“The Latin Mass is like beer. You have to drink it in a few times to like it.” Why Taylor Marshall attends the TLM.

May I suggest that you trot like Chaucer over to Taylor Marshall’s place and read his reflection on why he now attends Holy Mass in the Usus Antiquior?

Some highlights to whet the… you know…

I’ve not always been partial to the Latin Mass. For a few years after my conversion to the Catholic Faith, I was cautiously curious about the the “old Mass.” I perceived it as exotic, antiquarian, and even as a dangerous.


Most of it had to do with my alarm at the liturgical abuse that we witnessed. For example, the first time that my 4 year old daughter saw female “altar boys” serving at the altar, she tugged on my sleeve and said, “Daddy, look. I wanna be a girl priest, too.” Not encouraging.


The EM to whom we were routed that day was wearing jeans and she had on an over sized blue shirt with a giant image of Grover’s face. I just did a Google search and found a picture of the exact shirt: …


As I returned to my pew, I thought inwardly: “This is it! I just can’t take it anymore. Things have to change Lord. I’m now desperate. I don’t want my children to grow up with this perception of the one true Faith.” I had seen worse things than this before, but for some reason the Grover moment broke me.

I was now ready to make full hearted foray into the Latin Mass community served by the FSSP (Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter – in union with the Holy Father, of course). Yet, I had a few pre-conceived notions against the Latin Mass and its adherents.


The Latin Mass is like beer. You have to drink it in a few times to like it. My challenge would be for you to attend the Latin Mass for four Sundays in a row before making a decision. Give it that long. Here’s why.

You will slowly make a shift in the way that you assist at Holy Mass. Your concept of Active Participation will transform in your heart. There is a lot of quiet “space” in the Latin Mass. The first time or so, you’ll be sitting there doing nothing and thinking, “What’s going on? Why aren’t we doing anything?”

When you’ve reached that point, you’re getting close. It’s like drinking beer for the first time. “This tastes terrible? What’s the hype? I don’t understand.” But then you come to realize that beer is more than just the taste.


Read the rest there.

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
This entry was posted in "How To..." - Practical Notes, Benedict XVI, Liturgy Science Theatre 3000, New Evangelization, Our Catholic Identity, SUMMORUM PONTIFICUM, The Drill and tagged , , , . Bookmark the permalink.


  1. jesuitschooled says:

    I immediately thought of the Homer Simpson quote which is similar. I will change it to fit this post:

    “The Latin Mass is a lot like…uh…a beer! It looks good, it smells good, you’d climb over your own mother just to get one! But you can’t stop at just one! You wanna drink another Latin Mass”

  2. benedetta says:

    I certainly bought into all those old stereotypes he listed and never thought twice about it. For me, the first openness towards the Latin Mass and certainly the bashing of the old stereotypes about those attached to it occurred around 2007 or so when I happened to be talking to a very smart, very hip, culturally sophisticated, cosmopolitan and international person affiliated with the movement Communione e Liberazione. He spoke glowingly of the Latin Mass, its beauty, the reverence, the history and tradition, the musical traditions, the sense of awe. That personal interaction for me pretty much smashed all previous stereotypes in one fell swoop.

    Later I came to feel that Latin Mass folks, along with generally orthodox folks, in many places have been subjected to a persecution. Suddenly I felt a solidarity with the people who attended the Latin Mass though I hadn’t or wouldn’t attend myself.

    I have found that folks are as Mr. Marshall describes. I haven’t found excessive rigidity, and I haven’t found people more vocally judgmental either. People are generally friendly. In all honesty, people are people and I am sure I could find a sense of community in any parish or even place of worship. Really for me now attending a parish which offers the Latin Mass and receiving my sacraments there, I have a greater continued sense of joy and peace, and feel much more connected to the liturgical calendar and the whole Church.

