Break out the bongs! Liturgy with Deacon Sandy. VIDEO

Everyone, go your attic or garage and find that old bong you squirreled away, dust off your guitars and mistune those strings. Tie the tie-died handband on and sit down on the floor by the coffee table. This is a blast from the past…. except that it is going on today in Milwaukee.

I have had so many emails about this that I have to do something about it now.

It was my original intention to let this pass, because this is so embarrassing that the deacon involved may never live this down. This just won’t die.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFwGRX22oeo&feature=player_embedded

This embodies some of the worst old liberal cliches inflicted on the People of God from the 70′s through the 90′s.

I invite you to hum Joy is Like the Rain as you type in the combox your favorite items!

I am sure that the Fishwrappers and LCWR-types have downloaded this as a model for their liturgy workshops.

Perhaps I should drive over the Milwaukee sometime and offer to celebrate Mass for them.

Finally, I’ll bet Dcn. Sandy is a great guy! He comes through as kind and affable. I wouldn’t mind having a beer with him. It is, after all, Milwaukee.

UPDATE:

It seems that Deacon Sandy doesn’t want people to see that video.  I can understand why.

But, he doesn’t get off scott free.  HERE

And I received this email:

Here’s a version that will not be removed: HERE

 

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123 Responses to Break out the bongs! Liturgy with Deacon Sandy. VIDEO

  1. Frank H says:

    Father, most definitively you should drive over and say Mass for them. I’ll pay for your brat and Spotted Cow!

  2. sw85 says:

    What’s funny is that he keeps saying these things make Good Shepherd “unique” but they are, like, the exact same things done in the exact same way for the exact same reasons in almost every diocesan parish in almost every diocese in the United States.

    “We like to talk before Mass!” Oh yeah, what else? Do you have any tambourinists in your ‘music ministry’? Is your ‘worship space’ round or is it really really round? Is your Resurrexifix plastic or holographic? How many dozens of felt banners do you have?

  3. sw85 says:

    (And yes I exaggerate for effect.)

  4. Matthew says:

    This is sad. I was out of town last weekend and I went to Mass at a different parish. They had a chat session before Mass started, there were women on putting the Eucharist into the tabernacle, after Mass before dismissal they had a show of hands for birthdays, new parishioners, anniversaries and the like.

    I go to Mass to go to Mass, if I want to chat I go to coffee and doughnuts either before or after Mass. Perhaps that is only in the Diocese of Buffalo where they have basements and you want a cup of coffee before heading back out into the snow.

    Video screens? I don’t want movies at Mass. This is just sad, they could cut the word Catholic from the video and sell this to the Unitarians.

  5. disco says:

    I bet the “parish director” of this awful place is ex officio the president of the Rembert Weakland fan club.

  6. Eugene says:

    I could only watch the first few minutes of this..I stopped shortly after he spoke about the first thing you notice when you enter the church is conversation, people engaging each other…if I want to do that I can stay home and talk to my family, go after mass to coffee Sunday and get caught up on the latest “gossip”…honestly at my parish the noise before Mass and right after the final hymn is becoming more and more unbearable, the church turns into a circus, all sense of worship and reverence is lost i.e. the community engaging each other i.e. talking about their latest episodes of hemorrhoids, gall bladder, lumbago etc. and the worst are the older crowd, people that should know better..much to the consternation of my youngest child I make a point of spending sometime after Mass in prayer, trying to set an example, but at most I am probably one out of 3 people and I guess it doesn’t help when our pastor usually makes a joke at the final blessing about the upcoming hockey game ( I live in Canada) or how he was able to get mass done within the hour..I guess this just sets up the crowd for the idle chatter that happens almost instantly after he is done…more fruits from the ever giving tree of Vatican II

  7. majuscule says:

    I could not get through the whole video…though I may go finish it…later. It was too painful to be hit with all those things one after the other…

    I am sorry that I did not go to church for many years–but I am fortunate that those years were the wonky years. (And I’m not at all certain that my local parish even participated in such things.)

    I’m sad that these things are still going on!

  8. Deacon Sandy has several other videos available online. One of my favorite is the person standing behind and to the side of Deacon Sandy strumming an “Alleluia” on her guitar. She looks like one of the supporters carrying the LCWR banner in that famous picture.

  9. TopSully says:

    1:23. That’s as far as I made it. Honestly I was too sad to go on when he said “one isn’t better or worse than the other” while talking about the gossiping talking instead of silence going on before Mass.

    Yes Deacon Sites, one is worse than the other.

    It wasn’t that long ago that I was under the impression that chattiness was part of Mass. After all I had experienced it almost everywhere I had ever attended Mass. Then there was the announcement of the “New Translation”. In an effort to prepare myself for the new CCD year where I was going to have to teach this topic I started doing some research. I found a web site called “What Does The Prayer Really Say” (you may have heard of it). Well this blog, and many of you commentors over the past few years have taught me a lot about what the Mass really is. And what I’m supposed to be doing there.

    And you know what, someone else must have been reading too because although we haven’t changed our Pastor a lot of the things we had been doing at our Parish that Father Z points out as just plain goofy (electric guitars, crowds of youth at the Alter during Consecration, etc.) have stopped.
    We no longer greet each other in the pews before Mass.
    We no longer take roll calls of birthdays and who’s from out of town.
    He no longer wears a football jersey over his vestments while saying Mass.
    I personally now say the Prayers Before Mass from my father’s old 1954 Missal. I now get a lot more out of Mass. BECAUSE I PUT A LOT MORE INTO MASS. Because I now realize what I should known all along, the Mass is not about ME.

  10. aegsemje says:

    Wow. That is 7 minutes of my life I will never get back! I have heard the line about standing being more reverent than kneeling before…..as Fr. Z likes to say, that is B as in B, S as in S. I also went to Mass at a church on vacation where they had real bread for Communion….crumbs everywhere! I found it very disturbing to think what happened to those crumbs, which contained the Body of Christ. Vacuum? Too awful to think about.

  11. tech_pilgrim says:

    ugh, reminds me of my college years at the Newman Center….1987 in 2001-2005….ugh.

  12. anilwang says:

    Actually I didn’t see this as a throwback to the 60s. True he is playing fast and loose with the liturgy, but this is nothing more than what goes on in many Protestant services. Yes, they’re “unique” just like every other Protestant ecclesial community. It sounds like they read the book “Rebuilt” ( http://rebuiltparish.com ) and think that the best way to prevent Protestants from drawing Catholics away is to become Protestant, and treat the GIRM as a suggestion rather than the law of the land.

    You can’t out-Protestant a Protestant…they’ll always win at being who they are. You might prevent the current generation from jumping ship, but the next generation will see what the current generation values and have no qualms about “getting the best bag for their worship-entertainment hour”. If you want people to stay Catholic, you need to focus on the strengths of the Catholic Church, namely being as Catholic a parish one can. For those who hunger for the Catholic faith, there are no other alternatives.

  13. av8er says:

    I couldn’t believe it was that long. I thought at any moment he was going to stop and kept on going and going. Wow. The comment about the crumbs from the bread is spot on.
    Is there no where written that you can’t make up your own version of the Holy Mass? There needs to be a standardization office in each diocese. If you do the red and at the black, you pass. If not, remedial training for the pastor and parishioners. A diocesan priest says Mass until retraining is complete.

