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Fr. Z is officially a hybrid of Gandalf and Obi-Wan XD
Rev. John Zuhlsdorf, a scrappy blogger popular with the Catholic right.
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RC integralist who prays like an evangelical fundamentalist.
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[T]he even more mainline Catholic Fr. Z. blog.
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The Church is not a political party. It is not left or right. [Really?]
To be even more specific, on some issues, like abortion, the Church is on the right. On other issues, like nuclear weapons, the Church is on the left (at least left to us Americans). Ross Douthat’s book Bad Religion said that the Gospel has very tough parts for everyone on the political spectrum. Do you really think that Trump is merciful? Does he often offer the other cheek? Are people like myself bad to complain about this?
I don’t believe we should attack the Right or Left (with capital letters). We want all people to be active and participating Catholics. [So, you lean Left. Got it.]
Someone asked an old man who lived for decades under communism “why didn’t anyone try to stop the communists in Hungary before they came to power?”. And the man replied: “we didn’t pay much attention. We didn’t think they were all that important.”
The Church currently operates like an arm of the Left. I suppose if one’s views are on the Left, it doesn’t seem like the Left, it seems like the middle, but a solid argument could be made for the Church operating from the solid Left. In fact, so Left it is frightening, one could say now, perhaps radically Left. “If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it’s a duck.”
And if “on the books” the Church is opposed to abortion, say, but gives it lip service, hardly mentions it, prioritizes say, climate change over abortion, could one really say the Church is on the right in terms of abortion? Only in a technical sense, perhaps.
“Do you really think Trump is merciful?”. The amount of a president’s “mercy” is not a legitimate question. He was not elected to demonstrate mercy, although one hopes he has that quality personally of course. Donald Trump is a man who has demonstrated acts of kindness and mercy toward other people, yes. He was told about a sick child that needed to get to a hospital and the airlines would not transport him. He put that child on a private jet. There are other examples, that come from a very long time ago, before presidential aspirations came up.
But the Left must demonize Donald Trump in order to turn the opinions of the gullible masses against him, in order to subvert our democratic process. He must be cast as heartless, cruel, bigoted, mean, to make people easier to manipulate. How silly people are.
“Does he turn the other cheek?”. My word, can you begin to imagine what this last year and a half has been like for this man and his family? No candidate or president has had to endure what he has. Can’t you put yourself into this man’s place and consider for a second the relentless assault from the media, the Left, the intellectual “elites”, the entertainment industry, and imagine how you would respond after a year of this? And despite earning the office, they are still fighting him, and now talk of impeachment or military coups, which are ridiculous, but still dangerous.
“Are people like myself bad to complain about this?”. No, not bad, but terribly, terribly naïve or willfully blind. We are in a war situation here, LovedSinner, a war, a very real war, in both spiritual and temporal terms. President Donald Trump is not your enemy, he is trying his best to keep you, me, and our loved ones safe. Read some articles, please, on what is happening in and to Europe as far as Islam goes. Read up on Paris, London, Brussels, Sweden, Switzerland, and of course, Germany. See what is happening there.
I would encourage you not to let yourself be manipulated by men who have a dog in the fight, for whatever reason. We have been told to take in more immigrants, and even that we are bad Catholics or Christians if we do not do it. This defies history, logic, and simple mathematics. We must realize that we are being manipulated by absolute masters of politics. We must refuse to be manipulated. There is a fight right now over supremacy, the elites of the Left have had it and do not want to give it up. Their “scorched earth” policy shows they are fighting to the death to get it. You and I have to decide which side we are on.
“Stop patriarchy” a.k.a. spoiled rich kids with “daddy issues”.
Andrew: what you posted chimes reminded me immediately of the quote from Solzhenitsyn towards the bottom of the side-bar on the right. It ends:
“We didn’t love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation…. We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”
I should add, LovedSinner, that choosing a side is tragically, no longer as easy as it once was.
The sure guides we once had are gone. We must figure it out for ourselves now.