    As to the stereotypes I don’t doubt that a lot of it was foisted upon people, an effort to marginalize and demonize in the war against orthodoxy. But I don’t doubt that there must have also been a commensurate bunker mentality, which I expect has changed to a degree due to the motu proprio. Anyway, I have never experienced any of that, and from what I have observed, that is all in the past.

  3. benedetta says:

    I should also add, around that time I met a family while at a monastery in France, from England, who I found out after getting to know them a bit that they attended the Latin Mass. Again, since they did not fit the stereotype, I was surprised at first. And, again, this personal encounter gave me a new openness towards the ancient rite of the Mass.

  4. The Sicilian Woman says:

    When I went to my first EF Mass out of curiosity, I had precious little idea of what was going on, except for the consecration. I’d arrived a little late, and in my haste to get seated, I missed the table in the back of the church where the Sunday missal booklets were, so I had no guide. There were definitely some, “What’s going on?” moments, just as Marshall had had.

    It was nostalgic seeing the communicants receiving the Eucharist kneeling…at the altar rail…from a priest, so I did enjoy that. My last memory of experiencing that was when I was a child.

    I left my first EF Mass not knowing exactly how I felt about it, yet thinking that I needed to go a few more times to “get it.” Reading here and elsewhere, I’ve found that that’s apparently the norm.

  5. kallman says:

    Beer or Trappist Ale?

  6. friarpark says:

    Would love to attend one, but I don’t know of any within a reasonable driving distance from Dodge County in WI. Anyone know of a current listing online?

  7. James Joseph says:

    I absolutely got it the very first time even at Low Mass.

    I absolutely even more got it this past week when I attended ‘Our Lady Immaculate of Lourdes’ in Newton, MA… not once but twice for Solemn High Mass.

  8. A Sinner 2 says:

    I took my 20-year-old daughter to a TLM (FSSP Low Mass) for the first time a few weeks ago. She described it as “spooky.”

    On reflection, I realized her description was entirely appropriate, as the TLM conveys the supernatural nature of the Mass in a way the NO does not.

  9. JKnott says:

    I just love Dr. Taylor Marshall and his fascinating blog!

    My nephew and his wife didn’t know much about the EF but took the one hour drive one Sunday to see what is was all about. After that initial visit, of their 6 home schooled children, the 3 oldest boys (who are servers in their NO parish) begged the parents to be able to go to the EF regularly; and this without any prior interest or coaching by the parents. Now they attend once a month. The last one to make her First Holy Communion was given the choice and she chose to receive at the EF Mass.
    It is interesting to me that in a good Catholic home schooled environment, like theirs, where Godly innocence is protected, the children immediately saw clearly, of their own free will , to choose what many adults have trouble with.

  10. disco says:

    I loved the TLM immediately. My first time I didn’t know what was going on I could barely follow along, I came in a few minutes late because I was a college student taking the train. I didn’t know about the red books. I knew a little latin from high school but I couldn’t really make out most of what was said anyway. The sermon was on the four last things. I didn’t know what that was after 6 years of Jesuit education to that point.

    I knew from the moment I knelt in the pew that I’d never want to go to the novus ordo ever again.

    Incidentally I loved beer immediately too. Though I confess I don’t remember much of that experience.

  11. netokor says:

    I have been attending the Latin Mass for more than a year. I feel sad that my generation was deprived of it for so long. It would be difficult to find an English Mass equally reverent. As long as I am able I will avoid the noise of the show choir, the altar girls, the hand shaking and holding, the armies of “Eucharistic ministers” and the non-sermons. Thank God for Pope Benedict!

  12. netokor says:

    Friarpark, here’s a link to check out,


  13. Scott_Alt says:

    I like the beer analogy; it rings true. I have the opportunity to attend TLM about once a month. The first time I attended one, I was still going through RCIA, and although I appreciated the beauty of it I was taken aback by the foreignness of it; I don’t just mean the language. But it grows on me the more I go.

  14. Luvadoxi says:

    Dr. Marshall’s Grover Moment reminded me of the time I received Communion from an EMHC who was wearing capri pants and a shirt with a sparkly vodka glass on it (with olives). I couldn’t stop looking at that vodka glass. It was ironic. Or something.

