Reason #28867 for Summorum Pontificum

The folks who organize the education conference in L.A. are going to be sooooo jealous.

You might need to turn the sound down after a little bit.  I will not be blamed if your ears start to bleed.

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About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
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96 Responses to Reason #28867 for Summorum Pontificum

  1. joecct77 says:

    There is many a wedding I’ve been to where I thought the “Circus March” would be appropriate for the entrance procession.

  2. Sissy says:

    I think this one doesn’t just take the prize, it officially retires the cup. I love the close-ups of the roller blades on the marble floors.

  3. AnnAsher says:

    I can not say what I want to say.

  4. Well, at least the music isn’t the original soundtrack.

  5. Widukind says:

    Where was this?

  6. The Astronomer says:

    Disrespect for Our Lord and His Holy Church on a scale this egregious is like spiritually participating in the Scourging at the Pillar.

    (somewhere, somehow…the line has to be drawn…wake me up when this nightmare is over)

  7. wmeyer says:

    Makes me yearn for a simple clown Mass.

  8. Will D. says:

    The event took place somewhere in Brazil. All of the information (and the nearly unanimously negative comments) on the YouTube page were in Portuguese, which I can’t read.

    As for the “angels,” they reminded me of one of my Methodist brother-in-law’s pet peeves. He hates kitschy, cutesy images of angels: “Angels always say in the bible ‘Be not afraid,’ not ‘Be not nauseated.’”

  9. Sissy says:

    The word “Brazil” popped out of several comments over on Youtube.

  10. Therese says:

    “Where was this?”

    Brazil. “The novena was presided over by Bishop Aloysius Gonzaga Silva Pepeu,” according to the YouTube description. He was appointed in 2001.

  11. My Lord … this cannot be a real Catholic Mass …. Please for the love of Christ this is a Lutheran, Low Anglican, Episcopalean, etc … Mass. Worse case, someone please report this to the Vatican CDF NOW!

    On the brightside, the crowd looked board and displeased and full of grey hairs.

  12. Joseph says:

    The destruction of peoples faith marches on unabated. Is anybody in charge still (at least here on earth)?

  13. iPadre says:

    I was disappointed. The circus act needed colored flashing lights.

    We have a long way to go! It will take more than Summorum to fix all of this.

  14. Late for heaven says:

    Jesus wept.

  15. Sword40 says:

    Lord have mercy on us ! I need a “transfusion”. I bled out listening to this “thing”.

  16. AnAmericanMother says:

    Will D,

    C.S. Lewis said that angels in the Bible say, “Fear not!” while Victorians angels say, “There, there.”

    These ‘angels’ seem to be saying “Hubba! Hubba!” or Portuguese equivalent . . .

    This is not only tacky, it’s sacrilege.

  17. Theodore says:

    Float and costumes that didn’t make the Carnaval? Waste not, want not.

  18. Laura98 says:

    I’m with AnnAsher … I can’t say what I would like to say. Fr.Z would surely ban me for life. ;)

  19. Darren says:

    I can’t put it any better than was stated by The Astronomer, “Disrespect for Our Lord and His Holy Church on a scale this egregious is like spiritually participating in the Scourging at the Pillar.”

    Only this is worse as this was perpetrated by Catholics who are supposed to know and understand…

    Disrespectful.
    Disgusting.
    Disgraceful.

    Downright evil…

  20. MarnieBarcelona says:

    What possessed them? No, really! What demon possessed them for this could only be the work of the evil one.

  21. Trad Tom says:

    Oh, my God……..said as a prayer of supplication or reparation. I simply cannot believe what I saw in that video.

  22. Father G says:

    Yes, it’s awful and hilarious at the same time to watch, but a few clarifications:

    1) From the other videos I have been able to see, it is not a Mass , but a solemn novena. The bishop and priests shown in the various videos are wearing copes, not chasubles.
    2) It takes place at the Basilica of the National Shrine of Our Lady of Aparecida in Brazil.
    3) It’s part of a solemn novena for the feast of Our Lady of Aparecida on October 12.
    4) At least they didn’t bring in the Blessed Sacrament in the same way they brought the Bible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYv5HFHJ4sM

  23. contrarian says:

    Worst. Circus. Ever.

  24. mamajen says:

    I got about 3/4 of the way through and my laptop spontaneously shut itself off.

