I hate to say it…

FIRST: read this – A magisterium of nuns

As I was headed over to church to preach at the evening Mass, a priest here in the rectory (I am in NY) stopped me and said that he had just seen on a news show Geraldine Ferraro (D pro-abortion) pitted against Rick Sanctorum (R pro life) both Catholic.

The long and the short of it.

Santorum: the bishops say no.

Ferraro: but the nuns say yes.

I am hoping someone can find a Youtube of that.

I hate to say it…
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About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

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43 Responses to I hate to say it…

  1. Consilio et Impetu says:

    Isn’t it about time some politicians or former politicians in the lime light get excommunicated? And some religious orders either boot a few of their members out (male or female) or suppress the order? I refuse to contribute to any religious community that allows discenters to continue. The Church is a Deo-ocracy, not a Democracy.

  2. apagano says:

    Does it really matter if the nuns say yes or no for that matter? What should matter is what your Bishop says. HE is the alter Christi (sp?), not a bunch of nuns. Oh, and 60 nuns might have said yes, but 130 or so nuns said NO.

  3. revs96 says:

    We should have gotten out the bell, book, and candles long ago…

    Democracy is quasi-anarchy. Chaos is the opposite of Order, which is what is established by God, so we must have a theocracy.

  4. sejoga says:

    I know that Mother Millea has gone to great lengths to make people understand that the Apostolic Visitation is as much about celebrating the lives of women religious in this country as it is about correcting problems (see the video here: http://www.apostolicvisitation.org/en/index.html), but after this nightmare with open disobedience to the Church in favor of government sponsored abortions, I hope the AV leads to a very public and painful getting-of-the-ax for some of these “sisters”. A complete evisceration of anti-Catholic elements within the Church.

    Maybe I shouldn’t wish for such a thing, but I’m not altogether convinced that Schadenfreude must always be a sin…

  5. JonM says:

    Revs96 is correct: the notion of a government devoid of a religion is without historical precedent.

    In fact, as much as secularists champion a religion-less state, only a brief opening of an eye would give away the fact that secularist governments simply fill the void of religion.

    Currently, Mammon is the false god of choice, though unbridled lust appears to be hotly contesting the former’s status as first among equals of the reprobate.

    I think the fruits of the freemasonic-inspired revolutions of the past three centuries are clear in their quality.

    As Roman Catholics become the commanding majority in the US, we will have to rewrite law so that it acknowledges Jesus Christ, His commandments, and His one holy and apostolic Church. Anything less would, in my view, be a failure to correctly live out the faith in the public square.

    Oh, and yes. Dissent Catholics, from Nancy Pelosi and the Sanchez sisters to neocon idols OReilly and Hannity, have to be told either repent publicly and perform public penance or face the wrath of an extinguished baptismal candle. If some bishops form the second Episcopal Church, I say so be it. As things are, it is not tenable to allow vicious attacks, from within the Church, on the Pope and the Magisterium

  6. jbas says:

    If only these wayward religious and lay Catholics new the damage they are doing to the mission of the Church. While I find many challenges facing us energizing, proving us an opportunity to grow in zeal, I see nothing but sadness in this situation. We can convert the world to the truth and morality of Christ if we are united.

  7. I wonder, more and more, if the Church in America is going to splinter. I mean a real schism, with dissident nuns leading the schismatic sect. Fr. Z may be saying more than he knows with his expression, “a magisterium of nuns.”

  8. historyb says:

    Isn’t it about time some politicians or former politicians in the lime light get excommunicated? And some religious orders either boot a few of their members out (male or female) or suppress the order? I refuse to contribute to any religious community that allows discenters to continue. The Church is a Deo-ocracy, not a Democracy.

    Are they even concerned with Discipline? It was need long ago but is never forth coming, makes them appear weak or they don’t care

  9. TNCath says:

    Geraldine, Geraldine! (I can’t help but be reminded of Flip Wilson’s Geraldine–a much more entertaining character!)

    But, seriously, the Democrats are really desperate if they are pulling her out of mothballs. I’m sure the late Cardinal O’Connor is getting a good laugh from Eternity with this move. No doubt Nancy Pelosi gave her a call/sent her a text message/shot her an e-mail asking for her help. Both need to review their catechisms, for, in this case, just because “Sister said so,” doesn’t apply.

  10. haleype says:

    On this matter I have a distinct feeling that we have not heard the last on this matter from the Holy Father himself. He ordered the AV and I suspect the hammer is about to fall on those who intentionally subvert Catholic teaching. He is a patient man but his patience is not unlimited.