  15. fvhale says:

    It is possible, of course, for the forma ordinaria to be deformed into little more than a “birthday party” (e.g. Pentecost, Christmas) or a country club “ice breaker” before the “real meal” of tri-tip, through the ignorance and self-will of the people, the misguided but often good pastoral intentions of the priest, and the “looking the other way” of the ordinary. What percentage of “ordinary Catholics” believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist?

    But just like really bad and failed marriages are not enough to “write off” the institution, so also such hideous deformations (and I have been to some whoppers) should not result in abandonment of the forma ordinaria; although I can understand seeking a refuge of sanity and sanctity in regular forma extraordinaria participation.

    But we need to keep working on both: expanding the openness to and participation in the forma extraordinaria (which actually requires some training), and also in love patiently working to bring the deformed forma ordinaria back to something beautiful and holy.

  16. frjim4321 says:


    Battery of glaucoma tests today.

    All negative.

    Baseline test four months ago determined to be inaccurate.

    Thanks to all for the prayers.

    [You be able to see the black and see the red for a while longer!]

  17. frjim4321 Deo Gratias!

    I remember my first thought attending the TLM….”What were they thinking getting rid of this?” If this had been around, the reversion wouldn’t have been necessary.

  18. StWinefride says:

    There used to be a Heineken advert that went:

    Heineken refreshes the parts other beers cannot reach.

    When I started attending the TLM I amusingly used to think to myself:

    The Latin Mass refreshes the parts that the New Mass cannot reach.

    1974 advert for Heineken over on YouTube (I won’t link direct):


    Excellent news, frjim4321!

  19. Jana says:

    A matter of taste. I always loved beer, since childhood – nothing tastes better. The first time I had a opportunity to attend the tridentine mass (low mass), I looked probably like Berninis St. Teresa. Loved it immediatelly.

  20. pmullane says:

    Fr Jim – Congratulations, God is Good indeed.

    In terms of the Extraoridinary form, to learn to love it you must be humble towards it. It may feel awkward, it may be uncomfortable, you may not be sure whats going on, but you need to know that if you stick with it and accept it and work hard you will get there. If you get frustrated with the fact that sometimes you get lost as to where your up to, and sometimes you cant hear the priest, and sometimes you dont understand what he’s saying, then theres a chance that you wont grow to love it so much. The Novus Ordo (in the vernacular) is much easier to follow, but its also much easier to be distracted in, as you dont have to do any work to know whats going on. The EF can sometimes be too much of a culture shock.

  21. Phil_NL says:

    While I’m glad for Mr Marshall, the scientific streak in my mind produces a warning light – the one that goes flashing when necessary distinctions aren’t made.

    The thing is, the attractiveness of the EF is described in terms of the lack of abuses, mistakes and silliness that often is found in OF Masses. Of course, the EF has much stricter rubrics, and attracts a crowd unlikely to desire (or have much patience for) the typical follies seen in many US and European Masses – so it’s quite logical that the EF is a refuge.

    But if the EF acts as such, it’s not a feature of the EF that is attractive, as is implicitly suggested. It’s the OF, as often implemented – which we all know can be a very far cry from how it should be implemented – that’s unattractive. It’s a ‘running away’ rather than a ‘running towards’. Now I grant that some people may find the destination of their escape remarkably pleasing in its own right, but that element – the inherent riches of an EF compared to a properly done OF – seldom makes it into the public accounts.
    Which, I predict, is in the end poor marketing. The silly season in the OF will end, and slowly but steadily, it is already on the wane in many places. If one wants to shore up the EF – a fragile seedling in many places – talk more about what is special and good about it, and not how poor the competition is. If there is any prejudice regarding ‘the EF-crowd’ that does have some merit, it’s that a lot of emphasis is placed on the failings elsewhere.

