ASK FATHER: If women can’t be priests, can they be deacons?

From a reader…

QUAERITUR:

I know women can’t become priests, but…can they become deacons?

The thought never entered my mind before, but upon gathering some resources for a friend who had asked why women cannot become priests, I found a video – “Why Women Can’t Be Ordained Priests” by Breaking in the Habit. It’s the first video I’ve ever listened to from the channel, so no idea as to how orthodox they are or not, but while they confirmed women cannot become priests, the friar/brother(?) made some claims about the possibility of one day women possibly being ordained deacons.

As a woman, I’m not personally in favor of this idea – I don’t understand the desire to have women be able to do EVERYTHING men can do, and visa versa – but it brought up an interesting question, and I wanted your thoughts on it.

I’ve dealt with this before.  Sadly, it keeps cropping up.

Women cannot be ordained to the diaconate.  The Franciscan in the video is wrong about the possibility of ordination of female deacons.  He correctly states that priesthood and diaconate are different.  He correctly states that the Church is explicit about the impossibility of ordaining women as priests.  But he then errs then in concluding that it is therefore possible for women to be ordained to the diaconate.

Just because there is no explicit document about diaconate, like Ordinatio sacerdotalis is explicit about priesthoodthat doesn’t mean that we can legitimately conclude that women can be ordained to the diaconate.  That’s a sort of “no news is good news” argument, which is a fallacy.  No news means no news.   It could in fact be that there a great many really bad things happening that are simply not being reported.  All we can conclude from the lack of a document about diaconate is that there isn’t a document about the diaconate.

Women cannot be ordained to any of the sacred Orders.  Lumen gentium28 reasserts that the Sacrament of Orders has three divinely established ministries. Since two (the priestly levels of bishop and priest) cannot be conferred on women, then neither can the third, diaconate.  The three are, as Lumen gentium describes, intimately related.

Because Orders is one sacrament and not three, women can’t be ordained.

The always invalid attempt to ordain a woman to any of the sacred orders incurs, by the very fact of the attempt, an excommunication. HERE  This is one of the rare instances of automatic or latae sententiae excommunication.  This sort of excommunication is applied for very grave sins.  It’s right up there with desecration of the Eucharist and the direct violation of the Seal of Confession. It is followed up with an explicit, declared excommunication.  The lifting of the excommunication is reserved to the Holy See alone.

The purpose of the censure is to bring the people back to their senses and to repentance and reconciliation as well as to let the faithful know that the sin must never be emulated (thus, to avoid scandal).

Some will say that, because Francis appointed a couple of committees to study the topic of female diaconate from historical and theological viewpoints, it must be possible.  No.  The fact that committees study questions doesn’t imply that it is possible.  It implies that the members are studying the topic.  The committees had/have zero authority to declare anything.

Some will say that there were female deacons (aka deaconesses or, more pleasantly “deaconettes”) in some places in the ancient Church.

Firstly, the practice was isolated and varying.  In fact, we don’t know what they were, though in general they were involved mostly with women, for obvious reasons.

Next, the practice quickly faded out, which sure means something.  Among other things, that suggests that engaging deaconettes was not of divine origin (as is the Sacrament of Orders).

Moreover, it is without question that when someone pushes for the ordination of women to the diaconate, the real objective is priesthood.  They can deny it all they want, but that’s what’s really going on.

The best thing written to date about women and the diaconate, Deaconesses: An Historical Study by Aime G. Martimort (French 1982 & English – Ignatius Press, 1986) [US HERE – UK HERE]

Martimort explains that there isn’t any reliable evidence for their early practice.  Moreover, they were explicitly forbidden from the 5th century onward.  In the 12th c. there was discussion of deaconettes in strict cloisters, but reading on in Martimort we find that even that seems dodgy.  Martimort concludes:

“Even though it is not always easy to fix the exact date of its desuetude in the various churches, it does seem pretty clear that, by the end of the tenth or eleventh centuries, deaconesses had pretty much disappeared in the East, even though the memory of them continued, anachronistically, to be revived in the recopying of liturgical books, and – in a defective and imprecise fashion – in the tradition of canonists.”

