“The Anglican experiment is over.”

I once knew limerick, a clean limerick that began something like…

There was once Bishop of Chichester,
who three times repeated things, which is ter

I don’t remember the rest.

But I did find this interesting from the Telegraph with my emphases and comments.

Senior Anglican bishop reveals he is ready to convert to Roman Catholicism

The Rt Rev John Hind, the Bishop of Chichester, has announced he is considering becoming a Roman Catholic in a move that could spark an exodus of clergy.
 
By Jonathan Wynne-Jones, Religious Affairs Correspondent
Published: 9:50PM BST 24 Oct 2009

Bishop Hind said he would be "happy" to be reordained as a Catholic priest and said that divisions in Anglicanism could make it impossible to stay in the church.

He is the most senior Anglican to admit that he is prepared to accept the offer from the Pope, who shocked the Church of England last week when he paved the way for clergy to convert to Catholicism in large numbers.
 
In a further blow to the Archbishop of Canterbury’s hopes of preventing the Anglican Communion from disintegrating, other bishops have cast doubt over its survival.

The Rt Rev John Broadhurst, the Bishop of Fulham, even claimed that "the Anglican experiment is over". He said it has been shown to be powerless to cope with the crises over gays and women bishops.  [Because they caved in to the world.]

In one of the most significant developments since the Reformation, the Pope [of Christian Unity] last week announced that a new structure would be set up to allow disaffected Anglicans to enter full communion with Rome, while maintaining parts of their Protestant heritage.

The move comes after secret talks between the Vatican and a group of senior Anglican bishops. Dr Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, was not informed of the meetings and his advisers even denied that they had taken place when the Sunday Telegraph broke the story last year.

Now Bishop Hind, the most senior traditionalist in the Church of England, has confirmed that he is willing to sacrifice his salary and palace residence to defect to the Catholic Church. [defect!  HA!  I say "he willing to sacrifice to PERfect the Catholic Church!"]

[...]

"Anglicanism has become a joke because it has singularly failed to deal with any of its contentious issues," said the bishop, who is chairman of Forward in Faith, the Anglo-Catholic network that represents around 1,000 traditionalist priests.

"There is widespread dissent across the [Anglican] Communion. We are divided in major ways on major issues and the Communion has unravelled.

"I believed in the Church I joined, but [wait for it...] it has been revealed to have no doctrine of its own.

"I personally think it has gone past the point of no return. The Anglican experiment is over."

The Rt Rev Martyn Jarrett, the Bishop of Beverley, also said there were questions over the church’s survival, adding that the Church of England has changed too dramatically for some traditionalists.

"They are beginning to reflect that the theological position of the Church isn’t what they believe," he said.

"The offer from the Vatican is momentous and I felt a great sense of gratitude that the Roman Catholic Church is thinking about the position of traditionalist Anglicans."

Clergy at the Forward in Faith conference, which met in Westminster yesterday, expressed relief that the Pope had provided them with an escape route.

Fr Ed Tomlinson, vicar of St Barnabas, Tunbridge Wells, said that he would be following the lead of Bishop Hind.

"The ship of Anglicanism seems to be going down," he said. "We should be grateful that a lifeboat has been sent.

"I shall be seeking to move to Rome. To stay in the Church of England would be suicide."

The Anglican experiment is over."

[Remember, folks.  This "life boat", this "safe zone" is not only from the liberal Anglican bishops demolishing their church.  It is also from liberal Catholic bishops who are trying to demolish their own church.  And the entrance to the life boat, the safe zone, has a price.  Submission.]

Hundreds of traditionalist clergy could join the exodus, though most are waiting for the exact details of the new apostolic constitution to be published.

Battles lie ahead over whether priests who leave to join the Catholic Church will be allowed to take their churches with them, but some bishops have already warned against property seizure.

Dr Williams was only informed of the details of the Pope’s decree last weekend and is understood to have been "implacably opposed" to the move.

