Bp. Barron cancelled the TLM at a parish and moved it to a school chapel

UPDATE 14 Feb 2023:

For the sake of fairness and clarity.

The Diocese of Winona-Rochester issued a “Statement on the Traditional Latin Mass in the Diocese” – HERE

TEXT:

Statement on the Traditional Latin Mass in the Diocese

This morning, a blogger unrelated to the Diocese of Winona-Rochester posted an inaccurate comment about the future of the usus antiquior (i.e., the “Traditional Latin Mass”) in the diocese. Bishop Robert Barron, in his pastoral concern for all the faithful of his Diocese, including those with a special attachment to the Traditional Latin Mass, has no intention of eliminating the celebration of the Mass in this form in the Diocese of Winona-Rochester. Rather, in seeking to follow the Church’s laws more faithfully, the Diocese is currently in the process of discerning appropriate “locations where the faithful adherents of these groups may gather for the eucharistic celebration” which, as per the Vatican document Traditiones Custodes, are to be places other than parish churches. Every effort is being made to find sacred spaces for this purpose which suitably reflect the beauty and dignity of the liturgy.

Moreover, there is more to be said about Bp. Barron and his gesture toward the SSPX.

This is fascinating.

As the priest wrote to me (below):

Barron also granted the SSPX permission to celebrate mass and sacraments in the same chapel, and assigned the priest responsible for the traditional community with the task of ensuring good relations with the SSPX.

 


ORIGINALLY Published on: Feb 13, 2023 at 10:29

I had first posted about this based on the tweets of a distraught parishioner, clearly upset that the parish is losing the Vetus Ordo.

I just received an email from a priest with additional information.

As someone who is aware of Bishop Barron’s decision, the Mass was not canceled. It was moved from a parish where it was being celebrated on a table to a college chapel where there is a high altar and altar railing. This is the chapel where high masses in the diocese are usually celebrated, and the request to move the Mass came at the request of the priest responsible (Fr. Patrick Arens) for the community as a way of ensuring their stability and also closeness to the young people at the college who support the Mass.

[NB!!!] Barron also granted the SSPX permission to celebrate mass and sacraments in the same chapel, and assigned the priest responsible for the traditional community with the task of ensuring good relations with the SSPX.

Attached is a photo of the most recent Mass in the college chapel.

I was rather sharp in my original post about what Bp. Barron did. I feel keenly the pain that people have over their access to the Vetus Ordo, in the wake of the unnecessarily cruel Traditionis custodes. I know that the people of that parish will still be disappointed and I won’t patronize them by saying that, “It could have been worse.” All of this is so unnecessary and, as others far more versed in law think, unlawful.

What is important is that as many people as possible frequent the Masses at that chapel and that they conduct themselves with prudence and decorum. It is also important in an ongoing way for them to pray for their bishop.

Again and again we see bishops who know little or nothing about the Vetus Ordo making all manner of decisions about it.  That seems imprudent and unjust.  I maintain, moreover, that a priest of the Roman Catholic Church doesn’t really know his Rite until he has learned the Vetus Ordo.  It stands to reason.

I hope Bp. Barron will take the time to learn how to celebrate the Vetus Ordo in the manner of a priest, even though his way of saying Mass would now be changed due to his episcopal character. One thing many bishops don’t know is that the higher the ecclesial dignity of the one celebrating, the easier it is to be the celebrant. More on that elsewhere.

UPDATE:

Another person sent…

I went to college at Winona State University and know the area well. For more clarification, the place +Barron moved the TLM is at Our Lady of the Angels chapel at Cotter High School. At least, the photo you posted is in that chapel. So, it’s not a college (though, waaay back in the day I do believe it might have been a women’s college, but don’t quote me on that).

The chapel, for the record, is stunningly gorgeous.

