Mass for Cardinal Stickler on CTV

The Mass for Card. Stickler is on CTV.

Mass is in Latin.

They seem to be using Eucharistic Prayer III. 

Red vestments.

 

 

FacebookEmailPinterestGoogle GmailShare/Bookmark

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
This entry was posted in SESSIUNCULA. Bookmark the permalink.

42 Responses to Mass for Cardinal Stickler on CTV

  1. danphunter1 says:

    Why not black vestments?
    This is so sad and disrespectful.
    What a lost opportunity.

  2. dcs says:

    IIRC, the Pope wears red vestments when celebrating a Requiem. So the non-use of black is neither sad nor disrespectful.

  3. Geoffrey says:

    Is there an online feed somewhere?

  4. Disrespectful? Hardly.

    Red is the traditional Papal colour of mourning. Others know the history better than I do, but it’s an old maxim: Papa luget in rubro – The Pope weeps in Red.

    The Roman Canon would certainly have been a fitting reference to His Eminence’s devotion to the liturgy, although within the context of the Novus Ordo, the fact that there are special prayers for the deceased for use at funeral masses in the 3rd Eucharistic Prayer make it a fitting choice for funeral masses.

  5. danphunter1 says:

    dcs.
    The Holy Father cannot wear black when offering a requiem Mass?
    also why is the Requiem not going to be in the Missal of 1962 as I am sure Cardinal Stickler would have wanted it?

  6. Geoffrey says:

    A public Requiem Mass in the Extraordinary Form for His Late Eminence was not a realistic expectation. Perhaps His Holiness will say one privately?

  7. Ottaviani says:

    I am sure that it is not the Holy Father’s intention to snub Cardinal Stickler’s devotion to the traditional liturgy (unlike would have been the case with Paul VI celebrating Cardinal Ottaviani’s funeral).

    However things sadly have to move slowly before we can have a full restoration. Cardinal Stickler knew this. The Pauline Tsunami will take ages to clear up.

    I am sure all the FSSP, ICKSP, GSI chapels and some SSPX chapels are having their own requiem mass for the beloved Cardinal, with catafalque and black vestments.

  8. Out of curiosity, how would a Pope have celebrated a Funeral under the 1962 Missal and the older customs of the Papal Liturgy? I could be wrong, but I can’t imagine that Popes would have celebrated many/any public funerals in the older liturgical form.

  9. Pleased As Punch says:

    Some liturgical observations:

    Everything appeared to be in Latin except for the 1st and 2nd readings and their openings (“Una lettura di…” or something like that). Even the closing of those readings was in Latin (“Verbum Domini,” etc.). The prayers of the faithful too were in Italian (though even the response to those was in Latin), as well as, of course, the homily. The Gospel was chanted in Latin only. It really makes you wonder about the principle of vernacular readings. If the Liturgy of the Word is primarily didactic in the ethos of the ordinary form, and for that reason ought to be in the vernacular, well, should not the most important of the readings–namely, the Gospel–especially be in the vernacular? Curiously, the close of the Latin Gospel was also “Verbum Domini,” rather than the “The Gospel of the Lord” that we get in English. The Offertory, Preface, and entire Eucharistic Prayer were all in Latin. It was definitely EP III. Cardinal Sodano appeared to be the first concelebrant to speak, and Cardinal Ruini the second (but I don’t know their faces well, so I could be wrong). There was very little communion in the hand, nor did the Holy Father appear to recite any formula when distributing communion, and only a handful made the sign of the cross after communicating. Incidentally, the external decorations on the Roman Missal from which the Holy Father read seemed quite modern.

  10. TNCath says:

    I would be willing to bet that there is a plan in place for the Holy Father to publicly say Mass in the Extraordinary Form at some point this year. Consider this: had he decided to use the Extraordinary Form for this Mass, naysayers might opine that the only reason he did it was because Cardinal Stickler was a great proponent of the use of the Missal of John XXIII. I think it would make more of an impression on the Church if the Holy Father waited until perhaps the Mass for Epiphany, the Feast of the Presentation, or even Corpus Christi.

