What are we Catholic Americans to do?

fishwrapYou might trot over to Fishwrap (aka National Schismatic Reporter) and read the epitome of a spittle-flecked nutty.

Michael Sean Winters (aka Wile E. Coyote of contemporary liberal Catholicism) is unhinged on this first full day on which we called Donald Trump “President-Elect” and Hillary Clinton “Loser”.

Look.  I might have preferred the election of a different candidate, but when it came down to the actual choices, … well… I’ve spoken my piece about the criminal Party of Death candidate.

Here is a sample from the Fishwrap Fainting Couch.  Make popcorn and watch the meltdown.  Mind you, my motive here is more than mere delectatio morosa:

Shock. It is the emotional reaction that has accompanied Donald Trump’s campaign from its start and it reached its climax last night. The country has administered a severe disaster to itself. The trappings of democracy cannot obscure the moral enormity, nor ameliorate the sense of disgust: This is a dreadful thing that has happened to America, but it did not happen the way an earthquake happens or a tornado happens. This self-inflicted wound was chosen.

It is futile to try and predict what a Trump presidency will look like. The thought of Attorney General Rudy Giuliani sends a shudder down one’s spine. I am not a psychologist but I don’t need to be: Mr. Trump has advertised his preference for unpredictability. The man who claimed he knew “more than the generals” about ISIS now looks at the landscape of American politics and media and has received the self-assurance that he knew more than all of them, he knew he would win. This will not diminish his sense of self-importance nor induce a sense of restraint. He will not now suddenly learn the human necessity of declining to cross the bounds of decency.

If the country had elected Jeb Bush tonight, or Paul Ryan, I would be worried about certain public policies I think are important. In both cases I would also rejoice about the improved prospects of other policies. This is different. Part of the difference comes from the knowledge that a foreign power, no, a foreign adversary, played a conspicuous role in this election. This fact did not receive the attention it deserved, a worrying sign that we have already begun to become accustomed to the shock.

The president-elect delivered a conciliatory and even gracious speech last night. Do not be fooled. He rode to victory by stoking many of the worst sentiments in human nature and he awakened a beast. The beast will continue to want to be fed and when his advisors tell him not to continue agitating those base sentiments, he will scorn them. It is no secret that he already despises the Republican establishment as much or more than he despised Hillary Clinton.


For my part, I await comments on the election from ACTON INSTITUTE.

Meanwhile, look at Hell’s Bible (aka New York Times) on the exit polls.

I wonder how this broke down between Catholics and catholics.


Let’s go back to Fishwrap, where there is an editorial.

They ask an important question.

We’ve come through the most bitter, toxic and demoralizing presidential campaign in modern history. Though the votes have been cast and a winner declared, the republic has been seriously wounded, divisions have deepened and widened, large swaths of the country have drunk deeply of the toxic brew of intolerance and hate, or dismissiveness and denigration.

[NB]What are we Catholic Americans to do?

The divisive issues, tensions and attitudes that were magnified on the campaign trail will not dissipate soon. The key to Donald Trump’s victory was his promise to bring change to Washington, to blow up the status quo. Nothing in his campaign leads us to believe that he can bring disparate parties together. Trump won the campaign, but unknown is how he can govern. He does not even have the full support of the Republican congressional leadership. Republicans, now in control of the White House and both houses of Congress, will have to act much more responsibly than they have in recent years when their sole agenda was to oppose President Barack Obama. What the next four years will bring cannot be predicted.

Our one hope is the belief that our Constitution and the American people are strong enough to weather this storm. This country has at critical times in its history rallied together, overlooked differences and pulled through crises as bad and even worse than what we face now. And to be clear, the crisis we face is not the election of Trump, per se, but a broken political system and a divided nation.

We would like to say that as Catholics — a church with nearly equal numbers of Democrats and Republicans but many common agendas because of our social justice tradition — could play an important role bringing healing to society, but regrettably, Catholics seem as divided as society in general.



The Fishwrap is one of the reasons for the division among Catholics!   They peddle constant dissent and confusion.  They foment disaffection and disunity.

What are Catholic Americans to do?

First, let’s not whine.

I suggest that we must renew our Catholic identity through a constant review of the content of our Faith from sure sources, through a revitalization of our sacred liturgical worship in harmony with our tradition, through deeper personal conversion, examination of conscience and use of the Sacrament of Penance, through unwavering dedication to our vocations.

What are we to do?

Let us be Catholic, not catholic.

Let us be faithful and courageous in the public square and in our private spheres.