Pingback: How the Left organizes and operates | Fr. Z’s Blog | Trump:The American Years
You have things exactly backwards. The Church is not a reflection of political parties.
If the right is against abortion then they are on the side of the Church wrt to abortion, if the left is against the use of nuclear weapons, then they are on the side of the Church in that respect.
We need to be Catholics first. Unfortunately, in the US, we tend to frame all these sorts of issues in terms of or political parties, and I believe that is upside down.
Interesting lady in the second video. I clicked your link but didn’t view her stuff, just the titles. It’s odd, too, because most of the aggressive religious patriarchs I know (we don’t have nearly enough, by the way), are against pornography. I don’t think she knows who her friends really are. Or her enemies.
Just web search “indivisible women” and look for their guide. Someone is funding this “grassroots” movement.
I purposely didn’t link directly to their “guide” so you could see all their groups that come up on a search. They’re even organizing in my very small unincorporated town. (Not those who attend Mass on Sunday.)
Conservative lawmakers have already been confronted by these women.
Thank you for pointing this out Father.
We also know that many of the protesters are being paid(that includes those involved with violence) even though they want to” appear” like a grass roots movement like the Tea Party and they certainly are not. We also know the atheist/socialist/globalist who’s money is behind it.
Andrew and jaykay your comments reminding us how communism was able to
inject itself into so many countries in the past should be a wake up call. They actually
describe what I see or hear quite a lot. People either do not want to listen or think
the past cannot happen here and now. Those who do not know history are doomed to
You are right Kathleen10. We are in a war now and it is on two fronts.
Thankfully I am not worried so much right now about the Trump Justice Dept being used
to manipulate the first amendment against our CHRISTIAN freedom of religion. The Obama
appointments to the federal courts are another matter.
@ Fr. Z,
I don’t lean left. I like playing Devil’s Advocate. Plus I have had bad personal experiences from Catholics on the right.
I think I agree with your comment completely. How do I have things exactly backwards?
No one has been demonized like Donald Trump? Really?? You seem to have a very selective memory.
How about Megyn Kelly?
How about Carly Fiorina?
How about John McCain?
How about Rafael Cruz?
How about Heidi Cruz?
How about the disabled reporter Trump mocked?
How about the Khans?
Etc. Etc. I think you mean no one has demonized others like Donald Trump.
The Church has a balanced view of immigration. Currently no Syrians have committed terrorist attacks in the US. The US reviews immigrants from there for 18-24 months, and it is much stricter than Europe. 100,000 civilians have died in Syria. We have an obligation to help them if possible. Since the evidence is that no terrorists have slipped from the screen yet, it seems we should try to save lives.
Also, are a few dozen American lives more valuable than thousands or tens of thousand of Syrian lives? What does the Church say? Hint: Google Doctrine of Double Effect and Trolley Problem.
Why is it that the Left loves democracy – until it comes up with the “wrong” result, when it suddenly becomes “populism” and is to be protested and demonstrated against with wholesale riots and calls to overturn the democratic vote?
Do you remember all the huge demonstrations and riots we “right wing racists, bigots and homophobes” staged after Obama’s election? Me neither – because there weren’t any. Conservatives respect democracy – loony lefties don’t.
LovedSinner: Your phrase “few dozen American lives” is curious. One wonders how you arrived at this number. Helpful to sharpening your estimate of the situation will be these web searches: “terrorists with advanced degrees”, “Project Bacchus”,”DIY gene hacking”,”Australian IL-4 experiment”, and “James Clapper CRISPR can be a WMD”.
Note that each President, regardless of Party, has obligations to preserve the Constitution and the American people.
The next door neighbor of our Bishops Cathedral is the Governors Mansion. A self proclaimed liberal diocese in a liberal democrat controlled city.
LovedSinner, you can’t seriously compare the experiences of Megyn Kelly, or any of these other people, with the singular experience of what President Trump just went through and is going through. Those are absurd comparisons, a media pundit who was criticized for being biased in a debate in which she was paid to be impartial? You can’t be serious. The others you mentioned don’t qualify either. Not at all.
