Right now I am watching the Mass from the Vatican Basilica for the 4th anniversary of the death of Pope John Paul II.
The whole Mass has been in Italian… up to the Preface.
The Preface was sung by the Holy Father in Latin with a Latin Sanctus.
But… Italian Eucharistic Prayer…
Latin Our Father
Latin Angus Dei
As usual the Holy Father gave Holy Communion only to those who knelt and received on the tongue.
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A Daily Prayer for Priests
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since Sat., 25 Nov. 2006:
I might be wrong, but the pallium the Pope is wearing today looks a little wider/larger than the one he has been wearing since the coming of Msgr. Marini as master of ceremonies. Is this yet another “pallium makeover” or is this the same one?
I recently re-read George Weigel’s “Chosen by God”, which contains an extensive remembrance of the days leading up to, and the day of, John Paul’s passing.
It was powerful to recall those days.
i always found it ‘amusing’ that the latin Eucharistic prayer states ‘pro multis’ yet all the vernacular translations say ‘for all’
Maybe we should take a cue from the French and just translate it as “for the multitude”?
Santo Subito!
Ioannes Paulus Magnus, ora pro nobis!
Geoffrey,
You mean “Ioannes Paule Magne.” It’s the vocative.
While I don’t think that “for all” is invalid it’s certainly hits all the way to my core every time I hear it. Especially in Masses where the priest says all the words without much care and then punches those two words like they are the premise of his thesis.
With all this talk of the reform of the reform my greatest hope is that the Holy Father will lead by example and refrain from using Eucharistic Prayers with this absolutley scandalous translation.
The whole pro multis discussion has been totally dissected on this blog.
Happily, it is no longer a point of concern.
The new translation will be “for many”.
Mr. Wallace said: “You mean ‘Ioannes Paule Magne.’ It’s the vocative.”
Thank you for the correction! I do not pretend to be a Latinist. I had seen the phrase “Ioannes Paulus Magnus” and so naively added “ora pro nobis” to it.
And to think I’ve been saying it wrong for the past 4 years on a blog full of Latinists and only now am I being corrected! ;-)
yeah Father sorry I wasn’t trying to bring up a soon to be dead issue again it was just on my mind since you mentioned the italian Eucharistic Prayer [It is a good thing to remind people that the new translation is coming and that there will be differences!]
I was just watching the DVD I have from EWTN of the funeral Mass for John Paul II. It still makes me cry!
I saw the vestments of the Cardinals back then, and I thought, ‘Man-what a difference four years make!’ They looked soooo ’70s!
But I still miss him….Servant of God John Paul II, please pray for us, as you see us from the House of the Father! Pray for your successor, our Papa Benedict-ask Our Lord to protect and defend him! May I see your beatification and canonization in my lifetime!
Santo Subito!
For those who read German, there is a more sober evaluation of the JPII pontificate just out at http://www.kreuz.net/article.8936.html
It might be timely to also consider that we would do well also to pray for the repose of the soul of our late pope. It is unfortunate that many who have a reputation for piety on earth often suffer the fate of having few to pray FOR them after death.
As I assume was the case at the Pope’s Mass this morning, let us also pray for John Paul II. If he does not need the prayers, I’m sure he will find a use for them–if he does need them, I’m sure he will thank his loyal sons and daughters.
Not to be invidious, but look at what Benedict has accomplished in 4 years v. what John Paul accomplished in 25. At Assisi I and II, JP II invited every bizarre man-made religion in the world, but not the Traditionalists! They translated pro multis accurately and therefore someone was being left out. Now Benedict, in fact, says the traditionalist Mass, albeit in parts, including kneeling for Holy Communion on the tongue, and it is acceptable.
I thank God every day He has allowed me to see this day!
I prayed the Office for the Dead, and offered my Rosary for, the repose of the soul of our late Holy Father.
Thanks for the reminder, sparksj3….
Re above comments to the German article on kreuz.net: there is an on-line translation – although in computerspeak and not real English. It gives an insight into the contents at least.