Come, Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of Thy faithful and rekindle in them the fire of Thy love.
V. Send forth Thy Spirit and they shall be created.
R. And Thou shalt renew the face of the earth.
Let us pray.O God, Who didst instruct the hearts of the faithful by the light of the Holy Spirit, grant us in the same Spirit to be truly wise, and ever to rejoice in His consolation. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
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  1. Dan says:

    For me the last poll on that list is the most telling. The more people put God at the center of their life and set themselves aside, the more likely they were to vote against Clinton.

    I think the media is downplaying the roll that the Christian and specifically Catholic vote played in this election. Many good priests (including our own parish priest) courageously stood up to tell the souls entrusted to them the dangerous of voting contrary to their Catholic faith. That played a HUGE roll, i believe, in turning people who may have otherwise loved to vote for her to voting for Trump or another third party.

  2. Thomistica says:

    Despite a seriously flawed individual for President, we now thankfully have four years to work legally and especially within the culture to overturn pro-abortion laws and reverse the erosion of religious liberties. Plus work to clean up house within our Church and strengthen it against future assaults on these fronts.

    *But have no illusions, this is just a grace period.* We can’t squander it. For they’ll be back in full force in a short while.

  3. (X)MCCLXIII says:

    I’m an English Catholic, not American, but sympathetic to America and interested in American politics. I’d like to take the opportunity to congratulate and thank the American people for their choice yesterday. We put not our trust in princes, of course, but I agree with Mrs (X)MCCLXIII’s first thought “it’s good news for babies” and add my own “it’s good news for peace”. I thought, at first, that a Trump presidency was vital by default; having followed the campaign a little over the last few weeks I have developed a more positive impression than that. I like almost all the policies I have heard from him, and I understand that his Vice-President Elect is a committed pro-lifer. I hope they can deliver good governance for the USA and a positive long-term legacy.

  4. Jenson71 says:

    We are indeed at a turning point.

    For nearly a decade, the Republican Party’s primary focus was to tear apart and blockade. At the expense of our country, they did a fairly good job while bending, but never breaking, the legitimacy of their own party. Block ‘socialized’ medicine; tear apart the legitimacy of the elected president; prevent the hearing of a nominated Supreme Court justice; shut down the government; tear apart the Affordable Care Act; tear apart Sec. of State Clinton’s record with fruitless investigations and hearings; enact legislation to curtail minority voting under the guise of preventing voter fraud.

    Now, we see a moment where Republicans and conservatives have immense opportunity to legislate and build up, not destroy, this country. Although Donald Trump lost the majority of the vote, his victory, and the message sent by his supporters, is undeniable. What is done with this immense power is completely uncertain.

    Are we going to have a country that discriminates against non-Christians; that abandons the poor and unprivileged while enriching the wealthy and privileged; that threatens the freedom of the press; that abandons its foreign allies; that closes its doors to immigrants needing refuge; that seeks vengeance on political opponents? All indications throughout Mr. Trump’s campaign indicate that is exactly what he and his supporters want. What is Catholic, with a capital C, about those asserted initiatives? And if it goes against Catholic ethics, don’t Catholic leaders have a role in actively speaking out against that?

  5. Benedict Joseph says:

    Charity requires someone do a diaper run for the denizens of the “Fishwrap.” I’m not up for it.

  6. gracie says:

    Rachel Zoll @rzollAP reports that Trump won white evangelicals by 91%, Catholics by 52%, Protestants overall by 60%, and weekly/monthly churchgoers by 50+ % per preliminary exit polls.


  7. Dad of Six says:

    Please continue to pray for the conversion of the Fishwrap crew, the strengthening of our episcopate / priests and the return to the faith of all lapsed Catholics.

  8. Volanges says:

    As a Canadian I don’t have a dog in this fight, at least not directly though it will likely have an impact on our stock markets which is what happens when the mouse sleeps next to the elephant. That said, I’m not sure that Catholics have won as much as we think we did. Trump was conveniently pro-life in this campaign but that has not always been his stance and I doubt he’ll do anything to reverse what is already in place. I hope I’m wrong.

  9. THREEHEARTS says:

    mike hurcum writes
    I do not and cannot believe in coincidences. I see the hand of God in this. I understand that there are 4 supreme court judges up for choice during this presidency. I also see and made it known to the Trump Catholic Advice Committee the papal directive that all Catholic Diocese should have medical clinics. What a great chance to take over some of the funds of Planned Parenthood and stop the Bishops handing our charitable contributions over to the anti-creation monsters in the missions. I feel strongly as the Apostle John wrote Judas was the keeper of the Common purse and him a thief, priests should have very little to do with the spending of our donations. We already see what they do with much of our donations. The Laity should be involved with all the negotiations for health care. If I am wrong correct me but check the facts and ask to how many deliberate sinners or if any do we fund in our careless sinfulness?

