NCReg: Interview with Msgr. Georg Ratzinger

There is a very interesting story at the National Catholic Register about the Holy Father’s brother Msgr. George Ratzinger.  My emphases and comments.

When Your Little Brother Is the Pope

Part I of our exclusive interview with the Holy Father’s sole remaining sibling

BY Robert Rauhut


Msgr. Georg Ratzinger remembers someone once asking him about his brother Joseph, three years his junior, “You are Ratzinger’s brother, aren’t you?”

“Ratzinger?” he said, “That’s me!”

Nowadays, he is “Pope Benedict XVI’s brother,” and can look back at an eventful and very full life, from his being forced to serve as a soldier to directing the world-famous Regensburger Domspatzen choir, which performed around the world.

The Register was granted a rare and in-depth interview with this warm, friendly and pious man. [I can back that up.  From time to time I would run into Papa Ratzinger and his brother Msgr. Georg on a stroll around the Borgo Pio area or out a little farther, on their way, perhaps, back to or from supper.  Msgr. G, as well as Papa, were always happy to chat for a moment (in German), especially about sacred music.] Days before Pope Benedict visited the United States, Robert Rauhut met and spoke with him in the little house in the historic center of Regensburg that has been his home for some time.

CHILDHOOD IN BAVARIA How did you and your brother and sister keep your faith during the difficulties of your childhood?

From the very beginning, the Mother of God has played an integral part in our spiritual life.

At our parents’ house we often prayed the Rosary, we knelt on the ground, leaning on chairs. That showed us very early how important the Mother of God is for a Christian.

We also observed the many Marian feasts. My mother and my sister were called Maria. Obviously, the name has been important in my family. We also traveled to Altötting [one of Europe’s greatest Marian shrines]. We know we are indebted to the Mother of God and can carry all our worries to her.

The Rosary, the midday prayers on Sunday, the festive Corpus Christi processions in Bavaria: These practices of popular piety makes one’s faith becomes personal — not abstract or formal, but personal, human, kind and precious, a faith which enters our life story and claims an essential place.

You and your brother were both conscripted into the German army as teenagers. How did you get through that experience?

Generally speaking, it was a time of restlessness, of waiting and hope, hoping that it would end and that one would survive. One didn’t focus on the present; one looked to the future. Let me give one example. During one night we were tasked with repairing telephone lines. The sky was lit by a fire, a giant forest fire, and we all thought: We need to survive this night. We hope to survive and live an ordinary, civil life, where we can realize our life plans, enter a profession, prepare for a career and then accomplish it — return to an ordered life.

At the end of the war, like your brother, you were briefly held captive. Your brother says he will never forget the joy of coming home.

I had been in American captivity, in South Italy, close to the Vesuvius, and we had no connection with the rest of the world. We only knew that everything was going in all directions in Germany, that the Americans were coming in, the Germans made last defense attempts. But I did not know if my parents were still alive, what was going on with my sister and brother. Is our house still standing? — I did not know anything.

At the beginning of July we were brought by ship to the north, and then by bus to Bad Aibling. (Bad Aibling was a huge camp for prisoners.) We were there a few days and then we were dismissed. Americans took us in their vans into the areas where we had lived. I was running home and wanted to know: “Is anyone alive? Are the same people there? Is my house there?”

My mother was standing at the well, my father was at home, my brother had returned from captivity, and my sister was also there. That was probably the sweetest moment in my life.


You have also visited the United States with the Regensburger choir. How do you remember that country?

It is a vast country with different facets. Our concerts particularly attracted Germans in exile. They were pleased to meet people from their homeland and hear songs that brought their homeland to them.

I remember a church service in Boston, in which we also sang. It was very human, friendly, unconstrained. We liked it very much. Those were the most important bits.

I also remember visiting a McDonald’s. It was quite surprising that you throw away all the dishes after the meal. [Genau!] But obviously you also have a culture of eating in the private sphere of American life, outside the fast-food restaurants.

Your brother is just visiting the country. Do you have any fears or expectations?

I do not have any particular fears that something could happen. In America there are hardly any assassination attempts. The fears are, if he will succeed in fulfilling the expectations of the population.

He has got the ability to talk to the people, to appear as a sympathetic human being. I hope this will be clear to all in the United States.

This visit has not only a human aspect, but in particular a religious one. I hope he will make our faith sympathetic, credible. That’s the real aim of this pastoral visit. It is not a matter of tourism.

