Priest pretends to concelebrate fake Mass with a woman, removed from ministry by CDF

Here is some cheery news. It is cheery in that the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith is doing its job diligently and that justice has been done and that the Faith has been defended. It is sad news, however, that any Catholic priest would be so wicked as to do such a thing.

We are pleased that the proper thing has been done, and sad about the sin committed which required such intervention.

From Fishwrap (aka National Schismatic Reporter), in mourning, with my emphases and comments:

Longtime peace activist removed from ministry after concelebrating Mass with woman priest [How many errors are there in that headline?]

A longtime peace and human rights activist arrested countless times, Franciscan Fr. Jerry Zawada [Never heard of him.] has been removed from public ministry for concelebrating [No!] Mass [No!] with a woman priest [No!] in 2011. [You see what Fishwrap is doing here, right?  They want you to glide serenely through their heretical premises.]

The letter removing the 76-year-old’s public priestly faculties — a copy of which NCR obtained March 21 [“Obtained”?  LOL!  Gosh!  I wonder how that happened!] — came from the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, [aka LIDLESS EYE OF SAURON!] which reviewed documentation related to the Nov. 22, 2011, liturgy Zawada concelebrated with Roman Catholic Womanpriest Janice Sevre-Duszynska. [Hey!  It’s the “Lady Tambourine Priest”!  Remember her ordination tambourine?  HERE]

“Having carefully examined the acts of the case, and the vota of the former Minister General and the Rev. Zawada’s Provincial Superior, this Dicastery has decided to impose on Rev. Jerome Zawada, OFM, a life of prayer and penance to be lived within the Queen of Peace Friary in Burlington, Wisconsin,” the letter states. [I wonder what Roy Bourgeois is up to these days.]

In addition, Zawada cannot present himself in public as a priest or celebrate the sacraments publicly; however, he can concelebrate Mass with other friars at the friary and in private. [Which would, probably, be valid, at least.]

“I don’t mind the prayer part,” Zawada told NCR Monday, “but when they called, when they say that I need to be spending time in penance, well, I’m not going to do penance for my convictions and the convictions of so many others, too.” [That’s the spirit, Father!]

Fr. John Puodziunas, provincial minister of the Franciscan Friars of the Assumption BVM Province, said he has not yet discussed the letter with Zawada but plans to in the coming weeks. He confirmed the letter removes him from his public priestly ministry but said it hasn’t been decided how it will restrict his movement outside the friary. At the same time, he said, “Friaries are not jails.” [HA! That’s for damn sure, based on the friaries I’ve seen!]

[…]

Read the rest there.

I am gratified that the CDF is exercising due diligence in carrying out its brief for the Holy Father, who would have had to sign off on this decision.

Women cannot be ordained.  Period.

If you choose to stray over that line during the pontificate of Pope Francis, the first Pope who has ever smiled or kissed a baby,  you will be removed from ministry.

Finally, Australian former-priest Greg Reynolds is still excommunicated.

Priest pretends to concelebrate fake Mass with a woman, removed from ministry by CDF
0 votes, 0.00 avg. rating (0% score)
FacebookEmailPinterestGoogle GmailShare/Bookmark

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
This entry was posted in Brick by Brick, Just Too Cool, Liberals, Mail from priests, Priests and Priesthood and tagged , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

59 Responses to Priest pretends to concelebrate fake Mass with a woman, removed from ministry by CDF

  1. Magpie says:

    It’s hilarious how NCR are up in arms about the big, bad, mean Vatican but they would do the same thing themselves. If you work for the NCR, you better toe the party line, or you won’t have a job there. Blind double standards.

  2. BLB Oregon says:

    Friar Jerry received the minimum consequence, as surely the CDF might fairly presume that for a Francisican a life of prayer and penance is part of his call in life. They have only required of him that his public act, which by its nature misleads the faithful, be recanted in a way just as public and that reflects the seriousness of his misconduct. Even at that, his “punishment” is so gentle in the day-to-day life he is being asked to lead as to be no worse than our beloved Pope Benedict would have accepted for himself. Had Pope Francis decreed that he never be seen presenting himself in public again in any way whatsoever, after all, and to never leave the grounds of his monastery at all, he would have obediently and in all humility accepted that. There would have been no comment about Pope Francis’ decisions for the consumption of the public, excepting the confirmation that he had accepted it without reservation.

    The great danger Friar Jerry faces is not that he will be locked in at Queen of Peace, as they will not do that. The great danger he faces is that he will stubbornly refuse to recognize his error and amend his ways. After all, the worst possible penalty remains: that is, not that he be locked in the friary, but he’ll find himself locked out. I am sure his superior will make that very clear to him. Let us pray that he’ll have the grace to listen, repent, and amend. If he does, his prayers and penance for those still in this error may do much good yet.

  3. “peace activist ” Yeah, right. Who wars against the Catholic Church and her doctrines.

  4. Robbie says:

    The best response to this madness is simply “oof”.

  5. acardnal says:

    “I don’t mind the prayer part,” Zawada told NCR Monday, “but when they called, when they say that I need to be spending time in penance, well, I’m not going to do penance for my convictions and the convictions of so many others, too.”

    My first thought after reading that was of Saint Padre Pio of Pietrelcina, OFM Cap., who was sanctioned for a period of time but was obedient to his superiors and humble in his response.

