RUMOR ALERT:
If you didn’t get it the first time, the following rumor is a rumor.
Someone I spoke to tonight, who has a friend in the Apostolic Palace, told me the document "will be signed" on 11 November.
The preceding rumor is a rumor.
Okay, this is third hand. I will ask the questions about whether or not what was meant is that the document would be merely signed on 11 November, but not promulgated, or it will be promulgated as well.
Of course the whole thing is a rumor.
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I think I got it. It is still a rumor. :-)
Well…I’ve always thought it would be on 9 nov on the feast day of the dedication of the lateran basilica…of course this is strictly just my own thought…not even a rumor…just really wishful thinking on my part and i found a day on the calendar that i thing would be most appropriate for such a promulgation…let’s continue to pray, fast and make penance….
Pingback: Domus Dei » TLM Indult Signing Date
No, I know it’s a fact coz I saw something about it on Fr. Zuhlsdorf’s blog!
This site has been very hard to access for the last
few minutes. I think there might be a lot of traffic. =)
Someone make sure the French bishops dont hear about this rumor
:-)
Well, November 11 is the Memorial of St. Martin of Tours; And St. Martin is listed as a patron saint of France and a patron saint of Germany! So given all of the public fuss made by the French clerics and bishops regarding rumors (and who knows how many facts) concerning Pope Benedict’s plans to “liberate” the TLM and reform the Pauline Rite, perhaps St. Martin of Tours is just the man to have watching over that day’s document signing and consequent “fireworks!” … It’s just a thought.
Watch these: Unto The Least, Called By God.
Why visitor? What can they do? They’re going to run out fo spit pretty soon.
More on the St. Martin of Tours, Nov. 11, TLM liberalization “fittingness” …
This could just be me trying too hard to see a data pattern where there is none, but consider:
St. Martin of Tours is listed as a patron of France (no particular city or region of France specified).
St. Martin of Tours is listed as a patron of Mainz, Germany.
In an article, whose author seems not at all sympathetic to traditionalists and the TLM, the following statement is made concerning the Wetern Catholic Church’s liturgical history: To bring this review to a fitting close, let us recall that the so-called Tridentine Mass is not the original Roman Rite. It is a hybrid of Roman and Gallican elements that first made its appearance in the diocese of Seez, France, then in Mainz, Germany, whose bishop brought it to Rome when he was elected pope, Leo IX in the llth century. It was then popularized throughout Europe by the Franciscan Friars with their handy missals and breviaries …
Does anyone know if that statement is at least historically accurate? If it is then that fact is very interesting because …
There exists in Normandy, France an historically important Benedictine abbey which is known as St. Martin of Seez! Does anyone know if that St. Martin is a local saint of Seez, or was/is this abbey in Seez under the patronage of St. Martin of Tours?
And on top of these facts linking St. Martin to Seez and Mainz, and Seez and Mainz being possibly historically linked to the TLM, a German-born Pope is presently in a bit of a public “fray” with a number of French bishops and priests!
What do you make of this???
Watch these: Unto The Least, Called By God.
I thought documents were promulgated when signed?
11 November??? 11/11 at 11:00 am … That’s Armistice Day!! How appropos …. if this turns out *not*
to be a rumor.
–Guy Power
Whoops, I gave the wrong URL for the article I qouted from which tied Mainz and Seez to the TLM; the correct links is:
http://www.socialjusticereview.org/books/priests.php
Somebody at Amy Welborn’s weblog reported a rumor that the motu proprio would be signed Friday, Nov. 10.
However, a document can be signed but not made public at the same time. Let’s hope there’s no delay between the signing and the promulgation.
Jordan,
I was talking to a friend tonight who heard the dates of the 7th or the 13th.
Forgot to ask, when is the French bishops’ conference over? Maybe the Pope is waiting until they are sufficiently calmed down.
Waiting till the French bishops calm down? Really.
I wasn’t aware that there were any bishops in France … ;-)
**Waiting till the French bishops calm down? Really.**
Okay, they’ll NEVER calm down :-)
**I wasn’t aware that there were any bishops in France … ;-)**
*cough*
This is trouble territory ;-D
I did a little googling and found the conference will be over on the 9th. Maybe they’ll disperse with Valiums in hand.