  10. aliceinstpaul says:

    I prayed every intercessory prayer I could find multiple times. I prayed Hail Mary’s most of last night.

    God delivered us from HRC. He did not abandon us. It was a miracle.

    And now we give prayers of Thanksgiving for her defeat and for our chance to change hearts. We pray to change our hearts. We pray to change Catholic and Catholic hearts we pray to change DJT’s heart.

    We pray and we pray for the grace to act on those prayers.

    We must be the leaven. We must be the salt. We must shine His light on the truth. And we keep praying.

  11. boxerpaws63 says:

    Trump is a good man. The hard work begins in Jan .There is a lot on his plate.Pray for him.

  12. iamlucky13 says:

    Four quick thoughts:

    1.) My general feeling is an incredibly disgusted sense of deep relief.

    2.) A lot of accusations about intelligence and motives are being thrown around. None of them are charitable, open-minded, or demonstrate an interest in understanding all points of view, etc. I’ve actually started writing down things people I know are saying, because I’m seeing a side of quite a few people that’s never come out before.

    3.) It has been a source of bewilderment to me since the primaries that the Democrats rejected a candidate who they liked and who in all likelihood would have beaten Trump by a large margin in favor of the one with the closest ties to big businesses and foreign interests, and blinded themselves to the controversies that have always followed her. There are no signs that they intend to ever own this decision. It’s all pointing fingers, casting aspersions, and forecasting doom.

    4.) Trump has been affirmed in his worst qualities. We need to keep him in check. The less we do so, the worse the 2020 election is going to go.

  13. Dad of Six says:

    Jenson71- “Although Donald Trump lost the majority of the vote…”

    I don’t believe any candidate won a majority of the vote; Secretary Clinton may win a plurality of the vote, as her husband did twice.

  14. benedetta says:

    I understand that everyone is going to have a deeply held opinion, and I respect that. I like that we have differences of opinion. My opinion is that my day to day existence has not been impacted either way, particularly not for the better, by whomever holds the office of American President for a very long time, and, I cannot really see this situation changing in the future given the things the American media and the talking heads seemed most preoccupied with. I think there are others who feel as alienated from their country, reasonable, hard working, decent people who are not interested in turning their backs to those in need or being so many things as the “ew” Pedestal would like to paint believers into for short term political gains.

    For those who do feel that there are dramatic impacts, I feel for you, and your hopes and concerns are in my prayers. I stopped believing that a president, or government in general, had much import in the great meaning of life, a long time ago. There is no great vacuum in my life where political preoccupation and debate, and service once filled — without it, my life has been full, very full even, and in many ways much better, even while strange things happen, continuously, even today, even now, one knows not why.

    I simply no longer believe in government, American government, politics, ideology, of most any sort, as our main salvation and determinant. Perhaps this experience was forced upon me via means that are unjust, undesired, torturous. And yet that fact of realization to me is not loss but only gain, and it is freedom. I did vote, but now only with that awareness in mind, and whether it be that one or this one, I am, and have been, and will remain, in my heart, in peace. I heard that the losing candidate quoted from scripture today. Where I once read the NY Times daily, I now instead read scripture, and, that has made all the difference.

  15. WVC says:


    You may be more involved than you thought up there in the Great White North. According to what folks have said, you may be getting an up tick in your immigration numbers.

  16. misternaser says:

    There is still much work to be done. The Culture of Death still has a strong grip on us, and we can’t rest just because the next president and Congress probably won’t persecute us. Sixty-five percent of my state of Colorado just voted to allow assisted suicide, which means lots of Catholics supported it, against strong opposition from our bishops. We have to be authentically Catholic, deeply in love with and converted by Christ, and full of evangelical zeal for the Gospel.

  17. Someone please be the Garrigue says:

    Apparently the Canadian immigration department’s website couldn’t handle the load. I wonder if the proverbially liberal Canadian government will complain about a “Denial Of Service” having been caused by liberals prospectives who complain about “denial of services”.

  18. DD says:

    Yes, I truly believe he is a good man and I will continue to pray for him.

  19. Chiara says:

    Donald Trump is a less than ideal candidate for the presidency, to my mind. But when faced with the alternative, there was nothing to do but to vote against Mrs. C.