    St Padre Pio pray for wayward priests and religious.

  6. Vecchio di Londra says:

    It looks as if the real penance will be that of the Friars of Burlington, WI.

  7. LeeF says:

    The important subtext to this and similar cases is that these priests not only did the acts, but then continued to obstinately persist in maintaining and espousing the HERETICAL beliefs that led to them. I would like to see the CDF use that word more, heresy, to underline the underlying nature of the problem so that Fishwrap and others cannot spin it so easily. And probably only the fact of his advanced age and medical problems kept him from being excommunicated.

    On a side note, I wonder if these so-called “women priests” hear confessions regularly. Or say the breviary daily, or do anything else real priests are called to do. And whether liberal actual priests who support them do those things as well.

  8. theomalleys says:

    Didn’t God set up the church? Not following the rules is violating the will of God. If you don’t like God’s rules, you are free to join any of the 35,000+ protestant denominations.

  9. Papabile says:

    Interesting. I wonder what the sanction would be for “concelebrating” the Mass with laypeople who don’t even claim the need for ordination, but equate the priesthood of the people with the Sacramental Priesthood and claim they can consecrate the Eucharist also?

    This was common practice when I went to CUA 20 years ago. The mid-day Mass at Caldwell Chapel always had a few Sisters saying the prayer aloud — standing around the altar.

    Really unbelievable.

  10. Gail F says:

    LeeF: You can read all about them at Roman Catholic Womanpriests:

    http://www.romancatholicwomenpriests.org/

    A 15-minute visit to their site gives you a good overview of what they want, which is not actually be be priests in the Church as we know it, but to completely re-do the Church to be a place where everyone makes communal decisions in a “community of equals.”

    There are two in my area, one has a church that meets in an Old Catholic Church “cathedral” or an Episcopal church, or at people’s houses; and one that doesn’t list where it meets — you have to contact the woman (Fr. Z’s favorite, with the “ordination tambourine”) for directions, which I guess means it moves around. Neither mentions confession on its website.

    The former has a website has a little section for weddings and baptisms that says:

    “You can design your unique service at a location of your choice including parks, churches, homes, reception halls, etc.

    “Pastor Debra Meyers provides sacraments that complement your spiritual life.”

    So it sounds to me as it’s looking for people to drop in for these sacraments, the way “freelance” and mail-order-license ministers do.

  11. Gail F says:

    Enjoy: Free downloadable womanpriest liturgies. http://www.arcwp.org/aids.html

  12. Gail F says:

    Here is an excerpt from the Liturgy of Fire:

    “Profession of Faith: ALL: We believe in God, the creator and lover of all. We believe in Jesus, the Christ, who shows us how to live in the fullness of God’s love. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the breath of God, who empowers us with spiritual gifts for loving service of our sisters and brothers. We believe in Shekinah, God’s dwelling among the people. We believe in Sophia, Holy Wisdom, leading us to justice, and equality. We believe in Christ Sophia, nourishing us with abundant life as the Body of Christ at the table, on the table and around the table at the Banquet of love. ”

    And here is the Eucharistic Prayer from that same liturgy:

    Part One: O Divine Flame of Love, your glowing embers dance in our hearts. Your passionate presence kindles our souls. You purify us with the searing truth that ignites our spirits. As the glowing embers of a fire penetrate the cold around us, so your tenderness sets our hearts aglow. We celebrate your nearness this day as we remember your Pentecost miracles.
    How often have you loved us tenderly, without limits or boundaries! How often have you forgiven us freely and healed our sicknesses! How often have we been consumed with delight by human touch!
    How often have you embraced us through Earth’s beauty! How often have you affirmed us as your beloved creation! How often have you energized us to keep on keeping on – working for justice and peace in our world! We praise and exalt you forever with grateful hearts as we pray:

    ALL: Holy, Holy, Holy, Fire of Love, heaven and earth burn with love for you. Blessed are you who come to show us the depths of your yearning for us. Hosanna in the highest.

    Part Two: Passionate God, kindle your fire of enthusiasm within us. Speak to us with assurance and excitement. Reveal to us the infinite, boundless, depths of your love for us. Awaken us to your promises to be always present in our lives, no matter what the obstacles or setbacks we experience. Consume us with such a hunger and thirst for justice that our words and actions may inflame others to become signs of your justice. Give us eyes to see human need, hearts to care for our sisters and brothers and hands and feet to lighten others’ burdens.

    Part Three: Shekinah, we thank you for sending Jesus, your strong, but gentle presence, to bless and transform our lives. Jesus came to pour forth the love from your heart on all of us and show us how to live as your new creation.

    (please all extend hands as we recite the consecration together)

    ALL: The night before Jesus died, he gave us a special gift of love divine. He took bread, broke it and shared it with friends who gathered around the table saying: Take this all of you and eat it; this is my body which will kindle your passion for God and for all God’s creatures.

    Then Jesus took a cup of wine, praised God, shared the cup saying: ALL: Take this all of you and drink from it; this is the cup of my blood, the blood that will energize you with Spirit love; it will be poured out as kindling for the transformation of all.

    Let us proclaim the mystery of wonder in our midst: ALL: Christ is the spark of love in whom we believe; Christ is the passion of God in whom we trust; Christ will be always the desire who consumes us.

