UPDATE: 20:43 GMT
This is from Bridget Mary’s Blog (a Call To Action type… get ready for zany stuff if you visit that blog. You think it’s all a joke, at first, then you realize she means it.).
You can click the photos for larger images. Fun!
Ree Goes to the Vatican (fifth person in vestments/red stole)
Italian and Vatican Police Confront Women Outside St. Peter’s in Rome Congratulations to the Worldwide Coalition, Speaking Truth to Power for Justice for Women in the Roman Catholic Church!
Italian, Vatican police stop and apprehend passports of Catholic representatives delivering petition [Too bad they weren’t thrown into the Vatican’s hoosgau!]ROME, Italy – Yesterday, at 6:00 o’clock, the Italian police stopped representatives of Catholic organizations [We deny the premise. They aren’t Catholic from where I’m sitting. And the Italian police are supposed to stop ANY protesters who come into St. Peter’s Square.] from around the world as they walked into St. Peter’s Square to deliver a petition calling for the restoration of women’s ordination to the diaconate. The group was holding a banner saying "Ordain Catholic Women" and handing out educational materials. [Yah… that’s not so good either.] A total of thirteen members of the Italian and Vatican police gathered to question the eleven representatives. After taking their materials, the Italian police demanded their passports [Good!] and called the Vatican police, who sent their chief. According to a member of the Italian police, this was the first time in 15 years the chief came to question demonstrators. He did not allow them to deliver the petition to the Portone di Bronzo but said he would deliver it to the pope himself. [Uh huh. Sure. "Don’t worry little lady. I’ll make sure the Pope gets this. Noooo problem!"] Earlier in the day, the group brought the same banner and materials into the Square without getting stopped by the police. The representatives are in Rome during the Synod of Bishops on the Bible, calling for the full and equal participation of women in the Roman Catholic Church, including ordination as deacons, priests and bishops.
"Our peaceful action did not merit the extreme reaction of the police-sending the chief down to interrogate us while seizing our passports," [Um… yes… it did. Remember: You are in a different country with its own laws. Besides… I bet someone called him to say, "Hey Capo! You won’t believe what’s going on in the piazza! Wanna go see? This oughta be good! C’mon! Carlo and Giggi have started a pool!"] stated Aisha Taylor, executive director of the Women’s Ordination Conference. "However, I was not surprised. Time and again, when it comes to women’s role in the Church, the Vatican overreacts and demonstrates just how fearful they are about the growing support for women’s ordination. " [What deluded wretches. There are all sorts of kooks who try to do things in the Square. Most of them are benign.]The Pontifical Biblical Commission determined in 1976 that there is no scriptural reason to prohibit the ordination of women. The Bible describes how women were prominent leaders in Jesus’ ministry and early Christianity. In all four gospels, Mary Magdalene was the primary witness to the central event of Christianity-Christ’s resurrection. The Scriptures also mention women who led small house churches, including Lydia, Phoebe, Priscilla, and Prisca. [And… none of that makes any difference whatsoever! o{]:¬) ]
The representatives are from Britain, Germany, Japan, the Netherlands, Portugal and the United States. They represent the millions of Catholics [LOL!] from around the world who support women’s ordination.
END UPDATE
ORIGINAL POST:
This just in from AP:
Catholic women march in Rome for female priesthood
By ALESSANDRA RIZZO, Associated Press WriterWed Oct 15, 12:23 PM ET
Catholic women seeking to become priests denounced the church’s ban on female ordination as sexist and unjust, bringing their campaign close to the Vatican on Wednesday during a worldwide gathering of bishops. [LOL! Er.. um… I mean… Gosh! How sad.]
The small group of women representing Catholic organizations from around the world marched across the Tiber River close to St. Peter’s Square, some wearing signs with the names of prominent women in the early days of the Roman Catholic Church. [I would love photos of that!]
Aisha Taylor, the executive director of the Women’s Ordination Conference in the United States, said the women wanted to call attention to [call derision down on] the issue during the synod, a meeting of 253 bishops under way.
But the Vatican is not likely to drop its long-standing prohibition on women in the priesthood. [There’s a little understatement!]
In May, the Vatican insisted that it is properly following Christian tradition by excluding women from the priesthood and issued a new warning that women taking part in ordinations will be excommunicated.
The church has always banned the ordination of women by stating that the priesthood is reserved for men. The decree issued in May was explicit in its reference to women.
Pope Benedict XVI led the doctrinal office before becoming pontiff in 2005. Like his predecessor, Pope John Paul II, he has consistently rebuffed calls to change traditional church teachings on divorce, abortion, euthanasia, gay marriage and the requirement that priests be male and celibate.