    Now again, I’m happy for Mr Marshall, and don’t wish to critize him for anything; he just wrote about his experiences. But there is a general trend, encountered here and elsewhere, of comparing poor OFs with decent EFs. That distinction is, at least in part, false – and I think it’s good to challenge it.
    To continue the analogy: A beer that has to get sales solely by noting how poor the other ales taste, will only be successful as long as the rest does leave a poor taste in the mouth. Yet new beers may enter the market, and old ones adjust their recipe; brewers, beware.

  22. JonPatrick says:

    I am the one attender of the EF that doesn’t hunt (although I do fish) nor own a gun, although I’ve been thinking seriously about getting one soon, before the Obama administration makes it illegal to buy one.

  23. benedetta says:

    frjim4321, I’m glad those tests came back negative!

  24. skvie5738 says:

    We are a couple in our early twenties who have been attending mass in the Extraordinary Form for a year and a half. The first time we walked into the church (neither of us had been to Latin mass before), my husband caught his breath and then once he exhaled, his words were, “I’m home.”

    The Latin mass is so beautiful. If any of those who are reading this have never attended it, please go! It will change your life and your whole perspective on the mass.

  25. OrthodoxChick says:

    I never had been to, nor knew anything about a TLM until I found my way to this blog. Reading Fr. Z’s posts and the comments here made me want to get to one asap. I fell in love with it instantly. I am still more clueless about it than I would like to be, but I know that with patience, experience, education, and most of all with God’s Grace, I will gradually be led to a deeper level of worship by attending the Latin Mass more often.

    I agree with “netokor”. I feel that I/my generation has been deeply deprived of the richness and beauty of our faith. In my case, I was ignorant of the Latin Mass, but I am finding out that I was also deprived of a classical Catholic education. Sometimes, when I read the posts here about classical literature and mythology, it is the first time I am hearing of such things. And I was educated in Catholic schools for all but Kindergarten and grades 7-9. Yet, I wouldn’t be surprised if I learned that I am actually less educated in the classics than some public school kids in my generation. I think that our Catholic schools need to return to providing the classical education that they were once known for. As it stands now, in general, there isn’t much that distinguishes a catholic school from a public school and that is a shame. I hope and pray that more bishops will come to realize how vitally important both the Latin Mass and a classical Catholic education are to the future of the Church. Our laity and future priests and religious should not be deprived of the fullness of our faith any longer.

    And a mini-rant, if I may. In the 21st Century in America, it is ridiculous that those of us who are developing a love of a Vatican-approved, legitimate, time-honored Latin Rite of our faith are made to feel like we’re part of some sort of underground movement within the Church.

  26. ReginaMarie says:

    Good news Fr. Jim, thanks for sharing!

    I’d offer the same suggestion for attending the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom (or St. Basil the Great, or less commonly, St. James) for the first time. Rather than use the beer analogy…the DL at first may seem like an exotic, intoxicating, yet fulfilling drink. Don’t worry about trying to follow along…just be present & soak in all of the Liturgy’s reverence, mystery, supplicati0n & awe. You may find that, like us, there is no turning back.

  27. OUChevelleSS says:


    I believe Dr. Marshall’s post comes from a rebuttal perspective rather than the extrinsic merits of the TLM. There are plenty of things one could talk about to advertise the beauty of the TLM: the music, Gregorian Chant, the decorum, the prayers of the Mass itself, the ceremonial and symbolic reverent gestures (what is it, 36 signs of the cross vs. 3 in the NO?), the holy silence, just to name a few.

  28. Therese says:

    “I have noticed that Latin Mass men universally own guns and are into hunting.”


    Wonderful blog, and he has an excellent e-mail newsletter, by the way.

    Dr. Marshall may not realize that shopping for clothing can be a frustrating exercise for women who want to dress modestly. Thus not a few of those denim jumpers are homemade and do double-duty. (What we REALLY need is decent sewing instruction. Help, Edna Bishop!)

    The point is that love easily trumps all other concerns regarding weird Traddies–including sitting next to gals wearing ‘doilies’ on their heads–and this comes across loud and clear in his original post.