  14. av8er says:

    *do the red and SAY The black.
    Sorry

  15. ClavesCoelorum says:

    “I am sure that the Fishwrappers and LCWR-types have downloaded this as a model for their liturgy workshops.”

    Oooh, I am very sure too, Father. :)

    “Perhaps I should drive over the Milwaukee sometime and offer to celebrate Mass for them.”
    Please do so, and perhaps “tie one on” and “keep calm and carry one [Biretta]“. Don’t forget to videotape it all so we can see their faces. :)

  16. Ann Roth says:

    ‘Cuz you know it’s all about us. The video was at 2 min. 54 sec. before he mentions Christ . He uses standing for the POTUS as an analogy for the respect/reverence due to Christ during the Eucharistic prayer. Good grief, all the worst of the worst. Are we sure this is not a joke? And it might be funny if souls were not lost because of it.

  17. Serviam1 says:

    Boys and Girls: It’s Ray Repp Revival!!! ;-)
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdTTPfUrkzoxIgn7ZwbQnjQ

    Shout from the Highest Mountain:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de-3tmSPk3c

  18. LarryW2LJ says:

    My takeaways:

    1) Everyone talks before Mass – no quiet time to pray and show reverence for the Blessed Sacrament.
    2) No kneelers – but we can afford large screen monitors.
    3) Standing for the Consecration, because after all, we stand for the President. Excuse me deacon, but I think the Creator of the Universe trumps POTUS (whoever he happens to be at the time). I think that is most fitting to kneel in the Presence that created me.

    I couldn’t get through the rest, and I’ll tell you right now, if I found myself inside this Church, with these things happening, I’d be inclined to walk out and find a place more suitable to worship – not socialize.

  19. lsclerkin says:

    Can’t even break out the bongs, Father. Cuz it’s a sin to intentionally get loaded.
    although if there was anything that could prompt me to unintentionally get loaded, it’s watching those horrible vids.
    So there’s not even anything pleasurable about this.

  20. PortugueseCatholic says:

    It broke my heart to watch this. Deacon Sandy appears to be a very nice man and I think even well intentioned. But good intentions about fostering community and a welcoming atmosphere to the faithful need not become an act of desecrating what is catholic. Deacon Sandy has created a Protestant church for all intents and purposes. His focus is not on highlighting the treasure that is our Catholic faith, but in embracing whimsical trends and popular measures that make him no different from any Protestant. He needs to be reprimanded by his Bishop and the parish of the Good Shepherd should be placed under administration somewhat akin to what is occurring with the Franciscans of the Immaculate.

  21. PortugueseCatholic says:

    Furthermore I think we have a responsibility to report Deacon Sandy and the Parish to the local Bishop as well as to the Vatican Nuncio. This kind of madness needs to stop.

  22. amenamen says:

    The word “unique” is often misused.

    Granted, every parish is a “unique” community, because each one is – in some way -unlike any other, just as every human being is unique and unrepeatable. But none of the various practices that were mentioned in the video make that parish “unique”. All of them are all too common.

    If everyone is special, no one is
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8I9pYCl9AQ

  23. I was so convinced this had to be intended as a comedy routine–though if you’ve ever been forcibly subjected to such liturgical abuse, the humor may fall rather flat–that I actually searched out this parish’s web site and verified that it actually does have a “parish director” who calls himself Deacon Sandy. Wouldn’t one have thought that, since the benighted tenure of Ab. Weakland in Milwaukee, subsequent more orthodox ordinaries had surely cleaned up this sort of thing?

  24. majuscule says:

    “Deacon Sandy has several other videos available online…”

    Hmmm. Does he have one on confession by any chance?

    Or has Good Shepherd done away with that?

  25. Massachusetts Catholic says:

    The making of the bread part of Deacon Sandy’s talk makes me wonder if invalid matter is used during these liturgies. That’s more serious than the idiotic talking stuff.

  26. Juho says:

    What a disappointment, “the video is private”. :)

  27. JohnE says:

    Looks like the video has been marked private, and none too soon. I was about to take a look.

  28. benedetta says:

    Is “Community Organizing” one of the myriad lay ministries one may get involved in at Good Shepherd?

  29. wmeyer says:

    Juho, consider it a grace that you (and I) have missed the vapid content.

  30. Ben Yanke says:

    I downloaded a copy of the video to my computer before it got taken down. Here it is. It can’t be embedded, but it can be viewed:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/lpyxon4ohun42qx/What%20Makes%20Good%20Shepherd%20Catholic%20Church%2C%20Menomonee%20Falls%20Both%20Catholic%20and%20Unique.avi

  31. iPadre says:

    Catholic- yeah right!

    THANK YOU Pope Benedict for Summorum Pontificum!!!

  32. Scott W. says:

    I downloaded a copy of the video to my computer before it got taken down

    A good lesson for all of us. Sunlight is a disinfectant, so it is important when nonsense appears to make a copy before it scurries into the shadows again.

  33. Midwest St. Michael says:

    Oh, my goodness. I stopped at 1:20.
    It really did have “the worst old liberal cliches”. (groan)

    Sounds like a church made in the image and likeness of… man.

    Glory to man in the highest!

    MSM

  34. aegsemje says:

    I looked at the parish website…..there is no mention at all of Confession. It looks like the parish doesn’t even offer it.

  35. cpttom says:

    Goodness gracious, it’s the same modernist BS that my parish tries…they haven’t gone this far though. This is so hookie This would be kryptonite to any devout Catholics, my kids would have run screaming from this kind of mass. If I wanted to be a new age Christian I would have become one.

    They are so consumed with the external, rather than the eternal. It is so sad. A accapella chant mass would be simpler and FAR more reverent.

  36. Jenelle says:

    I found a small mention re. confession on their bulletin –

    Reconciliation: Communal services held in Advent & Lent. Individual Reconciliation – 3:30pm Sat. in Day Chapel

    Following this saga since the video first appeared, I cannot help but repeatedly thank God for our parish and our priest. I really do feel for the people of Good Shepherd.

  37. majuscule says:

    Are you interested in the ministries at Good Shepherd? They have a brochure:

    http://www.mygoodshepherd.org/pdf%20files/GoodShepherdMinistryDirectory2012.pdf

    Would you like to be on the Funeral Baking Team?

    Bread Bakers?

    LARCUM Ecumenical Committee? (An ecumenical committee comprised of members from local Lutheran, Anglican, Roman Catholic, United Church of Christ and United Methodist churches. The purpose of the committee is to provide members of Christian faiths opportunities to meet and interact in a variety of ways. The committee meets on the first Tuesday of each month.)

    This is not meant to demean the good things they do. It’s meant in the spirit of Christian hilarity.

  38. Muv says:

    Ben Yanke, you are such a scamp. Thank you for sharing this unique video moment.

    Does Sandy ever get confused in the mornings and think his breadbin is a tabernacle? I’m very worried about this. I need a trained individual to help me break open my concerns.

  39. teomatteo says:

    “we stand out of respect, like when the President comes in”
    I just cant get the image of the Kievian kneeling before the priest in the street for confession out of my mind. And then this.

  40. Athelstan says:

    “We like to talk before Mass!”

    Before Mass, I also like to talk – to God.
    During Mass, I also like to talk, praying the Mass – to God.
    After Mass, I am more than delighted to talk with my brothers and sisters in Christ. Outside the nave. Preferably over coffee and biscuits.