Lord Carey, the former Archbishop of Canterbury, said he was "appalled" that his successor was given such short notice and was excluded from discussions on the issue.

The Rt Rev Gregory Cameron, Bishop of St Asaph and a close colleague of Dr Williams, said that the archbishop was likely to be saddened by the developments.

"Rowan has worked very hard for unity both within the Anglican Communion, and with Rome, and I suspect he may feel that what has happened is little short of a betrayal, not by the Catholic Church, but by some of those in his own ranks.[I remind you: Some will claim that Pope Benedict's move is not real ecumenism.  But it is.]

"He is likely to be saddened that they felt driven to seek such a radical solution and that some of them now feel they have to go."  [If they felt driven it is because YOU DROVE THEM.  Don't you get it?]

"Up until now, the Roman Catholic Church has been putting its weight behind Rowan, but now it is appearing to put its weight behind the conservative groups it can most easily win over."  [Look at the liberal slam.]

"The danger is that they’ll have every disaffected Anglican beating down the pathway to their door and asking for special treatment."  [This is very telling.  More on this below.]

The Sunday Telegraph can disclose that the planning behind last week’s announcement began in 2006, when the Pope asked the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith to consider how they could invite Anglicans into the Roman Catholic fold.

He had reached out to disillusioned Anglicans three years earlier, when as head of the Congregation, the most powerful of the Vatican’s departments and successor to the medieval Inquisition, he wrote a personal letter to Anglicans in America. He reassured them of the Catholic Church’s support of their stand against the liberal tide.

Holy Mother Church is not a Church of the pure or perfect. 

Holy Church is not so much a gallery of saints as a hospital for sinners.

Give us your driven, your disaffected.

Come to us, you who are driven and disaffected.

The Pope of Christian Unity has made some provisions for you.

That’s what real Popes do.

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43 Responses to “The Anglican experiment is over.”

  1. Sixupman says:

    Some years ago the English & Welsh Bishops’ Conference issued a document stating that one could fulfil one’s Sunday/Holyday Duty by attendance at any old CofE church or Non-Conformist chapel. I don’t think they had this in mind. The hierarchy, here, are possessed of a singular tendency to deny their catholic heritage and even their solemn vows of ordination and consecration. Perhaps they should move over to the CofE and let us get on with the return to sanity.

  2. geoff jones says:

    I do wonder though, if Pope had let Williams know earlier about his intentions whether he might be more amenable, say, to letting Church buildings go.

    Perhaps Her Majesty QEII could be persuaded to make that call and return some pre-refo Churches to the Catholic Church?

  3. Vianney33 says:

    “The ship of Anglicanism seems to be going down,” he said.
    “We should be grateful that a lifeboat has been sent.”

    I love this analogy. It reminds me of St. John Bosco’s dream
    about the one large ship being attacked by many smaller ships. It seems some
    on one of those smaller ships will be climbing up a rope onto the big ship.
    Can we be so lucky that some on the big one jump ship? Arghhh! I say our
    captain makes them walk the plank. He would be the one who was formerly head
    of “the medieval Inquisition”. How many times must we read this?
    Can we call these writers the “scribes”?

  4. JARay says:

    Talking to a fellow parishoner only yesterday she said that she could not understand what the big deal is all about. I told her that the Anglicans who ‘come over’ would be able to carry on with their own structure within the Catholic Church. They would be united with us, but, in a way, not part of us. Then she began to see that it really is a big deal. Their priests would become real priests who really will be able to change the bread and the wine into the Body and Blood of Jesus, and they really will be able to forgive sins. It is a really big deal.

  5. PJ says:

    “Come to us, you who are driven and disaffected.

    The Pope of Christian Unity has made some provisions for you.

    That’s what real Popes do.”

    Well said. I love this blog.

  6. asperges says:

    Having looked up the possible limerick to which you alluded, I can only offer the following, which I hope will not offend:

    “The Bishop of Chichester said
    With the Romans I’ll now lie a-bed;
    For the state of my Church
    Left us all in the lurch –
    With true doctrine now let us be fed!”