  29. Frank H says:

    friarpark, isn’t Madison reasonably near Dodge County?

    See this:


  30. acardnal says:

    friarpark, you are about equidistant from TLM/EF Masses in Platteville, Roxbury (near Sauk City), Pine Bluff and Madison. I encourage you to attend.

    St. Mary’s in Platteville: daily at 6:30 am, Sunday at 8 am at St. Augustine

    St. Norbert’s in Roxbury: 11 am Sun. during winter months, 10 am during summer.

    Holy Redeemer in Madison: Sundays, 7 am.
    Two Missa Cantata (High Masses) are scheduled in January at Holy Redeemer, Jan 20 and 27. All others are Low Masses.

    St. Mary’s in Pine Bluff: Wednesday at 5:30 pm.

    Here is the link to the Tridentine Mass Society of Madison:

  31. acardnal says:

    friarpark, I have posted times, locations and links to the TLM/EF Mass near you in Dodgeville county. It is awaiting moderation. Please check back here periodically.

  32. Athelstan says:

    “Daddy, look. I wanna be a girl priest, too.”

    Some might suggest that’s a feature of female altar servers, not a bug.

    “My challenge would be for you to attend the Latin Mass for four Sundays in a row before making a decision. Give it that long.”

    That’s been popular advice by traditionalists to newcomers for a long time, and I think that it is sound advice. It takes at least a few times to fully “get” it. And the adjustment for modern minds – unused to quiet, or contemplation – can take a bit longer.

  33. acardnal says:

    Here is a short video I found on NLM’s website this morning of Bp. Schneider’s Pontifical Solemn TLM/EF Mass in NYC. Beautiful music and choir can be heard just before and after the consecration.


  34. StWinefride says:

    acardnal: Thank you for posting the video – a sight for sore eyes. Over at Rorate Caeli, I have just seen a most unfortunate video of Liturgical Dancing during a Mass celebrated by Bishop Tom Williams, Auxiliary of Liverpool at Liverpool’s Metropolitan Cathedral to welcome the relics of St John Bosco to Liverpool.
    Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us.

  35. PA mom says:

    A cardinal- that music is SO beautiful. Thank you.

  36. backtothefuture says:

    I discovered the tlm by doing research on the internet because since I was born in Italy, I was always attracted to the beauty of the church. When I attended my first missa cantata, I felt I finally arrived home. Now that I have my 1962 missal, I understand the tridentine mass. I am very blessed to attend a solemn high mass every sunday, heck, I even got to attend a pontifical mass this past weekend with bishop Athanasius Schneider. I’ll go to a n.o mass during the week, but there is no going back. It’s not the n.o isn’t valid, the problem is that it isn’t truly catholic. The catholic dna is missing from it.

  37. Precentrix says:


    This might interest you:
    So it’s in the UK, but maybe something could be started in your neck of the woods.

  38. Long-Skirts says:

    OrthodoxChick says:

    “I agree with “netokor”. I feel that I/my generation has been deeply deprived of the richness and beauty of our faith. In my case, I was ignorant of the Latin Mass, but I am finding out that I was also deprived of a classical Catholic education. . . I hope and pray that more bishops will come to realize how vitally important both the Latin Mass and a classical Catholic education are to the future of the Church. Our laity and future priests and religious should not be deprived of the fullness of our faith any longer.”

    This is your inheritance and the fruit of the True Mass will be the WHOLE Catholic Faith…priestly and religious vocations, seminaries, convents, monasteries, TRUE Catholic Schools, retreat houses and on and on…


    They cancelled all color
    Sanctuaries stripped
    First Communions were duller.

    No crinoline whites
    Pale hues they stressed
    Only pearled-Pharisees
    Are ever so dressed.

    Roses, carnations,
    Flowers, all manners
    Left just to wither
    Gainst assertive beige banners.

    Pillars of marble
    Corinthian styles
    They decided to paint
    Like pink bathroom tiles.

