicitude we must firmly lead you from the gloom and ignorance of the pre-Conciliar dark ages into the broad sunlit uplands of the modern liturgy which is the Church’s great gift to modern man”

  19. Geoffrey says:

    Since the promulgation of “Traditiones Custodes”, I have yet to hear of a single diocese or parish that is working on offering a regularly scheduled celebration of the Mass of St Paul VI in Latin, with chant, celebrated “ad orientem”, etc. The reasons why people seek out the old Mass are not being addressed.

    And yes, I know I only mentioned the aesthetics. Getting into a deeper discussion about the texts is not something the current powers-that-be have any interest in at present.

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  21. @Geoffrey:

    Try St. Mary’s parish in Washington, DC. It offers a sung Novus Ordo Mass in Latin on major feast days and celebrations: one or two every month. It’s celebrated ad orientem, with a men’s schola singing the Propers in Gregorian chant and a polyphonic chorus singing the Ordinary plus motets and hymns. The range of composers for the latter is impressive: Mozart, Victoria, Saint-Saens, etc.

    I realize that once or twice a month isn’t often enough, but at least the Masses are “regularly scheduled.” They also draw a fairly substantial crowd, considering that many TLM people won’t attend a Novus Ordo Mass on principle. The turnout for the Candlemas Mass on Feb. 2 was impressive, including many young people.

    I think that Archbishop Cordileone in San Francisco also schedules Novus Ordo Masses in Latin fairly regularly.

  22. Chaswjd says:

    There is a way to obey Rome and still have much of what those who love the ancient mass want. One can celebrate the mass using the Missal of St. Paul VI in Latin ad orientem. One can use the chants set out in the Gradual or Gradual Simplex, Jubilate Deo or other books of chant and no other music. Priests with good voices can chant the dialogues and the prayers. All of this is in strict conformity with the law. Is it an extraordinary form mass? No. There are differences. Is it a great solution for many that want the ancient mass? No. Does it conform to the letter of the law? Absolutely. Does Traditiones Custodes in any way regulate such a mass? Not at all.

  23. Rob83 says:


    This misses the point. I would sooner attend a vernacular version of the 1962 MR or any prior edition of the missal laid down by Trent than a Latin version of the NO. That has to do with the content of the prayers and the form of the older Mass rather than what language they are prayed in. I won’t say Latin is of no value, but it is not the main draw.

    Remember, it would be very easy for Rome to authorize vernacular editions of the 1962 Missal, the work is done. Rome will not because this is ultimately a matter of rites, not language.

  24. WVC says:

    With respect for the intention, I disagree with the “let’s figure out how to conform to the letter of the law” mentality. Seeking a Latin Novus Ordo or an ad orientem Novus Ordo while conceding the immemorial liturgical traditions of the Latin Rite is a huge mistake. If we are ever going to fight, now is the time to fight. Has 50 to 60 years of American conservatives “compromising” taught us nothing? What was considered outrageously liberal 50 years ago (i.e. homosexual marriage) is no longer even something that can be argued about in polite company today. If we allow the banning of the TLM today, in the near future the conversation will have shifted to banning ad orientem and all Latin as being “against the liturgy as decreed by V2.”

    Trying to avoid the fight is short sighted. The TLM is the firm ground upon which to make a stand. Give up that ground in pursuit of “compromise with the letter of the law” and there will be no firm ground to stand on in the future.

    And, to be clear, the attempt to ban the liturgical traditions of the Church is evil. It doesn’t matter what the intent or reasoning is – it is a great and terrible evil. Compromising with evil is not the solution. Being prudent while doing everything possible and imaginable to oppose and thwart the evil is what is called for. If there truly are no alternatives, one does what one has to do, but I hope we can all keep the goal firmly in mind – to oppose and defeat the evil, not to find a way to kick the can down the road or, Heaven forbid, cooperate with the evil.

  25. chantgirl says:

    Well, I don’t know about the rest of you, but I was a trad born into a Novus Ordo church. Felt all growing up that something was missing, and then eventually found it when I discovered my true identity as a trad. Had to sneak around with a mantilla in my purse. The men responsible for squashing the Tridentine Mass are doing violence to my true self. Bigots, the lot of them ;)

    In all seriousness, though, the malefactors in Rome should understand that they cannot rid the world of this troublesome Mass. One way or another, it will survive. We are prepared for the long siege. We remember the Arian heresy, when the laity were thrown out of their church buildings and met in secret. We remember the many governments that tried to ban the celebration of the Mass, and how they eventually collapsed and the Mass resumed. We remember saints like St. John of the Cross, who was imprisoned by his own religious brothers, and St. Joan of Arc, who died “excommunicated” by the local church authorities. They are now great saints of the church and their names of their persecutors forgotten.

    We remember the teachings of the long line of popes, not just the latest.

    We remember, and we will teach our many children to remember.

    If the Lord consents to the Passion of the Church, we will remember His Passion and Resurrection, and suffer with Him knowing that our faith is not in vain.