  11. Lurker 59 says:

    It is not the Church’s mandate to disengage from the world and to take all the orthodox members and go and hide away someplace.

    This is going to be a nightmare that will only result in the Church being further marginalized from mainstream culture and from politics. It is a whole effective wedge stratagem. (The abortion issue is effectively clouding the more dangerous issue…that secular progressive ideology will become the only authority and provider of healthcare dispensed through the organs of the federal government. Just as Catholic Adoption agencies have been forced to close, so too now will Catholic Hospitals, social programs, and eventually schools. It will take a while but that is the end game – It is a good reminder here that secular progressives and conservative anti-Catholic Protestants are one the same page about dismantling the Church’s visible social organs.)

    If the Church does not effectively push back against the heterodox elements within her (issuing condemning but teethless statements that do not translate into visible action is not pushing back), Joe Catholic and Mary Protestant will consider the Church to have the moral authority of a wet noodle and will no longer look to her for guidance. Political power will be undercut, for in America political power is not determined by the strength of the moral message but rather by the size of the voting block that can be mobilized. The secularists and progressives will then be able to dismantle the Church as they see fit (which will be done by dismantling the network of Catholic hospitals, social programs, and education – all of which are fairly well dismantled already.)

    If the Church does effectively push back, that is heads have to roll, it is going to come across as over reaching mean-spirited medievalism by the millions of poorly catechized Catholics in this country, the millions of anti-Catholic Protestants, and the millions of militant secularists. There will then be a demand to see the Church’s institutions dismantled (a demand that exists currently if one listens close to the various currents in our society.)

  12. Jacob says:

    Typical. One man’s anecdote about his mother and Ferraro from the early 80s:

    Ferraro knew how to work a crowd, and showed it when she came to visit our parish, Immaculate Conception. The church hall filled up, mostly with nice old ladies from the Rosary Society. On the dais, the youthful priest beamed like an Irish wardheeler at this Very Important Person. She was flanked by the pant-suited nuns who’d terrorized my childhood—not with anything so wholesome as corporal punishment, but through psy-ops such as folk Mass, “Godspell,” and sinister little buttons we had to wear that read “God Don’t Make Junk: I’m Lovable!”

    Read on from there!

  13. lofstrr says:

    perhaps I am reading too much into all this but it sure seems to me that all this was a setup. Planned and coordinated. The sisters provide just enough distraction and the media of course only covers one side of the story. Now the usual liberal suspects just right on the talking points.

    I could be wrong but this all seems to have moved way to fast to not have been planned ahead of time.

  14. Jacob says:

    Lofstrr, you’re not. I’d guess that the politically minded of those sisters are organized like a PAC and have ties directly with the DNC.

  15. Cavaliere says:

    and God told Abraham that he would spare the city if there were 10 just men left there. Anybody know how many of the 12 pro-life Democrats are left to vote against this bill?

  16. JonM says:

    The abortion issue is effectively clouding the more dangerous issue…that secular progressive ideology will become the only authority and provider of healthcare dispensed through the organs of the federal government. Just as Catholic Adoption agencies have been forced to close, so too now will Catholic Hospitals, social programs, and eventually schools. It will take a while but that is the end game – It is a good reminder here that secular progressives and conservative anti-Catholic Protestants are one the same page about dismantling the Church’s visible social organs.

    Lurker 59, thank you for your articulate assessment.

    The bishops have to know that the core of the Church will support them when they begin to instruct, judge, and discipline. I’m not sure who they are talking to when they praise Baptists, rehash a 40+ year old speech (terrible that it was), and praise a non-Christian freemasonic cult.

    Poorly catechized Catholics could not care less.

    Non Catholics take it as affirmation of their wayward practices.

    And then Catholics who acknowledge the faith did not begin in 1970 are left on their own to defend the faith often by repelling volleys of arrows indeed manufactured by confusing, blurry, and inadvisable episcopal statements.

    I’m of the belief that the ostrich approach will eventually lead to (formal) schism anyway. Perhaps the calculation is that over the next 20 years, the Priesthood will be firmly orthodox and there will be a well of strong leadership, starting with parish ministry.

    This switch being virtually assured, perhaps the thought is that the tough love can occur in the future when most bishops will be first concerned with saving souls and not preoccupied with ‘social justice.’

    My fear is that as soon as the commanders are neatly positioned on the battlefield, battalions will be reduced to irregular squads. And in the meantime, who knows how many soldiers would have chosen temporary pleasure for a permanency of defeat…

    St. Thomas Becket, ora pro nobis.