  11. danphunter1 says:

    Pleased as Punch,
    Who chanted the Dies Irae?
    Thank you.

  12. Pleased As Punch says:

    Dear danphunter1: I’m sorry, I don’t quite understand your question. Unless I just missed it, I don’t believe anyone chanted the Dies Irae (or the Rex Tremendae or the Tuba Mirum or the Confutatis). I admit, though, that I couldn’t make out much of the music; my little internet player was a bit scratchy.

  13. ALL: This is an object lesson on how not to just charge in on assumptions when knowledge is a little thin.

  14. Father Bartoloma says:

    I have a question. I have only seen the coffin placed directly on the floor at these funerals in Rome, I remember the funeral of JP2 and I didn\’t realize that this was done for cardinals\’ funerals too. Why? Is there some particular reason for this: the coffin with no pall or anything else, just the book of gospels, and not on a bier but on the ground? It looks tacky and out of place in my opinion.

  15. Tom says:

    The coffin of members of European royal or aristocratic families used to be put on the floor
    (the custom was called “mos nobilium”). It is thus hardly inappropriate for a cardinal.

  16. danphunter1 says:

    All I can say is the vestments that the Holy Father was wearing are highly unattractive.
    The Mitre looks like something that I made in nursery school and my mom promptly disposed of.
    The casket of the Cardinals Mortal remains should not be placed on the floor.
    There is most definitely something wrong here.
    God rest Cardinal Sticklers soul.

  17. Father DiMaria says:

    May I ask that someone kindly post a link to the video of the Cardinal’s Requiem Mass? I was unable to find it.
    Thank you!

  18. Father G says:

    I said a Requiem mass for the repose of the soul of His Eminence this morning(traditional rite/w black vestments). Requiescat in pace…
    Father G

  19. Prof. Basto says:

    The fact that red is being used as the proper colour of papal mourning is an improvement. If I recall correctly, Pope John Paul celebrated funerals in violet, like other priests usually do in the ordinary form. So, red is great, as a sign of return to tradition.

    We have seen that Mitre before, but I must say that I have doubts as to if that mitre truly qualifies as a Mitra Simplex , given that it is adorned by a golden border. I would like to see a true simple mitre, all white, and of appropriate height.

    As for Eucharistic Prayer III, it has a beautiful prayer for funerals. The Roman Canon would have been better, but its better to have EP III than EP II. Perhaps the pope offered a private Requiem in the extraordinary form in his chapel. But it was too much to think that the Vatican would prepare a Tridenine Requiem coram Summo Pontifice in 48 hours.

    As for the pope celebrating himself a Requiem Mass in public (instead of a private Requiem or of a public Requiem coram Summo Pontifice ), I’m not really sure that it was a possibility, due to the intrincate rules governing the papal cerimonial in the extraordinary form. Consider that even when Pope Pius VI’s body was laid to rest at the Vatican after returning from France (where the Pope died in captivity), the Funeral Mass was celebrated in the presence of Pope Pius VII , and not by Pius VII himself (source: Salvador MIRANDA. Website “Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church”).

  20. The papal simplex mitre is cloth of silver with gold bindings.

  21. malta says:

    “The Pauline Tsunami will take ages to clear up.”

    That’s classic!

    I do think it’s unfortunate that the Extraordinary form wasn’t
    used, “reasonable” expectation or not. It would have been a
    perfect opportunity for BXVI to use it.

  22. Prof. Basto says:

    Ottaviani,

    It wasn’t Paul VI who celebrated Cardinal Ottaviani’s funeral. Paul VI was dead by then. Cardinal Ottaviani died at the Vatican in 1979, when John Paul II was already occupying the Throne of St. Peter. The good Cardinal was laid to rest in the church of S. Salvatore in ossibus, Vatican City.