  26. TWF says:

    Our cathedral, which is the metropolitan cathedral of the province, celebrates a TLM Mass every Sunday at 4 PM. Obviously the priest must have the explicit approval of the archbishop. I wonder if that required a dispensation from Rome? And if not…what happens if someone decides to write to the Dicastery down the road?

  27. summorumpontificum777 says:

    Regarding the suggestion of a gussied-up Novus Ordo in the style of a TLM (chant, vestments, kneeling for communion, ad orientem, etc), I’d imagine that there’s less interest than ever in that as a possible compromise. Ironically, such an approach would have been more palatable in the Summorum Pontificum era, consistent with the Holy See’s declaration that the “ordinary” and “extraordinary” forms were functionally equivalent and of equal dignity. But now that they’re telling us that they’re not equivalent, that the NO and the TLM are fundamentally different rites, well then that obviates the possibility of the NO being an acceptable substitute. I’ll use an analogy… Suppose that I love Heinz ketchup and consider it the gold standard for ketchups. And suppose someone told me, “Hey, you know that Kirkland-brand ketchup that they sell at Costco? It’s essentially the same thing as Heinz, same recipe, same taste.” Well, then I might consider Kirkland ketchup an acceptable substitute, right? But suppose someone said, “Kirkland ketchup is the only real ketchup. And your old Heinz is, in fact, a totally different thing. Actually, Heinz is not even something that should be considered ‘ketchup’ in 2023; rather it’s really a very outdated, unhealthy, odious kind of tomato chutney that you should have no business enjoying in the 21st century.” Well, if I love Heinz ketchup, my response is likely to be, “Okay then, well, you can keep your Kirkland, and I’ll stick with my outdated, odious Heinz chutney.”

  28. Gaetano says:

    Can you feel the Synodality™?

    The “accompaniment” will continue until morale improves…

  29. robtbrown says:

    Formal heresy doesn’t need a legal declaration by a competent authority. Rather. it refers to text or speech that is free-willed, especially when the subject is aware that dogma is contradicted and persists in material heresy.

    What we have now is usually not heresy but ambiguity–text or speech that doesn’t deny dogma but doesn’t really express it either.

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  31. Imrahil says:

    Since the promulgation of “Traditiones Custodes”, I have yet to hear of a single diocese or parish that is working on offering a regularly scheduled celebration of the Mass of St Paul VI in Latin, with chant, celebrated “ad orientem”, etc.

    My parish has such a thing every Sunday, with ad orientem vernacular read Masses every weekday, and a great amount of traditional-styled extra-Mass devotion. Coincidentally, it is the parish the FSSP apostolate I chiefly attend is a vicariate of. In another Church of the same city, the Dominicans say one such a regular Sunday Mass versus populum, but the rest of all that. Both of which have solid Catholic preaching, and the rest of it.

    These things exist; it is good they do; I really happily (not grumpily, as I might attend a Mass really full of liturgical abuses I need for my Sunday obligation, but really happily) attend Mass there. But even if all New-Rite Masses were that, that wouldn’t change the fact that a Pope trying to stomp out a Catholic rite is an outrageous thing, and that coincidentally the rite he seems to be doing that to is, even without this external splendour and were it by some dispensation translated and celebrated in the vernacular, objectively better.

    – That being said, “the trad movement” does draw a great part of its appeal from these accidental things, including how the new rite is in fact celebrated; what preaching it is accompanied with; and the nice thing to have a normal sort-of-parish but entirely consisting of firmly believing Catholics, a great part of which are at least more or less devout (as opposed to normal parishes especially in the countryside where going to Church is still somewhat a societal norm; and also as opposed to charismatic groups, third orders, etc., which are – do not misunderstand me – often very fine indeed but always part of some specific spirituality, with the partial exception of Youth 2000, but I digress). Even granting easier receptiveness of grace by more reverent etc. rites, the latter would not be that much the case if the old Mass were the only Mass and that sort of people would in masses come to it.

  32. RBill says:

    OK, I am neither a smart man nor one well versed in Canon Law, but this seems contradictory.
    ” The Holy Father [via the moto proprio]… restored to the diocesan Bishops their competency…Thus it is for the Bishops to regulate the use of the antecedent Liturgy within their dioceses.”

    The document then goes on to describe that Bishops can only do it how the Holy Father says. That’s not a competency. That’s authoritative.

  33. donato2 says:

    The entire 20th Century liturgical movement that resulted in the liturgical decrees of Vatican II was misguided. The traditional Latin Mass is a spiritual and aesthetic masterpiece. It was not in need of any reform. The problem was the people (both clerics and laity), their lack of devotion, their lack faith. They blamed the Mass for their lack of devotion and faith and projected their failings onto the liturgy by failing to participate in the traditional Mass and then by injecting worldliness into the new Mass.

  34. JamesM says:

    We are told repeatedly that the Second Vatican Council, the bestest ever council, clearly taught us about the primacy of conscience.

    Surely no Catholic, ordained or lay, can be compelled to act against his conscience?

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