A former professor of mine in Rome, Fr. Giles Pelland, SJ explains:

In order to speak of a “tradition” or “practice” of the Church, it is not enough to point out a certain number of cases spread over a period of four or five centuries. One would have to show, insofar as one can, that these cases correspond to a practice accepted by the Church at the time. Otherwise, we would only have the opinion of a theologian (however prestigious), or information about a local tradition at a certain moment in its history—which obviously does not have the same weight.  (L’Osservatore Romano, English Edition, February 2, 2000, p. 9, quoted in the legendary “Five Cardinals Book”.)

In a nutshell, it is possible to find any number of isolated incidents of this or that aberrant practice in the ancient Church.

We see this in our own day.  Just because some group does or says X today doesn’t mean that it is – or was – accepted Catholic practice or teaching.  A serious problem arises when you try to found your arguments on those isolated aberrant practices as if they were accepted.

Oh… yes… there’s this.  From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1570 Deacons share in Christ’s mission and grace in a special way. The sacrament of Holy Orders marks them with an imprint (“character”) which cannot be removed and which configures them to Christ, who made himself the “deacon” or servant of all. Among other tasks, it is the task of deacons to assist the bishop and priests in the celebration of the divine mysteries, above all the Eucharist, in the distribution of Holy Communion, in assisting at and blessing marriages, in the proclamation of the Gospel and preaching, in presiding over funerals, and in dedicating themselves to the various ministries of charity.

So, deacons are ordained for various roles, including preaching.  However,

We read in 1 Cor 14:

As in all the churches of the saints, 34 the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. 35 If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.

How would that work out for deaconettes?

We can grant that Paul is writing to the Corinthians of his day, but that seems to be a pretty general principle, not meant for his time only and that place only.  Women cannot preach in the “churches”.  Ekklesia here surely means the assembly of Christians for worship, not just any gathering of Christians. Speaking here would then mean the vocal prayer and explanation of the Faith and exhortation to the Christian life: preaching.

In any event, no, there never have been truly, sacramentally ordained women deacons.  There aren’t any now, and there never will be any.  It’s impossible.  It seems to me so impossible that a group attempting such a thing probably would not be a real Church, in the sense that the Church intends by the word, laid out in Dominus Iesus.

Posted in "How To..." - Practical Notes, ASK FATHER Question Box, Deaconettes | Tagged , , ,
15 Comments

Daily Rome Shot 305

Photo by The Great Roman™

By FSSP seminarians

Posted in SESSIUNCULA | Tagged
4 Comments

Your Sunday Sermon Notes: 21st Sunday after Pentecost (29th Ordinary – N.O.)

Too many people today are without good, strong preaching, to the detriment of all. Share the good stuff.

Was there a GOOD point made in the sermon you heard at the Mass for your Sunday obligation (or, maybe still none), either live or on the internet? Let us know what it was.

What was attendance like?

Tell about attendance especially for the Traditional Latin Mass.  I was getting reports that it is way up.

Any local changes or news?

For those of you who regularly viewed my live-streamed daily Masses – with their fervorini – for over a year, you might drop me a line.  There are developments.

I have some remarks about the TLM – HERE

Posted in SESSIUNCULA | Tagged
9 Comments

Latin moments with St. Margaret Mary and St. Hedwig

Some people say there aren’t any important differences between the Vetus Ordo and the Novus Ordo, that they are pretty much the same.  Usually they fail to take into consideration the content of the orations.   Of course the differences in the orations are not structural differences.  That doesn’t mean that they are important.   The way we pray has a reciprocal relationship with what we believe.  Change the prayers, over time you change what people believe.

A priest friend of mine today made me aware of differences between the Collects today for St. Margaret Mary and St. Hedwig – on their common feast – in the Vetus and the Novus Ordo.

Some Latinists could jump in.

