VALLI: What’s the mood like in the Vatican these days? And about Francis and ‘Traditionis custodes’

Long time vaticanista Aldo Maria Valli gave an interview about all things Francesco/Bergoglio. He talks about the rumors concerning Francis’s health, a conclave, the scandal of Becciu, synods (“walking together”), Hungary and Orban.

Valli’s most telling comments were about the ethos of Rome and about Traditionis custodes. Concerning the former, I felt this the last few times I was there.

What atmosphere do you really breathe in the Vatican these days?  [What’s the mood like?]

“The feeling of temporariness (provvisorietà) and insecurity is palpable. This is accompanied by a climate of tension and suspicion, for fear of being subjected to purges and retaliation »

Retaliation? Really?

“In the recent case of the motu proprio which effectively abolishes Summorum Pontificum, the bishops have been clearly told that if they do not align they will be removed without too many compliments.”

About the cruel Motu Proprio TC with my zisk:

Meanwhile, as you recalled, the Pontiff made sure to prepare the ground for the suppression of the Latin Mass. Why launch this war?

“Because it is precisely by unleashing a war and provoking dissensions and protests that Bergoglio can demonstrate that the Tridentine Mass is ‘divisive'”.  [Jesuits are famous for their general lack of liturgical knowledge and interest.  TC must come from that, surely.  However, it is also useful because it caused a distraction from something else.  I think it will backfire.]

It is not so?

“With a wise and generous application of Benedict XVI’s previous motu proprio Summorum Pontificum, communities linked to the ancient rite have never found themselves in conflict with other faithful and priests”. [Do you see the key word there?  “Faithful” and priests. Conflicts might arise with priest and “faithful” who are not faithful.]

Does Francesco want to fuel a conflict that did not exist?

“Arousing the casus belli is typical of Francis’ Peronist [!] mentality: first he provokes the exasperated reaction of those he wants to hit, and then in the face of their protest he shows himself authoritarian and despotic and accuses them of disobedience”.

Isn’t it paradoxical that the apostolic letter, which practically tried to eliminate the ancient rite, is called Traditionis custodes?

“Francis, citing the Council, defines bishops as “guardians of Tradition” precisely when he forces them to abolish their main expression, which is the liturgical one. Anyone who sees this as a sort of mockery is not completely wrong ».

Precisely.

“It is painful that someone who is called “Holy Father” shows himself so cruel to his children, and so tolerant with those who are declared enemies of Christ, the Church and the Pope”.

I remind the readership of the post I made about the four “lynch” (an appropriate word) pins of Francis’ reign.

Francis’ Four Postulates from his programmatic encyclical “Evangelii gaudium”

This includes a description of Caudillismo – a quintessentially Argentinian socio-political phenomonon of a “strong man”, the most famous of whom have been Juan Manuel de Rosas (1793– 1877) – from whose writing Francis drew his “Four Postulates” – and, of course, Juan Peròn (+1974).

Please go review that post.  It is really useful.

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About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
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21 Comments

  1. Danteewoo says:

    Francis, sower of discord. By the way, when you wrote “zisk,” I could think only of Rickie Zisk, who played baseball for four teams in the 70s and 80s, including my White Sox, and who in 2004 was inducted into the National Polish-American Sports Hall of Fame. Fine article, Father.

  2. Provoking a violent response in order to justify demonizing and ultimately suppressing the opposition is standard revolutionary procedure.

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  4. iamlucky13 says:

    “Because it is precisely by unleashing a war and provoking dissensions and protests that Bergoglio can demonstrate that the Tridentine Mass is ‘divisive'”

    I don’t know whether this was the case or not, but especially if true, it is even more important now than ever not to take the bait. Don’t prove right those who want to prove the extraordinary form is divisive. Regardless of whether Pope Francis himself was seeking to provoke a response, others would certainly like few things more than the opportunity to prove attendees are rigid and divisive.

    Be patient and charitable. Be respectful of those attached to the ordinary form. Uphold the council, even as you explain how the older form has enriched your spiritual life. Be respectful of the bishops, as well, seeking to make feedback constructive, rather than critical.

    In short, work to disprove the generalizations that seem to be underlie Traditionis custodes.

  5. Ariseyedead says:

    When they’re trying to rattle your cage, sometimes the best response is that of the stereotypical California surfer dude, “Yeah, whatever, man.” And just keep doing what you’re doing.

