ASK FATHER: When confessing, do I have to hear, understand the absolution for it to be valid?

From a reader:

A confessor I go to has recently made it his practice to whisper the words of absolution while I am saying the Act of Contrition. The first time he did this I did not catch it and after he dismissed me I asked him whether or not I had in fact been absolved. He said yes and he had said the words of absolution during my Act of Contrition. Now that I know he does it this way (I can hear him whispering but don’t understand the words) I am not so put off by it, but I was wondering whether or not there is any ruling on whether a penitent needs actually to hear and understand the words of absolution for them to be effective?

No, it is not necessary for validity that you hear the form of absolution.  It is not necessary that you understand the words.

It is necessary that you confess your sins (the matter) and that the validly ordained priest with faculties says the proper words (the form).

Some priests (and this priest too) often begin to recite in a low voice or whisper the formula of absolution as soon as he has heard part of the act of contrition which expresses attrition (“I dread the loss of heaven and the pains of hell”).  This is not rare.

Leaving aside the issue of validity, Father should probably say the sacramental form (“Ego te absolvo… I absolve you…”) at the end more of the formula, clearly, when the penitent has finished the act of contrition.  In this way the penitent does not leave with any doubts about what happened.  That’s important.

If in the confessional you are in doubt about whether the priest has absolved you, by all means respectfully ask the priest before you get out of the confessional.

Remember point #15 of Fr. Z’s 20 Tips For Making A Good Confession.

And, everyone, GO TO CONFESSION!

Posted in "How To..." - Practical Notes, ASK FATHER Question Box, GO TO CONFESSION, Liturgy Science Theatre 3000 | Tagged , , ,
4 Comments

Numbers down in England and Wales

A depressing bit of news from not-too-Catholic-friendly RNS:

Roman Catholics decline in England, Wales

CANTERBURY, England (RNS) The number of Roman Catholic adherents in England and Wales fell by more than 90,000 in 2012, despite a wave of immigrants from Poland and other Eastern European countries with historically Catholic backgrounds.

Prominent Catholics say the recent wave of sex abuse scandals involving priests and children is responsible for the decline. [Prominent Catholics?  Uh huh.  I wonder which flavor koolaid they drink.  Anyone wanna guess?]

[…]

Read the rest there.  There is even some ol’ fashioned class warfare worked in.

I wonder if the real reason there are declining numbers is that people don’t hear much clear Catholicism, hard-identity Catholicism from the Church’s pastors.

Posted in Hard-Identity Catholicism, The Coming Storm, The Drill, The future and our choices | Tagged ,
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MSNBC attacks Little Sisters of the Poor as if they were the Sopranos

Via a friend who tipped me to LifeNews, I learned that the hysterico-liberal MSNBC – who feature racist bigots on their network – have this to say about the Little Sisters of the Poor.

Monday’s NOW with Alex Wagner on MSNBC started with some video footage of nuns singing songs to the elderly poor. But, judging by the discussion that ensued between Wagner and her two guests, you’d think the Little Sisters of the Poor were more intimidating than the Sopranos.

“The administration must now deal with this latest threat to the nation’s health care law: these ladies, the Little Sister of the Poor.

That was MSNBC’s Wagner, who also actually said: “It seems this administration has bent over backwards to ensure that people can exercise their religion” [which is a lie…] and, “Women’s lives are being saved by provisions in the Affordable Care Act. [?!?]

The host invited Planned Parenthood President Cecile Richards [Who else?] and former Governor Howard Dean (D-VT) on her show to discuss Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor’s decision to delay Obamacare’s contraception mandate for the religious organization the Little Sisters of the Poor, a Denver-based group of Catholic nuns who run nursing homes for the poor. Wagner, Richards and Dean didn’t seem to be impressed by these nuns’ admirable work and made it seem like the Obama administration was the victim in this case.

While Richards avoided attacking the nuns directly and instead tried to insist Obamacare would do wonders for young women, Dean didn’t seem to have any problem calling out the Sisters.

“First of all, this is an argument about whether the Sisters of the Poor have the right to force their views of religion on all their employees. [?!?] They’re trying to make this an argument about whether they’re gonna sign a paper or not. If the court should decide they don’t have to sign the paper they essentially get to force their religion on all their employees.”

