14 May – St. Paul, MN: Argument of the Month – SSPX

If I had a little more time before my next trip, I would head over to the Twin Cities for this.

Argument of the Month has been going for years at the parish of a friend of mine, Fr. John Echert, at St. Augustine’s in S. St. Paul.

These events are open to men and boys.  Period.  Lot’s of fathers and sons come.  The food is abundant and really bad for you.  There are cigars, beer, etc., and a public fight (in the form of a civil argument about a pre-determined topic).

They are having their Annual Smoker and a debate about the SSPX.

4:00pm Social Hour and Appetizers
5:10pm Rosary in the Church
5:30pm Traditional Latin Mass
7:00pm Dinner
7:30pm Main Presentation/Debate
9:30pm Wrap Up

The topic:

The Smoker Debate Of May 2019: What Divides Us? The Society of St Pius X and the Catholic Church

1. Is SSPX in schism with the Roman Catholic Church?
2. Are the Sacraments of SSPX valid and licit (confessions, weddings)?
3. What are issues for SSPX beyond the Mass and Sacrament?

If you have never heard of the SSPX and want to understand what the controversy is all about, you are not going to want to miss the next AOTM! We will give context to the controversy, debate the issues and answer the questions above and more.

I would like to go, because, frankly, having worked in the Vatican Curia’s Pontifical Commission “Ecclesia Dei“, I know the answers and… I am right.

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
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  1. Chuck4247 says:

    Wish I could be there. Alas, I will be calling balls and strikes with a different assortment of fathers and sons…

  2. GHP says:

    Father writes: “I would like to go, because, frankly, having worked in the Vatican Curia’s Pontifical Commission “Ecclesia Dei“, I know the answers and… I am right.”

    Errrr …. you left out the fact that you like cigars! Did you get any Cohibas while at GITMO?

    [Drill Sergeant voice] If ya gottem, light em up! [ /voice]

    [I had a great night out with cigars. I think I mentioned sitting under an awning and, when the rain came, watching a family who had a tiny girl with amazing blonde curls run and laugh and scream in the downpour. Cohiba? No. But next week I will be in Rome. I’ll get some.]

  3. DanMan says:

    Go for it Father! I certainly would if it were within driving distance, if only for the barbecued chicken.

  4. DanMan says: Go for it Father!

    I’d really like to be there. But, frankly, my presence would be a distraction. I’d be something like King Kong trying to be invisible in the room. Alas.

  5. Akita says:

    I hope you will post the outcome with your comments in red. Thank you, Father.

  6. GrumpyYoungMan says:

    I am fortunate to be in town on business tomorrow, and have already secured my ticket. Quite excited about this

  7. Bonaventurian says:

    1. No. The irregular status surrounding the SSPX and Rome is handled by the CDF. If they were in schism they would be passed off to the PCPCU.
    2. Yes, see the efforts of Pope Benedict XVI and Pope Francis. SSPX sacraments are valid and licit.
    3. Doctrinal issues surrounding the acceptance of Vatican II.

  8. surritter says:

    Bonaventurian… Agreed on #1.
    For #2, it’s not true that ALL sacraments administered by SSPX are valid and licit.
    For #3, we are often told that Vatican II was a pastoral council. So was there any doctrine being promulgated or “developed”? That’s unclear, and probably one of the discussion points tomorrow in MN.

  9. Semper Gumby says:

    “Wish I could be there. Alas, I will be calling balls and strikes”

    You’re doing the Lord’s work, Chuck4247.

    Speaking of the Argument Club, a classic Fr. Z/Anthony Esolen post (Argument Club in red letters):


  10. samwise says:

    As a South Saint Paul resident, I balance the occasional cigar & BBQ with plenty of exercise (basketball at Fr Erickson’s Parish & rowing in my home gym)

  11. bobbird says:

    I would like to recommend the Italian cigar known as a “Toscano”. They smoke slowly, are as dense as a twig, would make an entry-level smoker quite sick and were made famous by that eminent duck hunter, Giacomo Puccini. If you ever visit Puccini’s villa in Viareggio, check out his hunting den: there is a giant “punt gun” by which he could blast entire rafts of ducks, which he gave to the poor in the area. Lago di Massaciuccoli has been given an alternative name, in commemoration of Italy’s most famous composer/hunter: Lago Puccini.

  12. un-ionized says:

    I’m just a girl but I would love that kind of event. I’m not the sewing circle sort. Spent my career in one of the most rigid meritocracies. Loved it.

  13. richiedel says:

    SSPX Come and See

  14. aquinasadmirer says:

    From the ATOM email yesterday..
    I have been running AOTM since its conception 20years ago. After tomorrow’s event I will be retiring as Director/President of AOTM. I am looking for some men to take over the AOTM and keep it going. If no one steps forward I will be closing down AOTM later this year. If no one steps forward this could be the last event! It has be a great privilege to have served and become friends with so many. I thank God for having had this opportunity. A special thanks to my wife Janene Wuchterl, Fr. Echert, Josh Teske, Michael Matt, Dr. David Deavel, Dale Sherf, Dr. Steve Moore, Michael Olson, Tim Garry, Jim Beers, Paul Sellors and many more volunteers who have helped me for years with the AOTM!
    God Bless!
    Kent Wuchterl

  15. AureEntuluva says:

    I feel some inspiration to try to get something like this started at some nearby parish. I feel there is a lack these days of entertaining and edifying events where YOUNG CATHOLICS can meet and foster fruitful relationships. As a convert in my early 20s, in the deeply un-churched Pacific Northwest, with lots of non-Catholic family and no Catholic friends, I can attest to what I imagine is a widespread phenomenon of LONELINESS among young Catholics.

    I can imagine the segregated nature of this particular event being a barrier at some parishes. Unfortunate but true. The Feminist Left loves the idea of women who “don’t need a man” and decide to spend most of their lives with other women, but a desire on the part of MEN for a single night once in a while of freedom to be unapologetically MALE with other MEN is chauvinism.

    On another note, I think the occasional event of various grab-bag topics separate from purely Church-based issues could be good. Example topic: SABRmetrics/analytics— GOOD OR BAD FOR BASEBALL?

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