Very strange dream with ecclesiological implications

I had a very strange dream last night.

I am not sure, but I think the Legionarires of Christ might actually be…. Cylons!

Never mind that I watched a couple of episodes of Battlestar Galactica last evening (thanks to the folks who sent them!), or that I ate some really spicy food.

Nevertheless, could the Legionaries be Cylons?  They look like us.  At the same time, they all look alike!  And they are among us!

Think about how every episode opens. 

The Cylons [play intro music now]:

"…were created by man.

They evolved.

They rebelled.

There are many copies.

And they have a plan."


… and what about the … the… Salesians

I wonder.

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
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  1. michigancatholic says:

    No, definitely it’s the Jesuits.

  2. Legisperitus says:

    It’s simpler to deal with the Modernists. Like the old form of Cylons, they’re much easier to identify.

    (Is the 1978-79 Battlestar Galactica now considered the “extraordinary form”? Where does that leave traditionalists like me?)

  3. Legisperitus: Where does that leave traditionalists like me?

    In a very bad analogy?


  4. Paul Stokell says:

    Jesuits? Naah, they’re more like the Borg.

    Now, the Claretians, they’re more like the Cylons. They’ve been trying to figure out humanity – and failing to get it right – for decades. Just pick up any issue of U.S. Catholic. (On second thought – don’t.)

  5. Athelstane says:

    This could be a dangerous thread, Father.

  6. Henry Edwards says:

    Father Z: Nevertheless, could the Legionaries be Cylons? They look like us. At the same time, they all look alike!

    Perhaps we ought not to judge them all solely from the ones shown on Fox News.

  7. xLC says:

    First General Chapter:

    245. It has always been the intention of Our Founding Father to make of each legionary a man who is, to the greatest extent possible, refined, polished and in harmony with his powers and personal qualities, the incarnation of a sort of universal man, authentically human, especially in the temperamental and cultural characteristics of each one of us: the legionary type.

    Envoy, Vol I, pp. 199-200. Letter dated April 11th, 1968

    Communion has two aspects: communion with the Movement and communion in the Movement. Communion with the Movement means assimilating, living, and referring constantly to the criteria, principles and spirit of the Movement. It means thinking as the Movement thinks, desiring as the Movement desires, feeling as the Movement feels. Communion with the Movement means to be constantly turned to it and being a faithful reflection of its spirit and life. Communion with the Movement means that we are born of it and bear the stamp and imprint of this origin.

    51. Communion in the Movement means accepting our role as a part of it, and convinced of this role, developing an intimate union with all its members, which are parts of the same body….

    52. … Communion in the Regnum Christi means cultivating all that unites us and doing away with all that divides us. It demands that we must always be prepared to lay aside or avoid whatever could enter in as an obstacle or dividing wall between us and our companions. We cannot achieve this without personal sacrifice so as to think not as we would like but as others would, marching ahead and adjusting our step to those at our side. Communion in the Movement means losing myself in order to find myself in my neighbor and in the whole. Wherever two men of the Kingdom are together, there should not be two individuals, but one Movement. Their hearts are united and in tune with each other; they echo the same charity… They have become a single heart and a single soul.

  8. Syriacus says:

    [Quite off-topic, but maybe with some ‘ecclesiological implications’ as well… :


    Il Papa ha nominato Consultore della Congregazione per la Dottrina della Fede il Padre Adriano Garuti, O.F.M., Docente di Ecclesiologia presso la Pontificia Università Lateranense.

    (From today’s Vatican Bollettino) ]

  9. Michael C. says:

    They might wear the same thing, as all orders should, but I don’t see how they look alike.

    Careful, now.

  10. Daniel Anselmo says:

    Anti-spam word at this moment:
    THINK before posting

    Yes. Do it.

  11. Patrick says:

    Well, there is, after all, only one model left unseen as of the end of last season. Perhaps you have a point. This could get interesting.