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31 Comments

  1. happymom says:

    Thank you for the update, Father. Let us pray that many college students fall in love with the TLM as well, and yearn for it and search it out after graduation. As the mother of seminarians, I often wonder in fear about pressures (natural and supernatural) put upon bishops. If we truly love our bishops (as we should!), we would fast and pray very hard and often for them. They are not politicians or CEO’s, but our God- given shepherds. May He guide, protect and strengthen them in His truth and love!

  2. Benedict Joseph says:

    A great relief. Bishop Barron acted with prudence and discretion at a difficult moment.

  3. millercr2 says:

    Seems this may be a move from Mankato, MN, to Winona, MN? If so, that’s 2 1/2 hour away.

  4. TheCavalierHatherly says:

    Sounds to me like a pretty good deal. Our community has been in three different parish churches over the last decade, all of them ugly, with bad acoustics and suboptimal availability for our Mass times. And yet we’ve still flourished.

    If we were given the use of a building like that I would be overjoyed.

  5. Chrisc says:

    A bit of background. I think this chapel is attached to a high school, which at one point was the College chapel in downtown Winona.
    The college also called St Marys moved about 5 miles away.
    Also, there is the Holy Angels SSPX novitiate just beside the newer location for the university. So I would imagine the divide between traditional and not is pretty stark here in the local community.
    The chapel currently is pretty restrictive in its availability. I am unsure as to why the local SSPX community would like to use this chapel except perhaps as a way to allow them to return to the church they worshipped at when they were attending the college or high school. Whatever the reason, it is generous.

  6. Athelstan says:

    Seems this may be a move from Mankato, MN, to Winona, MN? If so, that’s 2 1/2 hour away.

    I went to college at Winona State University and know the area well. For more clarification, the place +Barron moved the TLM is at Our Lady of the Angels chapel at Cotter High School. At least, the photo you posted is in that chapel.

    If I have sussed this out correctly, the parish in question is St Michael’s in Pine Island…and it is a little over an hour’s drive from St Michael’s. So, this might be a considerable drive for some of the parishioners.

    I am curious just what college students the priest correspondent is referring to, since the chapel is attached to a high school. The colleges in the diocese are basically all in Rochester, which is the better part of an hour away.

    Like Father Z, I won’t patronize these parishioners by saying “it could be worse.” These extra pieces of information do not take away the pain of losing a parish Mass, but they do add in some other actions which are, at least, positive developments.

  7. summorumpontificum777 says:

    The chapel is absolutely gorgeous. (Google: Volkman photography Chapel of St. Mary of the Angels). While few TLMers would be enthusiastic about relocating from a parish where they’re comfortable, I can’t knock Bishop Barron on this one. At this point, in 2023, if you’re getting a regular TLM in a beautiful chapel, just tell the bishop, “Thank you very much,” and accept it. We have to pick our battles at this stage, and this isn’t one that calls for a fight.

  8. Interestingly, Bishop Barron giving the SSPX permission to use a chapel comes in the midst of another wave of SSPX-is-in-schism hysteria.

  9. Andrew Glanville says:

    The Chapel is a part of St.Mary’s University. When the former girls college went under, St.Mary’s bought it and it is now used for Sunday TLMs.

  10. dbs says:

    Athelstan – St. Michael’s in Pine Island is in a different diocese (Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis). St. Mary’s University and IHM Seminary are both in Winona.

  11. Athelstan says:

    At this point, in 2023, if you’re getting a regular TLM in a beautiful chapel, just tell the bishop, “Thank you very much,” and accept it.

    Those able to attend this new TLM *should* thank him.

    But I do think it has to be noted that – contrary to my earlier comment – the parish where the current TLM is being suppressed is located in Mankato, which is…over two hours drive away from the Our Lady of the Angels chapel in Winona. For those parishioners, that means a 4.5 hour round trip (in good traffic) to have a Sunday TLM in their diocese, and it is a puzzle why a “non-pariochial church” location in Mankato itself (and there are some of these, including the seminary right across the street from the parish, to be had!) was not selected. I do not know the answer to that. I only know the solution that was chosen is a pretty major imposition on the members of that parish who attend that TLM.