[…]

Read the rest of this rotting tripe over there.

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

Posted in Emanations from Penumbras, Green Inkers, Liberals, Our Catholic Identity, Religious Liberty | Tagged , ,
22 Comments

My future job opportunity!

Now that John L. Allen, Jr. is going to leave the National Schismatic Reporter (aka Fishwrap), there is going to be a big hole to fill there. Nature… vacuum… get it?

Wither Fishwrap?

Without JAL to keep them on the edge of respectability, whither?

Quo?

I suspect they will go even farther into the deep end, get even shriller.  And with the closing of their comboxes … well… who knows what’s going on around the water cooler these days?

I sense angst.

They need someone to haul them back from the edge, don’t you think?

I am starting to think that may I should send them my CV.

Of course, my CV should include some of my very best posts. Especially those having to do with the NSR itself.

Perhaps you readers could help assemble a list of links so as to help my application process along.

Posted in Lighter fare | Tagged , ,
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Jamie Stiehm the anti-Catholic bigot columnist v. Justice Sotomayor, Little Sisters, Bishops… Catholics…

US News and Word Report went off the deep end long ago.  But this is a new low.  They picked up a syndicated Creators Syndicate column by anti-Catholic bigot Jamie Steihm.

They posted a piece which is amazing in the sheer viciousness of its anti-Catholic bigotry.

Highlights:

The Catholic Supreme Court’s War on Women
By JAMIE STIEHM [For more on who is she is, HERE. Imagine my shock to find that her addled world view was shaped in Madison, WI – 77 sq miles surrounded by reality.]

Et tu, Justice Sonia Sotomayor? Really, we can’t trust you on women’s health and human rights? The lady from the Bronx just dropped the ball on American women and girls as surely as she did the sparkling ball at midnight on New Year’s Eve in Times Square. Or maybe she’s just a good Catholic girl.

The Supreme Court is now best understood as the Extreme Court. One big reason why is that six out of nine Justices are Catholic. Let’s be forthright about that. (The other three are Jewish.) Sotomayor, appointed by President Obama, is a Catholic who put her religion ahead of her jurisprudence. What a surprise, but that is no small thing.

[…]

Sotomayor’s blow brings us to confront an uncomfortable reality. More than WASPS, Methodists, Jews, Quakers or Baptists, Catholics often try to impose their beliefs on you, me, public discourse and institutions. Especially if “you” are female. This is not true of all Catholics – just look at House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi.

[…]

Catholics in high places of power have the most trouble, I’ve noticed, practicing the separation of church and state.

[…]

The seemingly innocent Little Sisters likely were likely not acting alone in their trouble-making. Their big brothers, the meddlesome American Roman Catholic Archbishops are bound to be involved. They seek and wield tremendous power and influence in the political sphere. Big city mayors know their penchant for control all too well. Their principal target for years on end has been squelching women and girls – even when they should have focused on their own men and boys.

In one stroke with ominous implications, there’s no such thing as Catholic justice or mercy for women on the Supreme Court, not even from a woman. The rock of Rome refuses to budge on women’s reproductive rights and the Supreme Court is getting good and ready to strike down Roe v. Wade, which became the law of the land 40 years ago.

[…]

Read the rest there.

The writer is a great example of the axiom that abortion is the primal feminist sacrament.

The combox is open at USN.  

I see that many are using it.  I even saw a comment from a regular reader here.

I don’t think this would be ignored.

From the Catholic League:

Bill Donohue is asking Creators Syndicate to drop columnist Jamie Stiehm after her article yesterday; it was picked up by US News and World Report (click here to read it):

“The Catholic Supreme Court’s War on Women” is the title of what is perhaps the most bigoted attack on Catholicism that has appeared in decades by any mainstream media outlet. What set Jamie Stiehm off was Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor’s decision to stay the Health and Human Services mandate from taking effect January 1.

Sotomayor is referred to as “just a good Catholic girl” who “put her religion ahead of her jurisprudence. What a surprise, but that is no small thing.” The Justice’s decision “brings us to confront an uncomfortable reality,” Stiehm writes. “More than WASPS, Methodists, Jews, Quakers or Baptists, Catholics often try to impose their beliefs on you, me, public discourse and institutions.” She then lists, as a happy exception, Nancy Pelosi. Sotomayor, by contrast, “is selling out the sisterhood.”