  12. Fr. Jay T. says:

    I’ve got to go along with Stokell, I’ve always compared the LCs to the Borg: the “assimilation” with the double breasted suits and the hair parted on the side, and the sheer way that the Legionary numbers seem to increase and increasre. Clearly “resistance is futile”.

  13. The Jesuits turned to the dark side since the end of V2 and they had a plan under P6 which was seriously thwarted by JP2. Now with B16, they have no hope (the bad SJ’s, i.e.) since their day has come and gone. The BORG (alias Liturgical Nazis) tried to control the USCCB after it successfully took over mainstream Catholic colleges and many US seminaries but more recent episcopal appointments have given the federation of orthodoxy real hope.

    I am more leary of the Daleks (lukewarm, middle-management ecclesiastical bureaucrats and prelates) not the Cylons. Both seek our demise but the former want to EXTERMINATE all vestiges of truth and grace by embracing heterodoxy and pedestrian worship. Deo Gratias B16 is a Timelord who is bringing back the best of the past and preparing for the future.

  14. Fr/ Trigilio: I am more leary of the Daleks

    Now you’re scaring me.

    I think you are on to something!

  15. Tim says:

    I recently confessed to my wife that I am in fact a Cylon. She didn’t believe me.

  16. PMcGrath says:

    OK, people, think about it: St. John Bosco –> a Cylon? Doesn’t work.

  17. Tom says:

    You know, Battlestar Galactica leans heavily on Mormon Eschatology
    (I’m not kidding!) and those mormon missionaries look a lot like

    And, at times, their displays of loyalty to JP2 along with seeing
    his as impeccable as well as infallible is more like the devotion
    young mormons have for Gordon B. Hinkley than the Church or John Paul
    ever demanded.

  18. Louis E. says:

    Not that I can expect a comment that takes Fr. Z to task to last long but his shameless embrace of the Novus Ordo Galactica has those of us who underwent our formation during the Adamate of Lorne Greene seething.
    The installation (I shall not call it ordination!) of a woman to the astrocervidate is without precedent,and with whatever intent Miss Sackhoff simulates the forms of her role she is materially incapable of adhering to the traditional Benedictine rubrics attaching thereto.
    For the orthodox Galactican,Adamavacantism is truly the only moral option.

  19. Melody says:


    As long as we are being Catholic Sci-fi nerds, might I ask a question?

    I had a dream in which the Pope visited the Enterprise-D from Star Trek. Thinking about it, I wondered: Would replicated bread and wine be valid matter for transubstantiation?

  20. berenike says:

    It is (as I recall) Battlestar Galactica where the Dominicans are … Dominicans!

  21. berenike says:

    No, I take it back, it was Babylon V.

  22. Ruthy Lapeyre says:

    Love this show, my kids have me hooked and I’m presently watching the first year on DVD. Should be able to finish today as we are snowed in and I must attend a Novus Ordo close to home. It’s a nice Novus Ordo but I will still miss the TLM.

  23. Melody says:

    Tim, I meant to ask: Are you the missing Cylon of the final five?

    If you have kids, then keep them away from Sharon and Six. ^_^

  24. Syriacus says:


    … and what about the … the… Salesians?

    I wonder.\”

    Father, this morning I had this thought: now we have a good Stickler SDB less…And …if Sodi SDB reached the 97 years too? …A bugnuist Matusalem! (All this said repectufully..)

  25. Legisperitus says:

    Louis E.,

    I like the elaboration on the “very bad analogy”! But Tom is quite right about Glen A. Larson and his practically-undisguised Mormon eschatology.

  26. Legionarires are to Cybermen like Opus Dei is to the Dominion

  27. Patrick says:

    What’s Fr Z’s call sign as a viper pilot?

  28. Patrick says:

    Do the Cylons, when the get together to discuss things refer to themselves as a concillium? Just wondering.

