Society and God’s role

I was sent a brief video made a few years ago. It is about religious freedom. It is about the bedrock of our society. The video features Clay Christensen, a Mormon and economist, etc., who died in 2020 from cancer.

I was struck by the concise clarity, ending with a one-line, prophetic conclusion presently being verified almost every day in the news.

This is also on YouTube HERE

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
This entry was posted in Religious Liberty, The Coming Storm, The future and our choices and tagged . Bookmark the permalink.


  1. monstrance says:

    Begs the question.
    Was separation of Church and State such a great idea ?
    George Washington feared what would become of our republic if our people lost a sense of morality.

  2. LeeGilbert says:

    By way of analogy, many years ago just after my conversion I would frequently go out to New Melleray Monastery near Dubuque to see a Trappist monk who had taken me under his wing with lots of prayer and good counsel. But one winter day as I was driving out there full of angst and confusion my car broke down near Madison, and it was not possible to continue. My prayer, essentially, was “Why God?” And I definitely got the idea that God was not pleased with my relying more on Fr. Daniel than on Him. Our God is a jealous God.

    More recently wasn’t I, along with 75,000, 000 other Americans, relying on President Trump to save our bacon? With his victory, which I fully expected, we would continue in the direction of school choice, the elimination of abortion, the return to normality and decency. In the run up to the election how many hours did I not waste listening to my favorite pundits and celebrating with them his victory in advance, and after the election listening to the same pundits confidently and smugly tracing out his path to victory. Were you false prophets Joe DiGenova, Steve Turley, Bill Still, Glen Beck, et al.? Even now I have not altogether given up hope, Heaven help me.

    And yet, does not Scripture say, “Put not your trust in princes?” Where is our trust, our hope? Many years ago I heard a Pentecostal preacher commenting on the psalm verse, “I look to the hills whence shall come my help . . . .”said, “Brother you can look to the hills, you can look to your banker, you can look to your brother-in-law, but until you start looking to the Lord, ain’t nothing going to happen.” Our situation exactly.
    And again, here in Portland when the riots began I told my confessor that I was thinking a lot about Samson who killed a thousand men with the jawbone of an ass. He laughed and said that I needed to pay more attention to the Greater Battle. In other words, in this war we have to take up the weapons of Christ, prayer, fasting, preaching, suffering, not so that the Democrats, Marxists, Pornographers, Fornicators, Homosexuals, Transsexuals, Abortionists and false teachers be overthrown politically or culturally, but that they be converted.

    Do I have, then, enough love in my heart to pray for Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden, Kamela Harris, et al.? Not really. So that is where the battle really is, the battle within, and if we do not conquer ourselves in that precise respect what will become of our enemies, of our country, and of ourselves? Somehow we have to pry our eyes from the passing scene, put the pop corn aside, replace our pundits with sacred wisdom and get serious, very serious, especially with ourselves. Lent is coming, thanks be to God, a season in which He may accomplish our reform if we ask Him. There is no other hope, for we are, as a country, clearly out of grace. It may be that the Lord will make America great again . . . if we ask Him

  3. Kathleen10 says:

    What an excellent commentary. I wish Mormons would be Catholics and join the Traditional Latin Mass movement. They are some of the nicest and most moral people around.
    It is a profound point he makes, and as we see, it is too true.

  4. Semper Gumby says:

    “A Republic, if you can keep it.” – Benjamin Franklin

    “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” – John Adams

    The West is experiencing a re-paganizing moment as many turn to the occult, Wicca, ancient pagan gods and goddesses, and street-gang cults such as BLM and Antifa. Then there are the pseudo-religions, such as “globalism” and the Death Party political religion.

    Despite the “Build Back Better” preening and “Great Reset” sophisticated blather, the Left is on their usual bender of Heaven on Earth utopianism, Wonderful Me elitism and mockery of God, the Family and the Virtues. The New Barbarians are inspired by the same old story- French Revolution Terror, Karl Marx, Margaret Sanger and eugenics, the Gulag and Industrialized Re-education, Adolf Hitler and the Reichstag Opportunity, Chairman Mao and Crush the Four Olds- and it’s having the same old consequences.

    Who edumacated those people? They never learn.