  17. wanda says:

    Fr. Frank Pavone of Priests for Life is to address a gathering of (some?) members of Congress and their families tomorrow morning. May God give grace and power to him and to his words. (I’d love to be a fly on the wall there.)

  18. Maltese says:

    Thank God for people like Santorum, the liberals have a particular focus on him, especially in San Fran:

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/products.php?defid=1603573

    He’s actually a good Catholic family man; too bad the hell hounds are so focused on him (and probably drove him out of Washington; good bye “Mr. Smith.”)

  19. Sandra_in_Severn says:

    On another discussion board I stood up and defended Mother Church against slander and false accusations, (the true ones are bad enough). The ferment of the anti-Catholic bunch was somewhat alarming. I said there that I can see a day where it will be illegal to be a Catholic, I only pray I am enough of one to be convicted of it.

    For many years there was the “lead the ‘children’ gently back into the fold” of Church discipline. The “rod” was spared and ‘the child’ is a wayward and wanton tyrant.

    I thank G-d for the many “strong” teachers and catechists I have encountered that taught me an adult’s faith, one to with stand evil, the Church militant, not same pastel poster for an infant’s room.

  20. TKS says:

    Scandal for non-Catholics plus scandal for Catholics who wonder why this is not taken care of by our Shepards.

  21. Charivari Rob says:

    Jacob, thank you for that link. That just about made my night.

  22. EnoughRope says:

    Here is a question for JonM: I am not a O’Reilly or Hannity fan (I actually don’t like them at all), but I am not familiar with any of their anti-Catholicism. Can you give me some examples of this? I am out of the “know” on them when it comes to their religion. I have heard them play the religion card before- but nothing too bizarre….

  23. catholicmidwest says:

    I’m still trying to figure out what nuns do. They don’t teach school. They don’t nurse the sick. They apparently don’t teach the truth. So what do they do??? And why do we still need them????

    Obviously we don’t need these nuns. They don’t even know what the bishops are saying. Hell, they think abortion is okay!

  24. Penguins Fan says:

    I live in Pennsylvania and I can tell everyone that Santorum did some things that helped him dig his own grave politically, such as his support for Arlen Specter in 2004 and living in Virginia, which the Democrats used against him relentlessly, since Santorum was elected to the House in 1990 running against a pol who lived in Virginia and used his mother’s apartment in suburban Pittsburgh for his “home” address. The Penn Hills school board , who was led by a virulent Democrat, bashed Santorum for using the PA Cyber Charter school while living in VA (Santorum had a house in Penn Hills). They even tried to stop Santorum and his wife from voting in Allegheny County.

    Now we are stuck with Bobby Casey, an alleged Catholic who gets upset at the lack of Utz potato chips in the Senate cafeteria.

    We in the Catholic Church are reaping what we have sown. Dissident nuns are nothing new. The lack of will in dealing with pro abortion “Catholic” politicians is nothing new. The bishops’ track record of supporting any big government program that will allegedly “help” the poor is nothing new. A majority of “Catholics”, I suspect most non-observant, voted for Obama. Obama and his advisers would like nothing better than a formal schism of the Church in the US.

    The Federal Government has no right to be involved in health care, but they are and it’s only going to get worse, especially so with Democrats in charge.

  25. shellac says:

    Ignatius of Antioch [50-117 AD] Epistle to the Smyraeans
    See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church..

  26. Leonius says:

    And yet still no anathemas, in fact no canonical action whatsoever.

    Imagine if the citizens of a nation held in contempt the laws of that nation in the same way that so many Catholics seem to hold the laws of the Church.

    Bad natured people follow the laws of the land largely because they know failure to do so will result in a visit by the police, trial and, if found guilty of violating the law, punishment. This is a large part of what it means to govern a society and is necessary to keep order and peace and to prevent anarchy, chaos and destruction.

    Likewise catholics with badly formed consciences and characters will only follow Church law if they are helped to do so by the laws been enforced by those given the authority to do so through. Until Canon Law is enforced the destruction and scattering of the flock will continue as the wicked are allowed to pray on the weak by those who had the power to protect them but refused to wield it, erring in judgement by mistaking tolerance of evil for mercy.

    Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil.

  27. JonM says:

    @EnoughRope,

    Hannity severely mistreated a priest, Fr. Thomas Euteneuer (in the same spirit of Chris Matthews.) Here’s the clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usTWwSbpWRc. Considering contraception a teaching he can ignore and painting the entire Church for the sins of a few, Hannity made Fr. Euteneuer ‘his whipping boy’ as the priest recently wrote.