    As we celebrate this memory of Jesus, let us pray that we, like the disciples on the road to Emmaus, will burn with love for the God of Surprises who breaks the bread of life and pours the cup of salvation over all creation.

    Part Four: May our hearts be merry on our journey as we dream new dreams and see new visions. May we recognize Christ present in every person everywhere: all of us the Body of Christ – broken and shared. Every day as we care for each other, may we encounter the God who dwells with us anew. May we become Spirit-Fire, as we fan the flames of love over the entire cosmos.

    Shekinah, be with our families and friends, the young and old, the sick and dying and all those who need your nurturing love this day. Reconcile all those who experience the pain of discrimination in our church. Bless, protect, heal, encourage, comfort each person and group we remember today: (Pause and name people you want to remember.) As you led the Israelites through the bleak terrain, guide all those who are on their way home to you. (Pause and name people who have died whom you want to remember.)

    Open us to Spirit-Fire igniting the Earth. May all creation dance in your presence. May we become one heart, one mind, one spirit with everything. May we touch the earth with reverent awe and live in harmony with all creatures. May we turn away from all efforts to dominate anyone or anything. May we see your face shining in the stars and in the sun. May we embrace the universe’s treasures and celebrate life’s simple pleasures each day. May your love kindle our friendship with all life. O Heart of Love, we dwell as one in you.

    ALL: Through Christ, with Christ, in Christ the love of God is poured out into the whole world through the power of the Holy Spirit forever and ever. Amen.

    THE PRAYER OF JESUS
    ALL: Our Father and Mother…
    Presider: Deliver us, God, from every evil and grant us peace in our day. In your mercy keep us from sin and protect us from all anxiety as we wait in joyful hope for the coming of our Savior, Jesus Christ. ALL: For the kindom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever. Amen.

    THE SIGN OF PEACE
    Presider: Jesus, You said to your disciples, “My peace I leave you. My peace I give you.” Look on the faith of all and grant us the peace and unity of your kindom where you live forever and ever. ALL: Amen. Presider: May the peace of Christ Sophia be always with you.
    ALL: And also with you. Presider: Let us offer each other a sign of peace.

    LITANY FOR THE BREAKING OF BREAD
    ALL: Loving God, You call us to speak truth to power, have mercy on us. Loving God, You call us to live the Gospel of peace and justice, have mercy on us. Loving God, You call us to be Your presence in the world. Grant us peace.

    Presider: This is Jesus, Sophia’s Child, who gives wisdom and abundant life to us and to our world. All are invited to the banquet of love.
    ALL: We are the Body of Christ Sophia.

    PRAYER AFTER COMMUNION
    Presider: Thank you for this holy meal that we have shared. Fuel our hearts with your divine energy that we may share your love with all creatures. May we live always as instruments of your faithful love. ALL: Amen.”

    NOTHING HERETICAL THERE, I don’t see what all the fuss is about!

  13. Sofia Guerra says:

    Father writes…”[You see what Fishwrap is doing here, right? They want you to glide serenely through their heretical premises.]”

    Same agenda at the homosexual/lesbian et al agenda. Hijacking the word “gay” to describe their lifestyle so most people (smh) would be eased into accepting their march to undermine society and natural law. After all the word “gay” is an innocent word to describe being lively, merry and bright. The word “gay” is used fondly in Christmas music and even in “When Irish Eyes are Smiling”. There are so many more examples of the proper use of the word.

    The homosexuals who purported this evil agenda KNEW how easy it would be to connect the innocent use of the word to their lifestyle and thus, they get what they want. No different with the evil agenda of Progressive (Godless Marxists) catholics including priests and of course, NUNS.

    When will we learn.

    Sadly, when it’s too late.

  14. excalibur says:

    It looks as if the real penance will be that of the Friars of Burlington, WI.

    Zing!

  15. Hibernian Faitfhful says:

    I for one would be very happy to see each of these individuals approach the Holy See, repent and reenter the Church. Thank would be a Glorious day for the Trinity!!!

  16. Nan says:

    I once had a chat with the consort of one of these women. He said that they don’t advertise the location of their ordinations and Masses because they’re supported by church employees who know they’d be excommunicated and lose their jobs if it was known they were supporting these people. But if they don’t agree with Church teaching, why not look for a job elsewhere so they can’t lose it if their duplicity is found out? Because they’ve already excommunicated themselves.

  17. LeeF says: On a side note, I wonder if these so-called “women priests” hear confessions regularly.

    I hope not!!!

    What’s so sad about this friar is that he and his contumely are so close to facing God in judgment.

  18. The Astronomer says:

    Papabile says:
    29 March 2014 at 1:38 pm

    Interesting. I wonder what the sanction would be for “concelebrating” the Mass with laypeople who don’t even claim the need for ordination, but equate the priesthood of the people with the Sacramental Priesthood and claim they can consecrate the Eucharist also?

    This was common practice when I went to CUA 20 years ago. The mid-day Mass at Caldwell Chapel always had a few Sisters saying the prayer aloud — standing around the altar.

    Really unbelievable.

    I went to CUA from ’79 – ’83 and the priest ‘presiders’ from Campus Ministry that celebrated the ‘Lord’s Supper’ on Sunday nights would encourage the students in Brady Hall Chapel to gather around the table altar, extend their hands and recite the Eucharistic Prayer along with Father, 99% of the time it was EP #2.