  25. scarda says:

    Allow me to cheer you all up with the reminder that this is the 1280 th anniversary of Charles Martel’s victory over Islam at Tours. There are still victories awaiting us.

  26. nemo says:

    Gracious! I used to enjoy playing “Thunder and Blazes,” but I have never heard anything so out of tune!

  27. rcg says:

    My irrational fear of clowns has been replaced by fear of EMHC….

  28. acardnal says:

    Aaaahh . . . and in this circus environment I almost missed the elephant in the room: the bishop who can be see at approx. 3:59 min mark. I wonder if this is the same Brazilian bishop who was recently removed from service by the Holy See after photographs of him cavorting with his girl friend on the beaches of Mexico were printed in the press. If not, we have another episcopal candidate for dismissal.

  29. St. Louis IX says:

    The questions that beg to be asked
    How do Religious that have given their life to God, through Holy Vows : Embrace these events as Holy and Worship of God?

    Why do so many Religious in the Holy Catholic Church embraced this horror show as something good?

  30. PostCatholic says:

    I got a good chuckle at these people dressed in ridiculous costumes behaving oddly because they hold strange beliefs.

  31. acardnal says:

    Correction to above: the bishop recently removed from his diocese was from Argentina not Brasil.

  32. Denis says:

    They are celebrating their status as 100% regularized Catholics. And 100% regularized is exactly what they are, because they pass with flying colors the only doctrinal test that matters these days: they have never, for a single moment, thought bad thoughts about the Second Vatican Council.

  33. RomanticTradition says:

    This would seem out of place in a Evangelical Praise and Worship Concert!

  34. St. Louis IX says:

    Things like this make Traditional Catholics (so-called) ask; How could so many Religious be that wrong?
    Is this how we are supposed to embrace Vat 2 and its decrees?
    These are the obedient children, and we are the disobedient?

  35. Saint Barnum of Bailey: Pray for us!
    Our Lady of the Big Top: Intercede for us!

  36. Sieber says:

    That was “Entrance of the Gladiators.”
    Should be played on a steam calliope (pronounced Cally- Ohp, if you don’t want the Carnys to think they’re being high hatted by the rubes)

  37. Jim says:

    I don’t see what the fuss is about. There are many things for a traditionalist to like
    The ladies had dresses of sober length
    They wore head coverings
    Organ music predominated
    The Deacon wore a dalmatic, rather than a simple stole

    Let’s build on the positives

  38. Michelle F says:

    It doesn’t matter whether the event was a Mass, a novena, or any other type of liturgical or paraliturgical event. This was simply the mocking of God, and of the Catholic Church.

    This event was so evil that I really don’t know what to think. I might need a therapist. They, starting with their bishop, most certainly need an exorcist.

  39. Ben Yanke says:

    Good grief.

    Let me go puke, I’ll be back in a second.

  40. Moro says:

    Dear God, deliver me from ever having to experience such a thing.

  41. muckemdanno says:

    I kinda like the techno carnival music!

  42. asophist says:

    I’m trying to reason about this, although my gut reaction was one of disbelief, followed by horror. But I think that since the Novus Ordo celebrations that these people have become accustomed to are probably so banal, that the people have lost the true sense of how to celebrate liturgically. The only form of celebration that they know any more is the secular form, which this travesty reflects. If it weren’t for the fact that this was in a Catholic church, I would have laughed. Context is everything, as the wag said.

  43. Marianna says:

    That was so bad I was laughing… in a mixture of disbelief and despair. Are they trying to compete with the Evangelical churches that have taken hold in Brazil?

  44. Bea says:

    Synod of Bishops in Rome?
    To study as to why attendance is down?

    Can somebody, anybody send this video to them?

    5 minutes of watching this will give them more food for thought than the 3 weeks they have scheduled of talks.

    Jesus wept.
    I wept.
    It’s to cry for.
    We are all weeping and no one to wipe away our tears or mend our broken hearts.
    How in heaven’s name can they give an accounting to God for this “circus performance”?
    It’s certainly not a Mass or anything that comes close to honoring God.
    AMDG +
    Unbelievable.

  45. gviele says:

    Why am I not surprised?

  46. OrthodoxChick says:

    Anyone else find themselves chanting along to the familiar tune, “Dut-dut-duh-duh-duh-duh-dut-dut-duh-duh, afro circus, afro circus!

