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Summorum Pontificum and the D. of Chicoutimi, Canada: update
Regular WDTPRS readers will recall the hostile reception of Summorum Pontificum in the Diocese of Chicoutimi in Canada.
I have an update.
A reader sent this:
I have been following your blog with interest for some time now.Shall we have a look at the summary? My emphases and comments.
I read your post about the Diocese of Chicoutimi and its persistent refusal to allow Summorum Pontificum to be implemented (although, as we both know, no permission is required from the diocese as of September 14, 2007). Those of the faithful who desire the Forma Extraordinaria have a blog, on which I just read an interesting post. The parish priest of the Cathedral used last Sunday’s Masses to preach against the TLM with great force. His "homily" is posted on the site along with a short resumé. Seeing as it is in French, I have taken the liberty to translate the summary of what was said into English. I am sending you the translation as an attached file. You can read the original summary (and/or listen to the "homily" in French) if you understand that language.
The original post in French is dated Sunday, August 3 2008. It is entitled, "Le curé de la cathédrale prêche contre la Messe tridentine".
The Parish Priest of the Cathedral [of Chicoutimi] Preaches Against the Tridentine MassIt would be interesting to hear the audio of the whole sermon. Here it is. I had to enhance the sound and stitch it together. It is in French, and the audio quality is not great. It was also, annoyingly, broken up into sections.
The parish priest of the Cathedral of Chicoutimi, Fr. Gaetan Thibeault, preached against the Tridentine Mass at all four Sunday Masses: those of 8:30, 10:00 and 11:15 a.m. on Sunday morning, as well as the Saturday evening Mass at 7:15 p.m.
He began by saying, "Allow me this morning to give not a homily, but to enlighten you in regards to a request that was made by a group of people in the diocese."
The parish priest denounced the group from Chicoutimi by affirming that "those who signed the request do not respect authority, because they continue to desire the Tridentine Mass." [Apparently to desire the older form of Mass is now a way of lacking respect for authority. What sort of "authority" would assert that?] He added that "it is the bishop who is responsible for pastoral activity and for the liturgy in his diocese." He then declared, "The Pope is not the universal bishop; he is the bishop of Rome! And Bishop Rivest is not the vicar of the Pope; he is the bishop of Chicoutimi!" [I am pretty sure that this observation will be passed along by my Roman readers.]
Fr. Thibeault also affirmed that the group’s Internet site shows lack of respect towards authority, caricaturing Bishop Rivest as a man with horns [i.e. the Devil]. [If that were true, it would be reprehensible. However, I could not find any representation of the local bishop with horns. I did see a graphic that the Devil hates Latin, but I think that can’t be honestly associated with Bishop Rivest.] But what he failed to mention was that this was not the work of the group from Chicoutimi; it was done by a group of Spanish-speaking people.
He also stated, "Our bishop would surely not like me to say such things, because he is a good man."
Fr. Thibeault then went on to give a short course in the liturgy, wherein he praised Vatican II and concluded by saying, "most people who are attached to Tradition are insecure and incapable of adapting to the modern world." [Rather insulting.]
He also affirmed that "most of those who made the request [for the Forma Extraordinaria] are between 20 and 30 years old; thus, they are people who do not know Latin and who seemingly do not know the Tridentine liturgy." [Apart from my shock that any priest would not be delighted at the interest of young people in anything Catholic, this is a false argument. The Holy Father clearly issued Summorum Pontificum also for young people. Furthermore, they are merely asking for something that is their right to experience: the Roman Rite.]
Fr. Thibeault stated as well that "the Tridentine Mass is not all that traditional after all, since before the Council of Trent, there existed other forms of celebration, and the manner in which the Apostles celebrated [Holy Mass] is totally unknown to us." [An embarrasingly inept argument. First, no one really calls this the "Tridentine" Mass anymore. Also, the form of Mass codified after the Council of Trent was in use with very few changes from 1570-1969, so it is hard to understand what could be more traditional from our perspective. Furthermore, it matters not a whit how the Apostles celebrated Mass. We are not archeologists. We are interested in the forms of Mass we can legitmately use today. The older form is a modern form.]
He also declared, concerning the Traditional Mass: "If I asked you to raised your hand, those who desire it [the TLM], I am not sure that there would be many of you with your hand raised."
Fr. Thibeault considers it a threat, the fact that the members of the Group claimed that they will have recourse to Rome for their request! [People have rights. One of their rights is that they always have recourse to legitimate authority. If they think the local pastor and bishop are not giving them their due, they have the right to go to Rome. Also, Summorum Pontificum establishes the recourse to Rome as a legitimate option.]