    Mrs. Clinton has never made a secret of her agenda to promote the anti-life cause. This alone should have raised a red flag to any faithful Catholic.

    But when her closest, most trusted advisors were caught plotting to infiltrate and destroy the Catholic Church, I had no hesitation in voting Republican.

    These people, some of whom called themselves catholic, planned an upheaval of the Church and a “Catholic Spring” in order to mold Church teaching to their own flawed, unethical agenda.

    And Mrs. Clinton NEVER apologized or distanced herself from this. Which indicates her agreement and approval.

    In my country, politicians do not dictate to religious groups how they should conduct their services nor what their doctrine should espouse. That the Clinton machine would do such a thing, apparently with the approval of their figurehead, echoes what the Nazis hoped to accomplish during the 30s and 40s against the Jews, Catholics, and many other people of Faith.

    Mr. T is flawed, but he is a much better solution than the alternative.

    God bless you, Father, and all your readers.

  20. Traductora says:

    In my opinion, Trump, like his opponent, is a mental and moral midget and the thing that’s really appalling is how two such people got to be the candidates for the highest office in the land. But you really do get the government you deserve, and we as a people have abandoned morality (that is, as it has always been understood, based upon the Ten Commandments with Our Lord’s additional words to warm and expand it). So it’s no surprise that we get these two people: one an amoral, sensationalist self-seeker, the other an amoral, viciously ambitious, anti-American member of a family that is essentially a crime cartel. And two political parties that are incapable of either controlling or improving them or, for that matter, kicking them out and finding better people.

    I don’t think a lot of Dems liked Hillary any more than a lot of the GOP liked Trump. I do hope, however, that the Pope is feeling a little chagrined that his efforts to support Hillary failed and the majority of Catholics actually did not vote for her. This is the very same Pope who had a grinning, photo-op hug with Emma Bonino, the first and most important proponent of legalized abortion in Italy, on the same day as the US elections.

    That said, I voted for Trump, because there really wasn’t any other choice, and we can always hope that his advisors will keep him sane and under control for an agenda worked out by people such as Newt Gingrich (a very smart and devout man). But even if they don’t, he’s better than the horrible iron-fisted left that Hillary planned to put into place.

    In short, we have serious problems in this country, but the source really isn’t politics. That’s a symptom, not the disease. The disease is that we have abandoned morality, abandoned both knowledge and wisdom, and abandoned God.

  21. AnnTherese says:

    I might suggest America hit rock bottom yesterday. But I think it can and will get worse. One person’s reflection today offered the insight that Trump brought into the light our nation’s greatest sins; and it is in the light that healing can happen.

    Catholics need to do what we do best: pray, sacrifice, serve others, and speak truth to power when advocating for the “least among us.”

    While I’m not certain if God answers prayers to bring one person or the other into office, I know that God hears the cries of our spirits and the longings of our hearts– and holds us in our suffering, healing, hope, and joy.

    Most of all, we are called to love. Like Jesus.

  22. Kathleen10 says:

    Jensen, I certainly don’t wish to be rude, but after this long and embittered election, we no longer have to debate the Democrat talking points you just brought up. They are not relevant any longer. Donald J. Trump won fair and square, and we don’t have to spend one more minute trying to convince people like yourself what he’s about. Hal-leh-lu-jah. You’re just going to have to accept it, much as we had to when Barack Hussein Obama, most radical pro-abort Senator ever, was put into our White House, by Catholics, twice. Time for liberals to man up, as we had to.
    We are giving Our Lord Jesus Christ all the praise and glory for this election, and this is important for all of us. This entire situation sounds like a fairy tale. If Hollywood wrote it, we’d not believe it. It’s too unlikely, and too far fetched. God’s hand IS all over it, because as I said earlier, He writes straight with crooked lines. Even the infamous and slimy Anthony Weiner played a part, it was his laptop that was searched and whaddya know, more emails. God bless Donald J. Trump and his family, and God bless the United States of America!

  23. Kathleen10 says:

    I’m willing to go out on a limb here. Donald Trump is THE exact man we need for this period in time. Out of a field of how many, 19 candidates for the Republican nominee, HE was the only one who kept moving along the line, catching the attention of the American people, making it clear he could NOT be bought, and importantly, standing up to the withering onslaught from the entire media, Democrat Party, his own Republican party, the culture, and Hollywood. He is singularly and uniquely capable of leadership, someone that had to be an outsider. He cannot be bought, and that is going to upset the status quo in DC and America, which is in danger of being taken over outright by evil men like George Soros. You people that are criticizing Donald Trump, seem to feel a real sense of moral superiority to the man. I suggest you take a look again at Hillary’s platform and record, then seriously ask yourself if he is not a far, far better president-elect based on moral principles, than she is. I am not put off by ten year old recordings. Do we believe people can CHANGE? Or are we so morally elevated and jaded that not only does he fail to meet our superior expectations but we assume he will not. The man seems to have been genuinely touched by the American people he has met in every state. He seems to care deeply about doing the right thing for America and helping our nation. The election is over. It is time to get down from our high horses and get behind our next president.