“Catholics in high places of power have the most trouble, I’ve noticed, practicing the separation of church and state,” Stiehm says. “The pugnacious Catholic Justice, Antonin Scalia, is the most aggressive offender on the Court, but not the only one.” Now it seems that Sotomayor “has joined the ranks of five Republican Catholic men on the John Roberts court in showing a clear religious bias when it comes to women’s rights and liberties. We can no longer be silent about this.” (My italics.)

Stiehm also indicts “the meddlesome American Roman Catholic Archbishops” who “seek and wield tremendous power and influence in the political sphere.” Moreover, “The rock of Rome refuses to budge on women’s reproductive rights and the Supreme Court is getting good and ready to strike down Roe v. Wade….”

This is a throwback to the most anti-Catholic vitriol of the 19th century. Creators Syndicate should drop Stiehm immediately. More on this later.

Contact David Yontz, managing editor: dyontz@creators.com

UPDATE:

The Steihm column is so bad that even Fishwrap’s Michael Sean Winters found it “a stunning piece of bigotry”.

 

Posted in Liberals, Religious Liberty, The Coming Storm, The Drill, The future and our choices, The Last Acceptable Prejudice | Tagged , , ,
19 Comments

A reflection on “pastoral liturgy”

A pioneer of the Catholic blogosphere, Amy Welborn, popular before I came onto the stage, has on her site a comment or three about a Mass she experienced.

Here is the part I found most interesting.  My emphases:

When I went to Mass on New Year’s Day there, I thought about what “pastoral” means.   It’s a word with many dimensions, and there are many ways to be “pastoral.”  One foundational way is to give the people what the Church wants them to have, and not impose one’s own ideology or narcissistic personality on the ritual, whether we are ordained or lay.   It’s respectful all around.  It’s respectful of the Holy Spirit working through the Church’s tradition of prayer and worship, it’s respectful of the maturity of the people in the pews, it’s respectful of the delicate dynamic between human and divine action at work in all the Church’s life.  God works through our efforts and presence, but we have to be continually humble and discerning of when our own needs and desires are creeping into the picture and threatening to distort what is there.  When a “pastorally sensitive” liturgy turns on the opinions, tastes and likes of the celebrant, musicians and liturgy committee, you never end up with a “pastorally sensitive” liturgy.  You end up with a liturgy that – not surprisingly – reflects the opinions, tastes and likes of the celebrant, musicians and liturgy committee with, quite often, personalities, rather than ritual, dominating the proceedings.

There’s a school of formation that believed that “the people” would best experience Christ through the distinctive personality of the minister – so that the celebrant’s warm, welcoming, and personal style was key in an individual and community’s encounter with Christ.   It’s too much.  It makes an idol of that person at the center.  It opens a door to manipulation and cults of personality.   We certainly meet Christ through the love and compassion of others, but structures and rituals exist as a form of checks and balances – to minimize the chances of an attention-seeking cleric or other minister to exploit his or her leadership position, and to afford a setting for prayer so the rest of us aren’t dominated by that personality.

When I went to Mass this week, the priest, quite honestly, hardly “did anything” – from an external perspective.  He prayed the appropriate prayers – chanted most of them – without inserting his own extemporaneous remarks.  He preached.  But there were two deacons, several servers and a lot of music that was well done, but not intrusive or overbearing.  In other words, the whole thing was organic, with no one piece or person dominating.

[…]

Read the rest there.

I say…

Allow me to add that the word is pástoral and not pastóral, pástorally and not pastórally, and FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT’S HOLY not ever “pas-tó-ree-al.”

And, finally…

Pastorally sensitive liturgy?

Reason #87 for Summorum Pontificum.

Posted in "How To..." - Practical Notes, Liturgy Science Theatre 3000, Our Catholic Identity, SUMMORUM PONTIFICUM | Tagged , , , ,
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The HORROR! Fr Z’s recurring nightmare… thanks to a reader’s gift.

20140108-100043.jpgOnce upon a time I wrote here about the book I hate more than any other book… ehvur.

Today I opened up a package to find that one of you readers… you wags you… send me a copy of the hated volume by Charles Hignett, The History of the Athenian Constitution to the End of the Fifth Century B.C.!  The sender must have seen my original description of the trauma I underwent as a grad student.