Taylor conceded that no discussion on women’s ordination was likely to open — and certainly not at the synod, a gathering convened by the pope when he deems necessary, and devoted this time to discussing the relevance of the Bible for contemporary Catholics. [What kind of stupid is that? The Synod is not about priesthood. It is about Scripture? And why would anyone discuss something that is definitively closed?]
Taylor did take the presence of 25 women, either as observers or experts, at the synod as a mildly encouraging sign. But — with the women representing just 10 percent of the synod and none having a vote — she said it was not enough.
"The exclusion of women from the priesthood is a grave injustice in our church … (and) a blatant example of sexism," [yawn] she told reporters in Rome. "Even though leaders have come out saying no, and it’s over and over again, I do believe that cannot continue for too many decades." [oh yah?]
The Vatican’s firmness on the issue has dashed the hopes of women seeking to be priests but also of Catholics who see that as an option for a church struggling to recruit men. It has also raised fears that women might abandon the Roman Catholic Church for other branches of Christianity that allow female priesthood. [Good! I say to them "What are you waiting for? Don’t let the door hit you, … etc."]
In March, the archbishop of St. Louis excommunicated three women — two Americans and a South African — for participating in a woman’s [fake] ordination. They were part of the Roman Catholic Womenpriests movement, which began in 2002.
"Ordain Women! Ordain Women!" the woman chanted. [I bet the Romans looked at them with great patience… as they do most of the unbalanced street people you meet everywhere.] They later tried to deliver a petition to the Swiss Guards at the Vatican, but nobody came to pick it up. [I can visualize the warm reception they got from the Svizzeri! LOL!]Just so we know what we are dealing with here:
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Watch out…soon we will see marches of the new ultra modern mennuns.
Father Z –
This caused quite a stir recently when the female moderator of Deacons Place Forum posted the following “for discussion purposes only.”
God bless-
Tom Lang
Deacon Candidate
Diocese of Harrisburg
PRESS RELEASE FROM WOMENPRIESTS.ORG
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Reinstating the Diaconate for Women
An international Petition to the Pope asking for reinstatement of the ordained women’s diaconate will be handed in to the Vatican on Wednesday, October 15, 2008. A press conference in the ADISTA news agency in Rome will follow at 11 am that day. Dignitaries representing signatory organizations from around the world and representatives from various countries will be present at the function. A demonstration in Saint Peter’s Square by women dressed in ancient Greek/Hellenist clothing representing women deacons of the early Church will also be held.
Historical Background
It is historically documented that the diaconate of women existed in the Church since Apostolic times (Romans 16, 1; 1 Tim 3, 8-11). Tens of thousands of women deacons served in parishes during the first millennium as is witnessed in literary records, inscriptions on tombs and twenty two women deacon saints in the current liturgical calendar. Hundreds of women deacons are known to us by name. Ancient manuscripts have preserved the exact rite of ordination of women deacons (for more, see: http://womenpriests.org/deacons/default.asp)
Why is the Vatican is Suppressing the Historical Facts
Analysis of the ordination rite shows that the ordination of women deacons was a true sacrament [B as in B. S as in S.] with a bishop laying hands on the candidate and invoking the Holy Spirit. In all essentials the ordination of female deacons was identical to that of male deacons — the sacramentality of whose ordination cannot be disputed. This means women did receive Holy Orders. [Ridiculous.] For on July 15, 1563 the Council of Trent defined that the diaconate, as much as the priesthood and the episcopacy belongs to the sacrament of Holy Orders. “If anyone says that in the Catholic Church there does not exist a hierarchy, established through divine ordination, which consists of bishops, priests and deacons, let him be anathema.” (Denzinger no 966).
Break with Tradition?
In an interview, John Wijngaards, author of Women Deacons in the Early Church:Historical Texts and Contemporary Debates (Continuum 2006) confirms: “In no way can the official Church claim that ordaining women deacons would be a break with tradition. [Other than the fact that … it would be a break with tradition.] The diaconate for women is needed today as much as it ever has been. Hundreds of thousands of women all over the world perform pastoral ministries that should be supported by the sacramental grace of ordination,” he said. [Silly.]
Signatories:
Signatories of the Petition include at least twenty six international Catholic movements representing a membership of more than 40,000 people. In addition, more than fifteen hundred individuals have endorsed the Petition.