  5. Pingback: FRIDAY EDITION – Big Pulpit

  6. chuckharold says:

    Semper Gumby asks a good question, “Who edumacated those people? They never learn.” One problem, of course, is that those on the other side of the argument ask the same question. The nation is truly divided about so many issues that it is difficult to have rational debates about almost anything. We do know, there is much evidence, that people live in separate realities. One group listens only to Fox News unless they consider it too liberal, and another listens only to MSNBC. Within each of those media giants, conflict reigns between the news sections and the talking-heads. Then, there is talk radio with the likes of Rush et al. This nation was founded, based on the great writers of The Enlightenment: cogito ergo sum, that all men are created equal. Today, too many of our fellow citizens don’t believe the American Creed. Too many find it difficult to understand and even survive the diaspara occuring in the nation, from rural to city, from low-tech to high tech. Some even believed in QAnon.

  7. TRW says:

    LeeGilbert ,
    This is an excellent point you make. I had the same thought a short while back. I opened up the Bible and sure enough, Jeremiah 23:16 was staring me in the face :
    “Thus says the Lord of hosts: Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you; they are deluding you. They speak visions of their own minds, not from the mouth of the Lord.”

  8. Semper Gumby says:

    chuckharold wrote:

    “Semper Gumby asks a good question, “Who edumacated those people? They never learn.” One problem, of course, is that those on the other side of the argument ask the same question.”

    The difference, of course, is the Left is anti-Christian, anti-Jewish and anti-American. “Progressive Education” (an Orwellian term) is mainly fomenting hatred of their fellow citizens, perpetual racial animosity, sex “education” that may begin as early as kindergarten, and allowing “males” to roam girls’ locker rooms and girls’ sports teams.

    “We do know, there is much evidence, that people live in separate realities.”

    The Death Party political religion created their own reality: the State is their Church, Evolution their Cosmology, Abortion their Sacrament, “Global Warming” (they’ve now appropriated “Climate Change”) their Judgement Day, domestic terrorists their Clergy and Martyrs, and Wonderful Me or the current Dear Leader of the Death Party their Savior.

    “Then, there is talk radio with the likes of Rush et al.”

    God bless Rush Limbaugh, who was in the fight against Tyranny before Fox News (which is clearly having problems these days).

    “This nation was founded, based on the great writers of The Enlightenment: cogito ergo sum, that all men are created equal.”

    Nope, see the Declaration of Independence: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights…” Helpful here are Michael Novak’s “On Two Wings: Humble Faith and Common Sense at the American Founding” and Samuel Gregg’s “Tea Party Catholic: The Catholic Case for Limited Government, a Free Economy, and Human Flourishing.” The Founders were also influenced by the lessons of ancient Greece and Rome, the Thirty Years War, and St. Aquinas and Bellarmine. Cheers.

  9. Semper Gumby says:

    Political scientist Donald Lutz studied the citations in the Founder’s political writings. Of 3,154 citations over a thousand were from the Bible, John Locke and David Hume were under a hundred each.

    Expanding on the “creating their own reality” theme. During his Installation Speech Joe Biden referred to the Capitol as “sacred ground.” Typical Death Party political religion propaganda. The Capitol is important and to be given due respect, but churches and synagogues are sacred ground. Fortifying the Capitol is meant to condition the populace, particularly tourists and school groups visiting the Capitol who will see it up close and personal, to the Big Lie: “Christians and conservatives are domestic terrorists.”

  10. Semper Gumby says:

    The problematic John Courtney Murray SJ, though he had a few good points in his 1960 book “We Hold These Truths,” is mainly irrelevant these days.

    Murray was involved in the 1964 Hyannisport Conclave. From the August 2009 post “The 1964 Hyannisport Conclave: Catholic leaders teaching Catholic pols how to ignore evil”:

    “It was the consensus at the Hyannisport conclave that Catholic politicians “might tolerate legislation that would permit abortion under certain circumstances if political efforts to repress this moral error led to greater perils to social peace and order.””

    Murray was fond of saying: “Civilization is formed by men locked together in argument. From this dialogue, the community becomes a political community.”

    That’s fine generally speaking, but in AD 2021 the Death Party political religion is not interested in argument, but in violence, one-party rule and extinguishing, one way or another, all who oppose their beliefs.

    At this moment the Death Party political religion is running amok, its zealots delirious with what they perceive as Victory. Their victory is fleeting.

    Ecclesiastes: “There is an appointed time for everything, and a time for every affair under the heavens.”

Comments are closed.