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Fr. Z is Moderator of the Catholic Online Forum and the ASK FATHER Question Box. The WDTPRS columns appear weekly in The Wanderer. Fr. Z lives in Rome, though he is often in the USA. He is available for retreats and conferences. E-mail
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  • 23 July 2007

    Tulsa World on older form of Mass - YEEHAH!

    CATEGORY: SESSIUNCULUM — Fr. John Zuhlsdorf @ 5:22 pm

    An interesting take on the older form of Mass is found on Tulsa World.com in a story by Michael Overall.  As usual, my emphases and comments.

    Reinstated Latin Mass will reduce nonsense

    by: MICHAEL OVERALL World Staff Writer
    7/23/2007

    One priest wore an orange wig with a red clown nose and performed magic tricks during the homily.  [Okay… in medias res, is it?  I’m engaged.] In another video, people brought their pets to church for a K-9 Mass, where dogs surrounded the altar while the priest consecrated the Sacred Host.

    Don’t throw pearls before swine, the Bible tells us. But it doesn’t say anything about Labrador retrievers.

    Thank God, I’ve never seen this kind of silliness in my own church, but only on YouTube, where traditionalist Catholics have put together a "Hall of Shame" for liturgical abuse.

    Another video shows several parishioners leaving in disgust as a nun—at least, allegedly a nun—dances down the aisle in a leopard-print leotard.

    I wouldn’t have walked out of that service. I would’ve run. God doesn’t send down hellfire and brimstone often, but when it comes, it comes fast.

    Ecumenical foolishness: Buffoonery, of course, is not a uniquely Catholic sin. I was backstage once at a non-denominational "worship center."

    The word "church," you know, sounds too churchy. We have convention centers and sports centers and shopping centers, so why not "worship centers?"

    The stage hands wore headsets to get cues from a director in the sound booth.

    "Spot lights on three . . . two . . . one. Now the smoke machine!"

    It was like Jesus on Broadway. Or more like Jesus in Branson, Mo. "America’s Got Talent," and so does the congregation.

    Did the disciples give a standing ovation after the Sermon on the Mount? Did St. Paul use dry ice when he preached to the Corinthians?

    But I was never more tempted to leave a church service than in Waco, Texas, where I lived after college. New in town, I went to the parish nearest my apartment, and I didn’t notice the sign out front was in Spanish.  [Here we go!]

    Mass is an interactive ritual—the priest speaks; you respond.

    It helps to know the language.  [Got your attention yet?]

    I could’ve slipped discreetly out the door. But the mysterious beauty of the service—a modern Mass, but celebrated with old-fashioned solemnity—kept me in the pew.  [HUH??  What about… about… understanding the language?]

    This must have been something like going to church before the reforms of Vatican II, when you could understand what was happening even if you couldn’t understand the words.  [Threw a curve, didn’t he?]

    The fragile wisp of incense. Sunlight filtered through stained-glass. A hushed reverence as the priest lifts the bread over his head. The silence broken by a crystal-clear bell to announce that Christ himself has come to us.

    I didn’t need to hear it in English. I knew to get on my knees.  [There is a lot of foolishness out there on the part of the left that people must (nearly under threat of force) understand every word.  They forget that Mass is a mystery.  Understading that… that it is a mystery is the biggest step.  Understanding the words?  What if you are deaf and blind?  What if you don’t know the language?  What if you are, well… not too bright or not very well educated?  You can still understand the mystery.  Do people need to know every word?  Just start asking after Mass what the Second Reading was.]

    Back to the future: [Hey!  Did this guy listen to my last PODCAzT?] This month, Pope Benedict XVI issued a papal decision that will make the old Latin Mass more widely available around the world. The pope doesn’t want to drag the church back to the 1950s—Latin will remain an exception, and the vernacular will remain the rule.

    Instead, I think, the pope wants to use the old liturgy as a kind of fertilizer, [Not the analogy I would have chosen.  I think spreading fertilizer is what the nun in the leopard leotard was doing.]  sprinkling a little Latin through the church to nourish a sense of wonder.

    Or rather, he wants it to be a kind of poison, a weed-killer, [Okay… this is the analogy he really wanted to set up, I guess.]  to uproot the childishness that has been disgracing too many parishes in recent years.

    Clowns behind the pulpit. Nuns in leotards. Worshipers bringing Fido with them. And some critics are worried that Latin will distract people?  [Years ago, I had a discussion, polite on my part, with a sacristan at St. Peter’s.  He objected with vigor and threats that the older form of Mass would "confuse" people. I proceeded to ask him how that was possible in a building where each morning you could find Mass in a dozen different languages, by priests who seemd to know a dozen different versions of the Novus Ordo, in a building where you could find Ukrainians singing their Liturgy, Latins stumbling around like dolts, and Syro-Malabar priests dressed in pink chifon and gold lamé, in a building where if a priest says Mass in Latin with the Novus Ordo, people can generally make all the responses in Latin except for  the novelities of the Novus Ordo, such as the response after the Mysterium Fidei  and the Quia est Tuum est regnum?  How could poeple  be confused?]