It will take time – a lot of time – properly to evaluate the late Pope’s reign wthout the emotional overtones that his near memory tends still to evoke. Personally, I rejoice in the present Pope’s reign. He has become his own man and not someone who needs or should live in the shadow of his predecessor. Things are moving on apace considerably now. There was much for this Pope to take on and deal with.
Is it significant that the Holy Father is wearing purple rather than the usual red for papal requiem Masses?
“We can be sure that our beloved Pope is standing today at the window of the Father’s house, that he sees us and blesses us. Yes, bless us, Holy Father. We entrust your dear soul to the Mother of God, your Mother, who guided you each day and who will guide you now to the eternal glory of her Son, our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen” (Joseph Card. Ratzinger, 8 April 2005).
Bob:
Maybe because a Lenten day has precedence over a papal Requiem?
Yet again, people miss the point. When did it become open season on JPII?
“Not to be invidious, but look at what Benedict has accomplished in 4 years v. what John Paul accomplished in 25. At Assisi I and II, JP II invited every bizarre man-made religion in the world, but not the Traditionalists! They translated pro multis accurately and therefore someone was being left out. Now Benedict, in fact, says the traditionalist Mass, albeit in parts, including kneeling for Holy Communion on the tongue, and it is acceptable.”
You ARE invidious, and suggesting that JPII rejected the Tradi’s, one has to wonder why he would do such a thing. Is it because noone can EVER satisfy the Tradi’s? Is it because we scoff at people who don’t do what we want? It is because we always think that we can do everything better than everyone else?
If this rift is going to be healed, we have to start looking at the plank in our own eye before blaming others.
I’m sure this is going to incite venomous comments with a complete lack of charity, but Jesus wasn’t popular either.
Saw this post about the first miracle that may be attributed to the late JP the Great.
http://regularthoughts.blogspot.com/2009/04/pope-john-paul-ii-miraculous.html
Then there’s one about a nun who was cured of Parkinson’s Disease after praying for the Pope’s intercession.
And the final blessing was in Latin!
Let’s not forget what Pope Benedict XVI said about John Paul II at Bari(his first trip outside of Rome as Pope):
“My venerable and beloved Predecessor, Pope John Paul II, would also have liked to have been here at this important ecclesial event, as you know. We all feel that he is close to us and with us is glorifying Christ, the Good Shepherd, whom he can now contemplate directly.”
Also Cardinal Dziwisz said that it’s a lie that Ratzinger was ever against the Assisi meetings.
And let’s not forget His visit to the Mosque in Turkey, which the French District Superior for the SSPX said:
“But even if the Pope restores the Holy Mass, we certainly won’t forget at the same time, however, that he is also the pope who took off his shoes in a mosque, and that this pope will have contributed to the great humiliation of the Catholic Church in our day.”
I don’t think that there is much difference between John Paul and Benedict when it comes to ecumenism, and I am happy for that. I miss John Paul the Great, but at the same time, grateful to God, that Benedict is continuing his work.
Santo Subito!!!
I do wish people would stop referring to John Paul II as “John Paul the Great” – he has not been declared as “Great” such as Gregory, but it was a simple passing comment in Benedict XVI’s spiel.
Unfortunately, I do not want to see JP II made a Saint, as it will be on the basis that most of his pontificate is viewed – popularity.
“…he has not been declared as ‘Great'”
No one needs to declare him “the Great”. The honour comes from continuous use. If it sticks, it sticks; if it doesn’t, it doesn’t.
Many people have been using it, including Cardinal Pell of Sydney. And there is a school somewhere in the USA using it as well.
I don’t understand the negative comments about John Paul the Great. He opened wide the doors of Jesus Christ, and his friend and successor Benedict is shepherding his flock back to the Holy Church’s beautiful traditions. May John Paul watch over and bless our Holy Father.
I think it is perfectly acceptable for people to hesitate at the addition of “the Great”. We are pretty close to that Pontificate. The late Holy Father’s cause is still in course.
He was a great Pope in so many ways. But it is a bit early.