    I was made to feel like a real idiot because I refused and knelt at my folding chair saying prayers of reparation to the Divine Majesty. After a while I gave up and just started attending the Latin language Novus Ordo Mass at 1:30PM Sundays in the crypt chapel of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception.

  19. Question: Obviously everything here is highly illicit, but, assuming the priest said all the proper prayers of consecration (whether or not the woman also said them), would the Eucharist be validly confected? What are the minimum requirements for transubstantiation to occur?

  20. Papabile says:

    Astronomer says:
    After a while I gave up and just started attending the Latin language Novus Ordo Mass at 1:30PM Sundays in the crypt chapel of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception.

    Wow. Campus Misery wasn’t that bad — though it was still terrible in the 1989 – 1993 timeframe. In fact, the Priest in charge of Campus Misery then was Father Peter Daly (of Fishwrap fame).
    We used to refer to Caldwell as “the Coven” — but they were removed from the Campus Misery types.

    I used to serve the 1:30 NO in the Shrine when I was there. I took my wife to it once, about 10 years ago, and the next time I went, found out they cancelled it and replaced it with a Spanish Mass. Such a shame. It was actually a well attended NO latin mass — one of the few out there.

  21. BLB Oregon says:

    That hideous liturgy at least makes the lie behind it more obvious. Even if a real priest used it–heaven forbid!–I would hope most members of the faithful would naturally react with a “Toto, I’ve a feeling we’re not in Kansas anymore.”

  22. Kathleen10 says:

    Gail F., thanks for posting the “Liturgy of Fire” as in, the fires of Hell. That pap has the expected cadence and enough of the terminology of actual worship, Satan’s usual pale imitation of truth. I don’t know, I swear I don’t, how anyone can even listen to such incantations and hear it as authentic worship. I pity them, really pity them. They are so lost, so utterly lost and confused.
    And count how many times one hears “we”, “our” and “us”. They cannot help but betray the orientation of their spells, themselves.

  23. Kathleen10 says:

    At this point in life, middle-ish, I have come to realize that women are strong and artful enough to be able to manipulate somewhat weak men into what they might not have come up with on their own. It was Eve, after all, who offered that apple. Women are driving the radical feminist movement, clamoring for abortion rights, women we see leading the charge in this women-priest effort. Weak men fall prey to strong and misguided women so easily, even priests. Women can be very strong, persistent, and often have a ready stream of words to convince. Priests and Bishops need to always put on the armor of God to protect them, and ask our Blessed Mother to strengthen them.
    I am very glad to be a woman, and since I am a member of the club I can say this, men are a lot like dogs and women like cats. I don’t think most priests would come up with this stuff on their own. They might have found some other silliness to fall into, but it probably wouldn’t be this type.

  24. “LeeF says: On a side note, I wonder if these so-called “women priests” hear confessions regularly.

    I hope not!!!”

    First, kudos to Gail F for providing the link to some the liturgies that these “woman priests” use. I’m not sure if they hear confessions at all. After analyzing some of the liturgies found via the link, I see that some of the liturgies have as part of their penitential rite a form of general absolution (which is recited by everyone, not just the presider).

    Presider: Let us pause now for reflection. Place your hand over your heart and breathe in God’s boundless love and forgiveness for you and for all those whom you are called to love and forgive.

    (Extend hands and recite prayer of General Absolution)
    ALL: God, the Father-Mother of mercies through the death and resurrection of Jesus / has reconciled the world and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins / through the ministry of the Church may God give us pardon and peace / and we absolve you from your sins in the name of God / the Father-Mother, and of Jesus, the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

    The question I have is who is absolving whom? During one of the few rare times that a priest may have to use it, the priest is the one saying it, giving general absolution to those who which to have their confessions heard. Why have the “woman priest” hear confessions when there’s a big general absolution as part of the penitential rite? As the use of the general absolution by a priest is very much restricted (for very good reason), the too frequent use of it mocks the sacrament of Confession and all of the good that it does for the soul. For a reference point, I found this in their “liturgy for lent” (they also have something very similar in their “liturgy for advent / Christmas”).

  25. Suburbanbanshee says:

    Apparently Sevre-Duszynska specializes in getting priests’ faculties removed, as well as getting them forbidden to go to the big Fort Benning demonstration/party. Besides Frs. Bourgeois (ex-Maryknoll) and Zawada (Franciscan), she also took out Fr. Bill Brennan (Jesuit). She’s a great friend.

    They are apparently all part of a small group of weenies with good lawyers that is constantly getting itself arrested, either at Ft. Benning or other Army/Navy facilities. They apparently haven’t done any actual work as priests since the 1980’s or before, so they must have very understanding superiors.

  26. Catholic Tech Geek says: I’m not sure if they hear confessions at all. After analyzing some of the liturgies found via the link, I see that some of the liturgies have as part of their penitential rite a form of general absolution (which is recited by everyone, not just the presider).

    I shudder at the idea of anyone thinking they can go to these women for the forgiveness of their sins. The angel who brought St. Faustina Holy Communion refused to hear her confession, because that was a power not held by any of the angelic spirits in heaven, but only sinful (male) priests. Not even the Mother of God can grant absolution.