    There are a couple of TLMs considerably closer to Mankato, in the neighboring diocese of New Ulm. I assume most of the Mankato trads will go to one of those. But then, that assumes that the Bishop of New Ulm won’t be pressured by Rome into cancelling those, too!

  12. Athelstan says:

    Hello dbs,

    Athelstan – St. Michael’s in Pine Island is in a different diocese (Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis). St. Mary’s University and IHM Seminary are both in Winona.

    Indeed, that is correct! My earlier comment was in error, as I learned from the parishioner who first made the announcement, after I submitted it to Fr Z! The parish in question is apparently in Mankato. And that is, indeed, a very long drive from Winona, which is where the new TLM is going to be located.

  13. Mikhael says:

    @ Athelstan

    The move wasn’t from Mankato to Winona. The move occurred within Winona.

    Further, St. Michael’s in Pine Island is actually in the archdiocese, not Winona-Rochester. St Michael’s still has the TLM on Sundays, First Fridays and other feasts.

  14. Denis Crnkovic says:

    Two different situations are being confused here. The move to the chapel of the former St Mary’s College is from a nearby Winona parish. The TLM at Ss Peter and Paul in Mankato is being shut down as of the first Sunday of Lent. Negotiations are underway to find a different venue, including the local Catholic school chapel. We were told that the situation is complex, since – among other considerations- there is no guarantee that the parish priests who currently say the TLM will be available to say Mass. If the Mass is moved to the school chapel it will be a serious artistic downgrade from a beautiful old German neogothic venue to a stark brick-infested 1960s wrongheaded idea of simplicity. It appears that Bishop Barron is moving the TLMs out of parish churches, without necessarily suppressing them. That, of course, is part of the TC’s underhanded strategy, i.e. to make this TLM thingee as inconvenient as possible.

  15. Athelstan says:

    Hello Mikhael,

    This conversation is difficult to sustain through what are entirely *unofficial* sources reporting different things, but:

    1) I am not aware of, and can find no public information on, any TLM’s in Winona beyond those celebrated by the SSPX. None of the major TLM directories, including Una Voce Minnesota, lists anything in Winona. I do not know what Fr Arens has been celebrating, or where; if he has indeed been offering a TLM, it has not been made public. (Which, these days, might not be so surprising!) So, I cannot comment much on that.

    2) I think the problem in Mankato is that the TLM there (at Ss. Peter and Paul Catholic Church) apparently is being *eliminated*, with *no replacement* as such. I was responding to the sense offered by some that the Winona chapel *would* be acting as a replacement. It is over 2 hours away, however, so…

    3) There are indeed a couple of regular TLM’s not too far away in the neighboring Diocese of New Ulm, and the one in Pine Island is one of them. My first comment was in error on this point. It could be, indeed, that many of the Mankato TLM people will end up going to one of those TLM’s going forward, because they are far closer to them than Winona is.

    Beyond that, I fear, we must await official statements from the Diocese.

  16. Athelstan says:

    I wonder, by the way, if what we are seeing is two people who are touching entirely different parts of the elephant:

    1) The pastor of the parish in Mankato with a TLM hears from the chancery that his TLM has to be suppressed, and that is all he has heard. He announces it yesterday to his parishioners. One of them, a popular #TradCath on Twitter, tweets out the sad news. It is all that she knows, too.

    2) A priest of the diocese located in or at least connected with Winona has learened something else: That a TLM (which is not publicly advertised) that Fr Arens has been celebrating in an awkward Winona area parish gets to be “moved” to a far nicer and more fitting chapel, and that the SSPX will get permission to use it, too. This is all he has heard, and to him, it sounds like a “Win-Win” situation all around.

    But it could be that both of these things are true, and, having no reason to distrust either of these sources, I would say, it sounds like they both ARE true.

    And if that is the case, it’s good news for trads in the Winona area. Good news for relations with the SSPX. But bad news for people going to the TLM in Mankato…unless there is some other arrangement in the hopper to replace it that no one in Mankato has been told about yet.