  24. Supertradmum says:

    There is one struggling Catholic pro-life party. American Catholics need to think about the third party option. Why not? I have been sick of these two parties for years as not representing my Catholic views. We need to create a new party….based on natural law, the revealed law, and Catholic principles. We need to break with this crippling two party system. I have been an “independent” for years. Can Catholics not get together to deal with the creation of a truly pro-life, conception to natural death, party, holding economic ideals which are not socialist, communist, or gross capitalist?

  25. Fr. Vincent Fitzpatrick says:


    Just because you CAN vomit a string of tendentiously-worded, inaccurate smears of Trump straight off Hillary’s teleprompter, doesn’t mean you SHOULD.

  26. boxerpaws63 says:

    “Trump has been affirmed in his worst qualities. We need to keep him in check.” where was this mind set when Obama was Pres for 8 yrs?
    mental and moral midget? Seriously? I know this-he won’t be off playing golf every other day.

  27. Y2Y says:

    “I might suggest America hit rock bottom yesterday.”

    You might so suggest, or you might actually think objectively and reach a far different conclusion.

    Feelings are no substitute for rational analysis. If the capacity for such analysis lies beyond your faculties, you could at least spare the rest of us from your pointless sentimentalism.

  28. rcg says:

    It was not the ghost o Millard Filmore, but Harambe of Cincinnati Zoo infamy got 10,000 votes. My wife is furious that people “wasted” their vote. I was surprised, too.

    I had no idea we had so many Franciscans in Ohio.

  29. kiwiinamerica says:

    This all reminds me of the sneers, scorn and hand-wringing which greeted Ronald Reagan’s election. I was living in another country at the time and we were fed the canned caricature of Reagan as a failed B-list movie star bozo who couldn’t tie his own shoes, still less lead a superpower. “Oh my!” sighed the elites and the cogniscenti, “This twit is in charge of a nuclear arsenal. He’s going to start World War III!”

    How wrong they were and how little that rabble learned from that experience as Reagan changed the world for the better. As for the lousy Anti-Catholic Distorter, I have just one question. What’s happened to “mercy” and “accompaniment”, the buzz words of the moment? No “mercy” for Trump? Is he bound in his sins forever? So much for the Francis thing, eh?

    Trump isn’t a saint or even a Boy Scout but I will be praying that like King David with all his flaws, he becomes a great leader, more humble and closer to God as he realizes the profound task which has been laid on his shoulders. He can, with God’s help, become the man we need right now.

  30. The Egyptian says:

    I so tire of the “but he’s not perfect” crowd. you know the first stone thing. Just remember Moses couldn’t enter the promised land, king David was a philanderer, Peter denied and Thomas doubted, Judas betrayed and Paul persecuted till struck blind. St Augustine was a little monster and had a concubine and a child, but became a saint and doctor of the church. Am I putting Trump on the same level, NO, however God didn’t chose the perfect or the nice when the going got tough. The only perfect one died on a cross and asks us to have faith and pray. Well right now the going is not nice and it will be tough, so pray and put your shoulder to the wheel, write and call or email you congress critter constantly, put them on notice and PUSH, DARN IT

    PS pray for a GOOD attorney general to dig out the corruption on both sides of the isle, the swamp is deep and the gators are going to bite

    ” it is hard to remember that the original objective was to drain the swamp when you are up to your ass in alligators”

  31. Jenson71 says:

    Be courageous in the public square, Father. Speak truth to power.

  32. Jenson71 says: Are we going to have a country that discriminates against non-Christians; that abandons the poor and unprivileged while enriching the wealthy and privileged; that threatens the freedom of the press; that abandons its foreign allies; that closes its doors to immigrants needing refuge; that seeks vengeance on political opponents? All indications throughout Mr. Trump’s campaign indicate that is exactly what he and his supporters want.

    Actually, except for item number one, that is, point for point, what we have had for the last eight years under Obama, and what the country resoundingly rejected last night.

  33. Jenson71 says:

    Let’s go down the items, point for point, Anita Moore.