    Cassocks of red
    Habits blue-white
    Robes of distinction
    Extinct over night.

    Missals with pages
    Embossed in gloss-gold
    Latin in tint
    English-black to behold.

    Even the ribbons
    To mark scriptural prayers
    Were of green, yellow, silvers
    So to keep us from errors.

    The soft votive flames
    The red opaque glass
    Gave an aura of stillness
    Like time could not pass.

    Yet time it passed
    Vividness drained
    And populations without color
    Cannot be sustained.

    So those underground
    With red blood in blue veins
    Birthed knowledge, the arts
    Great virtues they’ve gained.

    They did not decay
    God’s colors kept green
    For the day up above
    Once again to be seen.

    Except for those beige
    Gray fertility fades
    In their black open minds.

  39. ChronicSinner says:

    We are blessed here in Memphis to have access to the TLM and the thrust of Marshall’s piece resonated (“wink wink”) with me. Our priest is a very holy man and arrived at our parish about 2 years ago. He has gone to great lengths to learn the TLM after being asked by our bishop to learn it. So, kudos to them both.

    I remember going to my first TLM a couple of years ago, after 40 plus years of being raised in the N.O. rite, and I was certainly a little disoriented and lost in a way. But I came away from my first experience wanting more and kept going back, and I must say, that I prefer it over the N.O. rite.

    I can’t always make one on Sundays, because of my schedule, but even that limitation can bear fruit, in the sense that when I go to the N.O. in various parishes throughout the Diocese of Memphis, I can see the often stark differences between the two rites in how they are approached by the laity. Those differences can be summed up in three words; reverence, quiet, and efficacy.

    Indeed, I was talking recently with Fr. Chad Ripperger, whom many of you may be familiar with through his various writings about, among other things, Church Tradtion and the merits of the TLM vis-a-vis the N.O. He had just offered up the Sacrifice via the Extraordinary rite at our parish here in Memphis this past October, and I was able to speak with him a bit after Mass over a cup of coffee in the gym. I mentioned to him how much I enjoyed an article of his comparing and contrasting the intrisic and extrinsic merits of the two rites and the experience of a friend of mine who had shared the article with a Catholic prayer group of hers the past Lent. The prayer group was not familiar with the TLM nor the FSSP, and treated her as if she had a brought a dead cat into the room when she shared the article with them. He chuckled and said he wasn’t too surprised by that, since he had had similar reactions from fellow clergy and the powers that be, and indeed, the article had been refered to Rome for “evaluation” of its content. He also happens to be an exorcist, and he told me that the demons he has had interaction with, have told him that they actually fear the E.F. and hence flee the sanctuary during the consecration under the old rite. Pretty cool!

  40. acardnal says:

    All, please notice in the above video how H.E. Bishop Schneider holds his thumb and forefinger together – as Fr. Z noted elsewhere – after the host and wine are consecrated (approx. 3:48 and 4:42 min. mark). This is an ancient gesture of reverence because those canonical and consecrated digits have touched the very holy body, blood, soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Save the liturgy, save the world.

  41. acardnal says:

    friarpark, I misread your location as Dodgeville not Dodge County. Apologies. In any event, I believe the locations I cited would be the most convenient other than perhaps Milwaukee or Wausau depending on your exact location in Dodge county. There is also a TLM/EF in Sheboygan on Sundays.

  42. acardnal says:

    StWinefride wrote: Over at Rorate Caeli, I have just seen a most unfortunate video of Liturgical Dancing during a Mass celebrated by Bishop Tom Williams, Auxiliary of Liverpool at Liverpool’s Metropolitan Cathedral to welcome the relics of St John Bosco to Liverpool.
    Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us.

    More appropriate during a halftime ceremony at the Super Bowl perhaps than at the divine liturgy.

  43. Cecily says:

    I’m so glad this person had an FSSP parish as an alternative. I hope readers will pray that someday we will have an FSSP parish in my state, or maybe just over the border in an adjoining state. Thanks!!

