ARGENTINA: Lesbians to receive confirmation and have “their” child baptized in cathedral

You perhaps have heard that a bishop in Argentina, has approved the baptism of a child held in custody by two lesbians. HERE

Vatican Insider has an explanation by a “collaborator” of then-Archbp. Bergoglio in Buenos Aires.  HERE

Pope Francis, and even Pope Benedict during his pontificate, spoke about a measure of flexibility in baptizing the children of those who show little evidence of practicing the faith.  I can just about go to that place, for I can see what they are driving at.  At the same time, I am obliged to obey the Church’s law.

Can. 868 §1. For an infant to be baptized licitly:

1. the parents or at least one of them or the person who legitimately takes their place must consent;

2. there must be a founded hope that the infant will be brought up in the Catholic religion; if such hope is altogether lacking, the baptism is to be delayed according to the prescripts of particular law after the parents have been advised about the reason.

Note, “altogether”.  That leaves a lot of wiggle room!

But wait!  There’s more!

There isn’t just a baptism involved.

Apparently the lesbians will also be confirmed at the same time!   This is all to be in the cathedral and Argentinian President Kirchner will be the sponsor.


Karina y Soledad tuvieron que pedir la autorización del Arzobispado. “Tuve una audiencia con el monseñor Carlos Ñáñez [now Archbp. of Córdoba] para que diera la orden y me confirmó que en la Catedral no habrá ningún problema”, explicó. El párroco Carlos Varas presidirá la ceremonia.

Las dos mujeres tomarán la confirmación el mismo día y a las 10.30 será el bautismo de Umma Azul, que tendrá un padrino amigo de la familia y dos madrinas, la presidenta y una amiga. “Queremos que tenga una madrina en Córdoba también. No creo que Cristina venga para los cumpleaños”, dijo Karina entre risas.

“Pedimos que la presidenta fuera madrina como una forma de agradecerle. Fue gracias a ella que nosotras nos pudimos casar y hoy podemos tener una bebé con los mismos derechos que el resto de los niños”, agregó emocionada.

La Catedral celebra los bautismos los días domingos, pero el de Umma Azul será un sábado. “Va a ser solamente el bautismo de la nena, por si viene la presidenta”, explicó Karina. “¡Si viene ella nos morimos!”, reconoció.


God help us.

In the meantime, I wonder what the lesbians’ confirmation names will be!


I received this from a friend in Rome, which I now share with more editing and added emphases:

The weasels at Vatican Insider, which still does not have an English version of the piece, have modified the otherwise gleeful article on the lesbian baptism/confirmation. Lo and behold the Archdiocese is backtracking and there will be no confirmation. I still have a problem with the baptism itself for doctrinal reasons and the for spectacle it will be turned into but let’s leave that aside now.

The spokesgal for the Archdiocese accused the women of lying about the confirmation. Yah, OK, maybe. If I were one of those oversuspicious old Card. Ottaviani types who know liberals like the back of my hands, I would intimate that they tried to get away with something that got out of hand, possibly because the two lesbians got carried away with bragging on camera about this and inviting the president of Argentina to be the sponsor. I don’t know. This is still a BAD thing. But technology might have helped the good guys contain the damage once again.

Next Saturday I will join a demonstration against a law they’re trying to pass criminalizing the verbal expression of dissent from unnatural”marriage” and “rights” in general and mandating gender ideology indoctrination at every level of education. It’s somewhat comforting to know that a successor of the Apostles will not be confirming lesbians as lay people take the defense of reason to the street. So far we have had more Muslims, Protestants, liberals and even people suffering from homosexual tendencies joining us than we have had bishops and priests.


About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

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  1. LarryW2LJ says:

    I could really use some Advil right about now.

  2. Woody79 says:

    It appears to me that in the spirit of mercy and “who am I to judge,” that canon law does not apply to any situation within the Church. After all, I think laws were made to restrict our freedom to be who God wants us to be. As long as I have the good intention to do what God wants me to do according to my interpretation of who God is, then through his mercy I shall be with him in heaven when my time comes to an end on earth. As long as these ladies feel that they are seeking the truth of God in their own way and that they agree to bring up their child in such a way that they help this child find God, then how can the Church not allow them into the sacraments that God established through his Church here on earth. I hope I have made myself clear on this matter. At least I think I have. And that’s all that matters anyway.