  29. Louis E. says:

    Isn’t eschatology primarily about end-times?
    Larson’s Mormon borrowings tend to concern cosmogony,with Kobol being an anagram of Kolob,the homeworld of the LDS Eternal Father,and the Quorums of the Twelve.
    To allude again to the original posting,Cylons being created by men instead of by a vanished reptile race is of course pure Modernist heresy,while whether the Imperious Leader of the era closing with the pilot was one of the final reptiles or a robot like his successors is a doctrinal difference between the Movian and Television Rites,the equally ancient but differently numbered “lungs” of orthodox Galacticanism.(Likewise with the proper vestments of the socialator).
    Regardless,one must recognize the recent Script(ure)s as apocryphal.

  30. Melody says:

    Louis E. I must protest your disloyalty to the Commander’s chair! Clearly the current Adama is the scriptural successor of Lorne Greene!

    Research into the earlier Tradition proves otherwise. Clearly, there are those who have sought to deny their own original sin in creating the Cylon race. They preferred to see them as mindless machines bent on the destruction of all life, rather than seekers of revenge.

  31. Ken W. says:

    “…abolish what divides us…” Hmm. Neo-Quakers?

  32. Larry Lawrence says:

    They are more like “Good Borg”

  33. giselle says:

    Be careful, Father Z. You allowed a commenter above to divulge private in-house LC documents. Regain is being sued for $1.5m for doing that. The Ceylons don’t look kindly on such revelations. It undermines their, um, “plan.”

  34. Jonathan Bennett says:


    The New Oxford Review linked to this post in their News section.

  35. Benefactress says:

    i dont like the B16 abbreviation. My doctor recommended lots of B1, B2, B6 & B12 for my short term memory and I am unsure about B16. I am too old for Borgs -you mean Bjorn Borg or Victor Borge? – and Cylons, but i will keep tuned to bridge my age gab/p.

  36. Legisperitus says:

    Louis E.:

    Yes, I probably should have said cosmogony or theology rather than eschatology. I was merely parroting Tom’s comment.

    I’d be interested in your view on the authenticity vel non of the highly credentialled but unspeakably execrable Galactica 1980.

  37. Louis E. says:

    By their fruits shall ye know them,and only an Anti-Commander would recognize the astrocervidate of a woman.Your “current Adama” is revealed as a Thracian rather than orthodox by his own actions!
    The Galactican faith has known schism through its history,over issues like the canonization of Dr. Zee.But those who hold to the original revelations will not be fooled by those who profess denial of the First Scripts Made Manifest!

  38. Louis E. says:

    at this stage Galactica 1980 is probably best viewed as a cautionary apparition of what might have been.1980 is now well behind us in history and the Twelve Colonies and Cylons have NOT appeared around our planet…to profess that the depicted events did occur is to invite ridicule of the faith.
    On the other hand,it did end with an invocation of the Astrocervus…the NORMATIVE BENEDICTINE Astrocervus…and we may assume that he in fact saved the Earth from these events occurring.
    So,whether we be Movian,Miniserian,or a later breed of orthodox,let us recite the basic creed…
    “There are those who believe,that life here,began Out There.Far across the Universe…”

  39. LCRealities says:

    Issued with stiff hair control cream on day one, hair to be parted just so in unison. Even the Africans expected to comply with the uniform look. All have to eat exactly the same way- there are detailed instructions on that for novices to master. The list goes on- individuality and personality suppression is the goal of novitiate not vocation discernment. Thats the job for the collective ( ie the Superiors who always know best). No room for ordinary human anthropology here- I think that Father is actually on to something!

  40. This is all new to me. It looks like most of you are treating this as a joke.So, Ha, Ha Ha.

  41. A Nun says:

    I ‘stumbled’ on this via the NOR. God bless you! It’s the only blog?website? Whatever? (I am not used to computers! Obviously! –taht makes sense! I watched those sci-fis when in the world.

    Thanks for the treat. Semper Fidelis!

  42. Tom says:

    Glad that my forwarding it to NOR paid off!

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