That’s what I really hope, that in all the circles he gets to visit, that this will work. Maybe it can bring the Catholic Church in America a pastoral impetus.


Now your brother has become Pope. How do you remember your last visit with him, at Christmastime?

Usually we celebrate Mass together in the morning. My brother is the main celebrant: The secretaries and I concelebrate. After the Mass there is silent thanksgiving. And then he reads the breviary to me; because of my eye problems, I cannot read the breviary anymore.  [Very sweet.  I bet the Pope could find someone else to read to his brother in German or Latin, but he does it himself.  Very nice.]

We also pray the lauds [morning prayer] and mid-morning prayer together. I have to be content with the Rosary. e reads the whole breviary in Latin.

Then we have breakfast, together with a few others. I go to my room. Often, Sister Christina reads something for me aloud. I listen to a lot of CDs.

A short time before lunch he comes to get me, and we go down together to eat. There we are together, also the secretaries. He pays attention to walks, to movement, because that is important for his physical condition.

I remember that once we were driven by car to the Lourdes grotto in the Vatican Gardens. My condition is too poor to walk there. And there we prayed the Rosary together. And then we talk a little bit and meet again for dinner.

After dinner we watch the news on RAI [Italian TV], then another little walk, compline [evening prayer] and the day ends.

Do you have a lot of time to talk together?

A little, but we spend the meal times together, the Celebration of the Eucharist, the afternoon Rosary and most of Sunday afternoon, after the siesta, especially in Castel Gandolfo.

For example, we sat close to the swimming pool there, [Which JPII had built.] where we read together and talked to each other. … At the end of the day there is usually little time. But the minutes spent together suffice.

Do you plan another visit?

I will be going down April 22 because on April 24 there is a concert organized by Italian President [Giorgio] Napolitano, and I will attend that. So I will stay a few more days.

Has something changed on a personal level after the election of your brother as Pope?

No. My brother was already 78 years old when he was elected Pope. Our personal relationship had already lasted 78 years by then.

So, fundamentally, nothing changes with regard to that.

But is it possible for you to distinguish your “little brother” from your Holy Father?

Certainly I have respect for him and one has to distinguish between the general human aspect, him being my brother, and the ecclesial one, that he is my superior in that regard. And there he also enjoys my particular admiration.

But in our personal conversation we are just the same as ever.

Do you talk about theology and ecclesial politics?

Hardly. Our conversation is everyday talk, but also remembrances. On ecclesial politics very little, because I generally do not want to interfere in his job and I do not want to influence him in any way.

Issues that are known generally are sometimes taken into the discussion, but generally little.

And theology?

I like reading his works, but talking about it is something different. Sometimes when I have read something, I will ask him about it so that he can explain it to me. But we … are together in a human way and talk about everyday human life.

He asks about people he knows from Regensburg and other places. He wants to know how they’re doing and what they’re up to.

Do you regularly talk on the phone?

It varies; there is no rule — generally, at least once a week.

First he wants to know what has been going on, and I tell him. And then vice versa. We do not talk very long.

What practical benefit is there for you when your brother is the Pope?

Obviously, I see its practical benefit when I visit my brother in Rome: I get very quickly from the airport to the Vatican — and if you know the traffic jams around Rome then you know that this is not easy.

There is also an important dimension in the Eucharist: Here is the Vicar of Christ celebrating Mass. There is a special atmosphere around that. But apart from that everything is similar.


Has your brother gotten used to the new office? I mean, he planned a different life.

He is very flexible. He can adapt well to a given situation. And he pays full attention to all that is demanded and expected of him. And this new requirement, new dimension of his everyday life, is something he has quickly adapted to.

Has the election of Pope Benedict changed the Church in Germany?

It is difficult to see any obvious difference. For those who already believe, it has definitely been a plus. For those who are standing at the edge, who are not against it, for them it has occasioned some pointed reflection.

In some it has led to a change of their personal attitude. Some have found a connection with the Church in some way — to what extent I cannot say. I have heard, for example, that the World Youth Day in Cologne has been very fruitful for pastoral work with young people in a parish — a growing interest, more positive attitudes, liveliness and willingness. That’s one testimony, but there are certainly many more.

Will your brother visit Germany again?