  3. Andrew says:

    … el monseñor Carlos Ñáñez [now Archbp. of Córdoba]

    On the opther hand, it was reported at the Catholic News Service that:

    “Buenos Aires, Argentina, Jul 14, 2010: a Catholic news source in Argentina, reported this week that Archbishop Carlos Jose Nanez of Cordoba has begun canonical proceedings against an Argentinean priest for refusing to retract the statements he publicly made supporting same-sex “marriage.”

  4. acricketchirps says:

    And a 2000 year old church disappears in a puff of logic in the time it takes Woody to click the Post button.

  5. franruizg says:

    It was during 2012 here in Buenos Aires that a guy dressed like a woman that frequently appears on TV and his “husband” wanted to have his children (two sons) baptized. The now peronist Pope ordered the priest in charge of a very old and well known parish to baptize the children. Think about the media, the opposition, the comments, etc.
    After all this happened, Archibishop Bergoglio said a couple of days after the baptism took place, with his usual ambiguous style, that something like “priests should always be ready to baptize people” and many other things DIRECTLY RELATED with the case.

    Bergoglio was leaving March 19th, 2013 for retirement.

  6. excalibur says:

    I could really use some Advil right about now.

    Scotch, bourbon, gin…..

    Read about this last week on another blog. Doesn’t sound any better on Father Z’s blog than it sounded there. Read something about pictures in the home where the child will be raised, didn’t bother to click through as one can only imagine.

  7. Sonshine135 says:

    April fools again Father……..right? Sadly, I think not.

  8. janicethemenace59 says:

    Is it still April Fools Day? This reads like one of those jokes. SIGH….

  9. Kathleen10 says:

    No less than the Argentinian president as a sponsor too….not bad. What are the odds that he is one of the ladies uncle? No, not likely. This is a political event, for a political cause, and it’s intent is a political point. Point made! There are people within the church actively promoting homosexuality as good and natural. We get it. That’s the takeaway message, and millions will receive it happily. And one wonders why parents in America at a Catholic school are crying and offended by a nun’s comments? Easy peasy. The church is allowing homosexuality to make great inroads as viable and equal to heterosexuality. The church is doing nothing much to stop that perception, or speak to it. In the face of a roaring lion, one can barely hear the mouse squeak.
    The baptism of the baby is complicated. When homosexuals included children in their plans, they knew what they were doing, and it’s effective.

  10. lsclerkin says:

    Confirming them in a state of public unrepentant deviant acts and mortal sin.
    God help them and the clergy doing it.
    If they die in that state, the evidence against them will be of their own making. Oh. My.
    Spiritual suicide for the entire world to see.

  11. jhayes says:

    The diocese says that the mothers will not be confirmed:

    Inizialmente la stampa argentina aveva annunciato che anche le donne avrebbero ricevuto il sacramento della cresima, ma si è trattato di un errore. “No c’è stato né ci sarà il sacramento della cresima delle madri, dato che l’arcivescovo di Cordoba non lo ha autorizzato. Potrebbero esserci dubbi su questo, poiché la coppia ha fatto delle dichiarazioni che non corrispondono alla realtà”, ha detto a Vatican Insider Rosana Triunfetti, responsabile del Servizio di Comunicazione Pastorale dell’Arcidiocesi di Cordoba


    [True?1? ]

  12. Massachusetts Catholic says:

    What big city in America doesn’t have at least one parish that would do something like this?

  13. chinjq says:

    In regards to the confirmation names, I’m betting on Nestoria and Aria. If that doesn’t float, perhaps Guineforta and Joan (the Papess, of course).

  14. mamajen says:

    The Vatican Insider article says this (according to poor Google translation):

    Initially, the Argentine press had announced that women would have received the sacrament of confirmation, but it was a mistake. “No, there has been nor will there be the Sacrament of Confirmation of mothers, given that the Archbishop of Cordoba had not authorized it. Could be no doubt about this, as the pair has made statements that do not correspond to reality,” said Vatican Insider Rosana Triunfetti, Head of Communication Service Ministry of the Archdiocese of Cordoba.

  15. Suburbanbanshee says:

    1 – President Kirchner is a really nasty piece of work. Nice try at enraging the Pope, too.

    2 – Anybody who’d ask a stranger to be godmother to make political points or to be fangirls? Doesn’t love their own kid or doesn’t understand the non-secular purposes.