St. Margaret Mary:

Vetus Ordo

Domine Iesu Christe qui investigabiles divitias Cordis tui beatae Margaritae Mariae Virgini mirabiliter revelasti: da nobis eius meritis et imitatione; ut te in omnibus et super omnia diligentes iugem in eodem Corde tuo mansionem habere mereamur:

Novus Ordo (new composition for the 1970MR)

Effúnde super nos, quaesumus, Dómine, spíritum quo beátam Margarítam Maríam singuláriter ditásti, ut scire valeámus supereminéntem sciéntiæ caritátem Christi et impleámur in omnem plenitúdinem Dei. Per Dóminum …

And for St. Hedwig:

Vetus Ordo

Deus, qui beátam Hedwígem a saeculi pompa ad húmilem tuæ crucis sequélam toto corde transíre docuísti: concéde; ut eius méritis et exémplo discámus peritúras mundi calcáre delícias, et in ampléxu tuæ crucis ómnia nobis adversántia superáre:

Novus Ordo (was in the 1962MR)

Concéde, quaesumus, omnípotens Deus, ut veneránda nobis beátæ Hedwígis intercéssio tríbuat cæléste subsídium, cuius vita mirábilis ómnibus humilitátis præstat exémplum.

Posted in SESSIUNCULA | Tagged
3 Comments

ASK FATHER: Can a bishop forbid people from attending Masses of the SSPX?

From a reader…

QUAERITUR:

I was wondering if the diocesan ordinary has the authority to forbid the faithful from attending a particular mass. A common example of this would be the masses celebrated by the SSPX. Though the canonical status of the society has been clarified much in recent years, many bishops still say that the faithful cannot attend their masses at all. Thanks in advance.

Bishops have very few checks on them, very little oversight.  Rome nearly always rubber-stamps unjust decisions of liberal-minded bishops.  Thus, they can get away with a lot.  A bishop can try to get people to believe that he has the authority to forbid things through letters that make it seem like he has that authority.  A close reading of some restrictive episcopal edicts quickly reveals that bishops are really expressing their personal preferences rather than anything based in law.  They sound really official, but in the end, they are suggestions, not legitimate commands.

We have to read “decrees” carefully to find what they really say and don’t say, and then interpret laws that place restrictions as favorably for people as possible.

Let us also remember that bishops can hurt priests in a thousand ways.  Priests often don’t want to deal with the fallout that will come from a harsh bishop so they keep their heads down.

Rome has provided that the faithful can to go priests of the SSPX for sacramental confession and be validly absolved.  Rome has provided that priests of the SSPX can receive faculties to witness marriages.  Rome also explicitly said that the priest can celebrate the Nuptial Mass!

It doesn’t make any sense at all that people can go to these priests for confession and to be married, but then they would have to leave before Mass began.    If people can be at a Nuptial Mass, how can it bef wrong for them to be at a regular Mass?

Yes, people can attend Masses at SSPX chapels.  They can fulfill their Sunday obligation with such Masses.  They can, and should (out of justice – because they’ve received a service), give something in the collection.

If the SSPX priest says stupid things in the pulpit or displays an improper attitude about the Faith or towards people, they should be treated as at any other place, canonically without question or not: people should go elsewhere.

However, in the main, yes, people can go to Masses of the SSPX, especially if the local bishop has been harsh in restricting use the the pre-Conciliar Missal, thus diminishing the opportunties to attend Mass in the Vetus Ordo.

I wouldn’t say that about “independent” chapels or about true sedevacantists.

 

Posted in "How To..." - Practical Notes, ASK FATHER Question Box, SSPX | Tagged
9 Comments

Daily Rome Shot 304

Photo by The Great Roman™

Posted in SESSIUNCULA | Tagged
1 Comment

Episcopal cathedral in Albuqerque to insult the Church by hosting a fake ordination of a Jesuit-trained “wymyn”. Wherein Fr. Z makes a proposal.

Fishwrap (aka National Schismatic Reporter, like a schismatic jackhammer, keeps pounding away.

How is it that the US Bishops have not yet demanded that they remove the word “Catholic” from their title?  They were already told by the local bishops where their abatoir is located.

Are they… afraid?

Here’s Fishwrap today:

Future womanpriest ‘Father Anne’ blames God for leading her towards ordination

When asked why she has chosen to be ordained as a Roman Catholic priest [Note how the false premise (that a woman can be ordained to any order of Holy Orders) is simply accepted by the Fishwrap writer?] — thus breaking the Catholic Church’s ban on the ordination of women and crossing the threshold of formal excommunication — Anne Tropeano’s response is simple.  [As opposed to informal?]