    Hannity has said in the past that it is fine to support pro-abortion politicians and not work to change the law now. In October, again demonstrating the shallow understanding of the faith, Hannity weighed becoming a licensed Baptist preacher.

    OReilly has castigated the Pope before and never (as far as I know) publicly apologized. A blurb about that: http://teaattrianon.blogspot.com/2007/03/fatther-euteneuers-reply-to-father.html

    My point isn’t to embarrass these two men. Rather, I think it is important to be mindful that the problem is not as simple as ‘Democrats = heretics, Republicans = Saints.’

    Another example: Michael Steele, head of the Republican Party, does not let his Catholicism hold him back from spending GOP money lavishly on himself and the hierarchy, but does find it right to publicly dissent from the teaching against birth control.

    Furthermore, neoconservative Catholics have used poor argumentation in supporting the Iraq invasion. Deal Hudson’s bizarre ‘I don’t care what the Pope thinks’ position is not sufficient to go against the judgment of the Holy Father that the war should not have been prosecuted.

    A Catholic can favor the decision for war; it is possible, as the Pope himself once commented. The factors going into the subjective assessment for the need for war become the most important consideration. Just saying ‘we can do what we want and the Pope has no right to tell us otherwise’ is a serious problem.

    Any house cleaning has to be pretty thorough and to work could not just center on abortion supporters.

  28. gloriainexcelsis says:

    Hannity and O’Reilly are not really anti-Catholic. They simply don’t know their faith. It took Glenn Beck to point out an error in O’Reilly’s thinking. They are among the Cafeteria Catholics, who have been poorly catechised, even in their higher education. This is the trouble with the Catholic politicians. They have been brainwashed by progressives, modernists, or whatever you want to call them. I’ve been tempted to send a copy of The Catechism of the Catholic Church to both Hannity and O’Reilly, and maybe even a Code of Canon Law. Father Jone’s Moral Theology wouldn’t be bad either.

  29. robtbrown says:

    As Roman Catholics become the commanding majority in the US,

    I wouldn’t bet the farm on that happening.

    we will have to rewrite law so that it acknowledges Jesus Christ, His commandments, and His one holy and apostolic Church. Anything less would, in my view, be a failure to correctly live out the faith in the public square.
    Comment by JonM

  30. Peggy R says:

    Gateway Pundit (housed at First Things these days) reports that a similar debate occurred on Fox News Sunday in which Jewish Rep. Wasserman-dash-something told Catholic Paul Ryan was Catholic teaching really was…!
    http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/rep-paul-ryan-destroys-liberal-debbie-wasserman-schultz-in-obamacare-debate/

    I was noting, BTW, how all the pro-life Dems being targeted are in the old midwest rust belt states: PA &OH mostly; some in IL, WI, MI.

    I also see GP reporting that Stupak will vote for pro-abort healthcare bill…wow. how disappointing to put it mildly…God help us all.

  31. Peggy R says:

    Follow-up. There was an update that Stupak is still a no, but a deal is apparently possible still I imagine.

    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/88111-report-stupak-will-vote-for-health-bill

    St. Thomas More, pray for us.

    Sorry for the many posts.

  32. JonM says:

    Something is missing from the Magisterium of the [dissenting] Nuns.

    A teaching on euthanasia. This should be troubling, especially to the nuns given the following facts.

    This healthcare take over will ration care; it has to.

    We have a highly secular, immoral, and modernist government.

    Planners have already indicated that patients would receive ratings from boards that would determine who gets the rationed care.

    Now, whether or not the nuns understand this truth I don’t know, but any public option would eventually force the vast majority off of private health plans and onto the government one (the rich will maintain a special cash system of course.)

    This amounts to de facto euthanasia.

    Modernists will insist that those 70s and up kids really cost a lot of money. And, well, they lived long lives. It’s time for them to step aside and let the most spoiled generation in history – I mean, most splendid! – take full management of society.

    Democratic leaders already commented that abortion is good because babies are darn costly. And damn if Rep. Waxman can’t be ensured a new BMW in retirement!

    And so Stupack’s stand, hollow as it ever was because it accepted the principle of the US government dictating how many times I can require medical attention, is over. Can’t wait to hear his explanation… ‘This is imperfect but will ensure care for so many suffering for now blah blah blah.’

  33. TJerome says:

    Did Geraldine say “Nuts” or “Nuns?” I agree with the comment that Bell, Book, and Candle are long overdue. I urge all of you to be very cautious where your Church donations go to. Money still talks.