  27. rbbadger says:

    I am sure that Father Zawada will want for nothing in his seclusion in the Friary. Given the strange interpretations of the vow of poverty one sees among the OFMs and other religious orders, he’ll be fine. Given how some religious interpret poverty and obedience, it’s frightening to think how they regard chastity.

  28. Warren says:

    I’m pretty sure God was testing us by imposing upon us a friar of a certain generation who openly advocated for wymenpreests. He was transferred to a Franciscan formation house, then transferred back to our diocese. Perhaps his superiors didn’t want him infecting the novice pool. He spent a few months in a progressive (and therefore prone) parish and, after a few homilies advocating dissent from Church teaching on Holy Orders, he was promoted to looking after some Poor Clare sisters. Perhaps the thought is that he’ll do much less harm to a cloistered order than to lay people.

    Members of religious orders—Satan really has had a field day with them, eh?

    The Franciscans of Western Canada appear to be smartening up. Within the past year, they sent our diocese four younger fellows who are faithful and true. They are making our diocese the hub of their focus on vocations.

  29. VexillaRegis says:

    I misread the headline as: ” Priest pretends to concelebrate Mass with fake woman, (who had been) removed from ministry by CDF”
    Very intriguing ;-P

  30. Dominicanes says:

    “He spent a few months in a progressive (and therefore prone) parish and, after a few homilies advocating dissent from Church teaching on Holy Orders, he was promoted to looking after some Poor Clare sisters. Perhaps the thought is that he’ll do much less harm to a cloistered order than to lay people.”

    Which shows the regard held for the cloistered life! Why are the problem priests or the ones who preach badly always thrust on cloistered monasteries! The nuns don’t have the choice of going to another Mass and Holy Mass, which is the center of their lives becomes their primary form of penance. Not only that, the faithful stay away and some even think the nuns agree with the thoughts expressed by the chaplain.

  31. Soooooo – if the womanchurch crowd are remaking the Church into a community of equals where we all make communal decisions, why do they need to be priests in that Church?

    Heck, I don’t need no lady priest coming the high hat with me, when I have a direct relationship with God and with my brothers and sisters in the community that is Church.

    I can design my own sacraments, thank you very much.

  32. RobS says:

    Hey everyone, nothing wrong here, turns out he’s right and we’re wrong. After all, how many of you have ever been referred to as a prophet? http://bridgetmarys.blogspot.com/2014/03/vatican-punishes-wisconsin-priest-for.html

    It is a sad day for the Roman Catholic Church when the Vatican punishes contemporary prophets and human rights activists like Fr. Jerry Zawada, a faithful priest for following his conscience in co-presiding at a liturgy with Roman Catholic Woman Priest, Janice Sevre-Duszynska.

    Franciscan Fr. Jerry Zawada, Jesuit Bill Brennan and Maryknoll Roy Bourgeois are contemporary prophets standing in solidarity with Roman Catholic Women Priests on our journey to gender justice and equality in the Roman Catholic Church. Our sister, Janice Sevre Duszynska invited her brother priests to co-preside at liturgies. Their “yes” is a historic step forward for the church and reflects the sense of the faithful in the United States and Europe. We are leading the church into a new era partnership and equality in grassroots communities.

    The Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) should affirm the primacy of conscience, a central Catholic teaching, not persecute Catholics who follow their consciences. Every Catholic is obliged to follow his/her conscience even if it means excommunication as St. Thomas Aquinas, medieval theologian taught. Women priests and our supporters are living prophetic obedience to the Gospel. We are following our consciences.

    Therefore , our brothers in the CDF should cease and desist from all forms of spiritual violence and bullying including ecclesiastical punishments such as excommunication against women priests and our supporters. We are your beloved sisters and brothers, members of the Catholic family, by our baptism. Please treat us as Jesus would– as spiritual equals.

    Bridget Mary Meehan, ARCWP

  33. RobS says:

    You’ll notice, also, that in Ms. Meehan’s liturgies she can never bring herself to acknowledge Jesus as the Son of God. There is a wacky branch of atheists who comprise the “Jesus never existed in history” point of view, but pretty much everyone else — atheists, Jews, Muslims, historians, etc. state that Jesus is not the Messiah but a number of facts about him are pretty apparent; He was born of Mary, He had disciples, He died on a cross. He was a human being, so he had a biological sex, and every document we have states that he was a boy who became a man.

    So bent is ARcW”p” on their female-first initiative that they never replace “Jesus” with a pronoun. Because they even doubt that He was the SON of God! I mean, that’s like the second sentence in the syllabus of Christianity 101. By reducing Jesus to this fluffy concept of “sophia” or wisdom they refuse to acknowledge his true humanity. That makes the whole of Christianity crumble at its foundation. The Messiah is a Son of Man! God sent one like us into the world to redeem it! These people appear to see no need for redemption, no need for a Messiah. Why even call yourself Christian at that point? Or more particularly, just what do you think Christianity is if you don’t acknowledge our fallenness and need for a Savior?

  34. We are leading the church into a new era partnership and equality in grassroots communities.

    Yeah?

    Well, I like my grassroots small-c church community without any oppressive, ‘ordained’ ‘priests’, and I don’t need them ‘leading’ me anywhere.

    Back off, sister.