Mind you, I have received some pretty creative hate mail, but this takes the proverbial baklava.

“But Father! But Father!”, some of you invasively curious are now frothing.  “Why do you hate this book so much?  Why does it give you nightmares?  Is it because you hate Vatican II?  Is it because you are a self-absorbed promethean neopelagian?  What other books do you hate so we can send those too?!?”

Very funny.

For your opportune knowledge I hereafter append the post in which I explained the whole sordid episode that left me scarred for life beyond recognition.  Originally posted in 2011.

____

While visiting a priest friend, the mighty Fr. George Welzbacher of St. Paul, one of the 5 smartest men I know and owner of nearly every book ever written, I took my ease of an evening in a comfy chair surrounded by a tiny percentage of said books and in pleasant conversation involving many and polysyllabic words.  Ice and scotch tinkled in the glass.  Wit and word-jousting abounded.

And then it happened.  It was a moment so harrowing as to bring me back to the brink of a long-escaped but not forgotten black hole on the edge of Delta Quadrant.  As I write, my throat constricts.

There in my comfy chair, taking my ease, Fate struck.

I innocently turned slightly to my right, as is my wont, and I spied it.  The Enemy Book.  The Book which caused me more suffering, more irritation and anxiety than any book I have before or since encountered.

I hate some books.  I really hate this book.

20110815-095206.jpg

Leap back with me three decades.

I was a grad student in the Classics Department and for my black sins I had to take also ancient history courses from, yes, the History Department.  Therein we poor grads found an Ogre of a prof – of Irish extraction, by the way, which has tainted me in regard to that Island ever since, who announced above his mustache-less beard on the first day of class that he detested grad students from the Classics department, didn’t want them in his classes, and that he was determined to make our lives a living hell.   He openly opined, smiling malevolently over the cringing, puling, now whey-faced undergrads, that we would never get a decent grade out of Himself.

He wasn’t kidding.

And thus we come to The Tale of Gradstudent Zuhlsdorf and The Book of Loathing and Scorn.

The prof, as lethal and relentless as Species 8472, assigned us one book after another to read and review.  And he was brutal.  These weren’t fluff pieces.   Fine.  We did it.   We were graduate students, after all, used to hardship, inured to abuse, seasoned in pain, suffering, humiliation.

Then, toward the end of the quarter, he wrote upon the board…

Hignett, Charles. A History of the Athenian Constitution.

O the black grief of the world.

He, Prof. Species 8472, had – with his stupid little beard – checked out any and all copies from the campus libraries.  He knew also that the other schools in town did not have it.  He’d had a plan, you see.

It was like a movie about a spaceship with a self-destruct thing that had to be switched off while battling the monster.

We all searched.  In vain did we search.  We searched, before you ask, both high and low.  There was no chance, back in the day, of getting things from other large universities… and no time, such was his malevolent plan, long in the devising, deep in treachery, deadly in execution.  This was the age before amazon.com and Google.  And there was no time.

Finally, I despairing went to the Law School Library and asked, nay rather, grovelled before the librarian much as Aeneas consulted Cumaean Sibyl.  The prof had their copy,  and if only they would… re… re… recall the book, then we students could…. defeat the black-hearted Fiend.  No dice.  However, there came a ray of comfort from out the light-devouring singularity.

What Prof 8472 didn’t know, and what the librarian did know, is that the Law school had acquired a law library still in boxes and in storage.  We found the catalogue and determined that in the myriad boxes was, in fact, Charles Hignett’s Tome of Despair.

I was permitted to hunt.

Xenophon would have cowered before this march through mounds of boxes.

I searched until my hands cracked and bled from the drying effects of cardboard.  I breathed dust which I am still coughing up decades later.  Had I known of the maledictory psalms in those dark days, O the sorrow and woe, I would still have them memorized now.

Then…. I came within sight of the sea.  I had found it.

Charles Hignett’s A History of the Athenian Constitution… was mine.

I wept.  I exalted.  I danced a jig.  I photocopied every damn page.  Copyright?  Pffft.  This was war.

In my true entrepreneurial spirit I then sold copies to my fellow grad students.

In truth, I think they would have given me promises of their first born children or endless supplies of their own blood for a glimpse, yea even a saving touch, much less the Hated Book Itself.  My demands were actually quite modest.