  44. acricketchirps says:

    I’m like Jana. Always loved beer–even in my childish tastes–and loved the EF from the very first time–even in all my confusion.

    Since the Bishop here surrendered to Universae Ecclesiae, attending Mass on Sundays (we don’t have ferial days yet) has been an absolute unmitigated pleasure. Should I feel guilty?

    Nowadays, when I’m forced to attend the NO, I find all the things that used to bug the Hell outta me (the noise, the clapping, the hand holding, the bad music, the odd emotive priest, etc. ad naus.), no longer bother me at all. Does this mean since the EF arrived in my town, I’ve unconconsciously adopted an “I’ve got mine, don’t care about yours” attitude? Should I force myself to attend NO Masses as a mortification?

  45. Eriugena says:

    My first TLM was many years ago in SuperTradMum’s church in London. I “understood” very little of what was happening, but knew something very deep had changed forever.

  46. Darren says:

    My first TLM was a low mass at my modern church building parish in 2007(?) which our then-new pastor (who celebrated it once a month at his previous parish) decided to do on the parish’s 125th anniversary. I was very interested, curious… but, it didn’t leave a good or bad taste in my mouth. Maybe it was the modern surroundings.

    Then I met friends a Mater Ecclesiae (Berlin, NJ) a couple years ago for a high mass. I liked it but had a hard time following along in the missals they have available.

    Last year I started going there once as month or so, low mass, then high mass… then I stopped trying to follow along. I went for Christ the King and it was a most beautiful mass. It was growing on me.

    Then, I was finally completed ‘converted’ when I went to 3 high masses in 4 days, starting the Saturday after Thanksgiving when I assisted at a high mass on a Saturday afternoon in Newark, NJ (which I learned about here on this blog!). The next morning I was in Jersey City and assisted at high mass at an old waterfront parish. The following Tuesday was the Feast of the Miraculous Medal and Trenton Bishop O’Connell celebrated a Pontifical High Mass in Trenton… …after that, I am completely desiring the TLM. I’ll be at Mater Ecclesiae or someplace else more frequently until it is available regularly somewhere less than a 50-60 minute drive from my home.

  47. priests wife says:

    long skirts- I always enjoy your poetry- and this poem hits home. We celebrate a Byzantine Catholic Divine Liturgy at a local Roman-rite (very large) chapel. It is rather plain, but symmetrical. We bring out 4 life size portable icons to simulate an icon screen. They always look a bit silly with the off-white banners on the wall (or the desert rock and cactus scene that my husband has to climb around during Lent….)

  48. (X)MCCLXIII says:

    I disagree very strongly. If it’s done with respect for tradition, only one mouthful is necessary. And the same goes for the Mass.

  49. Eric says:

    I, like other posters, liked both from the first time.

    If I’d only went to a Latin mass when I was 12 and started drinking beer when I was 40, I’d probably be better off.

  50. StWinefride says:

    OrthodoxChick: Thank you for pointing out EWTN Live with Bishop Schneider on another thread.

    Over here in Europe it would have been on at 02.00 am! (01.00 GMT) but with luck we have an Encore Presentation of that program tonight at 21.00 Rome time (20.00 GMT).

    I also came across this yesterday. In Rome in 2010 Bishop Schneider spoke at “The Second Vatican Ecumenical Council: A Pastoral Council – Historical, Philosophical and Theological Analysis” and amongst other things said this:

    There is the need for a new Syllabus, this time directed not so much against the errors coming from outside of the Church, but against the errors circulated within the Church by supporters of the thesis of discontinuity and rupture, with its doctrinal, liturgical, and pastoral application.

    Such a Syllabus should consist of two parts: the part that points out the errors, and the positive part with proposals for clarification, completion, and doctrinal clarification.

    Praying for Bishop Schneider!