A text of the Petition (in six major languages used in the Church: English, Spanish, German, French, Italian and Dutch) can be found here: http://womenpriests.org/dreamshareact/phpPETITION/ The exact details of the signatories can be found her: http://www.womenpriests.org/dreamshareact/phpPetition/results.php
Signatory representatives who will be present at the function include Jennifer Stark (UK), Coordinator of Women’s Ordination Worldwide (WOW), Aisha Taylor (USA), President of Women’s Ordination Conference (WOC), Anne Brown (UK), New Wine, along with others from countries around the world including Austria, Australia, Germany, Netherlands, Japan and other countries.
Great comments as always Father. My question is why would these women remain in The Church? They reject divine law, tradition, the teaching of the Magisterium and propagate extreme forms of liberalism. As you say they could easily find a home in some of the wierd groups that market themselves as bastions of “truth”. It is really quite sad, their arguments are old, dull and juvenile yet they continue to embarass themselves for the whole world to see.
At what point does this bogus story become so overly-reported that it is no longer newsworthy? This could have been written at any point within the past 40 years and no one would know the difference. Yet the AP presents it as something new or unprecedented.
Seriously? Twenty five people got together to protest something in Rome?
I want that kind of news coverage!
I like the photo included in FrZ’s post. It looks like he chose it on purpose. The Swiss Guard walking away after having delivered this “petition” to the HF, and BXVI simply chuckles.
I agree it’s a big YAWN. Every liberal cliche in the book is in this article. Tom
Father,
Please don’t say “What are you waiting for? Don’t let the door hit you….” I was sure, as a young woman, that the absence of female ordination was a strict matter of ancient sexism that would soon pass. (It didn’t help that some priests openly endorsed that view.) It was years before I came to an understanding, on an interior (not just fideist) level, of the wisdom of Our Lord’s choice of men only for ordination. I’m very glad no priest invited me to leave the Church before then.
The best advice I received (from a good, orthodox priest) on women’s ordination and other issues of dissent was to this effect: “If it stops bothering you and you’re comfortable in your disagreement with Church teaching, you’ve got a grave problem. If it’s still bothering you such that you worry over it, pray over it, and keep asking for explanations [as I was asking of him], the problem isn’t so serious.”
He was right: eventually I came to understanding and assent to every point on which I had once dissented. I still remember to hold that priest in my prayers.
Do these same women allow men to lead their Feminist organizations? Don’t they feel any man could represent their interests equally well? Certainly they would hand over the reigns to a man? no? Or is it a strictly female group? I wonder how far their views on wquality could be pushed, or is there a double standard in the works…….Regardless they are so obstinant and should be thrown out of the Church….Unbelievable, really.
In reference to the press release in Tom’s post:
“The diaconate for women is needed today as much as it ever has been.”
Really? I’m not so sure about that. The permanent diaconate seems to be spawning deacons like rabbits in my parish. We have six already with two or three more in training. Our deacons outnumber our priests 2:1.
Do these women honestly think they’re going to accomplish anything? Especially with Benedict XVI! Yeah, I can totally see him caving in on this issue in the near future. *rolls eyes*
“A text of the Petition (in six major languages used in the Church: English, Spanish, German, French, Italian and Dutch) can be found here:”
Not Latin, I see. ‘Nuff said. ;)
I laughed at your comment about the Swiss Guards. When we were in Rome we wanted to go to the excavations and we didn’t know where the office was, so we asked the Swiss guards, in Italian, if they knew where the office was. “Si”, they said. We had to ask them where it was before they told us!
Or Greek, either. I guess they don’t have all that much solidarity with those early Christian women, after all.
So… let’s think about the known duties of deaconesses. Any of these folks helping to baptize female-type people in the altogether? No? (Okay, we’ll give them a pass on that.) :)
Any of them scouring the streets for orphans and taking them back to their homes to raise and teach them? No? Any of them going into the women’s quarters to bring oppressed women (like Muslim ladies) the Gospel of Jesus Christ? No? Are they running the diocesan hospitals or the parish guesthouses for strangers? No?
Any of them teaching RCIA, teaching Catholicism to kids, or scouring the streets for the homeless and indigent, as in personally giving them food and clothes? Do they go to Mass and sing the Hours every day? Possibly, but they aren’t mentioning these essential deaconess activities, which one would think would also be the root of their spirituality and message to the world and the Vatican.
Nobody is stopping anyone from serving others like a deaconess historically did, in ways which even the most conservative would not deny them. Nothing could better prove their point, if they truly wanted to follow in the footsteps of the deaconesses of old.
Instead they pout. All show and no go.
I think I’ll go to Silicon Valley and complain that nobody will employ me as a programmer. Then I’ll go to the Academy of Motion Pictures and complain that Oscars have not been awarded to more people who don’t work in the industry.