  7. stephenocist says:

    I listened to the Bishop of Chichester’s entire address online yesterday. To my ear, he said nothing definite about converting at present and much about the legacy of ARCIC and the need to bring the whole C of E to communion with Rome. You have to hear how Anglicans talk about unity with Rome correctly–imagine hyper-understated Romanitas. I’m

    The good news is that the Bishops of Ebbsfleet and Richborough were clearer that they’re going.

    Here’s my take on yesterday’s Forward in Faith National Assembly in London:

    http://subtuum.blogspot.com/2009…d-in- faith.html

  8. Dear Fr. Zuhlsdorf,

    I am very attracted by your “Pope of Christian Unity” initiative, and am trying to figure out how best to participate in it.

    I am perplexed by one thing, though: is not the Petrine office essentially an office of unity? If so, would not the diction, “Pope of Christian Unity” be redundant, or at least tautological? [Not when the concept of "unity" has been compromised.]

    Now I hear you say, “That is what real popes do.” [It is.]

    This could be used, or taken to cast doubt on the legitimacy of popes who did not take measures similar to those Pope Benedict has taken with and for the (soon to be – laudetur!) Anglican Use Catholics. [No, not really. Popes build on the bricks laid down by previous Popes.]

    My purpose is not to cavil, but to refine: might a diction such as, “Pope Benedict XVI is (or understnads that as Peter’s Successor and Christ’s Vicar on Earth, he is) the ‘servant of Christian unity’,” [Yah.. that's easy to remember.] be at least equally effective for publicity purposes, and arguably more ecclesiologically informative (insofar as it explains the purpose of the Petrine office, and expresses PBXVI’s sensitivity and sensibility in this regard)?

    [Benedict is the Pope of Christian Unity.]

    Best,
    C.

  9. ssoldie says:

    Waiting for the ‘exact details’ makes good sense to me also, we should all be doing that.

  10. jaykay says:

    It will be interesting for us who live in Ireland to see how this pans out. Ireland has the oldest Anglican church (Church of Ireland) outside those of the island of Britain itself. Quite honestly, I can’t see it having much effect here. The C of I is overwhelmingly Low Church/evangelical and it’s still pretty “solid” doctrinally. Although it has had women ministers since the 90s as far as I know there’s no push for women Bishops, and it hasn’t been affected by these issues of homosexuality etc. All in all it’s quite like the more conservative branches of Lutheranism, and I couldn’t see any great exodus to us. Of course, given that it is numerically largest in Ulster there would be strong political/cultural forces against any such moves. And, although I probably shouldn’t say it, it’s a bit of a social/class thing as well.

  11. ncstevem says:

    Father and those on here in the know better than I – What parts of their protestant heritage will the Anglicans be able to maintain? Is that really a good thing? Shouldn’t they accept all Catholic traditions when they decide to convert?

    Thanks.

  12. becket1 says:

    He may convert. But he won’t be able to take the Cathedral, which is the property of the Realm, or his diocese.

  13. Dear ncstevem,

    I think Pope Benedict XVI made the point more eloquently than any of us in his homily at Vespers marking the Feast of the COnversion of St Paul and the close of the Week of Prayer for Christian Unity:

    “[O]ur prayer for unity and for peace asks always to be proven by courageous gestures of reconciliation among us Christians. I am thinking still of the Holy Land: how important it is that the faithful who live there, as well as the pilgrims who go there, offer to all the witness that diversity of rites and of traditions should not constitute an obstacle to mutual respect and fraternal charity. In the legitimate diversity of the various traditions we must seek unity in the faith, through our fundamental “yes” to Christ and to his one Church. In this way diversity will no longer be an obstacle that separates us, but an enrichment through the multiple expressions of the common faith.”

  14. thereseb says:

    “one could fulfil one’s Sunday/Holyday Duty by attendance at any old CofE church”

    That is outrageous – when was this?