    In all the excitement, they forgot the rainbow wigs.

  47. eulogos says:

    Was the music the “original soundtrack”? Or added to ridicule the event? It is hard to imagine someone choosing this music for a religious event, even someone so benighted as to arrange the rest of this.
    I know Gerard Manley Hopkins said, “One is always finding bad taste in the accessories of Catholicism” but I don’t think he could ever have envisioned this!

    Susan Peterson

  48. FloridaJoan says:

    Please, someone tell me it isn’t real ! But a terribly bad nightmare. :-(

  49. joan ellen says:

    Oh, Dear Lord. Lately, I’m finding my most consolation in Rosaries and Bricks. These kinds of sufferings and penances hurt.

  50. norancor says:

    Man, I thought the smoking cauldrons in LA were bad. I take solace in the fact this was not a valid Mass.

  51. pledbet424 says:

    This kind of thing is what drove my mother into a schismatic traditionalist church.

  52. mysticalrose says:

    I can’t believe something could top puppet mass. Sadly, the circus music sounded just like the typical music at your average suburban parish.

  53. SMC-BC says:

    I wonder if someone forwarded a copy of it to the Vatican.

  54. nykash says:

    Wow — really? Who produced this, the doodlebops?

  55. Thom says:

    Flabbergasted.

  56. Pingback: This Springtime’s sure been nippy « The Orthosphere

  57. JacobWall says:

    Oh my. This beats the Anglican fashion show. This beats the liturgical dances. This even beats the jokes on the Eye of the Tiber. As Sissy said, “this one doesn’t just take the prize, it officially retires the cup.”

    Someone pointed out that this is a novena, not mass; but doesn’t word “solemn” mean something? For some reason I have trouble connecting the word “solemn” this – I’m not sure why. What’s going on with bishops in Brazil? Free Mason’s? Circus Church?

    It’s sad that this is these bishops are shepherding the country with the most Catholics in the world. As per Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholicism_in_Brazil):

    “Roman Catholicism is the largest denomination in the country, where 123 million people, or 64.6% of the Brazilian population, are self-declared Catholics. These figures makes Brazil the single country with the largest Roman Catholic community in the world.”

    But, I guess we also have to notice this: “only 20% of self-declared Catholics attend Mass and participate in church activities, according to the CNBB. Thus, Brazil also has the largest number of lapsed Catholics in the world.”

    Maybe if these bishops were more concerned about caring for their flock, and less concerned about entertaining …

  58. jflare says:

    “Lions and tigers and bears! Oh my!”

    Our wonderful video gives that line a whole new meaning, I think.
    One problem: They forgot the elephants.

    I’ll admit though, they DEFINITELY got my attention!

  59. Indulgentiam says:

    what a disgusting display of narcissism.

    [1] And Nadab and Abiu, the sons of Aaron, taking their censers, put fire therein, and incense on it, offering before the Lord strange fire: which was not commanded them. [2] And fire coming out from the Lord destroyed them, and they died before the Lord. [3] And Moses said to Aaron: This is what the Lord hath spoken:”—Leviticus 10 The punishment for liturgical abuse from the God that never changes.

    Queen of the most Holy Rosary pray for us!

  60. Absit invidia says:

    WTF?!

  61. 1catholicsalmon says:

    UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!

  62. asperges says:

    There is often a contrast between the message (which sounded conservative) and the appalling liturgy. I have noticed this on Brazilian satellite Catholic programmes. This stems simply from the post Vatican II liturgical chaos, but is not meant to be as shocking as we might find it in the US or UK.

    [BTW, replying to the comment above this posting, France would *love* to have 20% practising: they have less than 5%.]

  63. VexillaRegis says:

    Well, of course this is not appropriate in church, but at least they had clothes on and there was no provocative dancing going on either. I’m not defending this parade, but I think the bad impression stems mostly from the hidious secondary soundtrack. I wonder what music was played “IRL”.
    Why not make an experiment? Listen to an organ prelude by Bach while watching this procession. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fRCYSQCeSc Suddenly the whole thing seems rather tasteful, don’t you think? ;-)

  64. Andy Lucy says:

    “Suddenly the whole thing seems rather tasteful, don’t you think? ;-)”

    Hmmmm…. how phrase this…. well… Non… Nein… Nah… ???… ???… Ní hea… Nope… Negatory… No way… Not a chance. ;)

  65. Andy Lucy says:

    Bummer… the Greek and Cyrillic characters didn’t survive. More’s the pity.

