I am getting some good feedback on the new translation. Here’s one item:
It was such an improvement that I might (just might) go to Novus Ordo Mass in English there once in a while!
High praise indeed!
UPDATE:
From a long-time reader and frequent donor:
I am surprised at the reaction I am feeling in myself after praying the mass in the new corrected translation. I was totally ready. Having been reading your blog for years and supplementing with other resources, I knew what to expect from the peoples responses. Although I had read some of the words in the preface and canon, it was there that the greatest impact was seen. And it surprised me and took me off guard.
Our priest was very careful and diligent and took his time and said all the black and you could see him taking note of the red. The Eucharistic Prayer taken as a whole built up a crescendo of prayer, much more meaningful and rich than any mass I had heard or prayed before. Where I was totally unprepared was the emotional impact. After the Lamb of God when the people’s response was said, the one from scripture about allowing Christ to come under my roof, into my bodily temple, I was moved to tears.
I think the context to this is important to understand. Our church in under renovation. Our masses are being held in a cafeteria, with folding chairs, no kneelers. It’s crowded and somewhat uncomfortable. However, despite this, it was clear to me that the Lord was speaking to me, and I assume everyone, In a new way, in a better more elevated language that elevated my thoughts In precisely the right direction- upward toward God and In Christ. It worked.
My wife commented last night something fairly astute; we were some of the first to pray the mass last night at the vigil mass, the way the fathers of the council likely intended it to be prayed, and after 40 odd years. It’s hard to argue that she was on to something there. Clearly we have some notion about what went wrong in those years, but what I can report from the ground is that something now has gone right, and it’s a great source of hope.
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Felicitations to you on this day, Father. You’ve waited for it a very long time.
My wife and I usually attend a Traditional Latin Mass in Still River MA, but my daughter was home from college this weekend and we attended the Novus Ordo mass at our old parish. The priest there mostly followed the words of the new translation and they are a most welcome change and most folks recited the new words without difficulty. What was troubling, though was that the priest, as is usual changed the words of the consecration in places. For example, he used Eucharistic Prayer III this morning and in place of “disciples” he said “friends”. I don’t know, maybe not a big deal but some could see it as a subtle bit of dissent (probably not intended by father). Also, they still use big wine glasses to hold the precious blood. The new translation did not change that practice, unfortunately.
One of the main practical difficulties with the ‘new translation’ is, agreeing that it could pass muster on a scholar’s desk (perhaps), that it was not put to the test of the ‘listener’s ear’ (whether of God or mankind). At least the King James Version for its committees of translation and preparation had to pass both of these text tests — the scholar’s desk, and the ‘listener’s ear’. And as has been repeatedly noted in this 450th anniversary of its preparation in 1611, it is a real recognized masterpiece of the translator’s art and science using the English language. A major portion of the complaints about the awkward language with the ‘new translation’ of the Roman Missal could have been bypassed if the ‘listener’s ear’ test had been faithfully applied.
Father, I want to echo Romeontherange’s remark at the beginning of this string. But in addition to felicitations, I want to add my gratitude for your efforts over many, many years to push, push and push again for a new, corrected translation. English-speaking Roman Catholics of the Latin Rite owe you more than they know. This new translation is not perfect, but it is so much better, because it is faithful to the original Latin. The Church’s theology in English-speaking countries will be all the better because it’s English Mass is now all the more faithful.
I hope that the new translation doesn’t end WDTPRS. If the new prayer really does say what the Latin says, then we would not need further commentary. Even if it is off a little, we cannot expect a “change” anytime in our lifetime.