    Re the Church of Ireland – a few years ago a RC Priest and CI vicar “concelebrated” the “Eucharist” – and there was considerable political and religious fallout (suspensions etc).

  15. shane says:

    Actually no suspensions were given to Fr Iggy O’ Donovan, who concelebrated that Mass in Drogheda (to commemorate the 1916 Rising), but he did get a public rebuke.

    Very few Anglicans in Ireland will make the way over to Rome, if any at all. On the contrary I expect the constant flow of Catholics and Catholic priests over to their church will continue unabated, and probably increase sharply after the upcoming report into child abuse in the Dublin Archdiocese is published in a fortnight. Catholicism in Ireland is far too punch-drunk and Anglicanism much too low-church for us to benefit from this provision. The Anglican chaplain at Queen’s University is an ex-Catholic priest, and the recently appointed Dean of Christchurch is the first Catholic dean of that former Catholic cathedral since the reign of James II (as in England, all Irish pre-Reformation churches and monastic sites are the property of the Anglican Church).

  16. shane says:

    sorry, meant to say ex-Catholic dean*

  17. smcollinsus says:

    ncstevem:

    The vast majority of the traditions being brought into the Church are actually being broughy BACK to the Church from whence they originiated. Various portions of the Book of Common Prayer, any edition, have been or will be modified to be perfectly Catholic.

    I think people should look at the original meaning of “protestant” – groups of people in “protest” against what Rome hands down as rules to be followed. I suggest that these Anglicans now, who have already started on their pilgrimage home to Rome are very catholic Protestants. And that many card-carrying Catholics should search their souls to ascertain just how much they are protestant Catholics.

  18. catholicmidwest says:

    This is all fine and good. I welcome them, but I won’t go to a married priest for the sacraments.

  19. catholicmidwest says:

    And the entering Episcopalians will have to realize, if they come into the Catholic Church, that we don’t put up with Episcopalian goofiness about the truth. WE have truth claims and they will too if they become Catholic.

  20. Dear catholicmidwest,

    You are free not to approach a married priest for the sacraments.

    You are not free to doubt the validity and legitimacy of his priesthood.

    It’s important to keep these distinctions bright and clear.

    Best,
    C.

  21. catholicmidwest says:

    Did I say I doubted the validity & legitimacy of anybody’s priesthood? NO.

    I know that I am free not to approach a married priest for the sacraments. That’s my intention, and that’s why I said it.

  22. Dear catholicmidwest,

    Sorry ’bout that. It did come off as rather censorious.

    I was just trying to bring the distinction to the fore, not to cast aspersions on you.

    As an aside, I think the entering Episcopalians are the last folks about whose doctrinal soundness we need to worry.

    There will most likely need to be some instruction in what the Church really teaches on some points, and especially some careful catechesis in the Conciliar teachings – but that is par for the course.

    Best,
    C.

  23. catholicmidwest says:

    I hope you’re right, Chris.

    God is somebody, not some fairness doctrine or ideological scenario, whether one agrees with it or not. Catholicism has truth claims at the foundation of its being because of the very nature of that Somebody–God. I hope that this is made clear to Episcopalians on entry. It’s one thing to try to escape a bad situation with which you don’t agree. It’s a whole other matter to sign onto a relationship with Someone who demands your very being in truth by His totally good nature.

    I’m saying that the denial of the average Episcopalian scenario isn’t necessarily wholehearted entry to an earnest Catholic scenario. Maybe it’s just denial. I hope the situation is made clear and the necessary help is given to enable people to genuinely get from one condition to the other.

  24. vincentuher says:

    You need not worry about Episcopalians entering the Catholic Church. Just look at the Anglican Use parishes in Texas which are vibrant centres of orthodox Catholic thought and practice. They really are the first fruits or, if you prefer, the proof of the pudding.