Who can guess what substance abuse the others engaged in to get it read and the summary written?  For my part, I replaced my blood with coffee and, having propped up the book on a chair, knelt on my sweat-soaked hardwood floor with arms in cruciform and a notebook on the seat in front of me just to get through one soul-annihilating page after another.

We all turned in our papers on time.

History Ogre 8472 said, I am not making this up, “I shall not send you to hell”.

We received passing grades for our full, conscience and active participation in that hated class.

Charles Hignett’s A History of the Athenian Constitution.

Posted in Classic Posts, Lighter fare, Linking Back | Tagged ,
25 Comments

Your Special Events (Masses… Walk For Life…)

Lately many people have written by email saying “Father! Advertise this!  Father! Advertise that!”

I can’t do that.

However: here is a place where you can post your news of events, such as Masses coming up.

Have at.

Posted in Events |
8 Comments

Drought in California? ¡Vaya lío! Revive the Oratio Imperata, traditional public Processions

At Catholic Vote I saw an entry about how the bishops of California are praying for rain. It’s pretty dry out out there on the Left Coast.

SACRAMENTO Catholic bishops called for divine intervention Tuesday as California endures what appears to be its third straight dry winter.

The California Conference of Catholic Bishops asked people of all faiths to join in prayers for rain as reservoirs in the state dipped to historic lows after one of the driest calendar years on record.

Some cities already are restricting water use, while prospects for another dry summer have raised alarm about agriculture and wildfires.

The first Sierra Nevada snow survey of the winter last week found the water content in the statewide snowpack to be just 20 percent of average for this time of year. Without relief, state water managers said they will be able to deliver just 5 percent of the water sought by agencies that supply more than 25 million Californians and nearly a million acres of irrigated farmland.

Sacramento Bishop Jaime Soto, president of the bishops conference, suggested a prayer for God to “open the heavens and let His mercy rain down upon our fields and mountains.”

[…]

I don’t know about asking “people of all faiths” to pray for rain, but I do know that in the Rituale Romanum there are prayers for same.  In the older Missale Romanum there are prayers for rain.

In the Rituale Romanum under the section for processions for Rogation Days, there are directions for a procession to implore rain, including:

God, in whom we live and move and have our being, grant us rain in plenty, so that as we amply experience your gifts of the present time we may all the more confidently desire those of eternity.

Grant, we beg you, almighty God, that we who put our trust in you in this affliction may ever be shielded from all adversities.

Lord, give us, we pray, a plentiful rainfall, and graciously pour out on the parched earth moisture from the heavenly vaults; through Christ our Lord.

When we have great need, let’s take it to the streets.

Let the bishops of California organize public processions to pray for rain.

And don’t just make it up: use the Church’s time honored rites! They have already been composed.  Just Say The Black and Do The Red.

In the older Missale Romanum there are prayers to be used in Mass to beg for rain, Ad petendam pluviam.  Here’s the Post Communion: Da nobis, quaesumus, Domine, pluviam salutarem: et arideam terrae faciem fluentis caelestibus dignanter infunde.  (Yes, I know that there are also prayers in the newer, Novus Ordo book.  I didn’t fall off the turnip truck yesterday.  I say: Use the older books!)

Were I a diocesan bishop I would bring back the custom of the Oratio Imperata, obligatory prayers to be added to Mass having specific petitions in time of great need.  Time of drought was such an occasion.

Let us not fall into the trap being set for us by the secularist and liberal enemies of religion in the public square and, more specifically and virulently, of the Catholic Church.

Sure, ask people to pray for rain.  That’s nice and private.  Ask them even to pray together in churches.  That’s okay.  What more?  Take it to the streets.  Take it to the fields, as our forbears did.  Watch the public groundswell that follows.  Your Excellencies, in California, with your large Hispanic population dependent on the growth of crops, wouldn’t there be a turn out in vast numbers with you on the highways and byways?

Do it the old way.  And make a little lío while you’re at it.

Posted in "How To..." - Practical Notes, Hard-Identity Catholicism, Liturgy Science Theatre 3000, Look! Up in the sky!, New Evangelization, Our Catholic Identity, SUMMORUM PONTIFICUM, Wherein Fr. Z Rants | Tagged , , , , , , , ,
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D. Trenton: Guardians of the Altar

Watch the libs have a spittle-flecked nutty about this one!