“The Church has a balanced view of immigration.” Does it. The record of violence coming from Islam toward Christianity is so well documented over millennia, if you don’t know it by now, you’re probably going to continue to avoid it, but the record is there if you want to look.
They have not changed their goal. They proclaim it frequently. If you can seriously look at Muslim attacks in Europe, and America, and not come to the conclusion that Muslim populations are unlike EVERY other population in terms of potentially dangerous outcomes, then I don’t know what more I could possibly say to convince you. Your mind is made up. I am convinced that there are many people who will refuse to believe Islamic violence is real until the knife is at their throat, or the throats of their loved ones. Until then, they cannot draw logical conclusions about what is going on, they just CAN’T. It betrays their politically correct obsession and this they cannot do, until it affects them personally. But we can’t wait for all you people to wake up, you’re taking too darn long, but I kind of see why, some people have you in a spiritual headlock. You must realize that on your own.
America has a record of helping other nations and people in trouble that can’t be matched. We are a generous people and that is definite. But we are under no obligation to solve every problem nor take in every group that finds themselves in trouble. That would be impossible. Notice how the Obama administration did nothing about the Christian genocide that even they had to admit was occurring. Last year we admitted 50 Christians and thousands of Muslims. Does that bother you at all? The victims of the genocide were left out? Not mysterious if you understand why.
“Since the evidence is that no terrorists have slipped through the screen yet…”. Continue to play Russian Roulette, LovedSinner, and sooner or later, you are going to find there is a bullet in the chamber. But again, I am convinced liberals will refuse to see it until it affect them personally.
Do you mind gambling with your loved ones?
“Are a few dozen American lives more valuable than thousands or tens of thousands of Syrian lives?”. I have read many comments in many comboxes, and your statement here is one of the most astounding I have ever read. Thank you, for putting it so clearly, that the truth cannot be denied. To liberals, the lives of their fellow Americans, are expendable. Could I please, recommend to you, that instead of imagining the bloodshed, the horror, the violence, of a terrorist attack on “others”, the abstract fellow Americans you just imagined, the ones you don’t know, that you imagine it is you, or your precious loved ones, that are blown apart, bleeding to death in chaos and pandemonium.
I am horrified, really and sincerely, by your statement. You actually should immerse yourself in terrorist education. You should study it, each attack, even if just the ones on American soil. Do you live near a location? I do, near two of them in fact. Would I have to remind you of the carnage? It is not abstract LovedSinner, and I reject, completely and without reservation, anyone, ANYONE, who says we should put ourselves in further danger by admitting to our nation people who are not compatible with our rule of law, who want to insert their own, and who may commit similar acts of terror against Americans, even the ones I may not know personally.
I am just not willing to gamble. You are.
“Also, are a few dozen American lives more valuable than thousands or tens of thousand of Syrian lives?”
What an absolutely appalling question.
ISIS has promised they will embed their people into the Muslim immigrant population coming into the US and I take the threat seriously.
Three thousand innocent Americans killed on 9/11 by Muslim terrorists were quite enough. My eyes were opened.
” Hint: Google Doctrine of Double Effect and Trolley Problem.”
No, the Trolley Problem does not compare.
By the way, are you volunteering your family to be the “few dozen”?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I was under the belief that terrorist control is not achieved by the number of killings but by the fear instilled in the masses.
I hope I would volunteer myself if need be.
There may be a left and right in the Church, but there shouldn’t be cf. John Paul II, Bishop Fulton Sheen, GK Chesterton, many other holy men and women. Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
If a papal document is causing grave confusion, then we should want clarification. Nothing to do with Left/Right
It may be, as you say, that “Currently no Syrians have committed terrorist attacks in the US.”
And before April, 2013, (the Boston Marathon) one could say, “Currently no Kyrgyzstanians have committed terrorist attacks….”
The Church has taken a sharp left turn lately and some of funding comes from the same source as the funding for the Organizing for Action (formerly known as Organizing for Obama) group in the video posted at the top.