Küng calls for – wait for it – DISSENT!

When I see articles about Fr. Hans Küng, I am tempted simply to make popcorn and enjoy the show.

Question to the readers: How long will it take before Fishwrap has some piece which refers approvingly to Küng’s latest?

Here is a taste the reportage from The Guardian:

Catholic theologian preaches revolution to end church’s ‘authoritarian’ rule
Hans Küng urges confrontation from the grassroots to unseat pope and force radical reform at Vatican

Kate Connolly in Tübingen

One of the world’s most prominent Catholic theologians has called for a revolution from below to unseat the pope and force radical reform at the Vatican. [Remember my post about the nuns with scaling ladders at the Vatican’s walls?  HERE]

Hans Küng is appealing to priests and churchgoers to confront the Catholic hierarchy, [Priests are part of the hierarchy.] which he says is corrupt, lacking credibility and apathetic to the real concerns of the church’s members. [In a way, I agree with this.  The overriding concern of the clergy should be to keep as many souls out of hell as possible, rather than serving up a steady stream of self-affirming pabulum.]

In an exclusive interview with the Guardian, Küng, who had close contact with the pope when the two worked together as young theologians, described the church as an “authoritarian system” with parallels to Germany’s Nazi dictatorship. [I invoke Godwin’s Law!]

“The unconditional obedience demanded of bishops who swear their allegiance to the pope when they make their holy oath is almost as extreme as that of the German generals who were forced to swear an oath of allegiance to Hitler,” he said. [ROFL!]

The Vatican made a point of crushing any form of clerical dissent, he added. “The rules for choosing bishops are so rigid that as soon as candidates emerge who, say, stand up for the pill, or for the ordination of women, they are struck off the list.” The result was a church of “yes men”, almost all of whom unquestioningly toed the line.

“The only way for reform is from the bottom up,” [This will send a thrill up the leg of the editor of the Fishwrap.] said Küng, 84, who is a priest. “The priests and others in positions of responsibility need to stop being so subservient, to organise themselves and say that there are certain things that they simply will not put up with anymore.”

[…]

I’m going to miss this guy.  I sincerely hope he is crazy so that he doesn’t go to hell.

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Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
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42 Responses to Küng calls for – wait for it – DISSENT!

  1. contrarian says:

    Yeah, I think he’s losing it. If he was quoted correctly in this article, then he’s starting to sound unhinged.

  2. Phil_NL says:

    Isn’t northern Mali in need of a new nuncio? I hear that they have a nice party there lately, protesting against their local version of ‘hierarchy’ and coming up with altogether new ways of doing things…. (well, new, recylced from 1300 odd years ago, but who’s counting)

  3. “One of the world’s most prominent Catholic theologians”

    ROFLOL!!!

  4. Jack Orlando says:

    The SSPX is in de facto schism for defying papal authority. Surely this guy is as well. Canon 751, call your office.

  5. Scott W. says:

    His hollow world-view is circling the drain, so it’s now or never for dissenters.; but frankly, it’s at least twenty years too late. All any Catholic with two neurons to rub together need do is look at at the smouldering piles of rubble that used to be mainstream Protestantism to realize that embracing Leftist therapeutic deism is not a prescription for growth.

  6. FloridaJoan says:

    still praying, hoping, and trying to NOT worry

  7. thefeds says:

    Let’s all say a prayer of Thanksgiving for the Swiss Guard!

  8. chantgirl says:

    Frankly, I’d be happy if the Vatican did a little more crushing of clerical dissent. The process of crushing dissent seems to move at a glacial speed. Perhaps the crushing of the dissent from the LCWR could be sped up too.

  9. thomas tucker says:

    Doesn ‘t he know that ‘s already been done?
    It ‘s called Protestantism.
    He should check it out.