Oh, and making women deaconesses was explicitly said back in early Christian days _not_ to be a
Sacrament and _not_ to be the same as ordination. So they’re interested in history, except when it doesn’t say what they want.
“It has also raised fears that women might abandon the Roman Catholic Church for other branches of Christianity that allow female priesthood.”
The only other “branches of Christianity” that have real priests are the various Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Churches. None of them ordain women to the priesthood either.
I’m assuming the article is referring to various Protestant denominations that “ordain” their “ministers,” some of which are even called “priests.” If that is what is being referred to, them it seems these women care more about that special feeling one gets from a public ceremony and being allowed to wear special clothes than they do about the ontological reality of ordination. Which justs goes to show that it would be wrong to ordain them even if women could be ordained.
Father, your commentary makes me feel better. Thank you for saying it so well.
God bless you.
I think one of the reasons these women don’t outright leave the Catholic faith for something like the Anglican church that seems to be “more their style” is that they believe that one of the largest accomplishments one can make in life is to “stick it to the man.” Their generation of self-important hippies promoted the idea that they obtain some meaning for their lives through activism and protest against a “dominating and oppressive power structure,” regardless of the fact that God made that structure.
I see this time and time again through these documentaries made of aging hippies glorifying their involvement in changing society via protest and things like the so-called social “revolutions.” PBS, History Channel… these “we are the greatest generation” documentaries are all over the place and are nothing more than vanity and reveling in their rebellious antics. To bad they had such an influence on the Church. Thank God it is seemingly coming to an end as that generation approaches the end of earthly existence.
God Bless,
“The small group of women representing Catholic organizations from around the world marched across the Tiber”
If only they really would cross the Tiber and come back to the faith.
These wymyn don’t want to be priests. They want to destroy the priesthood altogether. They want a democratic Church in which ANYONE can get together with other tar-pit-destined dinosaurs and “celebrate the Lord’s Supper” around their living room coffee table. They’ve long ago rejected the Church and they worship a false god that they happen to call Jesus (when they don’t eliminate language about Father, Son, and Holy Spirit altogether).
Well, I know you were being sarcastic about it being so sad, but it really is. But at the same time it is a little funny. I wish I didn’t feel that way, but it is so hard not to when they think they can change the Catholic Church. I mean, “change the Catholic Church” is an oxymoron! :-)
Yet I have to say, this is a huge opportunity. An opportunity to stand firm, to save souls and to have a little laugh in the process. Vamonos…
“ordain Catholic women” is also an oxymoron.
Earlier in the day, the group brought the same banner and materials into the Square without getting stopped by the police.
Precisely. But a confrontation (with the pictures) was what they were trolling for, so they went off to long lunch and came back at sunset to commit a little street theatre. A manufactured incident.
Calleva–true!
however my point is really that this is a really amazing opportunity. Clearly the Church is standing strong as always, and that is one of the things I love most about the faith: we don’t take any nonsense. But even more important is that each of us individually pray for these women. Lord knows they need it–and acts of charity on our part can only help.
be fearless & be God’s. verso l’alto!
Lucia
Father,
The RCIA Instructor at my parish made mention that historically there have been women deacons and that she hoped that “tradition” would be restored. Is this correct and what sort of rebuttal could be offered (in charity)?
Thank you for that wonderful video-clip. The dance at the end is deeply funny. And, at the risk of lowering the tone, can’t they find someone even faintly cute to get “ordained”?
The graying of the left does offer some hope!
I think I’m gonna have a tough time falling to sleep tonight. Might well be a double rosary to help these poor, misguided people. Why can’t they just listen to the Bishop of Rome where they attempted to stage this … this … I don’t know what to call it.
Luke D. asked: The RCIA Instructor at my parish made mention that historically there have been women deacons and that she hoped that “tradition” would be restored. Is this correct and what sort of rebuttal could be offered (in charity)?
Yes, it is true that there were deaconesses in the past. However, the Church made clear everyone understood that the consecration of a deaconess was not a conferral of Holy Orders. Rather like a religious sister. One of the chief duties of a deaconess was to assist with the baptisms of adult women, since a convert back then was baptised completely nude (to symbolise rebirth), something that would make it kind of difficult for a bishop, priest, or deacon to do. In such cases, the minister of baptism would say the words of the rite in the next room or from behind a screen while the deaconesses poured the buckets of water over the woman’s head three times in the Name of the Trinity. As time went on, nude baptism became less common, so there was less need for deaconesses. If we ever revived the practice of nude baptism, I suppose we’d see a return of deaconesses, but I doubt that will ever happen.
How funny that such a small group was all they could muster up, being that they represent “millions” of Catholics. Oy!