    I recall visiting a parish for the first time in Florida. I decided to pray the rosary before Mass. There were no kneelers – first warning sign – so I just knelt on the floor. About three minutes in, someone came up to chat me up, oblivious to what I was trying to do. Believe it or not, it was the pastor himself. In a very chatty and jovial mood.

    I’m sure he meant well. But it was still astounding. Deacon Sandy reminds me a bit of him.

  41. benedetta says:

    There’s quite a lot of the use of the “we” and “us” and the “how we do things here” and when “you” come “you will notice” that “we”…It’s all so esoteric and unique that Deacon Sandy’s demystification is needed to comprehend the rich symbolism behind the home made bread and the *no kneelers* and the “we bow to each other” and “like the President”…and “this is because”…we are more Catholic than?

    I have always liked the universality of the sacraments of the One Holy Catholic Church. Where you can pretty much receive the sacrament anywhere in the world and you don’t need to watch a special audio visual presentation. You only need be baptized and have had a basic foundation of catechesis which has been unchanging over two thousand years.

    But what does Deacon Sandy have against confession? Perhaps they omit confession because Deacon Sandy nor the other lay ministers “at this time” are unable to provide for same.

  42. anilwang says:

    benedetta says: “There’s quite a lot of the use of the “we” and “us” and the “how we do things here”

    I wanted to mention that too. This Protestantizing of the liturgy really is a source of lay clericalism. “We” decide” how “you” will worship God subject to “our” ego and current fashion tastes. If “you” don’t like it “too bad we decided”.

    In true Catholic worship, there is no “we” deciding anything, other than deciding to be subject to the worship of our Lord in the way He deems fit.

  43. Glen M says:

    Does Deacon Sandy realize “unique” is an antonym of “catholic”?

  44. tcreek says:

    Deacon Sandy, this is why we must kneel:
    The theology of kneeling was explained by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger in the following excerpt from his book, “The Spirit of the Liturgy”. The quotes are from the chapter, “The Body and the Liturgy”.
    —-
    “There are groups, of no small influence, who are trying to talk us out of kneeling. It doesn’t suit our culture”, they say (which culture?) “It’s not right for a grown man to do this — he should face God on his feet”. Or again: “It’s not appropriate for redeemed man — he has been set free by Christ and doesn’t need to kneel any more”. …

    “Kneeling does not come from any culture — it comes from the Bible and its knowledge of God. The central importance of kneeling in the Bible can be seen in a very concrete way. The word proskynein alone occurs fifty-nine times in the New Testament, twenty-four of which are in the Apocalypse, the book of the heavenly Liturgy, which is presented to the Church as the standard for her own Liturgy.” …

    “I have lingered over these texts, because they bring to light something important. In the two passages that we looked at most closely, the spiritual and bodily meanings of proskynein are really inseparable. The bodily gesture itself is the bearer of the spiritual meaning, which is precisely that of worship. Without the worship, the bodily gesture would be meaningless, while the spiritual act must of its very nature, because of the psychosomatic unity of man, express itself in the bodily gesture.”…

    “The two aspects are united in the one word, because in a very profound way they belong together. … Worship is one of those fundamental acts that affect the whole man. That is why bending the knee before the presence of the living God is something we cannot abandon.

    The man who learns to believe learns also to kneel, and a faith or a liturgy no longer familiar with kneeling would be sick at the core. Where it has been lost, kneeling must be rediscovered, so that, in our prayer, we remain in fellowship with the apostles and martyrs, in fellowship with the whole cosmos, indeed in union with Jesus Christ Himself.

  45. ThankyouB16 says:

    THANK YOU anilwang!
    May I invite all readers of this blog to check out Fr. Michael White’s book “Rebuilt: Awakening the Faithful, Reaching the Lost, and Making Church Matter“? I first heard the author on Sirius’s “The Catholic Channel,” and much to my dismay, popular evangelist Matthew Kelly, Cardinal Dolan and Archbishop Lori give blurb-endorsements to the book. Actually, Cardinal Dolan writes the forward. The publisher’s summary says it all, beginning: “Drawing on the wisdom gleaned from thriving mega-churches and innovative businesses leaders…” This apparently includes marketing your church to people by offering, among other things, TV screens, a rock band, and a cafe in the vestibule to encourage those who are yet too timid to make it to Mass. Whatever the good will of the author(s); whatever the great increase in Mass attendance at his parish; whatever the love the parishioners have for their pastor and church; whatever the (granted) orthodox beliefs of the writer(s) and the whole blessed lot of them: whatever charity grants this, it just does not stand up to the standard given by Benedict XVI: the hermeneutic of continuity. Therefore, I must conclude that this “rebuilt” church, as well as the one which has sparked all of the current discussion and, I believe, well deserved derision, is not, and cannot, be sowing anything more than seed that falls upon shallow ground–ultimately as rootless as all else in what Cardinal George called: that exhausted project known as “liberal catholicism.”

  46. Robbie says:

    The new springtime. Ain’t it grand!

  47. LeslieL says:

    Oh dear – wonder what happened? I click on the video and it says “This Video is Private” –
    Well, from what you all have said, it sounds like it was something that was going to make me crazy anyway…..and like he may know the Sister who “ministers” at my parish – one of whom practices Reiki and Centering Prayer…..

  48. LeslieL says:

    PS – Pray for us, please…..

  49. benedetta says:

    I think the “We would like to welcome to our worship space” even if well intentioned does more harm than good. Who is “we”? It does set up some sort of higher echelon of lay ministers working in concert with your sacramental minister to…what, show you a good time? As if the entire congregation is on a tour bus and the “we” literally sleeps and camps out in the sanctuary ready to spring into action to “welcome” you to their clubhouse. Somehow, that can’t be what was intended at the Last Supper, if it’s only a reenactment of a meal between friends, nor is it what the Church intends in the offering of the unbloody sacrifice of the Mass.

    I am a Catholic. I don’t go to a worship space for a committee of self appointed officious folks “do ministry” and “do liturgy” for “the rest of us”. If that is all it is, then in the words of Flannery O’Connor…

  50. APX says:

    Until you’ve had the deacon preaching with his 12 string acoustic preaching via sing-a-longs of re-writes of Leonard Cohen songs and his own originals, you haven’t experienced anything.

  51. Di says:

    Opps seems as if the video is now private. No video here anymore….oh how sad:(

  52. APX says:

    Di, just do a YouTube search for “Deacon Sandy”. There are plenty of videos on YouTube. I find it peculiar their pastor doesn’t wear an alb.

  53. tcreek says:

    Ben Yanke above has a copy of the video.

  54. Joseph-Mary says:

    I suspect this deacon just learned he is way off base. But it is like this in many places. I visited a cousin in Louisville last fall and she felt she needed to warn me about the talking before and after Mass and, sure enough, it was like a social hall. The Blessed Sacrament was in an alcove off to the side but I do not recall anyone genuflecting as they passed. After Mass the noise was deafening and there were even people getting coffee and sitting in the worship space, in front of the Blessed Sacrament, eating and drinking! I did say something to them. The priest was in on all the talking too. That is just one of the thing that a person does not have to endure at a TLM.

  55. markomalley says:

    Archbishop Listecki, please pick up the white courtesy phone!

