In San Jose: “Tridentine” oratory

Attitudes are shifting.

Tridentine Mass returns to San Jose Diocese

From the Free Republic site:

Not just a Tridentine indult Mass, but a full-fledged oratory authorized to administer all the sacraments according to the traditional Latin Rite has been established in Santa Clara.

… at the Oratory of the Chapel of Our Mother of Perpetual Help, located at 1298 Homestead Road in Santa Clara, telephone (408) 248-4330.

The oratory will function under the supervision of the Institute of Christ the King, Sovereign Priest, a worldwide foundation of priests founded in 1990 exclusively to celebrate the Mass and sacraments according to the 1962 Missale Romanum.

FacebookEmailPinterestGoogle GmailShare/Bookmark

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
This entry was posted in SESSIUNCULA. Bookmark the permalink.

25 Responses to In San Jose: “Tridentine” oratory

  1. B. says:

    That seems to be an independent chapel (see below) going Indult. Is that a first?

    Tridentine Mass/Latin Mass: Notice

    Members of the Catholic Community have been confused by claims recently made regarding the celebration of the Tidentine Latin Mass at a chapel in Santa Clara: The following statement has been released to help clarify the situation.

    Beginning this past Spring, the “Traditional Roman Catholic Mission Chapel of Our Mother of Perpetual Help” on Homestead Road in Santa Clara has been the site of celebrations of the sacraments according to the pre-Vatican II (“Tridentine”) rites of the Church. This has been done without the knowledge or permission of Bishop McGrath.

    The chapel advertises itself as “an Ecclesia Dei Sanctioned Roman Catholic Chapel.” While this would seem to be an indication that the work there is sanctioned by the Roman Catholic Church, it is not. Only the bishop of a diocese can authorize the public celebration of Mass according to the Missal of 1962 (Tridentine Latin Mass) or any Roman Catholic rite other than the revised liturgy of the Church.

    Bishop McGrath has not given this authorization; the celebrations of the Mass at Our Mother of Perpetual Help and any other chapel making the same claims are illegal, according to the law of the Roman Catholic Church (canons 838 & 839). For this reason, Roman Catholics are asked not to participate in these Masses. Currently, the only authorized celebration of Mass according to the Tridentine rite is a monthly Mass at Our Lady of Peace Parish in Santa Clara.

    Diocese of San Jose, Msgr. Fran Cilla, Vicar General

  2. Woody Jones says:

    I see from the ICRSP web site that the chapel has now been regularized within the diocese of San Jose, and the bishop placed it under the care of Fr. Wehner, the ICRSP priest in Oakland, with the former priest in charge as the curate. If I am not mistaken, this was done at least once before, in Ohio. And of course there is the whole Apostolic Administration of St John Vianney in Campos. So it does happen.

    Any motu proprio sightings, Father?

  3. Flambeaux says:

    I believe it’s also happened in Canada somewhere, but I have no firsthand knowledge.

  4. RC says:

    IIRC, an independent chapel in New Jersey was regularized some years ago too: a happy outcome.

  5. PMcGrath says:

    This is very interesting.

    FYI: I am no relation to Bp. McGrath, though I share his last name.

    Bp. McGrath (see his Wikipedia entry here) has a track record of hostility to Tradition. A group called St. Joseph’s Men, which is somewhat ultra-traditionalist (see their site), has criticized Bp. McGrath for this record.

    I do know this, though: I did visit San Jose some years ago, and the one parish that I attended was a hot-bed of liturgical abuse.

    This brings up an important question: For the good of the whole Church and the reform of the reform, should the TLM be in its own parishes, or incorporated into the schedule of N.O. parishes? I think the latter. With a separate Tridentine parish, a die-hard Trautperson-Pastor can order faithful Traditionalists, “Go play in your own sandbox.” And the laity from the N.O. parish will have no opportunity to interact with the Pian Rite. Comparison-shop, if you’d like.

    By comparison, if the 10:30 N.O. Mass is followed by the 12 noon TLM mass, ordinary worshipers can compare. And a lot of people will see the TLM, see the N.O., and think of the latter, “This is the best we can do?

    This will speed up acceptance of reform of the reform.

  6. Canticle of Deborah says:

    The Chapel belongs to Fr. Ottonello who has a celebrant from Rome. For years Bishop McGrath pretended he didn’t exist. I don’t know what occurred to change this. McGrath is no trad, but he does have a lot of trad competition in the San Jose diocese. Maybe he decided to get on board with BXVI and get a piece of the pie. He kicked the FSSP priest from Sacramentio out who had been offering an indult at Our Lady of Peace once a month. Insiders speculate ICKSP wanted full territorial rights within the diocese. The chapel is quite small. It will be a full trad parish with both Fr. Wiener and Fr. Ottonello offering Mass and Sacraments. If attendance increases as expected, they’ll have to move to another location.