Yes, this blog has helped raise people’s awareness of the deficiencies of the ICEL-ated texts, and that is a huge service, but I dearly hope this blog continues. It is a refuge for many of us who are seeking like-minded Catholics and who want to know:
What Did The Pope Really Say
So we heard the new translation in yesterday’s anticipated Mass, and yes, it is better — it does sound more like something one would read next to Latin in Gramma’s missal. But I must confess that it drives me to turn a more malevolent eye (more than before) to the revolutionaries at Oregon Catholic Press, who have decided a couple years ago that they will eliminate all the “daily” prayers — the collect and so forth — from their soy-ink-on-recycled-pap missalette with faux-Orthodox art (and certainly no way no how any Orthodox music, Lutherans, evangelicals, and the defrocked ONLY need apply). And my new gripe is this:
IF the new translation is a bit wordier and more flowery and so on, and less like what we use in day-to-day speech, wouldn’t it be helpful to have the prayers printed in front of us? Why did we remove it, ever? Why did this happen only in the last two years? What turn of events in the last couple years would make them decide to lose those parts of the Mass in the part they deem necessary for the congregation’s consumption? I, for one, smell a rat — I ascribe this to an attempt to thwart the implementation of the new translation and foment discord.
And on a related note — what’s the difference between a “Nihil Obstat/Imprimatur” and a note of “ecclesial approbation”? One seems to come across as much less authoritative, doesn’t it? And how does one get even that on a collection of songs including things about how a church building is just an empty place until “we” gather there? Pius XII’s comments about the missing red lamp and Mary Magdalen’s lament of ‘where have they taken my Lord’ certainly come to mind …
Attending the new Mass today brought me ineffable joy. I am 40, so I have known nothing else, but the words said today made the Mass seem more sacred and beautiful. Many thanks to all who labored to bring this new translation.
I had grown a bit anxious the last few weeks, concerned that our parish had not done enough to prepare us for the change. Oh me of little faith! Today’s 8 am Mass was lovely. It seemed the congregation was very much in sync on the new texts, responding confidently and certainly with more volume than usual. The other thing I noticed was that during the priest’s prayers, especially the Roman Canon, the folks in the pews were much more quiet. There didn’t seem to be the usual rustling around. Our young parochial vicar delivered a fine homily explaining the reasons for the new translation. He even instituted some new actions for the servers: candle bearers at the Gospel proclamation, and also at each station for the distribution of holy communion. I had never seen that at a Novus Ordo, and what an reverent impression it makes!
It was very evident that he had prepared well, as I heard no stumbles over the supposedly un-proclaim-able orations. It was a wonderful launch for the new translation. We have much for which to be thankful in the English-speaking church!
It was much harder than I expected not to lapse into “And also with you.” But what a welcome problem to have!
Mr. Heartlein:
“Also, they still use big wine glasses to hold the Precious Blood. The new translation did not change that practice, unfortunately.”
One may hope that after a few months of talking about a precious chalice rather than a cup something might filter through…
I was also moved to tears over the new translation. The new translation isn’t perfect, but it’s much better than what we’ve been using by far. And it was highly significant for what it did-break up a political logjam that was in the way of everything in the Church. I wish there was a way to thank everyone who had a hand in making this happen. I am so grateful.
Our parish was prepared, and this morning’s 7:30 Mass literally brought me to tears. Like your correspondent, I, too, was deeply moved at the Lamb of God. It brought to mind the vision in Revelation of the Wedding Supper of the Lamb.
I was also moved at the theological strength of the revised translation of the Collect of the Day! Wow! What a difference!
Thank you for your work, Fr. Z. Please, keep it up!
Re: michael heartlein’s comment: While some priests may continue to take liberty with the words, changing them when convenient, one of the realities that the new translation offers is simply the easier means of challenging those with a loose approach to the words. For:
Since Liturgiam Authenticam stressed formal equivalence, the reliance on the wording of approved translations of Scripture when the actual prayer texts are Scriptural and on the Catechism for doctrinal words, along with more elevated, sacral words, it is all the more important that priests SAY THE BLACK – for the prayers are a more LITERAL translation and a source of unity for the Church – between and among all languages.
I am hoping this point (so long as it is truly sound) takes root in liturgical music circles, hence eliminating all hymns that are loosely based on Scripture for actual gradual psalms and the like…brick by brick.
As for my experience of the 3rd Edition Roman Missal after three Sunday Masses (one being the Saturday Mass in anticipation), might I sum it up this way: woo hoo!