    It sure would help if the Diocese were to make a complete, public, official announcement.

  17. Kathleen10 says:

    What bishops decide to do for or against the TLM in their diocese tells Catholics pretty much everything about them. It is basically a litmus test for their faithfulness, fidelity, certainly their compassion, and the all-important whether or not they are a complete toadie.

  18. timothyturtle says:

    Tough spot for Bishops but I think anyone having to drive more than an hour to get to a Sunday TLM should write to their Bishop “ regretfully I will be diverting all of my giving to the SSPX until such time as there is a Sunday TLM within an hour drive for me. Sincerely “
    Enough letters like this will make a difference. We can’t keep financing them while they step on our necks.

  19. antcns says:

    St. Michael’s is approximately one hour away from both Mankato and Winona, and we have many parishioners who travel at least 30 minutes from Rochester and environs to attend the TLM. I am not aware of any priests in the city Rochester who are open to it at this time.
    Fr. Arens is a solid priest who has celebrated the TLM. Perhaps the request for the move was to protect it from future suppression in a parish and with ready access to SSPX?
    I have been to a NO Mass celebrated by Bishop Barron in the St. Mary of the Angels Chapel. It is perfectly suited to TLM. The chapel was part of the College of St. Teresa, so Thank God it has been preserved. It is accessible from the street and there is ample parking.
    I am aware that many are quick to ascribe dark motives to Bishop Barron without knowing all the facts on the ground. He is doing good things behind the scenes and bringing new energy to lay faithful and clergy alike. He is getting to know the lay of the land here (which has many entrenched resisters). I’m sorry that the TLM community now has to travel. For all we know, BB could be learning the TLM, but by saying it publicly before his first year isn’t even done, is a sure way to get him yanked. Please consider cutting him a little slack.

  20. TheCavalierHatherly says:

    @Denis Crnkovic

    “That, of course, is part of the TC’s underhanded strategy, i.e. to make this TLM thingee as inconvenient as possible.”

    Which is an amusingly misguided strategy, because:

    1) It now selects for determined people, the very kinds of people who will cause endless loss of sleep for our jailkeepers.

    2) There is an entire swath of people in the younger generations who choose to do inconvenient things for some sake or another, aesthetic or what have you. (eg. Hipsters, cottagecore, etc) They are now being “marketed to,” so to speak.

    Basically, attract and sift highly motivated people to oppose us. Were have I seen such brilliant plans before… “Wiley Coyote, you genius, you’ve done it again!”

  21. Athelstan says:

    St. Michael’s is approximately one hour away from both Mankato and Winona, and we have many parishioners who travel at least 30 minutes from Rochester and environs to attend the TLM.

    Thank you for that clarification.

    The only thing I might add as a concern here is that St Michael’s is a parish of the Archdiocese of St. Paul-Minneapolis, not Winona-Rochester. If Bishop Barron actually had this in mind as the “solution” for the Mankato trads, it would be a de facto shuffling off of any pastoral responsibility for these members of his flock to a neighboring diocese. The does not seem any more edifying than giving them a replacement location over two hours away (which, I don’t think, was ever the intention), and I would *like* to think that Bishop Barron would not be so callous.

    In any case, however, it seems from the Diocese’s statement that they have not yet made a final decision on what to do for the Mankato TLM, beyond what *appears* to be an inevitable decision to remove it from Ss Peter and Paul. It at least sounds like they might be trying to find a non-parochial church somewhere nearby to set up a substitute TLM. Hopefully, we will find out what that is before too long.

  22. WVC says:

    Every time a bishop treats the entirely incoherent, insidious, and illegitimate Traditiones Custodes as legitimate (no matter how “compassionately” they try to accommodate those being persecuted), it does, in fact, become a little bit more legitimate.

    This abomination will become Church Law not because of authenticity or even the bare minimum level of it following proper legal procedure but entirely because of cowardly compliance and gross legal incompetence by those who should know better and should act otherwise.