  23. Jamie says:

    How about we put bickering aside? The pope has done the best that can be done (more than the previous Popes) by restoring the traditional red for a pope saying a requiem. Our Holy Pope has done a wonderful thing by saying this Mass when it could have been delegated, which I think is a clear sign that he is in agreement with Cardinal Stickler on the issues that matter most to us. The photograph above, even if it is in a new church Mass is beautiful and respectful. If Cardinal Stickler were alive still, he would not want the Pope to say a traditional Mass for his public funeral if it lessens the impact of the Mass we will see when our holy Pope say his first public traditional Mass. Something big is coming – be patient and pray for Cardinal Stickler who wanted it as much as we do.

  24. Different says:

    Jamie,

    What on earth do you mean by a “new church Mass”?

  25. The fact that red is being used as the proper colour of papal mourning is an improvement. If I recall correctly, Pope John Paul celebrated funerals in violet, like other priests usually do in the ordinary form. So, red is great, as a sign of return to tradition.

    I’m not quite sure about that. I haven’t been able to turn up any pictures of John Paul II celebrating a Cardinal’s funeral, but photos on the Vatican website show that when he used to celebrate the November Mass for the repose of the souls of deceased Cardinals and Bishops he used to wear red.

  26. Nathan says:

    + JMJ +

    I don’t want to become involved in the discussion on the particulars of Cardinal Stickler’s funeral Mass—requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine—but I do have a question on the Holy Father’s options in the TLM. More than once, I’ve read that the Solemn Papal Mass anticipates the presence of the Papal Court, and that it was only said (because of its complexity) four or so times a year. Does that mean that the Holy Father, according to his pre-Councilar Ceremoniale, says only a Low Mass or a Solemn Papal Mass? Does he have an option, like bishops, for something like Mass said from the faldstool, of lesser solemnity than the full Ceremoniale? Does the Ceremoniale provide the option for the Holy Father to say the Solemn Pontifical Mass, especially when outside St. Peter’s Basilica?

    Thanks in advance, papal experts—

    In Christ,

  27. Different says:

    Zadok,

    I know the vestments were red at the funeral Mass for Cardinal Nguyen Van Thuan. Pope John Paul II did not celebrate but gave the homily. Cardinal Sodano and many other cardinals celebrated the Mass wearing the same vestments seen in the photo above.

  28. Carl H. Horst says:

    A lost opportunity. Can there be any doubt that Card. Stikler would have preferred a Traditional Latin Mass? I think not! Be that as it may, today at the Daily Traditional Latin Mass in the Diocese of San Diego, the Rev. Reginald De Four C.S.Sp. offer a Requiem Mass for Card Stickler.

  29. Belloc says:

    I’m sorry, but this would’ve been the perfect time for the Holy Father to celebrate a Traditional Mass. If it would’ve proven too difficult logistically for him to celebrate it himself, then the FSSP or the ICKSP could’ve easily pulled it off, offering the Mass in his presence. Celebrating a second time, on a more joyous occasion with more pomp would’ve been a perfect touch, and sent a powerful message that the TLM is for ALL occasions.

    It’s too bad that the innovations of Marini First are still with us. How sad that they were left in place for Cardinal Stickler of all people. Celebration of a Requiem had to be discussed, and I’m sure the possibility was suspected by the usual suspects. What happened, did Cardinal Sodano threaten to move back into his apartment? I’d love to know.

  30. Syriacus says:

    The chasuble worn today by the Pope at Cardinal Stickler’s requiem, would seem the very same he wore celebrating Pope John Paul’s funeral Mass :

    http://img241.echo.cx/img241/2028/ratzingermassmonday4gw.jpg

    http://g.o.r.i.l.l.a.postle.net/images/JP2FuneralRatziMass02.jpg

    http://www.voanews.com/english/images/ap_pope_funeral_priests_cardinal_08apr05_210.jpg

  31. The cardinal’s casket wasn’t on the floor. It was on a RUG which was covering the floor so stop your carping.

    Besides, as a religious (cardinal or not) and therefore vowed to poverty, placing his casket in a low place is MOST appropriate.