  56. benedetta says:

    Why no prolife ministry among the 50 zillion different opportunities to do lay ministry at Deacon Sandy’s church?

  57. RANCHER says:

    Sorry but I couldn’t get past the greeters as you enter the “worship space”. Fr Z I couldn’t bring myself to have a beer with him even if he were buying

  58. Bob B. says:

    Deacon Sandy almost bests the deacon we have – though the Jesuit priest started it, they had a holy water fight on the altar and the Jesuit sprayed the altar servers, as well.
    As the LA Religious Education Congress is next month (“Cave Idus Martias”), we’re sure to have more videos like this to watch…can’t wait for more liturgical dance, etc.

  59. HyacinthClare says:

    YES!!! GLEN M!! I am so going to steal that line!!

  60. Midwest St. Michael says:

    ThankyouB16,

    I received a copy of this book back in the fall of 2012 (a gift). The alarms were going off just perusing through it. I decided to give it some time then have a look at the reviews. I did this just two weeks ago.

    TYB16, go to the Amazon link you provided and click on the “2 star” reviews. Scroll down until you see the review by a James H. Toner. It is outstanding.

    MSM

  61. momoften says:

    His exact words were that it was real bread, was it not? I strongly doubt he meant that they make
    valid hosts by the way his hands seemed to knead bread. Invalid, illicit. Why is he allowed to go
    on as Parish (director)? I want to gag.

  62. govmatt says:

    My first response was “just like at my [insert a religious order close to the heart of the Pope here] undergrad”
    My second response was “I wonder how many vocations have come out of Good Shepherd lately”
    My third response was “this is what a lot of catholics think the ‘new evangelization’ is”

    While I’m tempted to say “oh that’s silly” or “well, the biological solution will let the Lord sort it out,” I think that this problem is far more widespread than the hierarchy of the Church would care to admit. Honestly, I don’t blame Deacon Sandy. Folks, I feel sorry for him. (Especially if he’s getting rude or hateful mail/messages… not rad, trads.) He’s been lied to. Like so many lay Catholics, he doesn’t know any differently. Deacon Sandy should be the posterboy for what the new evangelization is all about. Literally… “Good Shepherd… feed this child”

  63. Unwilling says:

    Post-Catholic.

  64. Charles E Flynn says:

    There is no prize for the most nauseating use of the expression “worship space”.

    The connoisseur of fourth-rate trash knows that everything regrettable in this video probably follows from the “parish director model”, about which our narrator informs, or should I say warns, us at the beginning.

  65. Lepidus says:

    Yes! Please come on over, Father.

  66. Sonshine135 says:

    In charity, I would like to thank Deacon Sandy for providing a warn….I mean welcome to his church. I am, however, sorry to say that this type of Mass is not at all “unique”. The Mass I attended for the last four years at my previous church was very much like this. As a Catholic, I look for my church to be reverent, as I am in the presence of the Lord on Calvary. That should be the same wherever I approach the alter.

    I kept waiting for Deacon to say, “Another unique thing is that we have replaced the Crucifix with a Buddy Christ.” If you aren’t familiar with a Buddy Christ, Google it. I am 100% sure you will agree it would fit in better at this church.

    Last but not least, please turn in your Love and Peace Hymnal to page 594….Here We Are….number 594. If your too wasted, just follow the bouncing ball on the jumbotrons.

    Here we are….all together as we sing as one…..joyfully.

  67. Charles E Flynn says:

    On the other hand, there was some good news today (note the references to Confession):

    The Oblates of the Virgin Mary: For Our Lord and Our Lady, by Jim Graves and Fr. Jeremy Paulin, OMV, for the Catholic World Report.

  68. BeckyCA says:

    I have a perspective as this as someone who grew up close to Menomonee Falls, WI, has attended Mass at some of the parishes there, and whose father still lives there.

    My father, raised in a staunchly Lutheran home, has been a “seeker” his whole adult life. He has always been intrigued by the Catholic Church, and has even made statements like “At the end of time, the Catholic Church will be the last one standing.” I believe the Holy Spirit has been tugging at his heart all these years. In the past few months, he has actually started attending Mass at one of the other parishes in Menomonee Falls. It’s not Good Shepherd, nor is it probably as non-traditional as Good Shepherd is, but my dad keeps telling me “It would be too liberal for your taste.” That part is probably true. But if the parish he attends is drawing him closer to the fullness of truth, to the point he might conceivably be received into the Church and thus able to receive the sacraments and grow in holiness, there might be some value to a parish like this. It may not appeal to those of us who want “smells and bells” but may appeal to people who have always been somewhat intimidated by Catholicism and need a gentle introduction to it. I always think that if my father were to become Catholic, he would eventually end up attending the TLM. It just can’t be the starting point for him because it is too reminiscent, for him, of the Catholic Church before Vatican II, a church he regarded as dark, mysterious, and scary. I wonder if the Holy Spirit is using a parish like my father attends — and parishes like Good Shepherd — to reach people as a “starting point” to get them into the door of a Catholic Church, and then get them over some of their prejudices.

  69. Absit invidia says:

    Black is white and white is black.

    So standing is showing reverence, NOT kneeling. Hmm. Didn’t know. This man is trying to AMERICANIZE Our Lord and drag him down to the American level, not lift the American up to God’s Divine aspirations to share HIS happiness for us. So now, WE define happiness – not God, WE define reverence – not God, WE define Holy Communion as regular bread not the paschal meal that used unleavened bread. I suspect that’s there are other things at this parish that are at odds with our Catholic Traditions.

  70. boko fittleworth says:

    Deacon Sandy appears sincere and loving. He’s been poorly formed, but whose fault is that? He seems the very model of a Pope Francis pastor. He’s a victim, not a villain. I watched the whole video and was impressed with his kindness and caring. And I say this as a “Sour Grapes” award winner with a track record of harsh personal criticism in comment boxes. He’s so wrong in so many ways, but I didn’t get any sense of the anger or post-Benedictine triumphalism of so many libs. God bless Deacon Sandy. I’d drive an hour each way to avoid Mass at his parish, but he just doesn’t push my buttons the way so many libs do. I’ll also note that all the explaining he does about why they do things the way they do is a good sign. So many libs just dismiss us outright or rub Pope Francis in our faces. deacon Sandy seems to know we’re out there and to respect that.

  71. benedetta says:

    Father Z don’t you think you could be exaggerating? I mean, not everyone who likes to do liturgy such as this smokes a bong. Some take theirs medicinally in these times.

  72. bmadamsberry says:

    Some of this should be adopted (some… emphasis on some). For example, TV displays (if properly integrated with the overall architecture) can be useful devices for dealing with the deaf, for saving money on hymnals (and allowing a wider rang of hymns). They can also be useful for time of Exposition, where prayers or Litanies not commonly known can be displayed.

    In the next decade or two, kneeling will need to be reexamined. More and more, standing is held to be more reverential than kneeling. Kneeling has a long place as a sign of respect, but if standing begins to overcome that idea of reverence, why not utilize it? We should be reverent to the Eucharist, and adopt those postures which exhibit that reverence (I don’t think it would be proper to stand now, because we as a society still have an understanding of kneeling as reverent, and still remember when people knelt before kings).