    Future generations will not have nice things to say about us. I don’t blame them.

  23. Pingback: TVESDAY AFTERNOON EDITION – Big Pulpit

  24. donato2 says:

    The update is a relief. Bishop Baron is not a trad, obviously, but it would have been a bad sign concerning the alignment of ecclesial forces had he gone on the war path against the TLM. It would have contradicted, and thereby upset, what my assessment of the situation is: that the middle of the road bishops are waiting this all out. Bishops are by nature political animals. Most of them know that the TLM cannot be suppressed in the long term. It is impossible because the TLM has the support of the most vibrant sector of Catholic youth. There is no way that these young people, who in the aggregate will long out live the current bishops, are just going to forget about the TLM. I cannot understand what Pope Francis’ vision of the end game in all this is. Does he really think that these young people are just going to hang it up and docilely accept the new Mass as the only game in town?

  25. Gabriel Syme says:

    I think Bishop Baron is walking a tight line – he wants to be seen to adhere to Traditiones Custodes, but still make provision for the TLM faithful. The Chapel is undeniably attractive and not some dusty broom-cupboard of a place.

    While the outcome may seem to be bearable, it could be the case that the new location is difficult for some of the parishioners of the former parish (especially if they were already travelling some distance to get to the parish). And so there might be negative consequences for some people, unfortunately.

    The move to allow the SSPX to use the same Chapel is interesting and I think a sign that +Barron does actually care about people who attend the TLM.

    As well as giving the Society an option of location, it shows that he recognises their Catholicity and desires good relations with them. If the SSPX already has its own Chapel nearby, it is perhaps unlikely that they will use this one often – but it does raise the possibility that (for example) an SSPX priest could stand in for the Diocesan priest when he is on retreat, or ill, or whatever (and vice-versa).

    Where I live, its fairly common to find SSPX priests conducting funerals in Parish Churches. The Parish Priest usually comes to sit in choir in a sign of solidarity.

    While its positive to see a Bishop recognise and even involve the SSPX in his Diocese, this Vatican-directed harrassment of ordinary parishioners is really sad and oh so needless. Many of those people will have donated money and time to maintain, clean and beautify the Parish Church and now find themselves cast out – not a nice feeling, even if +Baron might have tried to sweeten the pill.

    This clear ghettoising and exclusion of TLM Catholics is at loggerheads with the “enlarge your tent” waffle coming out of the rigged synods. But then, overt hypocrisy has been a prominent plank of this Pontificate for some time.

  26. SwissMissTrad says:

    Regarding Bishop Barron’s invitation to the SSPX to also use the chapel, this is an extraordinary gesture on his part, indicating perhaps he has either been red-pilled as to the so-called “schism” of the SSPX or he has decided to apply a generous amount of ecumenism in the hopes of restoring them to “full communion.” In either case, we should give thanks to God for this overture. It will be interesting to see how some adversaries of the SSPX will respond to Bishop Barron in light of their recent public vitriol toward the SSPX and their priests.

  27. TheCavalierHatherly says:

    the Diocese is currently in the process “of discerning appropriate “locations where the faithful adherents of these groups may gather for the eucharistic celebration” which, as per the Vatican document Traditiones Custodes, are to be places other than parish churches”

    Translation: please financially support the parishes… wait, where are you going?

    Wiley Coyote Super Genius: https://youtu.be/STeVTzWelns

  28. surritter says:

    @Anita Moore, O.P.(lay),
    “Interestingly, Bishop Barron giving the SSPX permission to use a chapel comes in the midst of another wave of SSPX-is-in-schism hysteria.”
    You’re giving that website waaaaaay too much credit. Just because a particular “news” outlet has something in its teeth lately doesn’t mean that the entire Catholic words is abuzz about it.

  29. palestrinadei says:

    I pray for the people of Mankato that Bishop Barron finds a suitable place nearby to relocate their canceled Mass, as he has for the people of Winona.

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