  66. BGrace says:

    These people need to learn that one can express joy without making an ass of oneself.
    I believe I heard the devil chuckling while this video played…

  67. BGrace says:

    Chuckling with glee, that is!

  68. Imrahil says:

    Well, I actually cannot understand the outrage that has taken many commentators here. We have a celebration manifestly intended to be reverent (and thus, eo ipso, reverent); we are not talking about a Holy Mass, so neither about any liturgical laws broken; there was decidedly not any sacrilege or blasphemy.

    My ears didn’t start to bleed, either. (If anything bled, but about that later, it was the eyes.) I rather wondered how they got in Brazil this German music. Almost felt at home; joke of course, I am at home. The main tune, in fact, is the Zillertal Wedding March, which is just about the theme of folk dance around here. So, natural reaction would not be any screaming, but picking the next best girl by the arm and turn in so quick circles as to feel the centrifugal force, because, well, that’s what you do when you hear that tune. (Dance would maybe too high a word for it.) – In fact, I just looked up that the Entrance of the Gladiators was written by a Czech composer… (after all, Bohemia is the land where the form of dance and music I so boldly claimed as German, the polka, originally comes from)… that settled that riddle.

    Here’s that. What did make me wonder are a couple of other things. But, beforehand, these criticisms are criticisms of aptitude; they are not accusations of either crimes or sins with the gravity of crimes.

    For one things, well: they didn’t dance… I mean not really. The tune naturally calls for real, hilarious dancing and one of the chief arguments against the so called “liturgical dance” is that it isn’t real dancing, to be silent of hilarious. I concede they did have that interesting idea of having them skate; but that was about it. What these men that hang spider-like form from the highest balcony should stand for I don’t know; and I guess they don’t either. They do look ridiculous.

    And above all, solemn faces wherever you look. Chesterton once said “I do not like seriousness. It is the fashion of all false religions.” There was much too much seriousness in it; more, in fact, than in a normal procession with solemn music (where on has the distinct feeling that just as the barber’s job is shaving, their job is honoring God, and they’re being getting that done; I can’t put that better, sorry), or in a sermon which is a tirade. At least, if you want solemn faces, then give us music apt for that.

    Then, what’s the point in a “Bible entry” anyway? I mean if it was at the end of a Bible Week, or so, fine; but for a “solemn novena” as it seems?

    But, again, they may have offended someones’ tastes, and there are points on which to disagree with them, but unless we think (for instance) that popular(-sounding) music has ea ipsa no place in the Church (and then we would set us up against the whole musical Church history), we shouldn’t accuse them of any premeditated sacrilege or similar.

  69. Paul Lemmen says:

    While it is nice to see that Brasil has large modern church buildings and well attended Masses with all ages represented, using Fucik’s “Entry of the Gladiators” (more appropriate as the replacement for “Hail to the Chief” for President Obama) and skating ‘angels’ and a carnival ride to deliver the Gospel seems not only highly over-wrought but a severe violation of liturgical norms. What the hech were the liturgists thinking???

  70. Bryan Boyle says:

    that is just plain painful. didn’t make my ears bleed, but it took a while to put my eyeballs back in their sockets. just wow.

  71. peraltr says:

    What I want to write is… ah, I can’t… well, now I know what people with Tourrette’s syndrome feel like.

  72. Charlotte Allen says:

    Bad taste, but not irreverent and not trying to make a “progressive” political statement–unlike the Masses at the education conference. And it’s nice to see such a huge crowd at a novena. I wonder whether that was actually the music. You can’t get that kind of sound and pacing without a large, conductor-led orchestra.

  73. DisturbedMary says:

    A trapeze artist swinging a smoking thurible — now that would be the greatest show on earth.

  74. david andrew says:

    I couldn’t eat the amount I want to vomit.

    Then I read some of the above comments actually justifying or excusing this disgusting, blasphemous mockery of our public prayer life, and I managed to get enough down.

    Now if the waiter would please bring me a wafer-thin mint . . .

  75. Jeff says:

    Watching this made me want to punch the nearest person in the face.