  73. Siculum says:

    Father Z didn’t exaggerate anything. In fact, he downplayed things somewhat and let the video and the good Deacon do all the talking. To your point about “medicinal” usage, I think these times require something with a little more “oomph” than bong-related matters…. Prayer and Fasting! (This spoken from a fellow who knows he also falls short in this area)

  74. benedetta says:

    Of course prostration is also a sign of reverence.

  75. APX says:

    How can a deacon be a “Pastor Director”??

  76. majuscule says:

    Bongs: maybe Father meant bongos, as in drums. Did Deacon Sandy mention a bongo choir?

    Kneeling: I think kneeling is a natural reflex when encountering the divine. It’s certainly not something I’ve ever felt inspired to do for a public official.

  77. benedetta says:

    majuscule, Ah, right! That’s it! Bongos!

  78. Massachusetts Catholic says:

    There is a homily from Deacon Sandy online (though it may get pulled).Worth watching for the long clips from a recent movie on Jackie Robinson. Anyway, in the first two minutes Deacon Sandy explains, “Fr. Al, myself, others who you may hear preach, Fr. Marty, Jane Clare.” There’s a Jane Clare Ishiguro listed as Pastoral Associate. She apparently preaches, too. Isn’t that in violation of canon law? The video is at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIQL-yjekBI

  79. Siculum says:

    Theologically speaking, Deacon Sandy reminds me of lactose free skim milk mixed with extra water. This isn’t mean to be an ad hominem attack, just a matter of fact based on his words and his parish’s church’s faith community’s website, bulletins, and newsletters.

    As …Catholics… we’ve been trying the same things he’s doing to some degree or another for many decades, and look where we are. What is that definition of insanity again?

    Head over to Creative Minority Report and see the thread of messages over there to see Deacon Sandy’s responses. If he had something to hide, he shouldn’t care, really. Instead, he even admitted that there were some things he shouldn’t have actually put in the video (rather, he’ll probably just continue them in his church….thing but try to downplay them). I noted that he tried to cover his bases in the video and in his emails with some of the weirder stuff (“liturgical innovations”) — he just knows it’s, to be cliche, “far out.”

    Deacon Sandy: “We respectfully ask that you remove the video. Your continued display of it is only causing further damage and separation between to groups of well intentioned Catholics who should be praying and reflecting together, and not arguing and condemning.” Jesus said He came not to unite us in this earthly life, but would be divisive, believe it or not. But anyway…..

    I hope +Listecki is getting a few pokes. But do keep them kind, upbeat, and brief, everyone. Offer positive solutions like the Traditional Latin Mass and the Magisterium, unlike the Deacon’s excuses.

  80. Siculum says:

    @APX and others: The concept of pastoral directors is one that is not unique to this situation in the Milwaukee diocese. They’re talking about the same in other Great Lakes dioceses too, and there are already parishes run by Deacon-and-wife teams with rotating priests coming to say Masses. If you see the word “Faith Community” instead of “Roman Catholic Church,” run…. to your nearest orthodox parish! A few years back, in one of those dioceses, I ran into another deacon who was highly interested in holding such a position, and then was indeed granted one. Nothing notoriously weird happened while I was there, and he did follow the Canon law with respect to how often he could preach at Mass, but he was very proud — even assertive — of the fact that he was “ordained like a priest” and was fully in-line with the model of deacons running parishes with priests only serving as sacramental support on Sundays. In the meantime, he also strongly hinted at his enthusiasm for just skipping having a priest come in on Sundays to say Mass and that a mere “communion service” would have sufficed for the Sunday obligation, and became defensive when that was respectfully questioned in light of the Church teachings.

    This reminds me of hearing a drive-by ‘Catholic’ once say she liked “Sister’s Mass” a lot better at her church (a Communion Service) because apparently this nun was faster than the priest (of course, no consecration) and gave a nice talk. This says a lot of how we have really lost it.

    Another point, however: Don’t use this Sandy guy’s being a deacon as a means of criticizing him. There are many orthodox deacons out there, and many more who at least wouldn’t go this far. We all can deduce that there are priests out there who have made or would jump at the chance to make a video just like this — or one far worse.

    I’m sorry to have rambled on, but as Fr. Z says, we are going to see a lot more of this, folks. What are we to do about it? Get married — to a person of the opposite gender, duh — practice hard-identity Catholicism, stop using contraception, and start having babies whom you raise to do either the same thing, or, prayerfully, who enter our seminaries (and convents). Then we won’t have parish closings, restructuring, well-intentioned and overeager deacons trying to substitute for low priestly vocations….

    Come to think of it, I just got an idea: What about an orthodox Roman Catholics’ version of Angie’s List, for parishes? Maybe it’s a bad idea….. and dioceses would hate it…. but it would be a big accountability opportunity….

  81. KosmoKarlos says:

    “And at the end of the service, we sit down, sing Kumbaya, and talk about our feeeeeeeelings.”
    All it needed.

  82. Eric says:

    “go your attic or garage and find that old bong you squirreled away” OH CRAP!

    Hey dad, what’s this?

    That’s a..uh…um……. tennis ball canon son.

  83. jflare says:

    As I watched the video, one thought kept creeping through my mind:
    If this parish is so great, ..why isn’t the priest on the camera instead of the deacon?
    Then it struck me: They may not HAVE a regular priest.
    Ow, ow, ow, ow, and OOWWW!!!

    I can assure everyone, I will never willingly attend Mass at a parish that has not a priest at it’s head.

    BeckyCA: In a way I understand your point. You should know that the ideas that the good deacon offered..far from being unique..sound like the unusual approach that most parishes that I remember tried when I was a teen.
    They didn’t work.
    I would suggest to you that if your father would not be able to handle Mass at a more traditional parish, especially if it would remind him of the things he used to loathe or dread..it’s entirely possible that he simply isn’t ready for hard-identity Catholic faith yet.

    I don’t think a parish like what the deacon describes is the answer. I think the answer REALLY is..prayer, fasting, catechesis, and catechesis. ..And continual explanation..sometimes many times..of the same things.
    Catholic faith is not easy; never was. I don’t believe we’ll bring anyone to Catholic faith by means of being wish-washy. They’ll depart as soon as they arrive.

  84. Jason Keener says:

    I’ve had the misfortune of visiting Good Shepherd Parish quite a few times over the years for various family events, and I recently told my family that I would never go back there again for any reason. While the people at Good Shepherd seem well-intentioned, the parish has been doing its own thing for years and years now. What I find most troubling is the crumbly bread used for the matter of the Eucharist that breaks into a bunch of crumbs in the communicant’s hand. One can only wonder how many particles of the Eucharist fall to the floor every week. I’ve written serious letters to the current Archbishop of Milwaukee and his two predecessors about the various liturgical abuses that occur at Good Shepherd, but nothing ever changes.

  85. Athelstan says:

    Hello Boko,

    He’s so wrong in so many ways, but I didn’t get any sense of the anger or post-Benedictine triumphalism of so many libs.

    In fairness, that was my impression as well.

    I’m curious if that’s true of others in the parish.

  86. Athelstan says:

    bmadamsberry,

    Some of this should be adopted (some… emphasis on some). For example, TV displays (if properly integrated with the overall architecture) can be useful devices for dealing with the deaf, for saving money on hymnals (and allowing a wider rang of hymns). They can also be useful for time of Exposition, where prayers or Litanies not commonly known can be displayed.