  10. jilly4ski says:

    Not going to lie, but this made me laugh. So he wants lay people to rise up and what? forcibly remove the pope from Saint Peter’s? From the Vatican State? I would like to know how we are suppose to do that? Is he going to pay for our plane tickets so we can all go there and protest outside the Vatican? Not to mention if I don’t like the Pope or hierarchy I can go around the corner to my local episcopal church for more lenient hierarchy, or if I don’t want hierarchy at all there is always the local unitarian church.

    I wonder if the Church is giving him some leeway on his dissent because of his age and condition of his mind?

  11. Long-Skirts says:

    Fr. Hans Kung said:

    “The rules for choosing bishops are so rigid that as soon as candidates emerge who, say, stand up for the pill, or for the ordination of women, they are struck off the list.”

    “TO
    MEN
    OF
    GOOD
    WILL”

    There can be no peace
    If not of good will.
    There can be no race
    For those who stand still.

    Only she –
    Full of grace
    Was the miracle
    Set in place.

    To magnify
    Her soul prepared
    By God her spirit –
    Never ensnared.

    “Blessed art thou…”
    Gabriel hailed
    And at that moment
    The enemy railed.

    For he remembered
    In the garden free
    Between him and a woman
    Enmity.

    But who the woman?
    God did not tell
    Then Gabriel’s “Ave”
    Shook the depths of Hell.

    And Satan screamed
    Turned on a wing
    To offer some peace
    And will good to a King.

    “Peace.” Herod said,
    “And yes good will…
    I’ve a right to my reign,
    If some Innocents I kill!”

  12. asperges says:

    The Guardian is the lay equivalent of the Tablet – although considerably better informed and more interesting – and also much read by the clergy.

    “The rules for choosing bishops are so rigid that as soon as candidates emerge who, say, stand up for the pill, or for the ordination of women, they are struck off the list.” I can think of a few who got through even so!

  13. deliberatejoy says:

    “The rules for choosing bishops are so rigid that as soon as candidates emerge who, say, stand up for the pill, or for the ordination of women, they are struck off the list.”

    That’s rigidity? (perplexed) This *is* the Holy Catholic Church we’re talking on, not Priests without Borders (or Orders, or Any Sense of Obvious Morality…)

  14. Dismas says:

    In the interest of relevance and ecumenism, I wonder if it’s not too late for the the Crown Nominations Commission of the Church of England to include Fr. Hans Küng to the list of candidates for Archbishop of Canterbury?

  15. iPadre says:

    Kung has a very long history of Alzheimer’s. He can’t remember what it means to be Catholic.

  16. Joseph-Mary says:

    To conform to Jesus Christ, Son of God, and our Redeemer and Savior it is important to remember this: “And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.” (Phil 2:8)

  17. ray from mn says:

    I’m embarrassed to admit that after having read tens of thousands of internet articles over the years, I had never heard of “Godwin’s Law.” Here it is, and it is beautiful, simple, and oh, so correct:
    “Godwin observed that, given enough time, in any online discussion—regardless of topic or scope—someone inevitably makes a comparison to Hitler and the Nazis.”

    I hope and pray that given all my effort in reading all those articles,and commenting on many of them, some day there will be a “Marshall’s Law.”

  18. Sissy says:

    I think he should have waited for October 31st to publish his call for reformation, er, revolution.

  19. acardnal says:

    Kung’s pronouncements remind me of another dissenter, Martin Luther.

  20. Sissy says:

    acardnal said: “Kung’s pronouncements remind me of another dissenter, Martin Luther.”

    You and I are on the same wavelength, acardnal!

  21. Clinton says:

    The Vatican made a point of crushing any form of clerical dissent…

    Kung has a peculiar idea of what constitutes ‘crushing’. Anyone else remember how, back
    in September 2005, the new Pope Benedict XVI had Fr. Kung over for a four-hour meeting
    over dinner? Oh, the humanity!

  22. catholicmidwest says:

    “which he says is corrupt, lacking credibility and apathetic to the real concerns of the church’s members.”

    I agree with you, Fr Z. The Church is corrupt and for the reasons you cite. [?!?… Ummm…. read it, please. I’ll remove the rest of your comment now…]

  23. Phil_NL says:

    Anyone else remember how, back in September 2005, the new Pope Benedict XVI had Fr. Kung over for a four-hour meeting over dinner? Oh, the humanity!

