Some Vatican news notes

For big Masses with Popes the Vatican’s  Office for Liturgical Celebrations issues a booklet.  We find in the booklet for Pentecost (19 May 2024) that, in the text for the consecration of the chalice, there has been a reversion:

Thus, at least for the sake of this Sunday, the choice was made to force a a Latin word to mean something it has never meant in the history of that language because a Greek word (polloí) had been made by Lutheran Scripture scholar Joachim Jeremias to mean something it had never meant before. All this was based on Jeremias’ guess about a word Jesus might have said in yet another language read through a lens designed correct an offense to Protestants implicit in the Church’s consecration formula. That’s what ICEL did back in the 70’s, though it was corrected by Benedict XVI in the wake of Liturgiam authenticam. ICEL and others set aside the probability that Evangelists and Paul knew what they were doing and meant what they wrote (with the Holy Spirit’s help). Never mind the Fathers of the Church. Never mind the explicit teaching in the authoritative Catechism of the Council of Trent, Part II, 4, which states that the Church cannot say pro universis.

It’s Back To The Future.

In other news, the document with the new Norms of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith for proceeding in the discernment of alleged supernatural phenomena has been released. HERE It was announced on 13 May, last Monday, the Feast of Our Lady of Fatima. That immediately set of the spidey senses of molti (maybe not tutti). Some suspected that this move was designed to reduce criticism of the Holy See aroused by negative implications in the messages of apparitions. Some alleged Marian apparitions have not been positive about what’s going on. One is, of course, forced to wonder why the Mother of God would appear just to say, “Everything’s fine. Keep doin’ whatchyer doin’! You’re okay just the way you are.”

The last norms were issued by Paul VI in 1978.

Some suspected that the move was designed also to cast doubts, or undermine, previously studied and approved apparitions, perhaps because they, too, were not wholly positive about what is going on.

Indeed, the new norms do not provide for approval of apparitions or messages, etc. They merely provide for a nihil obstat statement, that something is free from error. There is to be no determination that some event is of divine origin.

As I understand the norms, the role of diocesan bishops has been attenuated.    In effect, the diocesan bishop is no longer free to make a determination on his own without, first, consulting the Holy See and, next, agreeing with what the Holy See concludes.  The bishop can investigate and so forth, but in the end his hands are pretty much tied.

Also, I read at CNA that Francis did an interview for 60 Minutes (the long-running CBS interview/investigative show).   That piece posted a tweet (yes, I know it’s X now).  Apparently this is what the producers of 60 Minutes wants us all to take away:

Conservatives are suicidal!

“Because one thing is to take tradition into account, to consider situations from the past, but quite another is to be closed up inside a dogmatic box.”

The comments under that tweet express some disagreement with Francis.

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16 Comments

  1. Ivan says:

    Well, how about the words of our Lady of La Salette?
    They’ll strongly disagree, I guess.
    And soon, very soon they’ll get some help from the tzars of MSM, who are going to ban it and forbid it everywhere under the guise of “disinformation”.

  2. marymargaretmiller says:

    Sigh. I’m so weary of this. I don’t care what Pope Francis thinks of me. I do care what Jesus thinks of me. I serve Jesus, not Pope Francis.

  3. B says:

    I don’t understand.

    This new document now means that the Vatican will no longer definitively say if an apparition is truly supernatural?

    I am trying to imagine this, say, in the context of Lourdes… so if this was applied back then it would basically just say there are no issues against faith and morals and just leave it at that?

    Kind of sounds like a slight towards God and his providence in allowing the Blessed Virgin Mary to appear from time to time to aid us.

  4. Venerator Sti Lot says:

    “Conservative is one who clings to something” – the Holy Father reminds me of Professor Quincy Adams Wagstaff’s response to Connie Bailey’s call for help in the canoe scene in Horsefeathers – but perhaps the film’s title is sufficient comment in itself.

  5. ex seaxe says:

    Does pro multis mean for all ? NO, just as hoy polloy does not mean all. BUT they both mean the multitude, as is confirmed by Lewis & Short
    multi , ?rum, m., the many, the common mass, the multitude: probis probatus potius, quam multis forem, Att. ap. Non. 519, 9: “video ego te, mulier, more multarum utier,” id. ib.—Esp.: unus e (or de) multis, one of the multitude, a man of no distinction: “tenuis L. Virginius unusque e multis,” Cic. Fin. 2, 20, 62: “unus de multis esse,” id. Off. 1, 30, 109: M. Calidius non fuit orator unus e multis; “potius inter multos prope singularis fuit,” id. Brut. 79, 274: “numerarer in multis,” among the herd of orators, id. ib. 97, 333: “e multis una sit tibi,” no better than others, Ov. R. Am. 682:

  6. ex seaxe says:

    Coincidentally I have just noticed the French say “pour vous et pour la multitude”

  7. Longinus says:

    “Conservative is one who clings to something”
    I guess poor St. Paul will now be cancelled:
    “Therefore, brothers, stand firm and cling to the traditions we taught you, whether by speech or by letter.” (2 Thessalonians 2:15)

  8. Gladiator says:

    I’ll stick with our Lady on this one. Yes, when she chastises clerics of all levels it’s because they are offending her Son. They had better take heed before they end up in the place our Lady showed the children. Our Lady has never abandoned us, even though we have often been abandoned by the “good shepherds.”

  9. EAW says:

    One can only imagine the withering comment of the late, great Father John Hunwicke on this poor translation of the words of Consecration.

  10. JonPatrick says:

    The attenuation of the role of Diocesan bishops seems to be happening in other areas besides the approval of apparitions and parallels what is happening in the secular world where more power is going to national and trans national governments and organizations e.g. the recent WHO treaty that gives them worldwide dictatorial powers in the event of an alleged pandemic. It is of course totally opposed to the Catholic concept of subsidiarity, that authority should devolve to the lowest level capable of exercising it.

  11. jhogan says:

    In the movie “Song of Bernadette”, there was an exhaustive commission to investigate Lourdes. Apparitions of Our Lady was serious stuff back then. Apparitions of Our Lord, Our Lady, and saints should be taken seriously. What is good should be kept and believed; what is not should be discarded. The key is not take them lightly or dismiss them because you do not particularly like the message. Like in the movie, the Church needs to take great pains to get apparitions right.

  12. poohbear says:

    Francis seems to fit his own definition of conservative, as he doesn’t want to see beyond his own opinions.

  13. maternalView says:

    It seems to me to be one step away from casting doubt on the whole concept of apparitions especially Marian ones since the initial announcement was on the 13th. This looks to lessen the bond between Mary and us as devotions growing out of apparitions give us another path to Mary. Just trying to separate us from the Mother of God.

    So Vatican Inc. creates another avenue of confusion. Which causes folks to become less vigilant about the care of their souls…

  14. Sandy says:

    An interview on “60 Minutes”, what could possibly go wrong?! I am personally disgusted by this and afraid to watch.

  15. AA Cunningham says:

    No doubt these latest examples of the Pontiff’s charity will soon be posted to:

    The Pope Francis Little Bumper Book of Insults

    “We have a very creative vocabulary for insulting others!” ~ Pope Francis, 19th June 2016

  16. B says:

    It occurred to me today that this is a preemptive move. Then when they push for women’s ordination or other radical things and an apparition should occur wherein Jesus or Mary contradicts their agenda, they can simply say that while the event appears to have good fruits, the Church cannot confirm that the event is supernatural. Thereby completely shutting off heaven’s criticism.

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