What Does The Prayer Really Say?
W D T P R S

Another question from e-mail:

First allow me to say how much I, as a young convert, have enjoyed and learned a great deal from your blog.  My question is, what is the status on Latin Rite Catholics participating in Masses according to the forms of other Catholic rites.  For example, there is a Byzantine Rite parish not to far from where I live and I would like to go there one Sunday and see what it is like.  I assume that I am allowed to receive communion but does it also count as my Sunday obligation?  This is probably a very stupid question and my gut reaction is that it is acceptable to do so.  However, I don’t want to commit a blunder through ignorance.

Also, while discussing Eastern Rites.  When at an Eastern Orthodox church (say on a tour or something), should I still genuflect to the altar?  It is, of course, Christ within but I don’t know if that is acceptable form in Eastern Rite churches.

First, I should say that I, too, am a convert.  And when I started exploring the Church I also was interested in the Eastern Rites and sought them out.  Happily, in my home town the main Churches were represented.  It was fascinating.  Also, for a couple summers I live with Ukrainian Catholics in Rome on the Aventine Hill and got to know their Divine Liturgy quite well.  They liked me: I have a big bass voice and there was plenty to do with it.

Yes, as a Catholic you can go to Mass or Divine Liturgy at any of those Eastern Catholic Churches with their own Rites.  You can participate in the proper ways (you are a baptized Christian and a Catholic, after all) and receive Holy Communion.

Also, according to the 1983 Code of Canon for Latin Church Catholics you fulfill your Sunday or Holy Day obligations by attending the Divine Liturgy because they are also celebrating, obviously, in Catholic Rite.

Remember that they will have their own customs.  You want to be respectful and careful.  I don’t think anyone would look at you cross-eyed if you genuflected: that’s how we Latins do it, after all.  If you prefer, you could bow deeply as the Easterners tend to do.  As you please.

Sometimes their Divine Liturgies can be rather long, so figure that into your morning.

BTW… when you receive Communion, you will probably receive under both kinds administered by the priest with a small spoon.  Small pieces of the Host, sometimes like little "croutons" will be in the chalice with the Precious Blood.  The priest will put a small amount of the Precious Blood into your mouth together with Eucharistic Body.   If this is how you see Communion is being distributed, just tilt your head back with your mouth open, the priest will do the rest.  Do NOT close your mouth around the spoon, as some Latins do the first time.

I suggest that you go to participate in as many different Catholic Churches as possible, noting the similarities and differences.  They will only help you understand better your own Latin Catholic heritage.

If after Mass you talk to the priest, feel free to ask him questions.  Sometimes they will use terms you are not familiar with, but they are familiar enough with dealing with Latins to know how to put things.

So, go and breath from both your Catholic lungs, Eastern and Western.  And enjoy the incense.

I got this question via e-mail:

Father,

In societies that use the 1962 Missal, when does a man become a cleric?  The current 1983 Code says they become a cleric at the diaconate.  Do societies like the FSSP and ICK have an indult?  I know they have an indult to continue the subdiaconate, but are the subdeacons clerics?

This is the old question of when the clerical state begins… and we are not talking about being hired out of Madame Ethel’s Secretarial and Finishing Academy… though.. well… best leave that one alone.

For this question, everything depends on the 1983 Code of Canon Law.

Canon 266.1: "A person becomes a cleric through the reception of the diaconate and is incardinated into the particular Church or personal prelature for whose services he has been advanced."

In the old days, under the old 1917 Code, the clerical state began when a man received his First Tonsure.  In fact, the tonsure was the sign of the clerical state and for a very long time all clerics had to maintain the tonsure, in the case of most priests a round spot shaved on the top of their head… assuming they had hair there, of course.  Some of us have pretty dramatic natural tonsures.   Religious would have their heads shaved with a small band, or crown of hair around their heads.

Keep in mind the difference between the "religious" state and the "clerical" state.  Men can be under vows in an order or institute of religious or consecrated life and not be a cleric.  Not all religious are clerics and not all clerics are religious.  "Cleric" refers more to a man who is incardinated, rather than under vows.

Historically, the clerical state was important for matters of jurisdiction in the case of prosecution (in some places clerics could not be tried in secular courts) and also who could have a "benefice", or a grant of the income deriving from property owned by the Church.

Until 1972 the four Minor Orders were clerics states, defined by the Council of Trent.  After a man was tonsured, he would be "ordained" (though these are not sacramental Holy Orders as some medieval theologians thought)

• Porter or Ostiarius
• Lector,
• Exorcist
• Acolyte

While these were orders for clerics, they did not require a promise or vow of lifelong celibacy.  That started with the next Order, Subdiaconate. 

The Major Orders were:

• Subdeacon
• Deacon
• Priest

Paul VI suppressed the minor orders in 1972, requiring that candidates for the diaconate and priesthood be "installed" in the stable ministries of Lector and Acolyte, the Acolyte subsuming the tasks of the old Acolyte and the Subdeacon.

The traditionalist groups such as the FSSP and the ICK, as well as others, have permission to put their men through the paces of the Minor Orders.  However, none of these old orders makes a man a cleric.  They can cut all the hair they want, but only ordination as a deacon makes a man a cleric, under law.  So, in these traditional groups, we have to distinguish between their own internal customs, what they chose to do within their communities, and how the Church’s law sees the situation.

When the clerical state begins is very important for the Church’s laws.  The clerical state exacts certain duties and there are censures which are applied to clerics.  Also, the clerical state makes it possible to hold some offices in the Church.

Today I have an interview with His Hermeneuticalness himself, Fr. Timothy Finigan.   We talk togther about Summorum Pontificum and matters liturgical and spiritual.  I think you’ll find this pretty interesting.

But first, we hear from St. Bonaventure (+1274) speaking to us from across the centuries in his De itinerario mentis in Deum (The journey of the mind to God).  This is the in Office of Readings for the Saint’s feast in the post-Conciliar calendar.  In the older, traditional calendar, we observed the Seraphic Doctor’s feast yesterday.

I then drill into a couple of his remarks, especially talking about how entering a church for Holy Mass prepares us for an encounter with Mystery.

http://www.wdtprs.com/podcazt/08_07_15.mp3

The iTunes feed is working again… mysteriously.  Check it out!

Some of the last offerings (check out the PODCAzT PAGE):

064 08-07-15 Bonaventure on Christ “the door”; Interview – Fr. Timothy Finigan
063 08-07-12 Interview: Fr. Justin Nolan, FSSP; consecrated hands, Holy Communion and the Rite of Baptism
062 08-06-26 Interviews with and by Fr. Z; What has Bp. Fellay really said?
061 08-05-17 Pope Leo I on a post-Pentecost weekday; Fr. Z rambles not quite aimlessly for a while
060 08-05-16 Pentecost customs; St. Ambrose on the dew of the Holy Spirit
059 08-05-15 Leo the Great on Pentecost fasting; Benedict XVI’s sermon for Pentecost Sunday
058 08-05-14 Ember Days; Chrysostom on St. Matthias; Prayer to the Holy Spirit
057 08-05-13