    Who’s to say that Kung enjoyed that dinner? Or perhaps the Holy Father needed to know how much venom there was still to expect from that quarter? Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.

  24. catholicmidwest says:

    Somebody up-thread mentioned Martin Luther. This is pertinent to the discussion we’re having. Luther wasn’t an intellectual, but rather an impulsive troubled man who got hung up on corruption in the Church and was used by other parties. It was an entirely complicated and sad affair. I’m not an apologist for Luther either, but when the Church is corrupt, and also ambiguous about what she’s trying to do, and falls into some of these messes that she occasionally does, like the Kirchensteuer or the grant-seeking above all attitude, the door opens for real trouble. Something like the Kirchensteuer business is what set off Luther’s revolt in the first place, which then took off with a life of its own.

    The probability is high that some priests in Germany will continue to administer the Sacraments to those who refuse to pay taxes, in defiance of their bishops. Other things are also increasingly probable. I’m not sure where it’s going to go.

  25. robtbrown says:

    I wonder whether Rev Fr Küng drove his Porsche to the interview.

  26. PhilipNeri says:

    Kung = YAWN.

    Who cares?

    Fr. Philip Neri, OP

  27. yatzer says:

    therapeutic deism=cool term

  28. Girgadis says:

    The Vatican made a point of crushing any form of clerical dissent, he added. “The rules for choosing bishops are so rigid that as soon as candidates emerge who, say, stand up for the pill, or for the ordination of women, they are struck off the list.” The result was a church of “yes men”, almost all of whom unquestioningly toed the line.

    What he describes as “clerical dissent” is more aptly defined as heresy, no?

  29. AnnAsher says:

    Popcorn. Indeed. I’m almost bored with dissenters these days. Sorry to be crass. Today I feel like good riddance, go be Methodist.

  30. benedetta says:

    Funny he makes no mention of the liberal nazis and totalitarians in our midst…correct me if I’m wrong but if you stand up for the gospel of life in some places you make fun of as being someone who never does anything about the babies or some such twaddle…and worse yet, in some places if you stand up for life you get the strong arm silencing treatment. Are the dissenters not marching in lockstep eternally and is there not a parallel hierarchy in that universe? There sure is and that one lacks the validity of the magisterium or apostolic succession. That one functions only within the dictatorship of relativism.

  31. jessicahoff says:

    Only the Guardian (or the Tablet) would consider him a leading Catholic theologian. When was the last time he taught Catholicism?

  32. VexillaRegis says:

    Already as a child in the 70’s I found Küng and his ideas creepy and scary! I didn’t know exactly why. God often seems to give his small friends an instinctive sense of what the Truth is, even though their theological knowledge is limited. So I waited, with anguish and sadness, all my childhood and adolescence for the Church to be reformed into something more “Küngisch”- I thought they would take my Love (the Church) away. But it didn’t happen, thanks to God’s promises to his Church!

    I too hope that Küng and his fellows do not know what they are doing!

  33. APX says:

    @jilly4ski
    I wonder if the Church is giving him some leeway on his dissent because of his age and condition of his mind?

    I can’t help but wonder if maybe he has dementia. My grandma has it, and the things that come into her mind aren’t that far off from this. Same with another woman I had the pleasure of dealing with one day who was convinced her neighbour’s Halloween decor were demons who came to life at night and terrorized her. Dementia is a terrible thing.

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  35. JacobWall says:

    Unfortunately for Kung, he has already been reduced to a type of “Personality in the Catholic Combox”:

    Devout Catholic. One of my faves. Devout Catholic almost always starts off his comment by saying ‘I am a devout Catholic, but…’ and then Devout Catholic will proceed to say why we need to ordain women and allow gays to marry. (See also Pelosi Syndrome.) What Devout Catholic fails to recognize is that actual devout Catholics typically don’t describe themselves that way. There are also variants of Devout Catholic to look out for. They begin comments by saying things like ‘I was an altar boy, but…’ or ‘I studied Latin in school, but….’ Don’t be fooled, they are just like Devout Catholic, only with fewer IQ points.”