Wholly whales watman! What’s with the W’s?
“They represent the millions of Catholics”
Would those be the devout Catholics that are always mentioned in the papers but rarely seen in the pews?
Maureen: Amen sister.
It’s almost like the wymnpriests don’t realize that they look like fools when they play Mass (eyeroll…ugh) Coming from someone who has looked at Catholicism from a non-Catholic perspective(before converting), their little display is laughable. Ignoring the grave theological, moral, and spiritual elements of women’s ‘ordination’ and defiance of Church law, what person seeking spiritual truth would ever, *ever* turn to a group like them? The reason they want to change Catholicism to their own little group is because they know that if they split off and formed an independent group, no one would come. Only by infecting an already-existing, widespread religion can they gain even the slightest bit of credibility. But even that dissapears when they start kumbaya-ing….
I found it rather ironic that the woman doing the “ordaining” insisted on absolute silence when she laid her hands on them. She stressed it a couple of times. What good can silence provide, we wonder? The liberals have filled most Masses with such cacophanies, insisting that “active participation” means constant noise. If the laying of hands required silence (!) even in her wacky alternative universe, how much more so while assisting at [the real] Calvary. Maybe she was implying that the gifts are best received while we are quiet and attentive. Amen. I’ll take that isolated moment, sister, and raise you an entire reverential Mass.
Oh good grief, that video! Those people actually believe they’re witnessing an ordination? If so, then it’s quite clear they’ve never witnessed a real ordination.
That “music”–my ears won’t stop ringing.
As usual, Father, your comments make the whole fiasco a little more easy to read about. :)
Isn’t it a bit strange that a bunch of self-proclaimed “womenpriests” shouts “ordain catholic women”?
After all, according to their own claim, they already are ordained catholic women.
Thank you, Jordanes.
I can almost hear the Italian carabiniere…
“Signore, facciano le brave. Mi diano i passaporti, andiamo avanti…”
We need to support the priesthood as it traditionally has been – a male, celibate priesthood. What can be done to encourage vocations to the actual priesthood? I think one of the best ways will be through the widespread implementation of the TLM which gives a priest back his rightful role. The priesthood has been under assault from many factions…in my Diocese we have FutureChurch, Call to Action, womyn demanding to become priests, etc. Isn’t it time to return to tradition and stop the never ending circus of “change”? New doesn’t always equate with improved. And, I’ve raised the issue before on this site of a married permanent diaconate presenting a risk to vocations to a celibate priesthood. Jayna has posted above:
“The permanent diaconate seems to be spawning deacons like rabbits in my parish. We have six already with two or three more in training. Our deacons outnumber our priest 2:1”.
In my Diocese this past year the ratio of married permanent deacons vs. priests ordained was 4:1. Traditionally, the role of a deacon was the last step in a process of formation which ended in ordination as a priest, not as an end in itself, correct? So what is the compelling reason for encouraging a married permanent diaconate?
BridgetMary’s original post says,
“The Pontifical Biblical Commission determined in 1976 that there is no scriptural reason to prohibit the ordination of women.”
WHAT?!?!? IS THIS TRUE? I know that 1976 was not a high watermark for any of the Vatican organizations, but this is a bit of a surprise.
Is BridgetMary correct? Or is she just making this up?
Yes, she is correct. The PBC did make the determination at that time that that the Bible alone is not adequate to establish that only men can be ordained. For that, one must consult not just the Bible, but also the unvarying Tradition and Magisterium of the Church, which supplements the meagre scriptural testimony and shows what the biblical testimony means: Holy Orders is a sacrament that can only be given to men.
Advocates of women’s ordination like to use that PBC determination, but only if you believe in the heresy of Sola Scriptura would one be able to use what the PBC found as an argument in favor of the heretical and sacrilegious perversion of Holy Orders that so many favor.
And next????? Few years and they will argue their right to be Pope. And the masses will be screamin Mama !! instead…..and Peter’s chair will become /Patricia’s………
Supporters of female ordaination are up against historical, theological, and doctrinal walls.
Historical: Deaconesses were, according to my memory, only a temporal thing, and they weren’t even ordained either: they were just women who helped the Priests (hence the title “deaconess”).
Theological: If Mary the Mother of God wasn’t ordained, than why should any other woman be? More importantly, Jesus is the God-Man, He is a true Man, and since the Priest acts in the Person of Christ, only a man can be ordained.
Doctrinal: The Church has made it clear to the point of shining glass that women can not and will not be ordained, ever. The Church cannot change Jesus. It has the keys to the Kingdom, but it dose not have omnipotence.