The problem isn’t with the loud bishops. The real problem are the whispering one!!
Pingback: Vigilate et Orate :: Französischer Widerstand :: November :: 2006
Father,
As always, prayers for the good intentions of the loyal.
James Daly
Friday’s the big day!
I’ll be heartbroken if this rumour turns out to be just that and nothing more…
November 11 is the 56th anniversary of my parents’ marriage, that’s why the Pope is rumored to be signing the document on that day. It’s an anniversary present to my mother and my late father. How kind of His Holiness. I shall have to send a thank you card…
Is it normal practice to sign documents (and/or promulgate them) of this importance on Saturdays?
In an article, whose author seems not at all sympathetic to traditionalists and the TLM, the following statement is made concerning the Wetern Catholic Church’s liturgical history: To bring this review to a fitting close, let us recall that the so-called Tridentine Mass is not the original Roman Rite. It is a hybrid of Roman and Gallican elements that first made its appearance in the diocese of Seez, France, then in Mainz, Germany, whose bishop brought it to Rome when he was elected pope, Leo IX in the llth century. It was then popularized throughout Europe by the Franciscan Friars with their handy missals and breviaries …
***
The author seems a Primitive Church freak. Dom Gueranger, the founder and first abbot of Solesmes, said that the first sign of a heretic is the obsession with the purity of Primitive Church.
1. The mass in the 1962 Missal is the Roman Rite, as Paul VI himself refers to it.
2. If you look at an altar missal (the Sacramentary) the 1st Eucharistic Prayer is called the Roman Canon. It is almost the same as the Canon in the 1962 Missal. The Roman Canon is obviously that of Rome, with references to early popes and Roman martyrs.
3. Was it influenced by the Gallican Rite? Yes, a bit. But the core of the Roman Rite has its origin in Rome and Gregory the Great. Two hundred years later it was transported to Charlemagne, who spread it throughout his empire.
_“This pronouncement could even take the form of a ‘Motu Propio,’ an official document issued on the Holy Father’s own initiative,†sources said._
*Vatican experts say Pope may propose reform of liturgical music in coming weeks*
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=7991
Might this be the source of the Motu Proprio rumor? Is it too much to dream we could get two for the price of one?
Where is the Exhortation? Forget the motu proprio on music ,just give us the Exhortation!!!!! Could it be that the Exhortation will mention that the TLM was not abrogated and is the extraordinary rite of the roman rite.Implementing details would follow in another document which would be issued in the spring when the Pope had worked out as best he could the wrinkles in the plan.PopeJPII did this with his encyclical on the Eucharist.He condemned abuses but mentioned none stating instead that a seperate document would be issued on that.Could the evasive Exhortation be signed Nov.11 or 13 and the motu proprio on the TLM (the Church prepared for its coming by the Exhortation) be promulgated in the spring?
But Father! But Father! You make us suffer giving us dates! We wait for them, we fast on Signing Day Eve, we tell everyone, we post them on our blogs, we dance on the roof, and then comes the day… and nothing! Make us suffer no more!
On second thought, give us the rumors anyway. It’s better than nothing :P
I will be doped up on morpheine come Friday – not, I hasten to add, for recreational purposes. Perhaps I will wake to a better world!
My hope is for November 10th. That way I can enjoy a return of the TLM and celebrate the Marine Corps Birthday all on the same day!
Semper Fi.
Pete: Oorah!
I dunno: I just wonder if its possible the holy father is preparing something more sweeping? There are a number of liturgy-related things in the works — many of which we know about — that it might be the time to say, “I call for the following, as a followup to last year’s synod. In addition, I call for ___ and ___. And persuant to section blah-de-blah of Sacrosanctum Concilium, I will name a commission of liturgical experts to evaluate the Missal in light of ‘organic development.'”
Martinmas is as good a day as any!!
Here in Australia it is now the 12th. no news!
I dont care when its signed, I just want it signed!!
Isn’t it sad that we have to go through all this bollocks
just to have something that is already a right within the Church?
It’ll be like the Pope signing document allowing Catholics to go to Confession…
Marty: No, this is not like that at all.
I’m sorry Fr., I understand that.
It was a dismal atempt at humour… ;)
Keep up the good work.
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