  32. Matt Q says:

    I suppose Cardinal Stickler didn’t have a living will. He should have stipulated his funeral rather than just relying on others to get things done. Time and time again we see how this falls so short even in the lives of common folk.

    Father Selvester wrote:

    “The cardinal’s casket wasn’t on the floor. It was on a RUG which was covering the floor so stop your carping.

    Besides, as a religious (cardinal or not) and therefore vowed to poverty, placing his casket in a low place is MOST appropriate.”

    Not a good analogy, Father. In that case, it should be appropriate the bodies of deceased homeless should be left in the dumpsters they frequented most of their lives. I don’t believe this to be so.

  33. Geoffrey says:

    Personally, when I die, I will be thankful for ANY Mass said for the repose of my soul.

  34. Tim says:

    Poor Cardinal Stickler. Despite Summorum Pontificum and the change to Guido
    Marini, things are still looking pretty much Piero Marinian.

  35. Malta says:

    Cardinal Stickler was/is perhaps the greatest Cardinal in living memory. Here is his piece on the traditional mass, written over ten years ago:

    http://www.latinmassmagazine.com/stickler.asp

    Traditionalists have lost a great friend and stalwart supporter of the Traditional Church in C. Stickler.

    May God eternally rest this great soul, who stood as a goose in the midst of cowardly ducks in our modern Church.

  36. Hung Doan says:

    Hey guys! I found this picture from the Vatican website of our late Holy Father of great memory, John Paul II celebrating (in his rather frail state) the funeral of the late Francois Xavier Cardinal Nguyen Van Thuan. The Pope (and Cardinal Concelebrants) wore red!

    http://www.vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/2002/documents/ns_lit_doc_20020920_foto.html

    The late cardinal’s story is also very touching if you get a chance to learn about a life of humility and courage.

  37. David M.O'Rourke says:

    The traditional protocal for the funeral of a cardinal is that his coffin lie on a large catafalque surrounded by 100 candles. The first cardinal to lie on the floor was Cardinal Bea. In his memoirs, Annibale Bugnini crows about the event and says that after the funeral cadinals were coming p to him and saying how wonderful it was and that was how they wanted their funerals to be the same.

    I have seen three cadinals laid out in Toronto. The 100 candles were gone but their coffins were placed on the normal foldomg catafalques used by funeral directors. One of the, James Cardinal McGuigan had been made cardial in 1946 and thus his red galerao was on a stand with the tassles so long they were spread on the floor. To see the REAL red hat so close I could have touched it was the thrill of a lifetime. In obedience to tradition it now hangs from the ceiling of the cathedral until it drops

  38. Matt Q said:

    “Not a good analogy, Father. In that case, it should be appropriate the bodies of deceased homeless should be left in the dumpsters they frequented most of their lives. I don’t believe this to be so.”

    What a truly stupid thing to say. I don’t believe that the remains of human beings should be treated like garbage either. I wasn’t making an analogy. The funeral of a vowed religious should reflect the poverty he embraced in life and his renunciation of worldly comforts. Placing Cardinal Stickler’s casket on a rug instead of a bier does not demean his dignity as either a cardinal or as a human being.

  39. Good common sense, as ever, from Fr. Selvester.

    I have lain on my front on the floor before the high altar in our abbey church at my simple profession, my solemn profession (twice), my diaconal ordination and my priestly ordination.

    I will lie there, this time on my back, in a coffin, one more time, at my funeral. I will then be buried in the earth.

    There is nothing demeaning about any of it. It is a simple recognition of the human condition, as we are reminded every Ash Wednesday.

  40. Luca says:

    Padre, e’ proprio necessario questo libro sulla bara? E’ previsto dalla liturgia o e’ una moda dopo gli ultimi funerali pontifici?

  41. I will close down the combox now.

    I am frankly a little embarrassed that some of you took the tone you did in an entry about the death of this man who did so much for the traditional expression of the liturgy.