The desire is there. But he has the same obligation toward the whole world. He has already been to Germany twice. Now it’s the turn for other countries. So a question mark is wise. And on the other hand, traveling does not get easier with advancing age.

What plans and desires do you have for the evening of your life?

At our age, life is fulfilled. One has reached his aims, or missed them. One tries to live the last months or years, the days there are, in a way that does not cause problems, creates peace — to do one’s tasks as well as one can. The Pope got a new perspective, a new horizon, with his election, which has already lasted three years, and he also has no especially big plans but is confronted with a radically different reality and tries to find the right solutions for this reality. Dreams or desires? No, I do not have them now.

Robert Rauhut is
based in Munich.

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
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  1. Jon says:


    Very nice. Having brothers myself, it must be very consoling to the Pope to still, at this point in his life, be able to share his ministry with his brother.

    As to JPII’s pool, here’s my favorite story:

    “Pope John Paul II entered the papacy as an avid sportsman, enjoying hiking and swimming. The 58-year old was extremely healthy and active, jogging in the Vatican gardens to the horror of Vatican staff, who informed him that his jogging could be seen by tourists climbing to the summit of the dome of St. Peter’s Basilica. The pope’s response, according to media reports, was “so what?” When the cost of installing a swimming pool in his summer residence was queried by cardinals, John Paul joked that it was “cheaper than another conclave”.

  2. LCB says:

    This was really neat. The holiness if evident by Msgr. Ratzinger’s peace of soul.

  3. RBrown says:

    My Euro friends have told me that Georg was actually more famous until his younger brother became Prefect of the SCDF. sells various CD’s of his Regensburg Chorale.

  4. Prof. Basto says:

    Very nice.

    Now. When Mons. Ratzinger says breviary , perhaps is he referring to the Extraordinary Form Divine Office, or does he mean to say the Ordinary Form Liturgy of the Hours? The reference to breviary seems to indicate the Extraordinary Form. I’m just curious.

  5. Hoka2_99 says:

    What a delightful interview! I did know that Msgr Georg Ratzinger visits his brother as often as possible and I’m thrilled to read these extra little details. I’m sure it’s a happy and relaxing time for the Holy Father, when his brother is with him and they can talk privately.

    I look forward to reading the book “Der Bruder des Papstes”, but it will be difficult for me in German – no English translation is planned yet, as far as I know.

  6. RBrown says:

    Should be: My Euro friends have told me that Msgr Georg

  7. RBrown says:

    Now. When Mons. Ratzinger says breviary , perhaps is he referring to the Extraordinary Form Divine Office, or does he mean to say the Ordinary Form Liturgy of the Hours? The reference to breviary seems to indicate the Extraordinary Form. I’m just curious.
    Comment by Prof. Basto —

    Why would it indicate the old breviary?

  8. ordinary catholic says:

    “…he pays full attention to all that is demanded and expected of him.”

    What a perfect way to describe how each of us is to live moment by moment.

  9. Jayna says:

    “I get very quickly from the airport to the Vatican — and if you know the traffic jams around Rome then you know that this is not easy.”

    No kidding! Is there even a single moment during the day in which the streets of Rome are not jam packed with cars and death-defying motorbike riders?

    Lovely interview, thanks for posting it!

  10. prof. basto says:

    Because the new one isn’t called breviary. At least not in my country. The cover says “Liturgy of the Hours”. And when people speak of Roman Breviary, at least here, that means the pre-conciliar Divine Office.

  11. Konrad says:

    @prof. basto:
    in German we do not make a difference between the older and the newer form of the breviary, we call them both “Brevier”.

    Yes, for many years DKM (Domkapellmeister) Georg Ratzinger was the more famous of the two brothers, prior to Joseph Ratzinger being made archbishop of Munich in 1977. The Domspatzen choir made public appearances on TV, traveled a lot around the world, so the musician Ratzinger was more prominent than the University-Ratzinger Joseph, who was mostly known only to other theologians.

    Btw, as I am from Regensburg, I have got to know Mgr. Georg Ratzinger personally, as he used to help out in my parish during the summer vacations, especially since he retired from hist post as director of music in 1994, so I quite often served in the holy mass for him. I remember him as a soft-spoken, fine, nice elder gentleman.

    He used to joke with our Organist and Cantor who was one of his former choir boys. I was told that as a choir director he could be quite harsh and very demanding, he used to say that for maintaning a first class choir the only “form of government” could be the absolute dictatorship of the director.

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