    But the problem is, a video display is going to be incredibly distracting for the rest of us. It’s going to be hard for many people to focus properly on what is going on at the altar, rather than a video board. To the extent that Mass involves non-verbal communication, it’s a tremendous mistake. We get enough communication from video screens in the rest of our lives.

    I couldn’t take it. I’d leave any parish that tried it.

    Finding ways to accommodate the deaf is worthy, but this is not the way to do it.

    In the next decade or two, kneeling will need to be reexamined. More and more, standing is held to be more reverential than kneeling.

    I get that standing seems to have taken on some increased respect – then again, it once *was* the custom that one stood up from one’s chair when a woman entered a room.

    But standing being *more* respectful than kneeling? No matter what cultural transformation has taken place, I find it hard to imagine how anyone would find kneeling to be *less* respectful than standing. And while I can’t judge interior dispositions for individuals, the apparent indifference to the Blessed Sacrament that I observe among many in parishes that emphasize “standing-as-respect” doesn’t lead me to conclude that this posture is helping to increase reverence for the Lord.

  87. Elly says:

    He looks and sounds like Mr. Rogers!

  88. Volanges says:

    “Rubrics?? We don’t need no stinkin’ rubrics.”

    I thought I was going to lose my breakfast as I watched.

  89. jfk03 says:

    Those of us who are of a traditional bent need to avoid the sin of the Pharisee. Eastern Catholics and Orthodox use leavened bread and stand for most of the Liturgy, but do a prostration at the Epiklesis. They are every bit as traditional as Roman Catholics who prefer the TLM. It is the overall spirit of reverence that counts. Charity covers a multitude of sins.

  90. sw85 says:

    “Eastern Catholics and Orthodox use leavened bread and stand for most of the Liturgy, but do a prostration at the Epiklesis. They are every bit as traditional as Roman Catholics who prefer the TLM. It is the overall spirit of reverence that counts. Charity covers a multitude of sins.”

    Eastern Catholics do what Eastern Catholics do because those are their traditions and customs.

    But they are not the traditions of Roman Catholics, and Good Shepherd is a Roman Catholic parish. They are not doing the same things because they are their traditions, they are doing them precisely because they are not their traditions.

    Surely obedience to legal norms is insufficient for salvation, but who here is arguing that it is? Obedience to justly-enacted laws (including liturgical norms) is itself an act of love, and it is a grave dereliction of duty to flout those laws (and publicize the flouting of them!).

  91. incredulous says:

    What are y’all hot and bothered about? Seems like a really slick place to pick up easy chicks…

  92. incredulous says:

    Athelstan,

    I thought the same as you until last week I was able to attend a Maronite Rite mass. They stood through the entire consecration. There were a few of us who felt uncomfortable and kneeled. My spiritual adviser told me that standing was very common in Europe as equivalently respectful as kneeling. YMMV.

  93. midwestmom says:

    WHY do bishops ignore stuff like this? I would shut this parish down in a heartbeat. Change the locks, kill the water and electricity, post ‘no trespassing’ signs.

  94. Suburbanbanshee says:

    There’s nothing wrong with standing, per se. Standing by the Throne is the position of the angels, in Jewish and Christian tradition. And if we were all snapping to attention or what have you, and it were our tradition, that would be fine.

    But ever since St. Francis’ time, the tradition of the Latin Rite has been to kneel. It came from lay devotion, it was promoted by great churchmen and saints (particularly St. Francis), and it’s pretty much always been an indult in the US because most of our settlers came from ethnic groups that kneeled back home. It’s not fair for the bishops to do takebacks for no good reason, and it’s an offense to lay spirituality.

    The stupidest one I’ve heard yet is that we shouldn’t have kneeling because not everybody can kneel. Well, not everybody can stand or sit, either.

  95. Suburbanbanshee says:

    “….the tradition of the Latin Rite” in many places, even though not in all places, “has been to kneel.”

  96. ByzCath08 says:

    Well said JFK03. Yes, it makes me cringe to see these things going on in the liturgy. But, instead of searching Youtube for more material to fan the flames, shouldn’t we just say a prayer for this parish and move on?

    Luke 18:11-14 could almost be written in modern terms as:

    The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: “God, I thank you that I not like other people–robbers, evildoers, adulterers–or even like this Novus Ordo mass goer. I fast on fridays, keep absolute silence during mass, do not clap at the end and do all those Novus Ordo inventions.

    But the Novus Ordo mass goer stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

    I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

  97. benedetta says:

    ByzCatho8, Exasperation at harmful and longstanding teaching counter to the faith does not automatically make one a “Pharisee”. As a matter of fact that is the sort of calumny that was employed to cover situations like this for a long time. Does it matter that young people are taught dissent? In fact, it does matter, not so much to us, although as we are a part of the Body, it does. But, more so, to the young faithful themselves who as baptized are entitled to decent celebration and teaching of the sacraments. That we desire it and most have pleaded for it with rejection and calumny and persecutions for years without any effect and now turn to places like this to vent and exclaim and wonder and plead all over again does not turn us all into “Pharisees”. And, I would add that accusing people of that for this alone in and of itself calls into question your own sense of charity towards fellow believers. Have some compassion.

    Clearly Deacon Sandy is aware that what he is doing should not see the light of day, by his actions and words. Why then has he been teaching this way for so long? If it’s not fit to be consumed by all of the faithful, why do it.

    As to the situation of Eastern Catholics, again, it doesn’t seem right to attack Roman Rite faithful just because your traditions are different. It seems to me that one is not called to become Eastern Rite merely because one prefers unleavened bread or standing. It seems to me that it is much deeper than that, and consistent with what we are all questioning here, are the traditions meaningful in and of themselves, or not. May someone tinker at whim, or not. How would you Eastern Rite Catholics react if an Eastern parish life director or pastor were to put up a video that all of a sudden you were to start doing numerous things not consonant with your traditions over thousands of years simply because your pastor decided they had a better symbolism that suited him, his committee, and the times? And what if in charity you attempted to correct it for many years within the community to no avail? What is the Christian thing to do then, to say, oh well, I will not be a Pharisee in this case. I am not going to condemn the faithful as Pharisees for finding their collective voice here and using it.

  98. Inigo says:

    Please tell me this video is just some sarcastic rendering of the rupturist crowd. Please tell me this isn’t real. Please tell me, this is some sort of Catholic Monthy Python…

  99. Sonshine135 says:

    The only reason I kneel at Mass during the consecration is because I cannot prostrate myself. If you truly believe that is the Lord on the Alter, who gave His life so that you may be redeemed, how could you do anything else? Standing in the presence of the King of Kings without Him asking you to so shows a profound lack of humility to me.

    And that’s the rub with me. I went to one of these “faith community” type places for 5 years here in _____________, and it was filled to the brim with people who I personally knew to be Cafeteria/ Burger King Catholics. Several of them were close friends. The showed up for Mass when they wanted. They always went to Communion. They never worried about confession. Conversations with them would show that they thought that a Protestant had just as good a chance of making it to heaven as a Catholic. They just had a different tradition. Hey, they are good people too. That means they will go to heaven. That is what being Catholic was/is to them. Before someone tells me to remove the plank from my eye, you have to realize, my kids grew up in this church, and I was wondering why the lack of reverence towards God. It finally dawned on me, because my children and my family in general, along with most in the Community, were “playing Catholic” we weren’t “being Catholic”.