I see that at the Cathedral of the Diocese of Trenton, where Bp. David O’Connell reigns, there is a group called the “Guardians of the Altar”.  This, according to the diocesan newspaper’s site The Monitor.

Guardians of the Altar welcomes new members

As the Mother Church of the diocese, St. Mary of the Assumption Cathedral, Trenton, is where special Masses and liturgies such as ordinations of priests and deacons, the Chrism Mass and Rite of Election, [Which are indeed special, are usually well-publicized and frequented.] are celebrated by Bishop David M. O’Connell, C.M.

Given the nature of such celebrations, it is only fitting that a special group of altar servers are commissioned to assist in such celebrations and services.

In 2011, Msgr. Joseph Roldan, cathedral rector, and Julio Alvarez, parish director of religious education and formation, formed the Guardians of the Altar program to train high school-aged boys to serve during Masses celebrated by the Bishop and other special services in the cathedral. [Okay, so they are a cadre of well-trained altar servers… too.]

“They are, what we call, the elite of the servers,” said Alvarez, who coordinates the Guardians.

The initial class of Guardians consisted of five young men, followed by an additional three who were installed in 2012. The most recent cohort, installed in December, had seven young men, bringing the size of the entire group to 15.

Different from the traditional altar servers of the parish, [Whoa! I hope these guys are also trained in the Extraordinary Form.  If not why not? How “elite” are they?] Guardians are trained to assist during celebrations with Bishop O’Connell, which can have varying traditions and rituals as well as a significant number of priests and deacons who are joining the bishop at the altar.

“The group is specifically (trained) to serve the bishop when he is here for Mass in the cathedral and any (other) special Mass in the cathedral,” said Alvarez.

Members of the order, who have previously served as traditional altar servers before joining, participate in quarterly trainings, as well as periodical retreats. [During which they read liturgical publications, right?] The members are also involved in the parish youth group, Alvarez said.

Beyond the practical training involved in helping them to assist during special celebrations in the cathedral, the order has a spiritual formation component as well.

“The group is geared towards vocations as well, so we try to talk to them about that,” said Alvarez.

[…]

Read the rest there.

Fr Z Kudos to Msgr. Roldan.

Young men like and need this sort of thing.  They. Just. Do.

However, I would suggest another dimension.

Serving at the altar is of great importance.  Making sure that nothing else but worship is done at the altar during Mass is also important.

From time to time some loonyburger disturbs religious services.  For those of you who are off your meds and contemplating such a thing, remember: in most places it’s illegal and you can be prosecuted.  I digress.  You may recall that recently a mostly naked idiot jumped up onto the altar of Cologne Cathedral during Christmas Mass.  Class act.

I have opined that bishops and priests ought to be thinking about how to handle these situations because – mark my words – they are going to be more common.  They will probably also get more violent.  Satan is on the prowl, friends.

When these incidents ooze up out of the filthy mud of diabolical activity or the sad mire of mental disturbance, the suggestion has been raised on this blog that a corps of men ought to be engaged to keep an eye on what’s going on in church.  They can assist if something goes amiss.

They could be off-duty LEOs and former military.  Some could (and probably should) be armed.  Perhaps some training in, I dunno, Judo? Aikido? Dare I suggest … Kendo?  I digress.

We read of horrible, sometimes heartbreaking, stories about someone shooting up a church.  Assailants are far less likely to attack a place wherein they know that someone is likely to be armed and ready for a problem.

I never want – never again – to hear of any sort of attack on people or on the sacred mysteries in a church.

Mai più. Never again!  More Guardians of the Altar!

In the meantime, here are two POLLS I posted some time ago:

Does an all-male sanctuary foster vocations to the priesthood? (Revisited)

View Results

And…

Does female service at the altar harm or suppress vocations to the priesthood?

View Results

UPDATE:

The spittle-flecked nutties have commenced!  Über-liberal US Catholic has a froth underway.

Posted in Brick by Brick, Fr. Z KUDOS, Just Too Cool, Liturgy Science Theatre 3000, Our Catholic Identity, Semper Paratus, The Coming Storm, The future and our choices, The Last Acceptable Prejudice | Tagged , , , , ,
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