Blue Vestment Sighting – FSSP and TMSM

A week or so ago His Excellency Most Reverend Athanasius Schneider ordained men for the Fraternity of St. Peter in Wigratzbad.

Some photos via FSSP HERE.  NB: The vestments are blue.

I want to remind the readership of our BLUE Pontifical Project.

This is what we are going to use.

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UPDATE:

More blue sets…

blue vestments spain 11_11_27_blue_vestments_01

Please share!

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
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19 Responses to Blue Vestment Sighting – FSSP and TMSM

  1. mburn16 says:

    Why Blue, I wonder? Did this occur on a Marian feast, or at a Church dedicated to Our Lady? Otherwise is seems a bit odd, since we are well out of the advent season?

    Or are the vestments actually gold, which woukd be an acceptable color for ordination?

    [They look blue to me.]

  2. Titus says:

    And you can wear blue for ordinations because . . . why? Because these particular blue vestments are predominantly gold? Because there’s an applicable privilege? What gives? Inquiring minds want to know!

    [It may be that it was an old Marian feast, in the appendix of the Missal. Or, maybe they are beautiful and they wanted to use them.]

  3. CradleRevert says:

    It looks like the vestment is at least 60% gold, so wouldn’t this really be a gold vestment with blue on it? It isn’t like the FSSP to stray from the rubrics.

  4. jazzclass says:

    I thought blue vestments were only second to Vatican II in the list of things you hated..

    [HA! Hardly. I adore blue vestments! You must be a liberal.]

  5. APX says:

    Perhaps this is an area where we can receive some mutual enrichment from the Anglican Use Ordinariate with their blue vestments.

    [Not to mention Eastern Catholics. Not to mention the Rite of Toledo. Not to mention mutual enrichment from the Roman Rite itself! Blue has been used in Poland and by Franciscans and in Spain and Spain territories. Well… we have Poles and Franciscans and priests from Spain here.]

  6. tdhaller says:

    “Why Blue, I wonder? Did this occur on a Marian feast, or at a Church dedicated to Our Lady?”

    Not sure, but Wigratzbad is well known here in Bavaria for a number of apparitions of the Blessed Virgin, so it’s not too much of a stretch. (And Schneider is the auxiliary bishop of the Archdiocese of Mary Most Holy in Astana)

  7. kmatch says:

    I too am confused. I understood that blue is not a liturgical color and therefore should not, in general, be used.

    [Hey! This is the Age of Mercy! We don’t want to be like those terrible “doctors of the law” that His Holiness the Pope constantly upbraids. If conferences of bishops and various cardinals in books can say that the divorced and civilly remarried can be absolved and receive Communion even though they don’t intend to stop living more uxorio, as it were, then we can make and use a set of blue vestments for Pontifical Masses on Marian feasts. So there.]

  8. Animadversor says:

    I choose to believe that they are gold vestments with blue trim, albeit a great deal of the latter. Please do not offend me by offering a contrary and therefore offensive opinion. Things are what I say that I believe them to be, and gainsaying me is disrespectful. It’s also offensive—have I mentioned that?

    Fr. Z's Gold Star Award

  9. Kathleen10 says:

    Oh, the vestments the Archbishop is using are really just so beautiful. There is something otherworldly about the use of blue and gold, as if together they are holy colors. I think the fabric you have chosen is also beautiful, Fr. Z. If it has the gold trim, it will seem more gold than blue.

    [I’ve been going back and forth about trimming them in gold or in silver.]

  10. Augustine Thompson O.P. says:

    In the medieval Dominican Rite, black and violet were interchangeable, indeed black seems the usual color for penitential seasons and days.

    Yellow was used for confessors, but when the confessor’s feast was only simplex, the celebrant could use green. And yes, I know that the Dominican shared this, along with many other things, with the Sarum Rite.

    But, sadly, sadly, no blue.

    And even more sadly, our original color system was Romanized in 1687, when many other Romanisms (e.g. the Last Gospel) got imposed on us.