    Mr. Trump has proposed to prohibit persons from entering our country based on their being Muslim. [I think that, in truth, it also has a regional and a data component.] Mr. Trump proposes an economic plan that significantly benefits the wealthy through tax cuts [That’s nothing but spin.] and repeal the Affordable Care Act, which enrolled millions into health insurance plans. [And which has done a great deal more.] Additionally, Mr. Trump’s policy appears to have no off-setting spending cuts to balance the dramatic drop in revenue and is projected to increase the federal debt by trillions. [Who else lately increased the debt?] Income inequality only seems to have increased under the Obama Administration — and there is nothing that Mr. Trump proposes that intends to do anything to remedy such a condition; or anything to suggest he thinks it’s a problem. [In that case he won’t do worse than Obama. Look, I’m not a yhuge fan of the Donald, but he is not Hillary.] Does he still think American wages are too high, or did that view shift when politically necessary?

    Mr. Trump has advocated for legislation intended to increase defamation litigation against media outlets. Where is your equivalence for President Obama? Mr. Trump has called for conditional measure requirements before providing support to NATO allies; and starting trade wars with other allies; if you think the Obama Administration’s handling of our alliance with Israel was strained, compare it to Mr. Trump’s initial handling of the alliance the US has with our southern border ally. [And yet the PM of Israel seems pleased with the election.]

    Mr. Trump seeks to massively expand a deportation force to remove illegal immigrants and believes the United States should not accept refugees from Syria. The current administration has accepted refugees from Syria. [Indeed it has, without, apparently, much vetting.] Mr. Trump vowed to order a special prosecutor investigate Hillary Clinton. What political opponent did Barack Obama order to be investigated? [Was there a period in which the IRS targeted certain groups?]

    This isn’t slapdash rhetoric, Anita Moore. [No?] The country resoundingly rejected political correctness, the undefined establishment, and Hillary Clinton on Tuesday night. In doing so, it embraced the obliteration of decency and reservation; amateurism; and the vilest political candidate in modern U.S. history. It embraced a man who was championed by the Ku Klux Klan; [This is absurd. In the future, I’ll simply delete comments with this decidedly stupid claim.] who peddles in conspiracy theories; and who has no apparent interest in the minutiae of daily matters of governance. It instantly gratified itself with style over substance, short-term branding over long-term building.

    [I’ll take this as a “No” vote.]

  34. JimP says:

    After wading through MSW’s essay and a number of the comments, I feel as if I need to take a shower. I have on occasion posted comments at the Fishrap, but I could not bring myself to enter that morass.

    Donald Trump was very near the bottom of my choice for the Republican candidate, but when it was time to vote in the general election I could never bring myself to vote for Hillary Clinton.

  35. Absit invidia says:

    I have some advice for Winters: maybe for starters, as a Catholic you should stop supporting baby killers then things might start looking up for you.

  36. Pingback: Post-Election Day in America 2016 Thursday Edition | Big Pulpit

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  38. Kerry says:

    Kathleen10, in the “Eleven” ring, at 1000 meters, with open sights! (Eleven…? “It goes up to eleven”.)
    Fr. Vincent, yes, wildly tendentious.
    Someone many posts down included excerpts from the Democrat platform where we read the astonishing claim that access abortion is/was crucial to “women and men’s (!!!) health”. Dear Democrats, how many abortion are too many? How many are not enough? If they are crucial, why would it be a bad thing to abort them all? By the grace of God, we will now, hopefully, not have a judge somewhere with this fortune cookie belief sitting on the bench.

  39. WVC says:

    Can I speak out in favor of discriminating against non-Christians? I mean, why on God’s green earth would we NOT give preferential treatment to Christians? I routinely discriminate against non-family members in my daily interactions. I routinely discriminate against non-friends as well. I’m willing to bet a thousand dollars that everyone else does the same thing.

    It should be noted that discrimination is not the same as persecution. Nor does discrimination eliminate the need or opportunity for charity. It’s just preferring one group of things/people over another, and moderating one’s actions accordingly. We all do it. All the time. It’s part of how we’re made. Subsidiarity. It’s why God chose the Israelites as a people apart from the rest, and why even that chosen people was grouped into smaller tribes. Let’s all stop letting the liberals ruin perfectly good words with anti-rational sentimental connotations. They’ve already ruined the phrase “social justice.”

    Heaven grant us a country that DOES discriminate against non-citizens in favor of citizens. May Trump keep his promises about that wall (he’s no Nehemiah, but he’s all we’ve got).