  6. MaterDeicolumbae says:

    As a young innocent Mexican girl growing up in Southern California, I thought those gringo California surfer dudes were cute.
    I eventually married a polyglot half-Polish guy with blue eyes.
    My mother really wanted my sister (who married an Italian) and I to marry Mexican guys but we weren’t into them.

  7. summorumpontificum777 says:

    It is a classic authoritarian technique to pick a fight with the despised minority opposition and provoke them into a reaction that will justify the implementation of even more draconian measures against them. You can go back to the way Catholics were treated in Elizabethan England, i.e., wage total war against them and provoke them into proving their disloyalty to the crown (e.g., with the Gunpowder Plot, etc.) to justify even greater oppression of them. Ultimately, though, it’s worth remembering that the recusants of England were never totally defeated. But, as with the early 17th century, things appear to be on track to get worse before they get better. This is Kulturkampf. The old-rite trads represent a small but significant counter-weight that must be eliminated in order to usher in a new Church with a new priesthood… and finally implement the Spirit of Vatican II that was allowed to dissipate c. 1975. Anyone who can’t see what’s coming with the German synod (and its other sister synods) has his head in the sand. I truly believe that the abolition of the priesthood as we know it is their ultimate end-game. And it’s going to come in the form of clerical celibacy abolition, the ordination of women, the ordination of non-celibate gays and lesbians, “the priesthood of all believers,” you name it. The revolution is on in a big way.

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  9. Kate says:

    A bit off tangent, but…

    An interesting thing has happened since Traditionis Custodes at our parish. We had our meeting with the bishop, and we knew the ax was falling. (It did.) We were prepared, and so we were able to keep heads cool and not shoot ourselves in the foot for the future.

    However, our NO friends have become contentious. They came out to support us. Then, they organized themselves and are boldly making the claim, “If the NO was what it is supposed to be, then they wouldn’t have left it in the first place!” (Not true for most of us. It is interesting, though, and I’m cheering for them.) They have organized and are peltering the pastor and bishop with all the changes that they want, supplying the necessary documentation in the form of Vatican documents, encyclicals, motu proprios, etc. to support them.

    Now the bishop has to not only have to deal with us (we’re not going anywhere), but he has created a new problem for himself.

  10. prayfatima says:

    Kate, I hope that happens more and more.

    Francis has not only provoked the good people in the church, but he has caused a major distraction to the wise people, at a time when the world is trying to usher in a covid form of communism. It makes my head hurt. God have mercy on all people of goodwill.

  11. TonyO says:

    Kate, I hope that happens more and more.

    Me too. In fact, although I happen to assist at mass far more often at NO masses than at TLM masses, I have been defending TLM and denouncing the marxist ideology of TC left and right – so at least in a sense I am one of those NO-people myself. (At least I can claim so to a bishop, hahaha!) There are some NO people who have been “woken” by TC to ask “what the heck is all this about, and why do none of the TLM people I have run into look like the picture Francis is painting? What ELSE is not like his picture?”

    Francis has not only provoked the good people in the church, but he has caused a major distraction to the wise people, at a time when the world is trying to usher in a covid form of communism.

    Good point. There is no doubt that Satan is using everything he can to mix things up and create chaos, bringing up guns to bear on every aspect of the Truth that he can. It is ironic that God will use his own tools against him…eventually. In the meantime, good people will suffer – God give us patience. And the wisdom to know where to resist.

  12. defenderofTruth says:

    I heard a homily by an English priest who said the Church and the anti-Church exist in the same liturgical and juridical space. I think that is entirely true. Modernism uses the words of the Catholic Faith to promote error by distorting the meaning of those words. The anti-Church uses the vestiges, titles, positions, ceremonies, legal structure, etc to lure people away from the Truth by distorting those elements just enough.

    The thing is, eventually, the two MUST diverge: the Catholic Church and the anti-Church MUST be revealed for what they are. Bergoglio’s TC is part of that process, I think. For 60 years, Catholics have been fed numerous lies and distortions about Traditional Catholics, namely demonizing the SSPX. With TC, you now have the temptation for Catholics to flock to the SSPX…and then Bergoglio can excommunicate the SSPX, demonstrating that Tradition is not part of the “New Church”…

  13. defenderofTruth says:

    I heard a homily by an English priest who said the Church and the anti-Church exist in the same liturgical and juridical space. I think that is entirely true. Modernism uses the words of the Catholic Faith to promote error by distorting the meaning of those words. The anti-Church uses the vestiges, titles, positions, ceremonies, legal structure, etc to lure people away from the Truth by distorting those elements just enough.