  7. Canticle of Deborah says:

    **IIRC, an independent chapel in New Jersey was regularized some years ago too: a happy outcome.**

    Depends who you talk to. 2/3rds of the chapel did not see it as a happy outcome and left.

  8. dcs says:

    B. writes:
    That seems to be an independent chapel (see below) going Indult. Is that a first?

    No! There are at least four others that spring to mind: Our Lady of Fatima in Pequannock, NJ; St. Joseph in Richmond, VA; Mater Ecclesiae in Berlin, NJ; and St. Anthony of Padua in West Orange, NJ.

    PMcGrath writes:
    This brings up an important question: For the good of the whole Church and the reform of the reform, should the TLM be in its own parishes, or incorporated into the schedule of N.O. parishes? I think the latter. With a separate Tridentine parish, a die-hard Trautperson-Pastor can order faithful Traditionalists, “Go play in your own sandbox.” And the laity from the N.O. parish will have no opportunity to interact with the Pian Rite. Comparison-shop, if you’d like.

    By comparison, if the 10:30 N.O. Mass is followed by the 12 noon TLM mass, ordinary worshipers can compare. And a lot of people will see the TLM, see the N.O., and think of the latter, “This is the best we can do?”

    This will speed up acceptance of reform of the reform.

    It may look good written out here on the Internet but it doesn’t work this way in practice. I’ve assisted at TLMs in which the church building is shared by a regular Novus Ordo parish or mission and the two congregations by and large don’t mix. Of course part of the problem is that TLMs are often scheduled at inconvenient times when the church building is shared with an N.O. parish.

    An additional issue is that most traditionalists want all the Sacraments in their traditional forms, not just the Mass. And frankly most N.O. parishes don’t have the knowledge or time to do it.

  9. Augustine says:

    Watching priests from the Institute of Christ the King say Mass is an incredible experience. I’ve never seen any priests come close to their rubrical precision. There new apostolate is good news.

  10. Guy Power says:

    He kicked the FSSP priest from Sacramentio out who had been offering an indult at Our Lady of Peace once a month.

    When did this happen? I missed the FCCP Trid Mass on First Saturday this month, but went the month prior. This must be a very recent development. I wonder if the good Bishop did not want TWO groups of Triddies in his bishopric?
    I’m going to the Oratory of Our Lady of Perpetual Help in the next few hours for their first Sunday 5:30pm Mass. Thankfully, this church also is but a few minutes from where I live.

    I was really surprised to hear this Oratory was given the Indult because, as reported above, Bp. McGrath is one of those more progressive bishops (I’m sure you heard about the Aztec dancers at Confirmation a few years back … and he has a Vestal Virgin-type litergical dance troupes). His basilica is in the round with conference chairs — no
    kneelers, Crucifix on an alcove along the West wall, and the Tabernacle behind where the old High Altar once stood.

    Thank goodness, though, he did give Indult to Our Lady of Peace Church. It is disturbing to hear that he’s removed permission for the FSSP.

    I went to the Novus Ordo Latin Mass on 12/23 (Sat) only to find the IVE no longer conduct it in Latin. When I asked Father what happened, he stopped because the congregation did not respond (maybe because we were used to it being chanted, not spoken). Then he mentioned a new Trid parish was being erected in the near future. I suppose the Oratory is what he was talking about.

    Oh well — I still count my blessings! To now have a weekly Tridentine Mass in wonderful news.
    I hope Bp. McGrath is getting on the bandwagon and will tighten up some of the other churches that might have strayed too far. Then again, it might just be a way to concentrate the Triddies; thus removing him from the microscope.

    Time to get ready for Mass!!

    I’m so lucky!I’m so lucky!I’m so lucky!I’m so lucky!I’m so lucky!I’m so lucky!I’m so lucky!

  11. PMcGrath says:

    it might just be a way to concentrate the Triddies; thus removing [them] from the microscope.

    That’s his plan, Guy.

  12. dcs says:

    Canticle of Deborah writes:
    Depends who you talk to. 2/3rds of the chapel did not see it as a happy outcome and left.

    It also depends on what chapel one is referring to. There are 3 “regularized” trad. chapels in NJ.

  13. Canticle of Deborah says:

    dcs,

    I’m talking about Fr. Wicken’s old chapel.

  14. Canticle of Deborah says:

    Guy,

    His treatment of the FSSP IS disturbing. The Indult at OLOP has been pulled. The January Mass was the last one. I have heard a rumor, unconfirmed, that the FSSP will now go to Fresno. That’s good for them because I know they’ve been asking for a FSSP priest for years.

    I can’t figure out McGrath’s motives. He has the SSPX in his backyard so he has some intense competition. This is probably politically and financially motivated. As you say, McGrath is no trad.

    **Oh well—I still count my blessings! To now have a weekly Tridentine Mass in wonderful news.**

    You might want to double check, but I think you will have daily Msses.