“God is asking me to do this,” she says. “God is calling me to be ordained in the Roman Catholic tradition and to work for justice.”  [Maybe.. just maybe… it’s just you and not God.  What she does understand is that “vocation” actually happens during the ordination when your name is called by someone with authority to do so.]

Tropeano, whose use of the moniker “Father Anne” has helped attract wide coverage of her coming Oct. 16 ordination ceremony from various secular media outlets, including The New Yorker magazine, portrays her choice as part of a long spiritual journey.  [Not all journey’s are good journey’s.  There are, in fact, “bad trips”.]

Though she received the sacraments as a child, Tropeano was not raised in the church and did not begin to practice the faith until her late 20s, when she went through the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults. [Wait for it…]

“I moved to Portland with a band I was managing, and it was there, while attending a Jesuit parish, that the call emerged,” Tropeano said in a recent NCR interview. “The Jesuits took me under their wing. [DING DING… Say the magic word…] I began to pray, do retreats and become active in the parish community.”

The Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius “changed me profoundly and forever,” said Tropeano, whose ordination is being organized by the Association of Roman Catholic [Not] Womenpriests.

Part of a movement that began in 2002 with the [non] ordination of seven women by a Catholic bishop in a clandestine ceremony on the Danube River, the association is one of two such groups of women claiming apostolic succession. They say there are now [not] some 250 ordained women worldwide.

The official [yawn] Catholic Church disputes their claims. In his 1994 apostolic letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, Pope John Paul II said, “the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women.” Pope Francis further codified the church’s stance this June, updating canon law to reflect a 2007 decree that women who are ordained be automatically excommunicated.

Tropeano’s ordination is scheduled to occur at the Episcopal Cathedral of St. John in Albuquerque, New Mexico.  [What an insulting middle-finger to the Church. Let’s see of the local Archbishop reacts to this astonishing insult.]

She portrayed the Jesuits’ influence on her as fundamental[Funda – mental]

“They taught me to pray,” she said. [Pray to….?] “That was when I heard a call — not just to be a priest, but specifically a Jesuit priest. [Wow.] How could God be calling me to do something impossible?”

Tropeano began doing pastoral ministry, but that was not enough to satisfy her call. At age 40 she began studies at the Jesuit School of Theology in Berkeley, California, which is now part of Santa Clara University.

[…]

Really sad person.

Very sad publication.

On the other hand….

Think this through.

The Jesuits allow only men in their ranks.

Jesuits are among the most visible of discrimination against women in the entire Church!

It would be a matter of social justice, diversity, accompaniment, discernment and even “walking together” for the Jesuits to embrace this “ordination”, participate in it, and get some Jesuit bishop to do the ordination at the Episcopal cathedral for the sake of ecumenism… among… non-Catholics!

We demand – Pachamama demands – that the Jesuits put to right all these centuries of discrimination!

Francis must ACT and ACT NOW!   In a way, she embodies what you are all pushing!

 

Posted in Jesuits, Liberals, You must be joking! | Tagged ,
40 Comments

More (bad) news about the Philadelphia Carmel

Some months ago we read about the travails of the grand Carmel in Philadelphia, established shortly after the dies natalis of St. Therese di Lisieux.

At LifeSite we now read what we suspected:

Vatican on the verge of closing down traditional Carmelite monastery in Philadelphia

Be careful with that headline, but the subheaders says: “all indications point to Rome uprooting traditional orders”.

Indications aren’t necessarily proofs. However, there is an Italian proverb, “Non c’è fumo senza arrosto.”

So…

According to several sources, the Vatican is attempting to shut down the Carmelite monastery in Philadelphia that had been the cradle of devotion to St. Therese of Lisieux in the early 20th century.

The Carmel had been languishing from the fact of an aging communinity and lack of younger blood. Other Carmels sent nuns to the rescue and brought a great sense of Tradtion and the TTLM. The Carmel began to recover.

The there was a document from the Holy See’s Congregation for Religious, Cor orans, that required various houses to be associated in larger associations. At the time, many of us knew that this would be used to crush the houses that were flourishing because of Traditional spirituality.

[…]

Father Maximilian Dean recounted in the recent LifeSite interview that the younger nuns made sacrifices to move to urban Philadelphia after having lived in calm and rural surroundings. But then they faced several obstacles from incoming Archbishop Nelson J. Perez (but most probably not upon his own initiative).