    The thing is, eventually, the two MUST diverge: the Catholic Church and the anti-Church MUST be revealed for what they are. Bergoglio’s TC is part of that process, I think. For 60 years, Catholics have been fed numerous lies and distortions about Traditional Catholics, namely demonizing the SSPX. With TC, you now have the temptation for Catholics to flock to the SSPX…and then Bergoglio can excommunicate the SSPX, demonstrating that Tradition is not part of the “New Church”…

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  15. Jones says:

    That is great to hear Kate and gives me so much hope. That’s how true resistant is done, compared to other online Catholic voices who admonish Catholics to leave the faith altogether because there’s contention on who’s the actual Pope and if you don’t you’re effectively putting your soul in eternal danger. What a bold thing to claim. It’s edifying to see Catholics not abandon the faith and Our Lord. As if the Pope’s identity hasn’t been in question in times past while lay Catholics STILL went to mass. Also the way your parish handled it was very smooth. It is a demonic tactic at it’s root and can be defeated by having your ducks in a row and by praying as you guys did. Well done.

    Barnhardt wrote an article about the Anti church and the actual church by Father Linus Clovis here’s a link to his post.

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/the-anti-church-has-arrived-and-it/

  16. bartlep says:

    TC, Bergolio, NO, modernists, et are all part of the plan of The Great Reset and The New World Order.

    https://www.complicitclergy.com/2021/09/01/vigano-considerations-on-the-great-reset-and-the-new-world-order/

  17. Kathleen10 says:

    I’m not sure I fit in with any Catholic circles anymore. I don’t feel like pretending I’m patient or any of the other sweet emotions I don’t feel anymore. I’m watching both my church of 1500 years and my country of over 200 years become the enemy of me and mine. From what is proposed here both are provoking good people while hoping for a reaction they can use. Poke, poke, poke. Sooner or later, patience is gone and what you loved with all your heart becomes what you resent. The men who do these things are wicked, wicked men. People are dancing with the devil, and you can’t win when the devil holds pretty much all the cards. This must be why God wondered if He’d find faith on earth when He returned. We need a win. Or maybe I need a win, but I can’t be alone. Losing and losing has been done to death.

  18. Shonkin says:

    There’s more about the Pope’s Peronist mentality in Marcantonio Colonna’s book, “The Dictator Pope. ” It’s worth a read.

  19. Kathleen10 says:

    I don’t care to pretend anything with the church any longer. I may have to endure this persecution but I don’t have to be polite anymore to the people who are doing it. If the opportunity arises I am going to tell churchmen what I think of the pope and them if they don’t act like bishops and help the people. I have already started by giving my much-respected pastor a bit of an earful about the vaccine mandate and the bishops basically telling us to go pound sand. We have been told to be polite and patient and meek and all those other things that were fine in 2012 but which stink to high heaven today. If the porcupine slides down the throat of the python the python thinks he’s swallowed an eel. The porcupine needs to stick out it’s quills and dig his feet into the throat of that python to stop the momentum or he’s going to end up in the gullet. If the python suffers no ill effects why should he not continue eating porcupines. Who cares if he says later, that porcupine was so polite. We’ve got no fire. We’re entirely tamed. It’s pathetic. Nobody has anything to worry about from us.

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  21. prayfatima says:

    Kathleen 10, I hear you! One thing I can’t stand is the news. It’s a wasteland of bad, sad news. How are we really sure what is true or not? It’s so overwhelming. And people lap it up like they’re parched puppies thirsty for anything that resembles water. And the news that should stay and be a focus, gets washed away with the new daily whatever. The vaccine mandate needs to be fought at every turn. Will it be major news Monday morning? No one thinks anymore. Do companies really want everyone to take an experimental vaccine, pushed through during crisis time, one for a “virus” that has 99% survival rate? Think about it. Yes, think. Don’t just read and believe the daily gossip. The problem is, the news just glosses over a tyrannical mandate and says, ho hum, what other sick story can we infect our fellow citizens with? The news is awful. I want to drown it out with anything else but their death songs.

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