  76. heway says:

    I don’t imagine that the Lord feels mocked or any of the other ridiculous things I’ve read above. He may see them as ‘little children’, not a sophisticated as we are…..”different strokes for different folks”

  77. Sissy says:

    heway: do you think He was pleased? Was this a good example for Catholics to set for protestants and non-believers? Are Catholics held to a higher standard? I believe St. Paul had something to say about people who insisted upon remaining children in the faith, still drinking milk long after they should have matured to spiritual meat.

  78. Angie Mcs says:

    I don’t know what to say about this video, I’m really at a loss for words.
    But there are some highly amusing comments here. Thanks for the laughter through the tears.

  79. Sissy says:

    I’ve read a couple of commenters say that they saw “solemn faces” and that the people seemed to be reverent. I watched a second time, and all I saw was a lot of people grinning and holding up their cell phones to take photographs. It appeared to be much more an entertainment than a novena. In fact, Youtube has it classified as “entertainment”, so I don’t think I’m the only one who got that impression.

  80. Imrahil says:

    Dear @Sissy,

    St. Paul had say something to such people, but not that they are blasphemers and have done everything wrong they could possibly go wrong, have restarted the Flagellation of Our Lord, have mocked our prayer, etc. Come on. Please.

    Two points on my ambiguous phrases:
    I said that they were reverent because they (to me obviously) intended to do worship to God. I meant reverent in the sense that a man reverently drinks a pint of beer. I did not mean reverent in the sense of funless; if there is indeed any legitimate meaning of reverent which is funless. I am not of the opinion that fun, and entertainment, has no place in the Church. Indeed my own criticism was that it was meant to be fun and was not; that it was meant to be entertainment and entertained mainly the ashamedness-for-others instinct.

    I said that they (not the audience which I did not look at, but the participants) had solemn faces but that was a point of criticism. To a music like this solemn faces are out of place.

    Dear @david andrews, if you mean (among others) me: I’m sorry that, by not being able to condemn in whole and pieces something just because it is certainly not among higher and more spiritual forms of worship, offends in some parts Western taste, in some others (I guess) general human taste, and is rather strange as a whole, I caused your overly sickness.

  81. Gail F says:

    I’m surprised at the people here who say this was evil. Incredibly stupid? I’ll give you that!
    Some other funny comments as well. It is interesting to know what people really thing, versus what you imagine they think.

  82. Sissy says:

    Imrahil said: “St. Paul had say something to such people, but not that they are blasphemers and have done everything wrong they could possibly go wrong”

    I read all the comments, and I didn’t see any about “blasphemy”; maybe I missed it. I also did not see any solemn faces on the participants, either….they were all grinning, too. The whole thing was inappropriate for a “solemn novena” inside of a church. Had it been a festival held out in the churchyard, I would think it was cute. I don’t think it was evil. I think it was juvenile and misguided. But there really isn’t any “bright side” to this spectacle, so I see no point in trying to defend it on any grounds. It was a really bad idea.

  83. sirlouis says:

    Once again, watch Federico Fellini’s “Roma.” Compare the clerical fashion show in that movie with this video. Fellini would be devastated. How can you satirize something that has gone and satirized itself?

  84. netokor says:

    I will attend the Latin Mass as long as it is offered. We participate quietly in the absolute and reverent worship of the Holy Sacrifice with no noise or distractions. This Mass also points to the devotion with which we should approach other practices. God should always be the focus, never us and our displays, some of which are utterly maniacally insane, like the one in this video.

  85. Christbearer316 says:

    There are simply no words to decribe the horror recorded above.

  86. Christopher says:

    What? No bear on a unicycle? No lion in a cage tamed with a chair and a whip?

    Gail F:
    I’m surprised at the people here who say this was evil. Incredibly stupid? I’ll give you that!

    Definetly a mockery of the Mass which surely is a Sin, I’d say Evil. Incredibly stupid? Definetly.

    God Bless,

    Christopher.

  87. Imrahil says:

    Dear @Sissy,

    dear @david andrew spoke of blasphemous mockery, dear @MarcieBalona diagnosed demonic possession, dear @Michelle F judged that the event was so evil that I really don’t know what to think, and dear @Late for heaven said that Jesus wept, where I think that – if we do go for guesses at the Lord’s feelings at all – only a “Jesus sighed” would probably be appropriate.

    They did smile, yes.