Unfortunately the excitement of the new translation has been tempered considerably by the insistance that everyone in the diocese must now kneel only during the Consecration and later remain standing until all have received Communion.
I noticed little difference between the new and lame duck translation.
We had a christening during Mass so the Credo was part of the baptismal ceremony. The Psalm was Psalm 80 but not the same version as published in the MAGNIFICAT prayer book. (I do not have a Missal yet so I could not double check.
The words of the Alleluja before the Gospel were rearranged to suit a new melody, which was not a chant. Previously, for years, we have had a chanted Alleluja without any text manipulation. I do not understand the change at all.
The Agnus Dei was a modified chant melody and the words were changed a little.
The Eucharistic prayer and all other Priestly prayers were of course according to the new translation but because our Pastor is not a native speaker I could not very well understand the words (just like when he would say Mass by the old translation).
At the end of the Mass we had the blessing of the father of the baptized baby and a separate blessing for people participating in running contest; the priest asked the congregation to raise their hands to participate in the blessing of the new father and the athletes.
We missed, “And with your Spirit” once (before the Gospel). Old habits. All in all, a pretty routine NO Sunday Mass. We spent little time educating the parish about the new translation and it showed. Everything sounded and felt about as before.
We had a surprisingly higher number of EF attendees this morning. However, I’m not going to draw any conclusions from that.
My enthusiasm has diminished. Sure, the revised translation is a great improvement, but everything else about the Mass that has made my worship unpleasant over the years remains. The music continues to be awful and the liturgical abuses are still there. The words are better, but now we must see to it that the other aspects of our public worship make a similar improvement.
Well, ours went ok. Yes, a few “And also with yous” here and there. The celebrant still ad libbed the introduction to the Penitential Rite and used Eucharistic Prayer II and added the prayer for Masses for the Dead. At the conclusion of the Agnus Dei, he recited the private prayer of the priest aloud before the “Ecce Agnus Dei,” which he ad libbed as he always did before. And, at the Final Blessing, he did his usual “May Almighty God bless you, IN THE NAME OF THE Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit.”
Thankfully, he did not do his usual ad libbing at the “Orate fratres,” and the introduction to the Lord’s Prayer.
All in all, it could have been a lot worse! I was actually surprised he was as faithful to the new translation as he was!
While some priests may continue to take liberty with the words, changing them when convenient, one of the realities that the new translation offers is simply the easier means of challenging those with a loose approach to the words.
Another benefit of the new translation is that its generally non-colloquial nature will make ad-libs much easier to spot, even for those not following along with a printed text. The ad-libs will stand out from the scripted text, like tarnish on silver.
a precious chalice rather than a cup
It occured to me that Bp. Trautman, quoted in the NPR story as disparaging this rendering, and referring approvingly to the common earthenware cup depicted in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, is missing the point: the cup used by Jesus became a precious chalice because it would soon contain His Blood, not because it was made from a special material. (The Church’s historical preference for Mass chalices made of precious materials is, I would argue, an acknowledgement of this special function and role of the chalice, not an attempt to recreate what it thought Jesus’ cup was actually like.)
I am now ecstatic about the revised translation. I just received confirmation that my home diocese is NOT adopting the everyone remain standing until everyone received communion. My bishop rocks! I’m not against the revised translation, just those parishes and diocese that don’t use it an opportunity to celebrate Mass in a reverent and transcendent manner.
I believe that the restoration of “Through my fault; through my fault; through my most grievous fault” with the associated breast striking is good. I am also a fan of changing “We believe” to “I believe.” It seems to me that postmodern society does not take sufficient personal responsibility for actions, decisions, and beliefs… The sense of “guilt” is gone from many arenas in life; we blame our actions on “societal circumstances” or “family dynamics during childhood.” Beliefs are vague. Most individuals – even many “cultural” Catholics – cannot be pinned down on them. However, by praying these things at Mass, we take individual and personal responsibility for what we have done wrong… and we affirm what we, individually, believe. People need boundaries and clarity in morals and beliefs. As we pray, so we believe. Thinking forms habits. Repetition “hardwires” brain circuitry. Neurons that fire together wire together. Maybe more people will examine their consciences now… and think about what they, individually, believe.