  35. frjim4321 says:

    I once worked with a woman, then as DRE, who has recently been ordained to the diaconate. She was entirely maladapted to ministry at that time and I doubt it has gotten any better. What I keep coming back to, even if we grant for the sake of argument that such ordinations lack validity, I would not want to work with anyone, man or woman, whose personal agenda takes precedence over any possible real, productive and helpful service they might provide.

  36. Gail F. — aside: sometime you have to tell me more about what’s going on in our area! — prompts me to recall something from a few years back about a more (in)famous “wymynpryst” from these parts — who happens to be the former first lady of the great state of Ohio (no, I’m not kidding), Dagmar Celeste.

    I can’t recall on which riverboat cruise she was “ordained”: either on the Blue Danube, or on the Saint Lawrence, but in a news story about all that, there was this very odd bit. She acknowledged that the Church had excommunicated her, but no matter: she had a connection. Someone brought her holy communion from her local parish all the same.

    Now…think about that. She claims to be what? A priest. What do priests do? They offer Mass. So…why does Parent (note gender-neutrality) Dagmar need someone to bring her holy communion?

  37. Priam1184 says:

    @Nan: “But if they don’t agree with Church teaching, why not look for a job elsewhere so they can’t lose it if their duplicity is found out?”

    Because the roles set out for them by their master (whether or not they know or admit that he is their master) is to attempt to destroy the Church from within.

  38. Gail F says:

    Fr Martin Fox: All I know about what’s going on in our area is what I read at the ARCWP site, so now you know as much as I do.

    Dagmar Celeste! That is so sad. Poor woman went off the deep end, as far as I remember. She wasn’t one of those women who had theology degrees and always wanted to be a priest, she was more of a celebrity figurehead. She and Richard Celeste divorced after this. She is off being a new agey guru on Kelley’s Island. Here is part of her Wikipedia entry, which seems pretty straightforward (I’m not sure the “ordination” part is right though, I didn’t think she was one of the Danube Seven):

    Celeste serves as the executive director of the Tyrian network, “an intentional learning community founded in 2000 on Kelleys Island, Ohio and dedicated to Brigid, both the Goddess and the Saint”.[5] She is the author of the auto-biographical book We Can Do Together: Impressions of a Recovering Feminist First Lady. She has also participated in productions of The Vagina Monologues.[6] She is a long standing professional Life Balance Coach who developed an individualized three-month coaching process designed to empower one to discover a life worth living by embracing the life one is truly called to.

    http://www.tyrian.net/

  39. sunbreak says:

    The sad thing is that it takes so long for these things to get resolved. I mean – this ceremony he took part in was 3 years ago.

  40. Vecchio di Londra says:

    ” a woman, then as DRE, who has recently been ordained to the diaconate.”
    Oh no she hasn’t.
    As Groucho used to say, that must be some other feller.

  41. jhayes says:

    frjim4321, wrote: I once worked with a woman, then as DRE, who has recently been ordained to the diaconate

    By a bishop of the RCWP (Roman Catholic Woman Priests)? Or in another church?

    i.e. HERE

  42. Fr. Vincent Fitzpatrick says:

    You know what would be really good for the Church?

    If the CDF would review all this wacko’s assignments over the last several decades, and can every surviving bishop and religious superior who turned a blind eye to this wacko’s shenanigans.

  43. frjim4321 says:

    Jhayes, yup she is listed there. Yes I think the ordaining bishop has apostolic succession. But her ordination is clearly illicit and she has no faculties. The year I had to work with her was hellish. Validly ordained or not I would never work with her.

    [WHOA! What’s your angle here? You know as well as I do that a) it wasn’t an ordination at all and b) it wasn’t just illicit, it was INVALID. Let’s not hesitate to say that.]

  44. Pingback: What Can The Saints Teach Us About Lent? - BigPulpit.com

  45. Fr Jim, she’s not ordained at all. So there’s no worry about it being ‘illict’ or anything like that. She’s no more ordained than I am, and for the same reason – neither of us is a baptised man. And only a baptised man can receive this Sacrament.

    If you accept – as you clearly do – the authority behind concepts like ‘apostolic succession’ and ‘faculties’ and ‘valid ordination’, then how is it that you can selectively edit out the other elements, taught by the same authority, about who can and can’t receive the Sacrament of Holy Orders?

    If you unravel part of the sweater of authority, it all comes undone in the end.

    So we return to my point: why do these women feel the need to embrace a ‘priesthood’ that they also openly denounce as patriarchal and ecclesiocentric? I can’t buy this at all. If womanpriests bring us a womanchurch, then why do we need priests at all?

    Closer to home: if you believe that a woman can be validly but illicitly ordained, then who, Father, are you? Ontologically? What does your priesthood mean to you in real terms?

  46. LarryW2LJ says:

    “Zawada concelebrated with Roman Catholic Womanpriest Janice Sevre-Duszynska.”

    Talk about killing two birds with one stone. I may be wrong (I often am), but not only did he concelebrate with a “Womanpriest” – but wouldn’t her hyphenated last name indicate that she’s married? Wow – double whammy!

  47. Gail F says:

    frjim4321 is making a point I think people are overlooking: The woman he knows who is part of this movement has an agenda that she is very open about, and she is extremely difficult to work with. I imagine that most of these women are similar. You just don’t DO something this big, public and defiant if you are a nice person. Unless maybe you are addled in the head.