  15. Canticle of Deborah says:

    Msses = Masses

  16. dcs says:

    Canticle of Deborah writes:
    I’m talking about Fr. Wicken’s old chapel.

    I had figured as much, but it wasn’t quite so clear which chapel the original poster was referring to.

  17. Guy Power says:

    Well, I just returned from the Oratory; the Mass was from 5:30 – 7:00 pm. The Mass was nice and very reverent, but there were problems with “staging” due to the small size of the chapel. Just eyeballing it, the inside is about the size of a racquetball court: about 20’x20′ including the Altar!! There are two columns of 6 pews, each seating about 5-6 people; around 60-72 people.

    There will be a space problem if Bp. McGrath wants all diocese Triddies to attend only the Oratory. Our Lady of Peace’s once-monthly Mass attracted perhaps 150 people, if not more. I don’t know where they will all be accomodated if everyone wishes to attend. Tonight was full.

    As far as the Mass goes, was the first time I saw/experienced a Mass begin with the Asperges Me, and
    actually incorporate the Last Benediction (at OLOP’s Trid this was not done). Tonight was also the first time I saw the Monstrance held above and presented to the congregation in three directions: left center, and right. Tonight’s Mass, even with the few small “blocking” mistakes, was very moving.

    I will continue to support the Oratory of Our Lady of Perpetual Help.

  18. Canticle of Deborah says:

    **The Mass was nice and very reverent, but there were problems with “staging” due to the small size of the chapel.**

    You’re right. There is going to be a huge problem with space and it will come sooner rather than later. I’ve heard estimates of attendance at the OLOP Indult of around 200. Given a full-time trad chapel I think these numbers will explode. If McGrath was hoping to marginalize trads he miscalculated. He will have to move the Oratory to one of the bigger empty churches soon..

  19. Guy Power says:

    Deborah,

    He has the SSPX in his backyard so he has some intense competition. This is probably politically and financially motivated. As you say, McGrath is no trad.
    When I first read the flyer passed out (copied in the first response above), I thought Bp. McGrath was talking about SSPX — and I could understand his caution to the diocese; HOWEVER, hearing his comments were directed towards ICRSP makes me wonder what he’s so afraid of? Sheesh …. he’s not even close to 75 years old (said with all due respect to his office).

    You might want to double check, but I think you will have daily Masses.
    Yes, Father mentioned that tonight. Thank you for mentioning that fact.

  20. Guy Power says:

    An advantage of such a small chapel (being positive, here!) is that when the people respond and sing, it is very noticeable; the sound is really concentrated. At the larger church (Our Lady of Peace), it didn’t sound like the entire congregation were responding/singing.

    Also, not a single cell phone rang! In three years, this is the first Mass I’ve attended where (1) children didn’t squirm & cry, and (2) no cell phone beeped.

    One stage at a time.

  21. Canticle of Deborah says:

    **HOWEVER, hearing his comments were directed towards ICRSP makes me wonder what he’s so afraid of? Sheesh ….**

    Guy, I think we are getting into politics and fine point legalities. Originally it was Fr. Ottonello’s chapel. He has a celebrat from Rome. He began offering the Old Mass in the area without communicating with the bishop. I think that’s where some feathers got ruffled. Then some older diocesan priests began helping Fr. O out. I think the situation went beyond McGrath’s control and the best way to contain it was to bring in Fr. Wiener ICKSP from Oakland. He is now technically in charge with Fr. O in residence. See how there is suddenly no problem with Fr. O offering Mass and Sacraments?

    All this politicking and chess playing behind the scenes makes me crazy.

    Ultimately though, I’m happy there is another trad resource in the area. Congratulations :-)

  22. John B says:

    The fact there is now a full oratory in the San Jose diocese is what I
    consider a minor miracle considering Bp. McGarths track record. Even though
    I havent lived in the Nor Cal in a few years, I think with 4 mases at this
    tiny chapel, especially once it has its own full time ICK priests, the number
    of parishoners will explode, and will have to find a large venue.

  23. techno_aesthete says:

    Canticle of Deborah writes:Depends who you talk to. 2/3rds of the chapel did not see it as a happy outcome and left.

    Dcs writes:It also depends on what chapel one is referring to. There are 3 “regularized” trad. chapels in NJ.

    Canticle of Deborah writes:I’m talking about Fr. Wicken’s old chapel.

    A large part of the group that left St. Anthony’s when it was regularized had left Our Lady of Fatima when it was regularized. They apparently didn’t “see it as a happy outcome” when either chapel was regularized. They now have their own independent chapel.

  24. dcs says:

    techno_aesthete writes:
    They now have their own independent chapel.

    Apart from the SSPX chapel?

  25. techno_aesthete says:

    dcs, No. After I left my comment, I realized the chapel was affiliated with the SSPX and I should have worded my response differently. It is still independent in the sense that it is independent of the archdiocese and Rome.