    As a cradle Anglican whose family was in the Anglo-Catholic/Anglo-Papalist wing, I grew up believing myself to be a Catholic and my intention was to live a Catholic life as I had been taught by my family and my Church. When I converted to the Roman Catholic Church, I found I believed everything the Catholic Church taught and found it a great relief to come aboard the Barque of St. Peter where I could be certain that I was receiving the Sacraments in their fulness and most especially that I was truly receiving the Lord Jesus Christ in His Eucharist.

    I have met a number of former U.S. Episcopalians who have converted and who came from the Low Church wing. I have been deeply impressed by the depth of their inquiry into the Truth that was an essential part of their being reconciled to the Catholic Church.

    I believe this is a most auspicious time in which to live. The Pope of Christian Unity is to be thanked and praised for his great kindness and generosity towards Anglicans who have yet to convert. This great healing of the Church that the Holy Father has undertaken has moved many of us former Anglicans to tears of gratitude. MANY YEARS to the Holy Father. Long live the Pope of Christian Unity!

  25. chironomo says:

    There will most likely need to be some instruction in what the Church really teaches on some points, and especially some careful catechesis in the Conciliar teachings

    Heh…heh…yes, I’m sure there will be, but not JUST for the entering Aanglican priests. I can see this occasion as being a very convenient cover for issuing a clarification on the documents of Vatican II as well as liturgical practice. I am reminded that the Compendium Eucharisticum has been published in Latin and is awaiting an English translation just last week. Possible that this will be put forward as such a document?

  26. catholicmidwest says:

    Welcome, Vincentuher. I hope you brought some good sheet music. ;)

  27. hoka2_99 says:

    So, it’s taken five hundred years for Anglicans to realise that their “church” is based not on doctrine but on the frantic need for a divorce by Henry VIII. Sorry if I’m repeating what others have said – I was very anxious to get back on this blog, because my membership must have lapsed and I had to re-register. I think this is, along with Father Tim Finigan’s blog, the most interesting and best informed on the Catholic web.

    I was confused at first by the fact that our wonderful Pope Benedict was allowing these tradiitional Anglicans to come home to Rome while retaining some of their liturgy and tradition. But I can only suppose that this is what they asked and he was willing to allow it. He’s the most brilliant Holy Father we’ve ever had. With him the desire for unity is being put into practice, albeit slowly.

    I’m a convert from Anglicanism [forty years ago]and I know I’m in the one Church which Jesus Christ founded. I just can’t understand why all Christians don’t see this.

    Glad to be back, Father Z!
    Mary

  28. Warren says:

    Excellent point chironomo. My hope is that this teachable moment will extend fully to parishes. The occasion of the canonization of Cardinal Newman would be an obvious opportunity for preachers to draw attention to conversion, faithful witness and obedience to Christ and His Church.

  29. Clinton says:

    The 2010 state visit of the Pope of Christian Unity to the United kingdom is going to be FASCINATING.

  30. vincentuher says:

    The years since I entered the Catholic Church have been the most spiritually fruitful of my life. I brought with me the Catholic best of my Anglican background, and all of those gifts have been blest and transformed since my entrance into the Church.

    As an example, here is a link to the hymn text I wrote in honour of Bishop Slattery of Tulsa, Fr. Mark Daniel Kirby and his new Benedictine community in Tulsa. It could be used in any English language liturgy celebrating this Year for Priests (or as it is called in some dioceses “The Year of Priestly Jubilee”), and I hope it will be a blessing for those who read it and sing it:

    http://musicasacra.com/books/hymns/pbeh_friends_of_christ.pdf

  31. stephenocist says:

    Here’s the Bishop of Chichester’s response to the Telegraph story:

    Statement from the Bishop of Chichester, the Right Revd. John Hind

    October 25, 2009

    An article has been published today in the Sunday Telegraph asserting that I have announced that I am about to become a Roman Catholic.

    This is not the case.

    The report appears to come from a misunderstanding of an answer I gave to questions from the floor at the recent ‘Forward in Faith’ assembly, at which I spoke.

    A questioner had asked about the Papal condemnation of Anglican Orders. I responded by speaking about the subtlety of the position. I referred to the moment when it seemed as if the issue of how the Roman Catholic Church sees Anglican orders might be reopened but how the ordination of women to the priesthood and other developments have now made that impossible.