    On another point:
    Are Catholics held to a higher standard?
    In a sense, yes, but that concerns morality. (And even then in a sense. All the practically pressing obligations are theoretically for all men alike by nature.) It does not concern cultural refinement. Except perhaps indirectly via morality, perhaps, yes, to some degree, but may I for clarity’s sake express my meaning in an example and say: There is no Catholic commandment, not even under the slightest sin, never to go to ball games because there are after all operas.

  88. BLB Oregon says:

    If there has ever been a bigger gap between actual effect and what we have to hope was the presumed intent in the history of all things liturgical, I hope I never see it.

    It reminds me of a quote from Black Beauty

    After a short pause John said slowly, “You must not be too hard upon me, Tom. I know he meant no harm, I never said he did; I know he is not a bad boy. But you see, I am sore myself; that horse is the pride of my heart, to say nothing of his being such a favorite with the master and mistress; and to think that his life may be flung away in this manner is more than I can bear. But if you think I am hard on the boy I will try to give him a good word to-morrow — that is, I mean if Beauty is better.”

    “Well, John, thank you. I knew you did not wish to be too hard, and I am glad you see it was only ignorance.”

    “Only ignorance! only ignorance! how can you talk about only ignorance? Don’t you know that it is the worst thing in the world, next to wickedness? — and which does the most mischief heaven only knows. If people can say, `Oh! I did not know, I did not mean any harm,’ they think it is all right. I suppose Martha Mulwash did not mean to kill that baby when she dosed it with Dalby and soothing syrups; but she did kill it, and was tried for manslaughter.”

    “And serve her right, too,” said Tom. “A woman should not undertake to nurse a tender little child without knowing what is good and what is bad for it.”

    “Bill Starkey,” continued John, “did not mean to frighten his brother into fits when he dressed up like a ghost and ran after him in the moonlight; but he did; and that bright, handsome little fellow, that might have been the pride of any mother’s heart is just no better than an idiot, and never will be, if he lives to be eighty years old. You were a good deal cut up yourself, Tom, two weeks ago, when those young ladies left your hothouse door open, with a frosty east wind blowing right in; you said it killed a good many of your plants.”

    “A good many!” said Tom; “there was not one of the tender cuttings that was not nipped off. I shall have to strike all over again, and the worst of it is that I don’t know where to go to get fresh ones. I was nearly mad when I came in and saw what was done.”

    “And yet,” said John, “I am sure the young ladies did not mean it; it was only ignorance.”

  89. Hidden One says:

    I look forward to being informed that the CDW knows about this.

  90. Michelle F says:

    As one who called the event “evil,” I think I should clarify my statement.

    What prompted me to call it “evil” was the way the Bible was carried into the Church in procession: held by a lady spinning on top of something that resembled a carnival carousel, complete with riders. I believe this is a mockery of the traditional procession of the ministers and Gospel Book into the Sanctuary at the beginning of Mass. I also believe that the idea for this carnival carousel procession was inspired by Satan and/or his minions. This does NOT mean that the people are evil, or that they had evil motives, but only that they were acting under the influence of Evil. That is also why I said all of them, including their bishop, need an exorcist.

    I also said it was a mockery of God as well as the Church because I believe that God has led the Church to craft a liturgy which leads the human soul into a proper understanding of itself and its relationship to God. By mocking the liturgy (here in the procession), one is also mocking God laterally since He has had a hand in giving us a suitable means of worshiping Him – which is our primary means of developing our relationship with Him.

    I’m also quite certain that Brazilians know the difference between a carnival atmosphere and one that is solemn and reverent, but joyous, so I don’t think we can excuse this show as a mere cultural difference.

  91. Sissy says:

    Imrahil said: “It does not concern cultural refinement. Except perhaps indirectly via morality, perhaps, yes, to some degree, but may I for clarity’s sake express my meaning in an example and say: There is no Catholic commandment, not even under the slightest sin, never to go to ball games because there are after all operas.”

    Dear Imrahil, I quite sure you know that this video has absolutely nothing to do with cultural refinement (or lack thereof) and everything to do with sacrilege.

  92. JacobWall says:

    @Asperges (about 3,422,123 comments back)

    “There is often a contrast between the message (which sounded conservative) and the appalling liturgy. I have noticed this on Brazilian satellite Catholic programmes.”