    I really apologize if I have offended anyone here, but this is very painful for me to recall. I have many examples where these same people had very nasty things to say about Mass in Extraordinary Form (many who had never been to one before), and simple things like the bells being rung at consecration. They are really nice as long as you “have it their way”. Mention something at odds with what they do, and half the Faith Community goes ballistic.

  100. Bob Glassmeyer says:

    If the matter used for the Eucharist is invalid, or doubtful, I’m not going to receive. Period.

    It’s not all about us, and this high and mighty “WE ARE CHURCH” attitude. The more important thing is WHOSE Church we are. A priest I knew once joked about a priest saying Mass at a nun friend’s convent, where the nuns were using raisin bread for the Eucharist. He refused over and over, but his nun friend twisted his arm, so, at the Words of Institution, the priest said, “This – except for the raisins – is My Body.”

    What’s sad is, I think I may have at one time or another received at least doubtful matter. The concept of Ecclesia Supplet seems a good thing, but invalid matter is invalid matter, and it seems to me no amount of wishing will make it valid matter. Invalid matter= Eucharist is NOT confected=game over. Would someone please correct me if I am wrong here?

    I am outright slain by the priggish attitudes of some of the “liberal” Catholic set, who sing little ditties about everyone having a place at the table, but showing the door to anyone who so much as questions their ideologies. These Catholic “liberals” are in fact fascists, because if they were truly liberal, they would be a bit more, uh, tolerant of views different than theirs. So much for “All are welcome in this place” and all that.

    There was a time in a parish I visited when “substantial” bread was used instead of traditional white hosts. We also used it when I was in seminary. I hope to God that He is what I received at Mass, and not a biscuit. More than one person would pipe the catchy phrase that “Sure, people believe the white host is the Body of Christ after the Consecration, but they have a hard time believing it’s bread, because it doesn’t look like bread.”

    I imagine that if I stood face to face with the Person Jesus, He would not look like bread either, but it’s still Jesus I’m face to face with. After the Consecration, it’s not bread anymore, right?

    If I visit a parish where the priest’s “host” looks like a chocolate chip cookie, it’s game over for me.

  101. ByzCath08 says:

    @Benedetta:
    Please tell me how repeated posting of links to other videos made by the Deacon, links to the ministry pdf or scouring the bulletins for nuggets of information such as the communal advent or lent confession item is good and beneficial for Catholics?

    I called this out because it seems to be a repeated theme on message boards. Someone posts a video or link and the next thing you know people are doing a deep dive on all that is wrong with a diocese, parish or clergy member.

    I get it. The church is a mess right now, especially in the years after VII. But, the dogpiling that goes on in these threads turns people off to the traditionalist position.

  102. kap says:

    My 1st response to the video was the same as others and not continue to watch it. You know why? Because my spirit rebelled against it because I know/knew what they are doing to Jesus! Because we love and want to protect Him and bring Him -His Word & share in Him in the Eucharist.

    ByzCath08 I understand your point…however this thinking and behavior continues to this day in my diocese and in another diocese I have attended. And usually in rural areas of a diocese which gives the Pastor or Deacon to do whatever they want with the Liturgy/Mass. Which leads to my next point….he’s a Deacon not a Priest so he believes that he is in charge of the delivery of the Mass/Liturgy to the ‘community’. He is harming the Body of Christ in this and to not acknowledge it-call it out–also is a disservice to the Body of Christ. We are the nearest thing to Jesus tumping over the tables in the temple and we should all do this. All should write to the Bishop because this is NOT GOING TO change if someone doesn’t bring it to the attention of the Bishop requesting him to protect the Body of Christ in the Eucharist and the Body of Christ-the laity! This continues because we don’t pray enough for priests or Bishops and nor do we take a moment to contact their chancery.

    Btw the calling it out is like a family intervention…if we don’t have it its not gonna get fixed! This is also like an x-ray of the situation being held up for all to see and allow truth to cut in to the ‘mass’/illness that is ravishing the Body of Christ. Maybe, we all see this now and go to the parish and witness to them that this is not how we celebrate the Liturgy of the Word or The Body of Christ in the Eucharist. Yet, again the Deacon is not a priest and so to be fair he thinks it’s all ok to do what ever they want with a service. We need to do all this in charity…

  103. Thunder Dan says:

    I started watching and thought….this must be a spoof…like a SNL skit. Of course, I know better…it’s not. When is this period of trial and spiritual torture at the hands of our own church going to end?? I’m not a schismatic by any means, but one has to admit that the SSPX folks have a couple of good points….just sayin’. I am, however, slowly being driven to becoming a psychotic. I CAN’T TAKE IT ANYMORE!!! My wife is just counting the days until I loose it before mass one Sunday morning and stand up and yell….SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!! Clearly, I am in need of a spiritual counselor to help me express my spiritual needs not addressed during the mass. NOT ADDRESSED DURING THE MASS??? wah?? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

    Dear Lord, help us to perservere and to never loose trust in you!!

  104. Midwest St. Michael says:

    Honestly, the video reminded me a lot of this guy (with *no* disrespect towards Deacon Sandy at all).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eZO09MvRyA

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iullv9eesIw

    MSM

  105. Rich says:

    Most of the things that Deacon Sandy says are done at Mass at Good Shepherd, strictly speaking, are superfluous to the Mass itself. All of such elements are what give people the idea that Mass is all about whatever the ministers at any particular parish feel like Mass should be about. I am sure that this is a large part of why Mass attendance has plummeted the past few decades: people incrementally came to believe that what happens at Mass is totally subjective and that anything goes. Since the belief communicated is that anything goes with the Mass, then how about the option of not even going? Anything goes, right? Staying at home or going out with the family indeed seems more meaningful to one who has come to believe that going to Mass means playing along with what is only some group of individuals’ version of the Mass.

  106. Kathleen10 says:

    Well this is the natural outcome of having “religious directors” instead of ordained priests in charge. Not that you can always count on ordained priests, but, the odds of them being practicing Catholics as opposed to practicing Protestants, like this gentleman, has to be better. I know he’s not the religious director but, the fish rots from the head down. If the religious director person had an authentic grip on things, Deacon Sandy would be discussing the necessity of silence once you enter the church, why kneelers are used, and so on. Encouraging “talking” because it is important to be “in community with each other”? Oh my word.
    At what point do we admit we have are completely polarized into two distinct camps? Much like secular politics today, there are two adamant, opposed groups. We are butting heads. We do not agree on important fundamentals nor even the more trivial. What is the answer to this I wonder.

  107. benedetta says:

    ByzCatho8, That is your subjective opinion. It’s not necessarily born out by the data. And, first you called people Pharisees. Then you tried to say that because Eastern Rite stands or whatever it may be it’s perfectly fine for Roman parish life directors or pastors to organize contra the celebration of the sacraments. Now you say we all who are in favor of worthy liturgy ought not speak on comments ever. Then you say the videos have been posted everywhere. So far I know of one blog that posted it, and then, due to popular demand, Fr. Z also posted it. So there are not two blogs, and two threads. People are free to defend these practices, as they always have been, ad nauseum it seems now looking back, as they have assumed all the power in this for decades in most areas. I note you did not answer my question as to whether Easterns ought also have their liturgy tinkered with similarly. Finally, if you think the only answer that people advocate here in response to Deacon Sandy is the TLM, then, well, your scope is quite limited indeed.