    In the light of that I stated that in the event of union with the Roman Catholic Church I would be willing to receive re-ordination into the Roman Catholic priesthood but that I would not be willing to deny the priesthood I have exercised hitherto.

    This is clearly a contentious and complex issue and one where it is easy to misunderstand the nuances of the debate. I think I made my position clear in my address at the Forward in Faith assembly. The text is available below and a podcast may be found on the Forward in Faith website.

    + John Cicestr:

    http://thinkinganglicans.org.uk/

  32. Dave N. says:

    “…I would be willing to receive re-ordination….”

    “…but that I would not be willing to deny the priesthood I have exercised hitherto.”

    Interesting. How would these ideas/attitudes ever mesh with Apostolicae Curae? Wouldn’t these CofE Anglicans have to recognize Apostolicae Curae as definitive Catholic teaching?

  33. robtbrown says:

    Interesting. How would these ideas/attitudes ever mesh with Apostolicae Curae? Wouldn’t these CofE Anglicans have to recognize Apostolicae Curae as definitive Catholic teaching?
    Comment by Dave N.

    No, just not deny it.

    I knew two men in Rome in that situation, one had been a very high church American and was already a Catholic priest, the other Episcopal Church of Scotland and in studies. At separate times I broached to each the question of how they looked at the validity of Anglican orders.

    I received similar answers from both: “Right now, I don’t even want to think about that.”

    An understandable response. A man who has spent some years as Anglican clergy, then converts and is ordained a Catholic priest, is faced with reckoning the previous years. Because he has put so much into them, the question can arise: “Why did God let me deceive myself for so many years?”

  34. catholicmidwest says:

    This is an added dimension to the conversion process. It will be necessary for them to admit that they were doing what they thought right at the time, assess the good they were able to do as basic good, and move on to their new regularized status. If they can’t do that, they aren’t converted, but rather just standing in a different building.

    Because the structures of the Catholic Church are very, very, so very poor at filtering phenomena like this, I expect we will see some quasi-converted priests. Don’t attack me for saying this (Rome can do what it wants), but I’m not going to any of these crossover priests for advice til I know I can trust them and on a 1-by-1 basis, at that. (But don’t get upset–I have a CRAP FILTER that everyone has to get through. I’m a convert to the Catholic church and it’s a necessary part of the kit. Unfortunate but true.)

  35. robtbrown says:

    This is an added dimension to the conversion process. It will be necessary for them to admit that they were doing what they thought right at the time,

    Is this required of other converts?

    assess the good they were able to do as basic good, and move on to their new regularized status. If they can’t do that, they aren’t converted, but rather just standing in a different building
    Comment by catholicmidwest

    They are not moving on to a regularized status but becoming Catholics and then being ordained Catholic priests.

  36. Dave N. says:

    So would the confession of faith of these CofE priests, words to the effect of: “I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God,” include or exclude Papal pronouncements like Apostolicae Curae? Or what is the litmus test here? The Catechism perhaps?

    I think what’s past is past and they really don’t have account for their thoughts and motives during their stint as Anglican priests, at least not publicly–seems that’s reserved for the confessional, maybe? But I’m very hesitant that “Right now, I don’t even want to think about that” is a healthy spiritual option for them–but priests do grow in their faith and understanding like anyone else.

    I’m just asking because I’m curious how the Church will deal with this….seems a bit slippery when you start slicing and dicing what’s required to be believed and what’s optional.

  37. David says:

    Good day and God Bless you all. I logged on the other day as dclark9191 but would rather be simple and use my name if that is okay. This post may be outside the scope of this blog and yet it adresses the heart of it. If I am out of line, please forgive me.