I LOVE the new translation! Now I just have to wait for it to be well celebrated at Mass by both the priests and the congregation and the choir – if there is one. We don’t unfortunately.
Pray for priests today!!!
Loved the new translation but was also mindful of poor Father who, for 25+ years basically had the Mass memorized, and had not a few stumbles today. Pray for priests (those pro or anti translation) who, regardless, faithfully and humbly implemented the most current edition of the Roman Missal.
Oh, and I particularly liked ‘dewfall’.
7:30 am “Q Tip”*** mass in a suburb of the People’s Republic of Portland:
By the 4th instance, the congregation has seemingly mastered “and with your spirit”, only
to fail again on the last one (perhaps they relaxed too soon?). Your correspondent
failed on the first one, to his shame :-|.
May God bless the retired bishop celebrating.. he has to relearn the mass at 75 years
old, and with a sense of humor: after “Thanks Be To God” he says “You’d better believe it!”.
This is the archdiocese where the local paper (Oregonian) found a Catholic woman
to quote who said that the old translation was “more loving”.. I’m not kidding.
*** Many “white heads”, including increasingly, mine.
“…the way the fathers of the council likely intended it to be prayed, and after 40 odd years.”
Of course, actually not, as they never intended the large-scale rewriting of the order of Mass, omitting much of the Mass they has used during the Council (the rewritten collects, the new lectionary, the omitted offertory prayers etc) , nor the wholesale use of the vernacular, which was to be a permitted exception, nor the Canon spoken aloud, nor the facing altar, nor communion in the hand, I could go on. None of this did they ever conceive, discuss, or recommend at the sessions of the Council.
I do not dislike the Novus Ordo, it can be prayerful, and dignified, and is undoubtedly valid, but it is NOT what the Fathers of the Vatican Council intended, let us be quite clear about that.
Yup, that about sums it up. Oh, wait, did you mean your parish church? For a minute there I thought you were describing the whole Catholic Church.
Thanks be to God we have a Pope who is moving us out of the cafeteria!
I couldn’t resist visiting my local parish for the Novus Ordo, as opposed to my usual TLM at another parish. When I walked in (about ten minutes early), the priest was at the lectern, doing a “last minute” practice with the parishioners. I heard a few mumble “And also with you” at times, but for the most part, everyone stayed with the new translation.
There was only one part of the Mass which puzzled me. For whatever reason, we completely skipped over the new Penitential Act and went straight to the Kyrie. I thought the Penitential Act was to be prayed first, and then the Kyrie. Is it an either/or?
I have an ankle injury which kept me home this Sunday rather than making the 160 mile journey (RT) to my Byzantine parish today. I ended up visiting a local Latin parish for this first Sunday with the new translation.
I must say, the translation is quite worthy of the great tradition of the Latin Church and very uplifting.
Connections to the Scriptural content of the liturgical prayers as well as the shared liturgical heritage of East and West were made far more vivid to those of us who normally celebrate in a different Church according to a different Rite. (I know of a few Byzantines who stepped out today to go experience the new translation.)
I also liked the fact that the priest chanted at least the Words of Institution, and he did so beautifully. It would have been better, I think, for the whole Canon to have been chanted, but it was a good start. (The priest had a very good voice.) Some of the people’s parts were still muddled (“and also with you spirit”), but it was the first time so that is to be expected. I imagine that it will take a few weeks to get the new responses down.
My only criticism is that no matter how worthy and uplifting the translation, Andrew Lloyd Webber is still Andrew Lloyd Webber and he or any similar composer has no place in the liturgy of the Mass. The new translation is worthy of a greatly elevated musical setting, unfortunately that is not at all what I witnessed.
But one brick at a time, as Fr. Z says. Perhaps sacred language will create a pull in a more positive direction towards sacred chant? One can only hope…
Today I rejoice with my Western brethren in a great step forward liturgically and was blessed providentially to share it!