He stated, "You know, I’m 65 years old, and I never celebrated the Mass of St. Pius V", thereby implying that the Tridentine Mass was a thing of the past. [And anyone listening can response, "So what? This is not about you."]
An important point to note: Fr. Thibeault has, however, celebrated "alternative masses".
This is STUNNING.
A priest of the Roman Catholic Church preaching from the Pulpit against the Holy Father. Luther is reborn among us.
I don’t have the words right now to express my sadness at this. I am thinking giving up the news and the internet all together. At a famous Catholic forum I was called a heretic and a schismatic for supporting the Holy Father and his agenda.
This from otherwise faithful Catholics. Online communication only amplifies and makes less civil what people really think (and what they cannot say in person).
I fear there is DEEP animosity against the Holy Father and tradition.
I can’t understand what is going on. Why are these people so disloyal to the Holy Father?
Why?
And why does the priest hate beauty so much? The TLM is all about beauty… and truth.
Why?
Comment by cathguy — 6 August 2008 @ 2:45 pmThis guy is still stuck in the 70’s! Talk about not adapting to the modern world.
Still, I think people who say such idiotic things have it backwards, the modern world is insecure and scared of Catholicism.
Comment by athanasius — 6 August 2008 @ 2:47 pmQuote: He stated, “You know, I’m 65 years old, and I never celebrated the Mass of St. Pius V”,
I cannot but be reminded of the last part of Apoc. 12.12: “... for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows his time is short!”
Perhaps Father ought to read Lumen Gentium 22 where one finds: “The pope’s power of primacy over all, both pastors and faithful, remains whole and intact. In virtue of his office, that is as Vicar of Christ and pastor of the whole Church, the Roman Pontiff has full, supreme and universal power over the Church. And he is always free to exercise this power.”
Also, LG 24: “The canonical mission of bishops … or directly through the successor of Peter himself; and if the latter refuses or denies apostolic communion, such bishops cannot assume any office.”
Comment by Aelric — 6 August 2008 @ 3:03 pm“The Pope is not the universal bishop….” To claim that the pope is not Universal Pastor and does not enjoy universal jurisdiction is pure heresy! While accusing the faithful of disobeying the local bishop, the priest sees no sin in setting himself against the Successor of Peter! And that he still calls himself a Roman Catholic priest is beyond comprehension!
Comment by Theodorus — 6 August 2008 @ 3:15 pmI pray that Fr. Thibeault will see the Truth in
Comment by Derik Castillo — 6 August 2008 @ 3:16 pmSummorum Pontificum.
I am flabbergasted. I thought Fr. Brennan of Holy Family in Inverness was bad… this priest, though, floors me.
Comment by Jeff Pinyan — 6 August 2008 @ 3:21 pmI would like to comment on the question above, an excellent question, as to why a priest, or a bishop, or a layperson may hate “beauty”. The hatred of beauty connected with the hatred of the intellectual life are fall-outs from the anti-intellectual, minimalistic stands of the “Reformers” of the Protestant Revolt. The horses taken into the sanctuaries in England at Fountains Abbey,for example, were forced to trod on the Eucharist, as a matter of Protestant political agenda. The stained glass taught the Tradition of the Catholic Church, the music in the chant proclaimed the connection to the apostles, and the Eucharist, as the Presence of God, represented God’s Ever-Presence in the Catholic Church. Beauty, as an attribute of God, leads one to Truth and Love, and the beauty found in the ancient monastic and other foundations in Europe had to be destroyed so that the Truth was obscured and Love confounded.
The people learned from the architecture and the surrounding beauty of art and music. They learned the Scriptures and the Teachings of the Catholic Church. Only a great saint such as St. Bernard of Clairvaux, who had Beauty in his heart and preached on beauty and love could afford the minimalist architecture of the Cistercians. Most of us are not so close to God that we do not need these physical, yetsublime reminders of Heaven. And, St. Bernard had the Latin Mass and the chant….
The hatred of Beauty is a hatred of the Church as the Bride of Christ. If one denies the authority of the Pope, one has accepted the lies of the Reformation, sadly. Beauty and Truth are connected intimately in the Traditional Latin Mass, which is God’s gift to us,to draw us ever closer to Him. I shall pray for the sad prelate who hates God’s representative on earth and the manifestation of Beauty, which is from God Himself. St. Augustine stated, “Too late, O Ancient beauty, have I loved Thee.” He also noted that the love was the beauty of the soul. I hope the moment to see the Ancient Beauty as found in the Traditional Latin Mass does not escape this bishop or us.