    Benedict just wants to give every Catholic what I’m already blessed to have in Tulsa—a church where grown-ups worship like adults.  [Oooo…. nice tag!]

     

    • • • • • •

    Caption call

    CATEGORY: SESSIUNCULUM — Fr. John Zuhlsdorf @ 3:46 pm

     

     

    • • • • • •

    The School of Bologna’s Council of Discontinuity

    CATEGORY: SESSIUNCULUM — Fr. John Zuhlsdorf @ 3:19 pm

    There is an amazing fight going on in Italy over the heart of the Church’s authority and teachings.  The fight has great importance for the rest of the Catholic world.

    Some fast background:

    In 1962 when the Council was about to begin, a book of the decrees of Ecumenical Councils, Conciliorum Oecumenicorum Decreta was published by a group of scholars, the recently deceased Giuseppe Alberigo, Fr. Giuseppe Dossetti (a consultant for Card. Lercaro, who headed up the post-Conciliar liturgical reform through the Consilium), Perikles Joannou, Boris Ulianich, Claudio Leonardi e Paolo Prodi.   These formed an Institute for Religious Studies in Bologna.  Originally, some of these were students of the Church historian Hubert Jedin, but Jedin’s influence was shrugged off.

    The lefty "School of Bologna" dominated the theory of interpretation of the Second Vatican Council and writing its history.  From 1995 to 2001 they published a five-volume History of Vatican Council II in several languages.   I think it is necesary to identify with a "hermeneutic of discontinuity and rupture".  They held that the Second Vatican Council is a "new kind" of Council.  It was a novelty.  An event, rather than something that produced documents.  John XXIII wanted something entirely new, but Paul VI put on the breaks.  The Council was a break with the past and new beginning.

    Now the School of Bologna is reissuing the abovementioned work through Brepols but with some real differences.  The title reveals their vast shift of view of the Councils: Conciliorum Oecumenicorum Generaliumque Decreta.  The first of the three volumes was released in 2006.  Ironically, Alberigo presented the volume to Pope Benedict, and then died.

    The word "General" in the title the thought of the School of Bologna. 

    The idea here is this.

    The people preparing the volums are saying that only some of the Councils in the first millennium can be considered "Ecumenical" Councils.  The Councils which occurred during the Medieval period or after the split between West and East can be considered only "General" Councils.  Those which occurred after the Protestant revolt should be called "General Councils of the Roman Catholic Church".

    However, the Church understands that the Council recognized by the Roman Pontiff are valid and authoritative for all Christians.

    Remember that recently the Holy See’s CDF issued a clarification about the fullness of the Church subsisting in the Catholic Church.

    So, in an unsigned note published in L’Osservatore Romano on 3 June, we read: "To which concept of the Church did the editors of the work think themselves obliged to refer?  Certainly not that of the Catholic Tradition.  It appears the underlying idea was that after 1054 the undivided Church no longer holds."

    This excited two responses in the secular press, one on 8 June in La Repubblica by Giuseppe Ruggieri another on 9 June in Corriere della Sera by Alberto Melloni.  There are the heirs of Alberigo and Dossetti.

    The the President of the Pontifical Commission for Historical Sciences, Mons. Walter Brandmüller responded in an article published simultaneously on 13 June by both L’Osservatore Romano and Avvenire, the daily of the Italian Bishops Conference. Brandmüller said, "It seems the editors wanted to define as Ecumenical only those Councils compatible with the model of the Byzantine pentarchy: an ecclesiological conceptualization that no basis in either Scripture of the apostolic Tradition."

    On 22 July in Corriere della Sera Mons. Brandmüller responded directly to Melloni.  Melloni had cited John XXIII to claim that "General" and "Ecumenical" really mean the same thing and that the description of volume III as "General Councils of the Catholic Church" merely a way to advertise what the book contains, a marketing point. 

    I offer you this in light of what the Holy Father is doing in trying to repair what he calls a "hermeneutic of discontinuity and rupture". 

    This is what we are up against.  

    There is a vast and hitherto virtually unchallenged hermeneutical discontinuity machine dominating nearly every "power structure" in the Church right now.  Much of the grease and fuel for that engine of rupture comes from the School of Bologna and the volumes they pulished.  You will not find a Catholic library that does not have Alberigo’s multi volume History of the Council.  It is new.  It is glossy.  It will be the standard.  It is effectively an instrument of reinterpretation of the Council along the lines described.

    The Holy Father’s move in Summorum Pontificum to say that the Roman Rite necessarily includes the integral use of the pre-Conciliar Roman Rite, the CDF’s document about subsistit are terrifying to the hierophants of the discontinuity machine and their localized cells of minions.  The progressivist Church establishment see these moves of the Holy See much as the tenders of a great machine welcome the approach of interopers carrying monkeywrenches and buckets of gravel.