    (For the rest, see Pat Archibold at the National Catholic Register, http://www.ncregister.com/blog/pat-archbold/personalities-of-the-catholic-combox)

    Along with others like James Carroll, Kung represents a grossly overblown variant of the “Devout Catholic” comboxer who takes great pride in having themselves introduced as a Catholic Priest, former Catholic Priest or “leading Catholic Theologian, who was a peer of Joseph Ratzinger;” the overly exaggerated emphasis of their credentials to speak for the Catholic faith is always followed by a comment, article or even an entire book contradicting the very basics of Catholicism. Usually, if they need to draw people’s attention to their role a as a priest, “Catholic writer” or “Catholic theologian,” you can probably guess that that fact is not at all obvious in what they say.

    (People like Garry Wills are still trying to build up enough credentials to join this group. Failing “priest,” “expriest”, “theologian” or anything of similar strength, he is reduced to being introduced as “A practicing Catholic who attended seminary for a time, prays the rosary, and even goes to mass, but …” Imagine that? He goes Mass? He must be pretty close to being named the Pope!)

    My question, why did someone like Krug have to go to all the work of becoming an academic theologian in very prestigious university, only to be the equivalent of a combox personality?

  36. asperges says:

    On the Sunday Programme BBC Radio 4 a few minutes ago, there was a recorded interview with Kung. He lauded Vatican II as a great revolution, with radical departures from the past, its openness and dialogues with other churches and then said the Pope would not be remembered “because he has done nothing.” He could easily: (1) Acknowledge all protestant orders; (2) admit divorcees to Communion; (3) allow birth control; (4) Ordain married and women priests. The hermeneutics of continuity he knows it is not true. There was a break from tradition at Vatican II and intended to be. He didn’t retract his comment to the Guardian of comparing the Bishops’ oath to the Pope with Hitler’s troops’ oath of allegiance. He repeated it. No-one, he said, should be bound to anyone but God.

    Nothing of great surprise except that this man is considered not only a Catholic but a “leading theologian.” He is always at the end of a telephone line or microphone. I suppose we shall get nothing but this nonsense now for weeks as we “celebrate” 50 years of Vatican II. It might be possible to hear the BBC programme abroad on a podcast in a few hours. It is called “Sunday” and the BBC link is http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/downloads/ .

  37. vetusta ecclesia says:

    On the same BBC programme HK said that the Council “fulfilled all my demands”. Who does he think he is?!

  38. Random Friar says:

    Perhaps when the Holy Father had Fr. Kung over for dinner he had him sit…

    IN THE COMFY CHAIR! No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

  39. VexillaRegis says:

    @Random Friar: ROFL! I just had an idea: Instead of “Nuns on a bus”, they could call themselves “LCWR’s Flying Circus”.

    Sorry, back on the topic.

  40. Johnno says:

    Sadly the reporters will turn to people like Kung for commentary about Catholic morality before they will ever ask a member of the SSPX. After all “THE VATICAN” have said “ALL Traditionalists Groups are schismatics” amirite? That’s what’s going to happen. Up is Down, Black is White, Heresy is authentic Catholic doctrine, vaguries are definitions, rebellion is God’s Will, God is perpetual change and evolution, and on the sorry sad spate of affairs goes…

  41. Augustin57 says:

    Why hasn’t Kung just been laicized and excommunicated yet? He’s certainly earned it.

  42. SimonDodd says:

    Augustin57, I have to assume that it’s because the Holy Father knows full well that that’s precisely what he wants. Isn’t it obvious that he wants it? He keeps upping the voltage on his comments, practically begging for excommunication so that he can play the martyr card. Why give him the satisfaction—why give him the platform—when a higher authority than the Vatican will permanently excommunicate Mr. Kung in a very, very short time?