    3 – Obviously not approaching Confirmation with the right attitude, but then, they might not have that attitude if they’d been Confirmed as kids.

  16. Eugene says:

    We have a Pope that has been very clear on the need for mercy to be experienced through the sacrament and we have a bishop in the Pope’s native land allowing this travesty to happen. I am simply beyond confused, upset, dismayed, disappointed, disturbed and disturbed. Come Lord Jesus, soon please.

  17. JustaSinner says:

    St. Gummarus and St. Andrew come to mind for their confirmation names!

  18. Imrahil says:

    Baptism fine, Confirmation of the guardinas not so. (Nor Communion of them if it happens within Mass.)

  19. incredulous says:

    Who am I to judge?

  20. liquidpaw says:

    Certainly no shocker, as it has been clear for some time now of the disastrous state of that diocese. Unfortunately, we now have the disastrous leadership style of that diocese present in Rome. Meanwhile, Catholic Tradition continues to be maligned, while our “Muslim brothers” listen to the exhortations of our prelates to “keep their faith” and happily slaughter our Catholic brothers and sisters.

  21. moon1234 says:

    I fear the smoke of satan……..
    Pope Paul VI

    It is very sad that many traditional Catholics have more in common with Muslims when it comes to marriage than they do with many of the leaders of the Catholic Church. To baptize a child when such a child will be taught anti-Catholic morals is sacrilegious isn’t it? To take a sacrament and make a mockery of it.

    Vladimir Putin:
    says Russia needs to “cleanse” itself of homosexuality if it wants to increase its birth rate.

    Barack Obama:
    Yesterday, during an interview with ABC News, President Obama said, “I think same-sex couples should be able to get married.”

    Pope Francis:
    “…..Who am I to Judge…..”

    Is it any wonder that people are swinging towards Putin as a defender of morals? I find it strikingly odd that the president of Russia, a former KGB officer, sounds like an orthodox defender of morals.

    The world has been turned on it’s head.

  22. Cantor says:

    What sort of Church would say that we will leave the child with the stain of original sin and without the help of the Holy Spirit because of something the child’s parents have done? We lack a “founded hope”? What about our hope in Christ? This kid is more likely in need of the powers of grace than all the kids of the “good Catholics” combined.

    As for Confirmation, that’s a different story. The two women here seem to be doing anything but confirming their membership in Christ’s Church. Perhaps someday their baptized child will be their guide to salvation.

  23. Magash says:

    The problem Cantor is twofold. One is the scandal that it brings to the Church. Scandal in the sense that souls will be lost because of those who will use an incident like this to proclaim homosexual behavior morally neutral or even a moral good. Second while it seems that baptism for someone stained with original sin is always a good, remember that in the long run salvation requires cooperation once the child is of the age of reason. By that time the polluted environment that it is likely to be raised in will have probably malformed its conscious beyond easy repair.
    There is a reason that the Church its laws require that at least one parent be willing to raise the baptized infant in the Catholic faith, and the law means in the sense of being faithful to the magisterial teachings of the Church, not a culture Catholic.

  24. Johnno says:

    You guys know that Simpsons episode where everyone adopts the phrase “I didn’t feel like it” to shirk responsibilities and duties?

    They should make one like that, except with the “Who am I to judge?” phrase…

  25. excalibur says:

    Who am I to judge?

    Unfair. Pope Francis was simply saying if people are seeking Christ, which means they are trying to live a Christian life (Church Doctrine), thus not engaging in homosexual acts. It is not his fault that wicked people misinterpreted what be said and ran with it.

  26. Supertradmum says:

    The child will be taught things contrary to Catholic teaching and be confused, merely by the lifestyles of the two lesbians. This is child abuse in my mind, to have a child raised by ssparents. So, why give in to an abusive situation?

    Let me re-phrase the problem. Should a priest baptize a child whose parents are satanists, or abortionists, or crack addicts who are unrepentant?

    Baptism is not magic. It is a sacrament given in the context of faithfulness and through and in the faithfulness of the parents.


  27. And this just makes it harder again for those heroic souls out there – the same-sex-attracted Catholics, including men and women couples who are now cohabiting chastely because they’ve put God first in their lives, but who have to accept that because of their mutual financial situation or because of children, they can’t live separately.

    If it was a couple like this, then it would be a huge grace. But I think inviting the President to be your baby’s godfather is a bit of a giveaway that this is NOT one of those chaste, God-fearing couples.

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