  48. BLB Oregon says:

    They can call themselves Roman Catholic all they like, but the Womenpriests are Protestants.

  49. profling says:

    Father, it was inevitable a priest would invite a woman to concelebrate. Here in Atlanta we have liturgical dancers, a mass dominated by unconsecrated women as lectors, acolytes, and Eucharistic ministers, an all-female choir, and lady ushers. The woman lector, dressed in casual clothes, often strides across the predella to hand something to the officiating priest (or should I say “president”?), who is sitting, apparently with no function. It is obvious Rome has no interest in dealing with this desacralization: it’s the “spirit” of Vatican 2 and therefore quite all right, isn’t it?

  50. KateD says:

    Do these women attend Mass at real Catholic churches? Or do they stick to their own?

  51. Urs says:

    Fr Z, I strongly suspect that frjim4321 does not believe as we do….his beliefs are probably closer to the womenpriests than they are to ours…they definitely seem more ‘liberal’ to me(I hate to use that word but…) or more in line with interpreting Vatican II in a hermeneutic of rupture as the “Spirit of VaticanII’ than in a hermeneutic of continuity. I DO hope that he does not believe as they do too closely. Please, correct me if I am wrong frjim butI have watched your reponses with concern for a while and wondered what your motivation for being here is and if you really enjoy reading this blog or what . As for the beliefs of womenpriests and those like them who want the Church to change its teaching believe , it is NOT Catholic at all. I believe that these beliefs ARE the antichurch, preaching an antigospel and teaching an antichrist. John Paul II told us warned us that we were in the final confrontation and that these 3 anti’s is what we are fighting. They reinterpret the Bible , Jesus and everything that the Church teaches. The Church has been in error all these centuries, LITERALLY.but they haveit all figured out right now and are reforming the Church to their own image of what they have figured out. Sex , masturbation are ok..and any kind of sex is good and spiritual if it is ‘love’is good. The devil and demons do not exist they are just symbols for the evil that is in us… Mary was a priest and all sorts of other stuff that is very scary. Theydonot have the decency of Martin Luther to leave the Church to reform what he thought was wrong and then spread what he believed to be true. These people wnt to reform everything that we believe into their truth and vision. They want to eliminate our beliefs and replace them with how they see. That is evil…they need to just not be part of this Church and start their own Reformed Catholicism with how they believe. Instead they want to crush the Church that Christ founded (but did not keep from error until they came along to correct it) and the understanding and beliefs of this Church out of EXistence , In my opinion, they are believers in and spreading the great apostacy and they do not want the Catholic CHURCH THAT WE BELIEVE IN TO EXIST AT ALL…iT IS NOT JUST ABOUT ORDAINING WOMEN. It is a reinterpretation of everything we believe from the entire Bible to what Jesus said and who he is…. It is the ANTI of all that we hold dear!…….They are not satisfied to just have a Church with their beiefs they want to CRUSH THIS CHURCH and completely replace it with theirs. we are in the final confrontation…. It is all on their website or within the links that they support…Check it out…here are someexamples but it does not even touch the whole picture:
    http://www.womenpriests.org/courses/inter/inter_intro.asp
    http://www.womenpriests.org/scriptur/index.asp
    http://www.womenpriests.org/body/body_ovr.asp
    http://www.thebodyissacred.org/body/sex_faq.asp
    These people are sincere and they truly believe they are right.
    and that they are fighting FOR the Church.
    As I see it, it is a great deception.
    When they talk about reform the Church , they mean reinterpreting how we see Truth from the Adam and Eve, from the beginning… complete and total reinterpretation of EVERYTHING about Jesus, the Bible , the Gospel… they think we have had it all wrong and they show the ‘right’ way, But they do not want our Church and our beliefs to exist at all anywhere . They want to completely destroy our beliefs..completely our of existence.They want to be the Catholic Church , use our name with none of our beliefs They want to completely replace our religion with theirs ….Sounds like Satan’s goal to me…a huge Satanic plot befitting an endtime scenario…. a Great Apostasy. That is how I see it. I would love to be wrong, though!

  52. Urs says:

    Gail F.
    You are absolutely right , They want to completely ‘re-do’ the Catholic Faith.
    And I doubt they have confession. There is no need for it. They do not believe in Satan or demons. That is just a symbol for the evil in us. …so I would imagine there is no hell , either- no need for confession. But they do have lots of counseling and spiritual direction and such.

  53. Ganganelli says:

    For the record, I am totally opposed to women priests; I think the Episcopalian ones look ridiculous. Having said that, can someone point out where the Church teaches that women are INVALID matter for ordination on account of being female? I thought that the Church purposely didn’t rule on that issue because there was some talk about women being ordained behind the Iron Curtain. I think that was the reason Blessed Pope JPII used the words “the Church has no authority to ordain women”. Please correct me if i’m wrong.

  54. BLB Oregon says:

    “Do these women attend Mass at real Catholic churches? Or do they stick to their own?”

    Some of the groups only meet once a month, so presumably they go to Mass at an actual Catholic church on the other weekends. Their goal is not to start a new church, but to re-make the one, holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church according to their specifications. Let us hope there is less damage than when Martin Luther and Henry VIII each put his hand to doing the same thing. Both those men considered themselves loyal sons of the Church, too.