    I understand this point entirely. While their is no “appalling liturgy,” the very sound sermons and clearly orthodox teaching that I see at my home parish in Mexico contrasts drastically to the horrible music. (The words of the music are not bad – not terribly good either.) The music itself – well, now and then they get a lady up there who has pre-programmed keyboard rhythms going. (I’ve been told that homemade porn uses the same stuff. By the quality and the sound it wouldn’t surprise me.)

    Imrahil pointed out that there are “solemn” faces everywhere. I also sympathize with this point. Even in the worst liturgical musical moments I’ve seen here in Mexico, the congregation continues to show a very humble reverence.

    As bad as their music is, I see more reverence and solemnity in the faces, posture and attitude of most Mexicans in Mass than in most Canadians in Mass. Both sides need “fixing” but which one is easier to fix?

    I still believe that this Brazilian show is inappropriate (as are the pre-programmed keyboard rhythms) but perhaps misguided is a better way to describe it. There needs to be clean-up, but in the mean time we do need to see the good points (not to forgive the bad points, but to see that there is hope.) If the sermons, messages and teaching remain solid, than there is a lot to offer us hope that the rest will come. With time. We need patience.

  93. JacobWall says:

    An example following my last comment. My wife grew up in the depths of Mexican Catholic kiddy music. She sang in her parish choir for many years. She remembers the songs well, and sings them for me sometimes. Translation of one: “I have a friend who really looooooooves me, looooooooves me, looooooooves me” (repeat 3 times – sung to a very simple kiddy tune), “and his name is Jesus.”

    That’s about as deep as the Catholic hymns from her Mexican upbringing get. Wonderful isn’t it? The best I can say, is that Jesus is in fact our friend … of course the song misses a good deal of other things that Jesus is (King, Saviour, Sacrifice for our Sins, Physician, Victor over Sin, etc.) At our Canadian parish where they sing mostly traditional Protestant hymns, she was already surprised by the seriousness and the depth of them, (both lyrically and musically.) Our summer-time parish has recently started using its pipe organ more frequently (i.e. every weekend mass.) She agreed that it was nice, but at first couldn’t see that the pipe organ made it “better.”

    Finally, we made it a mass at our Cathedral in Canada (Christ the King, Hamilton). It was a beautiful NO mass with the pipe organ for the hymns; the Psalms, antiphons and other parts were beautifully chanted/sung. (I know there is better out there, but this was most certainly the most beautifully done Mass I’ve been to, and it was, in the absolute sense, very well done.)

    Walking out of the Cathedral, my wife said to me; “You’re right. The music does make a difference. Having sacred music makes Mass feel more sacred; it adds something. It’s better.”

    My wife certainly never had difficulty being reverent or feeling the solemnity of Mass, (even when a little old lady was bopping to keyboard rhythms). She’s been a good teacher for me on this side of things. However, she has now experienced the sense of sacred music and understands why it matters. (It’s worth noting that my explanations didn’t help; it was only when she experienced it personally that it “clicked.”)

    There’s hope. It’s a process. Little by little. Patience.

  94. Imrahil says:

    Dear @Sissy, dear @Michelle F,

    truth and to a degree also good taste are objective matters; but it takes intention to either produce a mockery or a sacrilege. And to me they did not look as if they were mocking; and hence, they were not mocking.

    I’m also quite certain that Brazilians know the difference between a carnival atmosphere and one that is solemn and reverent, but joyous.

    So do I. But the Brazilians maybe do not think this kind of atmosphere (which I feel is not precisely “carnival” but something else, but that’s not important here) something that while it can (perhaps) be enjoyed elsewhere it must at all costs and with no exception prevented from entering the sanctuary, as you seem to suggest; and in this I venture to say it is rather them that are right. Of course there are better and less good liturgical styles, such that are able to be standard and such that are not…

    and traditionally, the liturgical law has been rather strict about Holy Mass, and rather broad about all else. That may be so for a reason.

    Indeed one commentator here said that this event was worse than a Clown Mass. This is precisely where I disagree. For a Clown Mass (I mean not that the Pastor puts an orthodox sermon into Carnival-style verses or tells some orthodox jokes within his sermon, which I quite accept for once in a year, but a real Clown Mass) has indeed mockery of the celebrant and others – of course not because the clown appears in a profane circus, but simply because the clown’s job is by definition mockery. Here on the other hand, again, I cannot see the mockery. I can see an allusion to a circus, yes, but that is not a mockery.

  95. Admiral-GER says:

    There is a german word for such a thing:

    Fahrvergnügen!