  34. Peggy R says:

    Some Latino Congressman made the same claim as Ferrarro on C-SPAN. He learned well from the nuns, so he’s going with them.

    The bishops had better not let this lie.

  35. TJerome says:

    Peggy R, I wouldn’t hold my breath. I generally refer to our bishops as the “steak and eggs” bishops. They are not the stuff martyrs are made of. When they could have used the full weight of the Church “we will excommunicate legislators who vote for this bill” they did not. No $$$$$ from me for the USCCB. I’m done with them.

  36. EnoughRope says:

    JonM and gloriainexcelsis: Thank you for taking the time to elaborate. It makes me dislike these bafoons even more! That interview made me furious. Geez! The nerve of that punk. We are in for hard times indeed. With friends like these….

  37. Peggy R says:

    TJerome: I am aware. This is the consequence of Notre Dame not being contended with head on. Plus 40 years of tolerating dissent and the longstanding ties with the Party of Death, which has not been with the Church on life for a few decades now.

  38. catholicmidwest says:

    Regaining our Catholic identity is not about murmuring “peace, love and blah, blah, blah” ever so much more fervently in private. It is about making it very clear to ourselves, each other and everyone else exactly what Catholicism is, and sticking to it.

    IF this is going to mean that we alienate our dissident failures–so be it. It’s past time. IF they can’t come along, then they’ll just have to stay behind. This manipulative coy crap has to end–the sooner the better. Deal with it “head on” now and let’s get this done.

  39. catholicmidwest says:

    JonM, you said, “As Roman Catholics become the commanding majority in the US, we will have to rewrite law so that it acknowledges Jesus Christ, His commandments, and His one holy and apostolic Church. Anything less would, in my view, be a failure to correctly live out the faith in the public square.”

    Excuse me but what are you drinking? I’d like some too. It’s been a bad day.

  40. catholicmidwest says:

    PS, many of “our” nuns have been off the reservation for years. I wouldn’t let most of them babysit my cat, let alone tell me how to vote on major legislation. Most of the nuns I’ve met are downright scary–I wouldn’t subject my poor cat to that kind of abuse. I like that cat.

  41. JonM says:

    @ CatholicMidwest and Brown,

    I’m going by pure demographics. Americans, like Europeans, have stopped having children. Most likely, there will continue to be a significant ethnic exchange, legally or illegally. BabyBoomers will continue to retire leaving GenX (yo, dawg!) and, God help us, Millenials, to somehow pay for golden years chock full of cruises, trips to India, and vinyard investing.

    I do have an Economics degree. More importantly, I did pay attention in Ms. Mongey’s 4th grade math class.

    It is impossible to pay for all of the government programs, fight elective wars, and more importantly combat Islamicism.

    Class of 2009 college grads are enjoying an 80% unemployment rate. 8 – 0. (This is according to a recent disussion on Bloomberg, not the fraternity house pre-game event.)

    The solution will, likely, be to allow Latino’s to come through unofficially so they don’t fall under labor protection and wage laws and can be intimidated into doing whatever the megacorp wants done. This will last a little while, but break far sooner than the wonks who gave us Credit Crunch 2008 think.

    I know, I know. Latinos are shedding the faith like a Sheltie in Summer. However, I posit that in 25 years Protestantism will have used up the last bit of wick it ever had of its forgotten baptismal candle. So it will be a battle between secularism and the Church. Many of those Latinos undergoing Americanization will be more indifferent to religion than hostile.

    Furthermore, as the economy worsens (and it will – look for another round of bank bailouts in 2011 or 2013) people will become disillusioned with the media, big corporations, and pop culture in general. So I expect that religion will actually have a bit up resurrgance.

    As an American of European ethnicity, I can just look at my own family and see that only the Italians have children. Of course they are not even replacing the previous two generations.

    So I’m deadreckoning a bit, but my crude astrolabe suggests that at this course, by 2050, Catholics will be the dominant religious bloc.

    Sorry for this daschund hole… and definitely, if anyone has conflicting data, please share.

    NB: I never said that the majority of the country will be TLM goers who pray the Rosary daily and go to Confession once a month – just that they will be Catholic!

  42. Did anyone find a youtube video of this exchange between Santorum and Ferraro?

  43. I once prayed that God would eliminate heresy and dissension in the Church here in America, and the Holy Spirit seemed to reply: “Do you know you are praying for persecution.” I now pray for conversions instead of housecleaning though it takes grace and effort. FWIW.