  108. ByzCath08 says:

    You’re confusing me with someone else. I never said a thing about the Eastern practice of standing. That was someone else. I was agreeing with a post by someone who talked about avoiding the sin of the Pharisee.

    The Eastern Rite liturgy of St. John Chrysostom dates back to about the 5th century and has not really changed much since that time. So, we don’t really have a history of liturgical change.

    The same can not be said of the Latin Rite. There were alot of changes in the liturgy from the 3rd century up to the time of Trent and it wasn’t until Trent that it finally settled down. So, there is a history of liturgical change & reform in the West that has mainly escaped the East.

    So, to answer your question. Given that our liturgy hasn’t seen any real change for more than 1600 years, yes I would be unhappy with any tinkering.

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09790b.htm

    Have a blessed and spiritually productive Great Lent.

  109. benedetta says:

    Ah yes right you were the one equated this is as an attack on the Novus Ordo itself. Again, your scope is quite limited if you believe that the only alternative conceptualized here is the TLM. That is now but one solid option, thanks to Pope Benedict in great part. But you did accuse people who object as being Pharisees, and you say this is justified because our liturgy only dates back to Trent. Whereas if you as an Eastern Catholic were presented with tinkering, and I say, whether it be standing as some Easterns do, or unleavened bread, or intinction, or whatever it may be, doing away with prostrations (not because we would do so to the POTUS?), then you would be just be charitably objecting and not as the sinful Pharisee.

    Another odd thing you claim is that what Deacon Sandy is doing amounts to “liturgical reform” consonant (in continuity, anyone?) with reform throughout history. Again, that is a most subjective judgment on your part. You seem to be saying that Deacon Sandy and so many others are perfectly entitled to do so, and that any Catholic who has an issue with it and states such is a “Pharisee”. Interesting view, that.

    Be that as it may would in certain eras we had the YouTube and the blogs we have now! So I’ll take this time to thank Fr. Z and Creative Minority Report for posting this for our discussion and participation as laity. I didn’t ask Fr. Z to post it, but, now that it’s up, I can only thank him. Time to go stock up on some Mystic Monk! Cue music…

  110. Tantum Ergo says:

    Let’s seeeee. We stand for the President. OK… But for God we make no distinction???

  111. Arcgap says:

    He stands for the president and bows to the congregation and the cross and doesn’t even mention the tabernacle… He is at least being consistent through the whole business with what appears to be a true believer religion of secular humanism….. Someone ask him if he believes that “the community” is The Almighty or not….

  112. LOTH says:

    Friends here should play the close-caption feature of this video. Most interesting. “Parishioners” as spoken is rendered as “prisoners” in text. There are other jewels. My guess this is a software voice-to-text issue. Nonetheless, the languages of unsaying often provide us with remarkable insights.

    This makes me want to review all other videos here for their close-caption content.

    Thank you, Fr. Z for allowing me to post and for vetting me quickly.

  113. Volanges says:

    @ Arcgap Considering everything else, the failure to mention the Tabernacle probably means that there is none present in the ‘worship space’.

  114. Arcgap says:

    @Volanges I would be surprised if there is one. Read Sandy’s facebook post on other sites… He uses veiled threats and legal excuses for what he claims in the video are promoting worship. Nice guy?

  115. Marc says:

    The sad part is that this type of worship was (and may still be) an archdiocesan goal. I was part of the adult catechesis team at my old parish and the book “Rebuilt: Awakening the Faithful…” was given to us as the direction dictated by our Archbishop/Bishop for the new evangelization. I don’t know where it went from there because I simply left. The thought of video screens and modern music was simply too painful to even consider. Actually, it did help the faithful…my family…find the TLM at a nearby parish!

  116. Mike says:

    Wow, did I come late to this party.

    I had to travel out of town this week. Heard a Novus Ordo that was a little fringy. So, Lion King-style hymnody, complete with video screens — but, they do have kneelers in the pews, and they say the Confiteor (granted, of course, the NO-style one) at the Penitential Rite. The Responsorial Psalm was truncated before the verses that mention sin, and the homily was largely about the derivation of the word Namaste (please don’t ask me to go there) — but, they say the Prayer to St. Michael at the end of Mass. That kind of fringy. And well-nigh orthodox, almost staid, by the standards of some of the performances I’ve been reading about in this list of comments.

    Oh, and they use conventional unleavened wafers for the Holy Eucharist. It is hard to believe that I have to mention that.

  117. Minnesotan from Florida says:

    Sonshine135 says that if he (or she) were able, he would prostrate himself at the Consecration. Does he mean that if he had the physical flexibility of an ordinary 25 or 30 year old, he would literally do what ordinands do at a part of the liturgy of ordination, what the celebrants do or used to do at the beginning of the Good Friday liturgy? I state not in a “superior” way, but simply as an honest statement of my personal judgment, that this would seem to me to be exhibitionistic and, in a loose sense of the word, pharisaical. I would welcome a defense of other views.

    I have no experience of TV-type screens, but I have experienced ordinary slide-projection screens and slide-projection on the walls (of a church whose architecture provided suitable walls), and I think there is considerable advantage in getting folks’ faces out of the hymnbooks and liturgy sheets into the worship space as a whole. Of course in churches of more traditional architecture (and such seems to me the greater good) this is not possible; the issue is moot except in a more modern, or else “stripped,” architectural environment.

  118. lauermar says:

    Dear Father Z, I’m afraid the problem with Deacon Sandy and his church is much deeper than a preference for guitars, 1970s fashions, bongs, and even playing “Santa Claus Is Coming To Town” for families attending Christmas mass. The co-founder of Good Shepherd Catholic Church in Florida happens to be Judy Beaumont, an ex-nun who is now an ordained Womanpriest. She married to a female, an ex-nun. That is why they use the term “presider” at mass rather than priest. This church is aligned to the Womanpriest movement, and are in the process of introducing a new church model across America. I suspect they are targeting low-hanging fruit, parishes that are in disarray after bankruptcy, recovering from pedophilia and have lost parishioners. It’s an attempt to re-evangelize the church according to modern goals. Sandy and his group is spreading their errors across America. I don’t mean to sound pessimistic, but it is cause for concern. I’m not laughing.

  119. cl00bie says:

    “After we bow to the altar, we turn and bow to the congregation. This is to acknowledge the ‘Jesus in you’”.

    The “Jesus in me” wants to start knotting a cord…

  120. marthawrites says:

    We visited a church in western PA yesterday for Mass and the baptism of a granddaughter. Early arrival gave me time to read the bulletin before saying pre-Mass prayers. The first page was devoted almost entirely to a message from the pastor concerning silence in church. He may be Deacon Sandy’s clone. “We the church changed…Today we value hospitality and words of welcome [in the church]…we value the warmth of our parish communities …expressed in hugs, hellos and…high-fives.” And here’s the kicker: “Those who are looking for a place of profound silence should visit” the perpetual adoration chapel IN ANOTHER PARISH. This priest changed the wording of every prayer–Collect, Offertory, Canon, introduction to the Our Father–prescribed.
    I am happy to pray for him because he baptized our grandchild, he consecrated the Eucharist for us, and he gave a fine homily, but the noise level in that church before and after Mass was unlike any I’ve heard, and that left me with a feeling of deep unrest.