    Report from NLM here:


  51. jasoncpetty says:

    Funny that Dr Marshall tells people to go to four TLMs before they decide, comparing it to acquiring a taste for beer–I always tell people trying beer for the first time that they need to drink at least four in one sitting before they form an opinion. Lex bibendi, etc.

  52. cwalshb says:


    Don’t know if you’re looking in the com box again, but it sounds like you’re in NJ. If Trenton is at all closer to you than Mater, you might be interested in the 12:15 PM Sunday TLM at the Church of St. Anthony (latinmasstrenton.org). The priests who were Deacon and Subdeacon at the Pontifical Mass are the regular priests at that parish. You can meet some traddies in the area if you go to the lunch afterwards–if you are around, come introduce yourself!

  53. OrthodoxChick says:

    St. Winefride,

    Awesome link! Thanks so much for sharing it!

  54. dominic1955 says:

    As to the TLM vs. the NO-it is NOT merely about aesthetics, I repeat vehemently, it is NOT aesthetical to anyone who knows their liturgical and sacramental history and theology!

    Besides my reading on the subject (which was overwhelmingly the primary reason), what got me away from the NO was precisely seeing it done all Tradded up. Benz hood ornament on a Trabant. In this situation you really and glaringly see what it lacks, especially if you are familiar with the TLM and also the Eastern DL’s. The architects of the new rite made it specifically ecumenical and progressive, they tailored it to the various “new” theologies of the Eucharist, the Church, etc. that were in vogue during the time immediately preceeding the Council. The new rite is fundamentally flawed and its clear to anyone who opens their eyes.

    The ring analogy is a good one. The NO is basically a gold (the few good bits that the litniks didn’t take out or managed not to butcher w/ pablum if new) plated pot metal ring with a dated faddish setting engulfing a beautiful diamond (the valid Consecration).

  55. claiborneinmemphis says:


    Although my screen name says otherwise, I am no longer currently living in the Bluff City, but I am curious where the TLM is being celebrated now. I haven’t been to a TLM in Memphis since Fr. Morgera was in Collierville and Fr. Bravata was a new priest at Blessed Sacrament right off of Sam Cooper. Has it spread and grown in popularity?

  56. AspiringMysticMonk says:

    My first experience with Mass in the EF was early last summer some of my friends invited me to come with them. Turns out one of the two parishes in town, the one I don’t normally attend, has EF Mass the third Sunday of every month. I went and was completely confused, but I was also fascinated and wanted more. I continued to go every month and after only three total, I asked the priest if he could teach me to serve at EF Mass. It turned out one of the servers couldn’t do it anymore and they needed a new server. I have since been growing further in love of the EF. This has greatly helped my discernment, and as you could probably guess by my username, I am aspiring to join the Carmelite monks of Wyoming.

  57. Incensum says:


    As a fellow resident in the Archdiocese of Milwaukee, I wholeheartedly implore you to write our +Archbishop. From my contact with him, he is under the mistaken impression that needs are being met for the Extraordinary Form in his dominion.

    I live in Washington County (not far from Dodge) and the only place in the Diocese with the EF is St. Stanislaus down on the south side of Milwaukee (~1.5 hr drive each way for me). Sadly, the nearby OF masses in this area are less than ideal – the last of which we attended brought my girlfriend to tears. The real tragedy is that one local church could accommodate the EF architecturally, but I just don’t see there being any openness to its celebration there. A telephone call in a moment of need for some sanctuary brought a very confused response from a secretary about when the church was open for private prayer before the Blessed Sacrament. Sadly, I think this alone speaks for itself.

    In light of all this, the Canons do a wonderful job down at St. Stanislaus, and I sorely wish that my health would allow me to make it there more often. I would welcome their presence north of the city more often – they have a wonderful pilgrimage to Holy Hill every year around Memorial Day. Nothing like a Solemn High Mass in the Basilica to warm the soul.

    To any others in our Archdiocese, please write our +Archbishop! I would be more than happy to chair a society for the EF in this area – I’ve served in the past and I certainly would volunteer my efforts to help bring it to others, Deo Volente!

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