  40. KateD says:

    Regarding Russian interference with the election:

    If Russia had released the Clinton/Podesta emails, so what? As Putin pointed out, America is the last country that should cry foul on this topic. It’s not who exposed the crime that’s to blame, it’s the criminal.

    Whomever it was, we owe them a great debt of gratitude!

    Julian Assange, who has shown heroic bravery in releasing the documents through his Wikileaks website has stated clearly that the leaks did not come from Russia.

    Here’s a link to the video of Julian Assange with John Pilger:


    What’s interesting to me is the issue of Hillary’s intentional uncorking of the refugee flood through Lybia into Europe discussed at 9:55 in the video. She did this with full knowledge that jihad would be swept into Europe through these actions. Assange concludes she intended to use this to show strength for her 2016 campaign. However when one considers her equal enthusiasm for flooding America by opening the southern border, it kinda makes one wonder if there isn’t another motive. With her defeat, whatever the agenda, it seems to have been averted.

    Most disconcerting in our present situation until the inaugauration is the idea that I’ve heard floated about the creation of an avalanche by the current administration in hopes that it could not be prevented by the incoming president. It would be good to get out ahead of that.

    Regarding the popular vote: If you take into account invalid votes cast by illegal immigrants and released convicts (Virginia), the deceased and machines that defaulted to Democrats after citizens selected Republicans, did Hillary win the popular vote in reality?

  41. Sonshine135 says:

    Never ever forget that these people cannot separate political ideology from faith- worse than that, they cannot inform their political ideology with their faith. Thus they are miserable always, because they are in internal conflict with their ideology and faith. As you can see, their ideology wins over their paper thin faith every single time.

  42. OldLady says:

    I am so weary of the fear mongering and hysterics from both sides but refuse to be swayed by it. We are a melting pot in the USA and in the Catholic Church. Melting implies blending into the larger culture harmoniously while still retaining heritage and individuality. Instead we have grown into special interest groups that supersede the basic needs of every citizen. Fear is being used against us by both sides ( right & left). Socialism is now socially acceptable? What a secular lesson for Catholics. We can not let our differences and fears tear us apart. There is One God and One Church. What holds the Church together is what is missing in our culture. What Catholics must do is be even more Catholic. No matter what happens in the Church or in the world. Flawed men built this country and flawed men were chosen by Christ to build His Church. It is not a sin to be flawed. Thank God and I mean that literally! We keep blaming each other while the Enemy sits and chuckles. Less blaming and more praying!

  43. Discriminating against non-Christians: actually, our government has enshrined into law discrimination against Christians, in the form of mandates that Christians pay for other people’s birth control, and fining Christians who don’t want to take part in ceremonies that celebrate things that violate Christian beliefs?

    Abandoning the poor and unprivileged while enriching the wealthy and privileged: how about pumping millions into Planned Parenthood, which makes money killing off the poorest and most unprivileged among us, namely, the unborn?

    Threatening the freedom of the press: how about getting the mass media to cooperate in turning itself into a gigantic propaganda echo chamber for the Democrats? Just because they agree to trade in their freedom, doesn’t make it any less insidious.

    Abandoning foreign allies: have we ever had a more anti-Israel administration than the outgoing administration?

    Closing doors to immigrants needing refuge: how many Christian refugees from the Middle East are we taking in?

    Seeking vengeance on political opponents: how about forcing a group of religious sisters to defend in court their right, guaranteed by the Free Exercise clause of the First Amendment, not to have to violate the doctrine of their Church by subsidizing contraceptives? Have we forgotten that leftists define peace as the absence of opposition?

  44. KateD says:


    Millions of Americans are out of work or underemployed. Those who are employed cannot afford Obamacare. Just the other day after Mass people were admitting that they couldn’t afford Obama care and had been going without. If you make below a certain amount of money, you are exempt from Obamacare and the no insurance tax. People don’t generally speak openly about this because it is a sin in our society to be poor.

    I am no fan of Trump. I am praying for God to deliver us further as fervently as before the election. However, I will admit he IS an Alpha executive and gets shtuff done. How he intends to bring more money in isn’t rocket science. If he decreases taxes, then business will come back and more companies paying smaller taxes causes increased revenues.