    • • • • • •

    PODCAzT news and blog report

    CATEGORY: SESSIUNCULUM — Fr. John Zuhlsdorf @ 11:12 am

    I have gotten a few e-mails asking why I am not making as many PODCAzTs as I did before.  This got me thinking. 

    What is the status quaestionis…the state of the question?

    Simply put, since I have been back from Rome at the Sabine Farm I have had some technnical problems in making a smooth recording that satisfies me and I have been doing some other things.   Resolving the problems takes time and, frankly, I have a lot to do. 

    I started considering the statistics for accesses of the recordings and began to wonder if they were worth the effort.  The same consideration influenced my removal of the webcam from the chapel: it drew a lot of bandwidth, it was not the quality image I wanted, and not many people were using it.  So…. GCCCCK!... I killed it off. 

    Similarly, these audio pieces siphon thought and time away from my thought and time budget. 

    I noticed in my stats that PODCAzT 34: St. Thomas Aquinas on the Eucharist; Mass in heaven? No! has been accessed just over 1000 times since I posted it on 9 June. 

    PODCAzT 35: Cyprian on the Our Father; MP Rules of Engagement – 661
    PODCAzT 36: St. Augustine on John the Baptist; Ut queant laxis – 393
    PODCAzT 37: The position of the altar and the priest’s “back to the people” – 868

    I really don’t have any firm grasp of whether that is a lot or not in comparison with other podcasts and that is not why I was making them.  I was curious about the podcast phenomenon and so I started making them.  I learned a lot and it has been interesting.  I was curious about the blogosphere, so I started one.  I have learned a lot, and it has been interesting. As a certain point I evaluate how they fit in my life.  If lot a people are using these little projects, will keep at them.  If I don’t think they are useful and growing in a way proportionate to my effort to make them, ... GCCCCK!

    In the wake of the Motu Porpio Summorum Pontificum I had the idea to make a few PODCAzTs on issues like the orientation of the altar, silence, active participation, kneeling, and such I planned to use mainly such as writings of good auth.  Thors, like Joseph Ratzinger and that school of liturgical thought. The aim was to help people understand what the MP was about and answer questions about things which might puzzle people who are new to the old, as it were.

    In any event, my fingers are thinking out loud.  I wanted to bring you up to date on my blog and PODCAzT status quaestionis.

    Please know that I am so very grateful to all of you who participate here with a good spirit.  I am also grateful to everyone who has used the donation button.  You are tops and it has been more helpful than you know.

    Finally, in keeping with the "Where are you?" posts I do once in a while,... here is a snapshot of where the logins are coming from, as of now.  Please know that I cut out a lot of "Unknown" entries, and vague ones like "United Kingdom".  This list won’t show where all of you are with accuracy, but it give an impressionistic picture of who is reading right now.

    Brighton, Massachusetts
    Rome, Lazio
    Arlington Heights, Mass…
    Saint Paul, Minnesota
    Smyrna, Georgia
    Salt Lake City, Utah
    East Horsley, Bracknell…
    Boston, Massachusetts
    Columbus, Ohio
    Providence, Rhode Island
    Washington, District of…
    Harriston, Ontario
    London, Lambeth
    Sonora, California
    Philadelphia, Pennsylva…
    Madison, Wisconsin
    Toulouse, Midi-Pyrenees
    Toronto, Ontario
    Carluke, North Lanarksh…
    Bletchley, Milton Keynes
    Victoria, British Colum…
    Albuquerque, New Mexico
    Newton Center, Massachu…
    Damariscotta, Maine
    Lexington, Kentucky
    Wiesbaden, Hessen
    Algs, Lisboa
    London, Lambeth
    Charlotte, North Carolina
    Kansas City, Missouri
    Springfield, Massachuse…
    South Weymouth, Massach…
    Malvern, Pennsylvania
    Dedham, Massachusetts
    Eustis, Florida
    Hope, Sheffield
    Cambridge, Massachusetts
    Minneapolis, Minnesota
    Lancaster, Pennsylvania
    Sarver, Pennsylvania
    Natick, Massachusetts
    Baltimore, Maryland
    San Antonio, Texas
    Vancouver, British Colu…
    Deer Park, New York
    Unknown
    Madrid
    Nottingham
    Melbourne, Florida
    Denver, Colorado
    Urbana, Iowa
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Hathersage, Sheffield
    Shooters Hill, Newham
    Irving, Texas
    Jamestown, New York
    Stevenage, Norfolk
    Dresden, Sachsen
    Troy, Michigan
    Jacksonville, Florida
    Chicago, Illinois
    Snellville, Georgia
    Vienna, Wien
    Dublin, Ohio
    Sacramento, California
    Collegeville, Minnesota
    College Park, Maryland
    Westland, Michigan
    Osasco, Sao Paulo
    Wallingford, Connecticut
    Goodhue, Minnesota
    Hove, Brighton and Hove