    It is interesting that the Episcopal Church under President Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori is not allowing parishes breaking away in order to REMAIN in the same tradition as their parents and grandparents to keep their parish buildings or other assets. They’ve sold the churches to Baptists, Methodists, Jews, and even to Muslims, but the departing parties are not allowed to be buyers, even when their bid was far higher than the eventual buyers. Well, at least when the womenpriests aren’t allowed to take over a parish lock stock and barrel they won’t be able to complain that only a big bad member of the patriarchy would ever be so obstinately uncooperative to the work of the Spirit in a congregation.

  55. frjim4321 says:

    [WHOA! What’s your angle here? You know as well as I do that a) it wasn’t an ordination at all and b) it wasn’t just illicit, it was INVALID. Let’s not hesitate to say that.]

    I haven’t had much success reconciling myself with the recent pronouncements which came out long after my ordination on this subject. In the mid-’80’s this was very much open to discussion. [I pray that you will give what you owe to this infallible teaching: religiosum obsequium.]

    Further, I don’t see that these pronouncements have withstood the requirement of acceptance by the faithful. [As you know very well that acceptance of an infallible teaching changes nothing: it remains the truth regardless of your popularity polling.]

    This is nothing new here . . . my point is that doubt that I would want to work with anyone with cause celebre because I’ve already done that and frankly they never do any work. [Strongly registered, though that is of secondary importance.]

  56. BLB Oregon says:

    “…I don’t see that these pronouncements have withstood the requirement of acceptance by the faithful…”

    Where did that one come from? Does this mean that the Lutherans and Anglicans have really been Roman Catholic all along, only the Popes haven’t known it?

    Never in my life was I ever taught that the faithful of one generation get to come along and re-write the faith handed down to them by all previous generations. EVERY previous generation has accepted that it is impossible to ordain a woman. Is there to be a vote by the faithful (or even the bishops) on every matter of dogma every half-century or so? Heaven forbid!

    Honestly, if the faith is what the majority of people baptized into it say it is at this very minute, I’d be hard-pressed to say what the Roman Catholic faith even is. What can we say that more than a billion people all accept?

  57. jhayes says:

    The Church must pay attention to the sensus fidelium, or “sense of the faithful”, when exercising its teaching authority, but never confuse that sense with popular opinion on matters of faith, Pope Francis has said.

    The Pope made his comments in an address to members of the International Theological Commission, a Vatican advisory body.

    “By the gift of the Holy Spirit, the members of the Church possess the ‘sense of the faith’,” he said. “It is a question of a kind of ‘spiritual instinct’, which permits us to ‘think with the Church’ and discern what is consistent with the apostolic faith and the spirit of the Gospel.”

    The Pope said the Magisterium, the Church’s teaching authority, has the “duty to pay attention to what the Spirit tells the church through authentic manifestations of the ‘sense of the faithful’.”

    But he told the theologians this sense “must not be confused with the sociological reality of majority opinion.

    http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2013/12/09/sensus-fidelium-doesnt-mean-majority-opinion-francis-tells-theologians/

  58. acardnal says:

    jhayes, I hope you weren’t trying to find support for female priests from Pope Francis by posting that statement on the sensus fidelium . . . because it doesn’t do that.

  59. Urs says:

    Ganganelli said,
    ” I thought that the Church purposely didn’t rule on that issue because there was some talk about women being ordained behind the Iron Curtain. I think that was the reason Blessed Pope JPII used the words “the Church has no authority to ordain women”. Please correct me if i’m wrong.”
    You are mistaken on your conclusion on ordaining women . John Paul II did say ( one of MANY sentences ) the church has no authority to ordain women.(not sure how you get that it is an open question from that though)
    John Paul II declared this teaching ‘ex cathedra’ to make sure that everyone understood that it is an INFALLIBLE teaching of Doctrine of the Church! Women cannot now or ever be ordained as priests!
    John Paul II stated DEFINITIVELY in ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS , he said,
    “4. Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal Tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the Magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church’s judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force.

    Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.

    JP II used the definitive formula for speaking ex cathedra, the definitive formula for infallibilty.!
    That is why in the interview on the plane back from Rio Pope Francis said,
    ” . And, as far as women’s ordination is concerned, the Church has spoken and said: “No”. John Paul II said it, but with a definitive formulation. That door is closed.”

    And then Cardinal Ratzinger reinforced this because people refuse to hear. Many still refuse to hear it…because they no longer believe the Catholic faith…(yet, instead of forming a new Church frwhat they believe to be reformed. they want to destroy the Catholic Church of 2000 years and replace with a completely different faith. It involves much more than women’s ordination. )Cardinal Ratzinger reinforced the teaching of no women’s ordination with this:

    CONCERNING THE TEACHING CONTAINED IN ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS RESPONSUM AD DUBIUM

    Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

    October 28, 1995

    Dubium: Whether the teaching that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women, which is presented in the Apostolic Letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis to be held definitively, is to be understood as belonging to the deposit of faith.

    Responsum: In the affirmative.

    This teaching requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium (cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church Lumen Gentium 25, 2). Thus, in the present circumstances, the Roman Pontiff, exercising his proper office of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32), has handed on this same teaching by a formal declaration, explicitly stating what is to be held always, everywhere, and by all, as belonging to the deposit of the faith….”
    http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFRESPO.HTM