    As I said in my profile I have left the American Episcopal Church and do not yet claim any denomination as my home. I studied the scriptures intensely from ’02 to ’03, partly because of the disaffection I had with the direction the church was moving and what I was seeing in the news and around the country. Although I had read the Bible before, there were large parts of it I didn’t really understand. During this period, because I was truly searching Father’s Word for answers, understanding and guidance, I believe Father answered my prayers much as he did Daniel when he was striving to understand what Father was going to do. No, I am not claiming to have received a vision – just understanding.

    In reading these posts, I understand that most of you are more conservative in your views than liberal and yet I also sense an undercurrent of true patience with differing views through love for Chist Jesus in some of you. Others? I wonder if your true allegiancce is to the traditions of the Catholic Church or to Christ Jesus. I hope it is the latter. Unfortunately, I have found the former condition existed more times than not in the different churches I have visited.

    I have a number of questions about your understanding of what it means to follow Christ, some based on comments I have read here. If you will allow such a discussion here – great. It might be of benefit to everyone to see some of the actual issues some people may be questioning. If not, would anyone mind contacting me. My e-mail is dclark9191@live.com.

    with love in Christ, David.

  38. catholicmidwest says:

    Robert Brown,

    You ask if this is required of other converts, and the answer is: Yes, indeed. I take it that you are not a convert.

    Moreover since these men are priests, they are expected to know and serve the Church and the Gospel in order to serve the people. As the Scriptures say: “Much will be required of the person entrusted with much, and still more will be demanded of the person entrusted with more.” NAB, Luke 12:48

    I’m not sure why what I said before should surprise you.

  39. robtbrown says:

    You ask if this is required of other converts, and the answer is: Yes, indeed. I take it that you are not a convert.

    Yes, I am a convert from the Episcopal Church.

    No, I know of no converts quizzed on their past lives.


    Moreover since these men are priests,

    No, they are not considered to be in Holy Orders.

    they are expected to know and serve the Church and the Gospel in order to serve the people. As the Scriptures say: “Much will be required of the person entrusted with much, and still more will be demanded of the person entrusted with more.” NAB, Luke 12:48
    Comment by catholicmidwest

    My understanding is that in these types of cases the men are given some theological formation. I doubt that they’ll just be waived through to ordination.

    I mentioned before that a Roman classmate had been Episcopal Church of Scotland and was studying for the Catholic priesthood. I also knew a man–we lived in the same residence hall–who had been an undercover priest, then bishop, in Russia. He was sent to Rome to study theology.

  40. Subdeacon Joseph says:

    Dear David you said, “I wonder if your true allegiancce is to the traditions of the Catholic Church or to Christ Jesus. I hope it is the latter.” Holy scripture is the foundation of Orthodox/Catholic holy tradition and holy tradition is the the right interpretation of scripture. It was the living holy tradition which gave birth to living holy scripture. Scripture cannot be truly understood without being lived in the Orthodox/Catholic tradition of the Church. Valid apostolic succession of bishops is very important in safeguarding what the Church has always taught about the meaning of scripture and dogma which, at least in the Orthodox Church, is inspired by holy scripture. To divorce scripture from tradition is a false dichotomy.

  41. Archicantor says:

    Late to the dogfight, I’ll point out that this Times article is a bit misleading! You can hear the Bishop of Chichester’s actual thoughts in a speech he gave at the annual meeting of “Forward in Faith”, and Anglo-Catholic society in the Church of England. Listening to the various speeches given at this meeting (all on the website link following) will give you some idea of where Anglo-Catholics are at in their initial response to Rome’s invitation:

    http://www.forwardinfaith.com/news/na09-10.html

    While on the subject, has anyone seen Richard Dawkins’s take on the new Apostolic Constitution? If Prof. Dawkins prefers my Communion to yours, maybe it really is time we looked in the mirror! Link here:

    http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/richard_dawkins/2009/10/give_us_your_misogynists_and_bigots.html

    Lest anyone get upset with the Washington Post over this, see the following very interesting and informed article by Patrick Deneen offering an interpretation of the Holy Father’s wider ecumenical aims:

    http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/georgetown/2009/10/benedict_the_radical.html