    More on this here: http://dominican-liturgy.blogspot.com/search/label/Liturgical%20Colors

  11. Fr. John says:

    Did you notice that beautifully flowing chalice veil? I’m going to keep a copy of that picture. I want one!

    DSC_4687

    [If I am correct, what you are interested in is the humeral veil. In the older form of Holy Mass, for the Solemn and the Pontifical, the chalice with its veil is on the credence table, but they are covered with the humeral veil with the burse on top. The deacon, after the et incarnatus est, receives the burse and takes it to the altar where he lays out the corporal. After the Creed the subdeacon goes to the credence table, puts on the humeral veil, and then takes the chalice to the altar on the Epistle side. He will then receive the paten which he hides under the humeral veil. He goes to his place at the foot of the altar after that, wearing the humeral veil, holding the paten.]

  12. iamlucky13 says:

    I just had to look up “Fr. Z’s Annual Rant on Blue Vestments” again for a refresher.

    As a result, I’m fairly certain Animadversor is correct, and these are gold vestments with blue trim.

    [You mean when I wrote about using blue instead of the prescribed violet in ADVENT?]

  13. iamlucky13 says:

    @Father Z
    “You mean when I wrote about using blue instead of the prescribed violet in ADVENT?”

    Yes, but I was thinking specifically about these excerpts:
    “It’s still against the law. [Law? What law? This is the Age of Mercy!]
    ….
    Year in and year out I say that, as soon as blue is approved for use (and I sincerely hope it will be!) I will be among the first to have a beautiful set made in the Roman style!”

    I hope it will be, too. In the meantime, as I understood things, these ordinations didn’t take place in a location granted the privilege either now or in the past of using blue vestments. I guess I’m a bit confused, but supposing that you approved of Bishop Schneider using gold vestments made the most sense to me. [Good. You’ll have to settle for that.]

  14. Blue is stunning. If His Excellency Bishop Schneider wore the blue vestments then ????? , what is the problem?
    Oh, I’m voting for silver trim… its manly and won’t be looked upon as gold vestments trimmed in blue .
    I must admit after seeing the blue at an Ordinariate Mass , I was loving it.

  15. Stephen Matthew says:

    I like vestments with a touch of blue as a trim or background with the proper color of the vestment being white/gold/silver as the case may be. I am not overly excited about actual blue vestments, it is a thing that I neither particularly favor nor disfavor, but would not myself support as it is contrary to current norms (even if, like the pirate’s code, those are more of “guidelines”).

    [Then it’s good that you don’t have a say in it! Meanwhile, we would appreciate a generous – no, rather, merciful donation to the project.]

  16. Jack007 says:

    In the FWIW department…Gold and silver have complimentary colors in fabrics.
    Gold appointments are usually matched with red material, while silver appointments are normally matched with blue fabric.

    [Are they indeed?]

  17. Peter in Canberra says:

    Gold. (and beautiful)

    or one might say ‘they are whatever colour I say they are, nothing more nothing less …’

    Fr. Z's Gold Star Award

  18. albizzi says:

    The last picture’s chasubles with lily golden flowers on a wonderful royal blue background are very similar to the king Louis XIV’s mantle he wore on several pictural masterpieces by the end of the 17th century.
    Our parish priest sometimes wears a cloak with exactly that same motif.
    Once he confidentially told me that he was a monarchist…

  19. Jack007 says:

    Gold v. silver… I’ve seen vessel cases that were blue and had gold plated vessels but it might have been that was to save inventory. In cases of very expensive or custom pieces its usually gold/red, silver/blue.
    Its a tough one. I personally love gold.
    But there’s a certain muted beauty in silver. In my personal vestment collection some of my most striking pieces have silver thread and bullion and I admit they have a way of catching the light. Also it seems that gold is sometimes the default color to the point it might be overdone.
    The best thing might be to lay them side by side on the material in different light.
    Glad I don’t have to make that decision, but its a nice decision to have to make. :-)