From a reader…
QUAERITUR:
Do you have any insights on the distinction between the Latin words “ave” like “Ave Maria” and “salve” like “Salve Regina”?
I’m teaching Latin Prayers to Catholic Schoolhouse students and one student asked about this. I did some looking up after class then remembered in the middle of the night to ask the master of Latin!
It’s a good question.
My insights are derived from memory, but also from the consultation of a solid, online dictionary… the mighty Lewis and Short… free for use. However well I could explain it, L&S will do it better.
Ave (from εὖ) is a salutation used at meeting and at parting, like χαῖρε; whereas salve is used at meeting only, vale at parting, like ἔῤῥωσο.
“Vale!” is from valeo. Upon taking your leave you say, much as we do today, “Prithee, fare thee well.” However, depending on the tone, it can also mean “Scram! Get lost!”.
Salve in effect says “Sis salvus” or as a greeting, “Bless you! Good day!” and on parting “Farewell!” You can also say to people “Satin’ salve? … Is all well (enough)?” or “Salvene? … You are doing well, I hope?”
Another point of greeting comes from the names of fingers in Latin. I wrote about this for the Collect of the 14 Sunday after Pentecost (Novus Ordo Tuesday 2nd week of Lent). What we call the index finger, the forefinger, was by the ancient Romans called the digitus salutaris. Our ancient Roman forebears used to hold up that finger when greeting each other. These days, a different finger is used for “greeting” particularly on roadways.
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… These days, a different finger is used for “greeting” particularly on roadways.
I’ve never studied Latin … but would that be something similar to digitus ingratia or digitus contumelia ?
Based on this explanation it seems that Ave = Aloha
I do not think Ave is from the Greek ?? (??) or that they are etymologically connected in any way.
Ave is, however, connected to avarus (> EN avarice). Since Ave is a form of the verb avere (= to be eager, desire) the traditional (i.e., folky) explanation was that Ave was a greeting spoke from some distance, as if to say “desire [to see / speak to me]!” There is little to support that interpretation, and even if it is true, it almost certainly was not felt by the speakers of the language during the Classical period (or by the archangel and the BVM).
Salve is, in fact, used in parting not infrequently, (cf L&S under Salveo) especially by Plautus, Terence, and in Cicero’s letters.
[OP edited comment to straighten out the Greek font.]
[For Greek, etc., use unicode. https://www.charset.org/html-special-characters]
I must say, that reference to the birdie at the end was done quite tastefully.
I also realized I should include my occasional acts of road rage in the confessional…
GHP says: digitus
I believe other terms for the middle finger are digitus infamis and impudicus.
These days, a different finger is used for “greeting” particularly on roadways.
AKA the State Bird of New York
Salve is only said at the beginning, as you said.
Also, maybe it’s just me, but maybe because “Salve” actually is still used in Italy meaning roughly “hi there” among a friend (*) or the like, or because Ave looks like the English word awe… I think Ave has more of the tough of reverentialness to it.
But that doesn’t mean Salve should not be used for our lady. The phrase, of course, is Salve regina, and you do hear a bit of the the gun salutes (which are in German called “eine Salve” von Kanonenschüssen etc.) shot in honor of Her Majesty when you say the word.
(* We Bavarians speak Latin in such a situation too, and use a word that is originally the abbreviation of the phrase “I am your obedient servant”, but that aside…)
As for the Gospel, well, St. Gabriel presumably spoke Aramaic, and we do not precisely know what he said there. But we do know what St. Luke wrote him to say. He used the classical Old Greek greeting.
A greeting which is fascinating in and of itself. Do they wish this because they have it? It would seem natural in a people living in a warm climate so close to the sea, with olive oil and wine at the ready (yes, I know, cliché and kitch)? Do they wish it because they need it, and their toil is particularly heavy? Do they wish it because they consider it ultimately important, just as we wish for health so very often because we consider that ultimately important? The Greeks may perhaps be more right than we are.
Anyway, he said: “Chaîre!”. Which means “rejoice!”.
(And someone who actually does know Greek, has not only picked up a few bits as I do, might, I suspect, add that the word that follows, “kecharit?mén?”, also has this suspicious “-chari-” in it which, while the translation we know is “full of grace“, be have rather much to to with joy as well…)