    Regarding immigrants: ISIS has formally declared war on Western civilization. Their imams have made clear that they are to use the long and short swords to conquer us. They are calling for murder and rape on American soil! Isn’t it just common sense to not let folks in from those areas for the time being, until we get it all straightened? If the next president works with other nations to support Israel and defeat ISIS, then war in that region will cease, as will the flow of refugees. Regarding our Southern border, we have a virtual slave labor force that is supplied by Latin America. No party has done anything to make it right since Reagan, because it keeps domestic product prices down. Oppressing the alien and enslaving him is a sin that cries to heaven. A just people cannot participate in this. I disagree with creating a wall. How will the jaguars get through? But I do believe in common sense approaches to solving the problem, because again we are having problems with the cartels and the gangs, mafia, etc flowing in with the good people just trying to provide for their families. Many of our ancestors had to stop in at Ellis Island and sign the guest book. Doesn’t that seem a reasonable request?

  45. Jenson71 says:

    Be courageous in the public square, Father.

    Speak truth to power.

  46. Venerator Sti Lot says:

    What might qualify one for being “the vilest political candidate in modern U.S. history” – the contestants seem so many: Mr. Obama with his dedication at state level to trying to make sure no abortion survivor survived for long; Messrs. Kennedy and Biden with their taste for ‘waitress sandwiches’; Mr. Clinton, who astonished the Party insiders who knew all too well about what he got up to, when he decided to run for President; Mr. Kennedy, with his ‘poolside manner’; Senator Robert (KKK) Byrd? – a bald list would easily be encyclopedic in length.

  47. Jenson71 says:

    Venerator Sti Lot, at your request for assistance, the following compilation might assist you with your survey: http://tinyurl.com/jrue5wk

    Also, I’d love to know what principle distinguishes the allowance of a commentator affiliating Senator Byrd with the KKK (to which he was undeniably a short-term member of; and later renounced and regretted) and the refusal to allow a different commentator to mention the fact that a KKK newspaper, the Crusader, and David Duke championed Donald Trump (which Trump disavowed).

  48. un-ionized says:

    KateD, I have been saying for months that we don’t need a wall, we need an Ellis Island. Deaf ears.

  49. Venerator Sti Lot says:


    I avoid anything beginning ‘tinyurl’: Fr Z indulging, perhaps you could parcel out anything you think worth linking more… transparently.

    Your breathtakingly hyperbolic phrase was ““the vilest political candidate in modern U.S. history”: it was my impression that Senator Byrd was an avid Klansman as candidate. If Wikipedia is reliable here, he “won a seat in the West Virginia House of Delegates in 1946, representing Raleigh County from 1947 to 1950.” Eric Pianin of the Washington Post (if he is reliable here: 19 June 2005) writes, “during the general election campaign [for the U.S. House in 1952] , Byrd’s GOP opponent uncovered a letter Byrd had handwritten to Green, the KKK Imperial Wizard, recommending a friend as a Kleagle and urging promotion of the Klan throughout the country. The letter was dated 1946 — long after the time Byrd claimed he had lost interest in the Klan. ‘The Klan is needed today as never before, and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia,’ Byrd wrote, according to newspaper accounts of that period.” And, that in a “Dec. 11, 1945, letter [“to one of the Senate’s most notorious segregationists, Theodore Bilbo (D-Miss.)”] — which would not become public for 42 more years with the publication of a book on blacks in the military during World War II by author Graham Smith — that he would never fight in the armed forces ‘with a Negro by my side.’ Byrd added that, ‘Rather I should die a thousand times, and see old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels.’ ”

    Can you really fail to see the difference between this and someone unassociated with Mr. Trump without his knowledge or consent having “championed” him – while, in the words of Mr. Pence, ““Donald Trump and I have denounced David Duke repeatedly”?

  50. Venerator Sti Lot says:

    An interesting comment on the problem of attracting supporters with whom you radically disagree on important matters – from an interview with Alan Dershowitz, emeritus Harvard Law prof: “I think the larger problem – and it’s a very complicated one today – is how you assess a person who himself might not have negative characteristics, but who has widespread appeal to people who do. And I think that problem exists on the right and the left. I think there are left-wing candidates who appeal to some of the worst bigots on the hard left. […] And I think the same thing is probably true of some very right-wing conservatives who appeal vertently or inadvertently to people whose values they probably themselves don’t agree with.”

  51. At the National Catholic Register, Msgr. Pope has a great article that answers well the question “What are we Catholic Americans to do?” The greatest gem may well be this (emphasis mine):

    “It may help that we will spend less time being hauled to court than we did with the last administration. But my fear is that we will relax, rather than get busier. If the Lord has granted us a reprieve from the worse-case scenario, it is not for our pleasure and so we can enjoy repose. It is so that we can get to work, doing what we should always be doing: being Catholic and announcing the gospel.”

    Read the whole article here.

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