The younger nuns were told that they could not live according to their own traditions and rites – as it had been previously promised to them under Chaput – but that they had to adapt to new styles as prescribed by an association of Carmelite orders, the St. Joseph Association, that the Philadelphia Carmel had entered after the publication of Pope Francis’ new document Cor Orans, which called upon contemplative monasteries to join larger associations.

Father Maximilian explained that these circumstances made it clear the young nuns could not stay and so they left on April 9 with tears and also with some joy.

The Mother Superior, who is now alone in the Philadelphia monastery, still receives kind and generous assistance from lay people.

The Carmelite nuns described the events in a June 19 letter to their friends as follows:

For many years, the Philadelphia Carmel had been part of an association. When our Nuns arrived, it was assumed that withdrawing from this association would be a small matter. After all, the Nuns had been invited by the community and the Archdiocese of Philadelphia with the clear understanding that they were part of a young, thriving, dedicated Order who loved the Extraordinary Form of the Holy Mass and the time-honored traditions of the Discalced Carmelites. As attempts were being made to not only interfere with but to obstruct their way of life, the Nuns tried one way after another to gracefully bow out of this pre-existing commitment. When it became painfully clear that the freedom to maintain their identity as originally promised by the Archdiocese was not being honored, the only option left to the Nuns was to return to the monastery in Valparaiso, Nebraska. They did this in the most correct way possible, fulfilling all canonical requirements.

As it becomes clear, the Archdiocese would rather allow the Carmel of Philadelphia to be shut down than to encourage the development of a traditional community of Carmelite nuns.

[…]

There’s the paradigm of this regime’s Great Leap Forward… into nothingness.

They would rather see the Carmel die out and that there should be nothing rather than allow them simply to live the way they want.  Since that way includes Tradition, they have to die.

It would probably be convenient for the powers that be to shut the whole thing down, strip all the architectural elements and stone out of the chapel, sell them off at an enormous profit and then liquidate the hulk.

Like Planned Parenthood does with baby parts.

Posted in New catholic Red Guards, Pò sì jiù, The Coming Storm, The future and our choices, Women Religious | Tagged , ,
31 Comments

Daily Rome Shot 303

Photo by The Great Roman™

OPPORTUNITY
10% off with code: FATHERZ10

Posted in SESSIUNCULA | Tagged
3 Comments

The Horan of Babylon on “Why Catholics should use preferred gender pronouns and names”

Just when I think I’ve successfully gotten away, the Fishwrap keeps pulling me back in to its feverswamp.

This from Daniel P. Horan (aka The Horan of Babylon):

Why Catholics should use preferred gender pronouns and names

His deeply thought through piece suggests this is appropriate for Catholics because God changed the names of Abraham and Sarah, Saul became Paul, and because sometimes people call him “Dan”.

I am not making this up.

He connects resistance to such a practice to transphobia and the way the Chinese are persecuting the Uyghurs and how slave owners named their slaves.

In short, if you don’t use gender neutral pronouns, you are committing a human rights violation.

This is so wierd that you will be tempted to re-read parts just to be sure he really wrote it and then let people see it.

The Horan hints at rude behaviour by refusing to address clergy properly:

Perhaps some kind of nonviolent civil (or maybe better put, ecclesial) disobedience might help our fellow Christians — especially those in positions of leadership and authority in the church — get a taste of their own medicine and experience a small piece of the shame, disrespect and dehumanization such unethical practices place on others.

I wonder how he would react to a suggestion that Catholics should simply ignore Francis’s cruelty and multiply celebrations of the TLM?

Chad Pecknold applies some common sense.

Here is a recent “cum canibus concumbunt” tweet”:

It seems that The Horan is no longer at that bastion of mediocrity and equivocation Catholic Thelogical Union in Chicago and has moved to St. Mary’s in Indiana (which I, alas, had never heard of).  His latest book: A White Catholic’s Guide to Racism and Privilege.   Gotta run out and buy that one!   If you do, please use my amazon affiliate link.  Thanks in advance.

 

Posted in Liberals, Sin That Cries To Heaven, You must be joking! | Tagged
29 Comments