Comment by Supertradmom — 6 August 2008 @ 3:32 pmAnd nothing will be done, unless all this is clearly spelled out, in writing,
with backup documentation, and sent to the proper dicastries in all due respect
requesting clarification and discipline.
We can rail about it all we want, but the ‘net’ (which first came online in 1992
on this date, believe it or not…when the first website was erected…) is still
considered a specious method of publicity, especially when there is little firm
and detailed documentation.
I’d suggest that the folks involved keep this in mind, and assemble their dossier
on this incident, and then forward their rightful requests that their rights be
respected to Rome.
If not…it’s just tilting at windmills, and the evil one will continue to destroy what’s
Comment by bryan — 6 August 2008 @ 3:38 pmleft of the Church in Quebec.
The sermon is to be found on the other link ‘a blog’ but as Fr Z says the sound quality is bad, too much echo and with a possibly Canadian accent I found it impossible to follow.
Comment by pelerin — 6 August 2008 @ 3:41 pmAnd, as the descendent of French Canadians, thinking of my grandparents attending daily
Comment by bryan — 6 August 2008 @ 3:56 pmMass at Ste. Anne’s Shrine in Fall River, observence of Holy Days, the feast of Ste. Anne’s
observances, attending Mass at Notre Dame in Montreal, processions, and my grandmere’s
attachment to Ste Anne de Beaupre’...it makes me sad to realize how far they have fallen.
I too am having trouble with the mp3 file
Comment by WDPRSer — 6 August 2008 @ 4:08 pmAn important point to note: Fr. Thibeault has, however, celebrated “alternative masses”.
What is an alternative mass?????????????
Comment by Humilitas — 6 August 2008 @ 4:16 pmI don’t speak French (more out of conviction than ability) so I hope some of the franciphones from this site would email or post to that blog showing our solidarity and prayers for their cause. As I have stated repeatedly here, we in the archdiocese of San Francisco (noticeably larger and more populated than Chicoutimi).
Comment by Deusdonat — 6 August 2008 @ 4:23 pmI’m 29 years old and i never go to a Novus ordo mass, then the Novus ordo mass is old? This guy is simple an old Hippie.
Comment by Antonio — 6 August 2008 @ 4:24 pmAthanasius’ diagnosis is correct but terminology (“idiotic”) is not usual in theological mannuals; possibly in modern ones only.
Comment by Michael — 6 August 2008 @ 4:50 pm“The Pope is not the universal bishop; he is the bishop of Rome! And Bishop Rivest is not the vicar of the Pope; he is the bishop of Chicoutimi!”
Comment by Tridentine Catholic — 6 August 2008 @ 4:51 pmShocking Heresy! May The Bishop of Rome exercise his authority on all of them!
This guy is very funny, he said: “most people who are attached to Tradition are insecure and incapable of adapting to the modern world.”
I use computers, read blogs, emails. I ride a bike, I’m living in a city whit 20 millions of people and speak several modern languages. But how I like the Gregorian rite I’m insecure and incapable of adapting to the modern world.
Comment by Antonio — 6 August 2008 @ 4:56 pmFor a priest in such a prominent position to get into the pulpit and preach something like this there must be more than hippy nostalgia at work. He’s running scared and in his panic he’s clutching at straws – even to the point of heresy. The man is 65 – he was probably ordained 40 years ago (guessing) – wasn’t the Church in a transitional stage back then, liturgically speaking? This priest may not have even said the Mass of Pope John XXIII though he would have learned it in seminary. It’s unspeakable that he should force a captive audience to listen to this tirade.
As a great woman once said “I’m tired of you liberal church… you’re sick.”
There’s no remedy for this modernistic nonsense, though the words ‘cleansing’ and ‘Augean stables’ come to mind. The Bible verses that sprang to my mind are these:
Jesus spoke this parable: “A man had a fig tree growing in his vineyard, and he came out looking for fruit on it but did not find any. he said to the vine dresser, ‘Look here! for three years now I have come in search of fruit on this fig tree and found none. Cut it down. Why should it clutter up the ground?’ In answer, the man said ‘Sir, leave it another year while I hoe around it and manure it; then perhaps it will bear fruit. if not, it shall be cut down.’