As a priest, I’m interested to hear how this was for those simply attending Mass and taking it all in.
In my situation, I was more thrown off on Saturday’s Mass–my first time using the new Missal–than I expected. One of the changes was the addition of specific words–not “or similar words” for the introduction to the penitential act; so I took care to use those words. I had a server who is, I think, about 1 foot tall, so that was interesting! But he was a trooper.
I used “rite c” for the penitential act, figuring that I would let the folks focus on other new things to manage. We reviewed the Confiteor ahead of time, but I want to wait a few weeks before using it.
A lot of stumbles over the “and with your spirit” and some in the Credo, but folks seemed to take it in stride. I announced beforehand which Eucharistic Prayer (the Roman one of course) I would use, as it would sound rather different.
At one of the Masses, which a retired priest offered in my behalf, we did have one server who apparently so disliked the new translation, he threw up…all over the brand new missal! A couple at that Mass came up and helped the boy, and helped get him and the sanctuary cleaned up, and she also wiped down the pages of the missal with disinfectant. She reports the book shows no sign of the episode.
So I intend to share this good news with the publisher–this sort of durability maybe something they want to mention in their advertising!
ejcmartin: I am surprised that a diocese would adopt a rule making everyone remain standing until all had received Communion. Was this a communication from the Bishop? see http://notitiae.ipsissima-verba.org/year/2003 – the GIRM that is published with the new translation of the Missal is the same GIRM as that referred to in the notitia. It is not a ‘new’ rule, and hence means what it meant in 2003. I don’t think an individual bishop can change it on his own, but I might be wrong.
TNCath: I am surprised by that phrasing “May Almighty God bless you, IN THE NAME OF THE Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit.” I hear it a lot among confreres from English-speaking Montreal, and thought it was a local aberration. I always thought that when priests changed things it was because they thought that their own idea was better than that of the Church, but now I see that sometimes they don’t think about their own thoughts.
ejcmartin,
Can they make you stand? Kneeling is bending your knees. They are your knees.
In my parish the impossible has happened: the Mass has gotten worse with the new translation. Yes, the texts are better, but the music is worse than ever. It’s as if the Gather people–‘The Gather Hymnal’ is the real magisterium in our parish–decided to double down on bad taste, as a protest against the new changes. I have to admit I’m a little depressed as a result of my first experience with the new translation, but it’s my fault: my expectation that something fundamental would change this Sunday was just unrealistic.
I love the new translation of the creed. Athanasius would be proud. Although, in my opinion, they should have used the opportunity to take out filioque in accordance with St Leo III ruling in the 9th century. But good nevertheless!
From Saint Cecilia’s Cathedral, Omaha: Everything was done decently and in order, as the Anglicans used to say. The cathedral clergy have done a good job over the last few months in preparing us for the change, and the congregation chanted their responses loudly enough to be heard. The fact that the Archbishop was present may have helped.
By the way, the Archdiocese commissioned a new mass setting to go with the new translation. It’s not Palestrina, exactly, but it’s pretty good and a lot better than much of what’s out there.
I attended the Saturday vigil Mass in our local Dominican church here in Ireland where, to be fair, the liturgy is usually of a pretty faithful standard. I was very pleased to see that the Mass leaflet included the propers. I was even more pleased that the celebrant was a particular elderly priest who has beautiful and clear, precise diction. I just knew it was going to be good! Well, it was beautiful. He just said the black and did the red (as he always does) and just made a brief reference to the new translations for the entire Mass (we’ve been using the peoples’ parts since September) with a polite exhortation to pay attention to the leaflets. And then he just proceeded with no fuss.
I know it won’t always be this good but wow! what a start.
Good comments, and I’m glad the Novus Ordo has improved vis-a-vis tradition. But it is, and always will be, a deformed, defective rite. You don’t manufacture a new rite out of thin air, and expect it to be anything other than a painful, baneful experience. In emphasizing meal over Sacrifice, you will always have a minority who believe in the Real Presence. Here is what the renown, Vatican-based, theologian Msgr. Gherardini has said regarding the new rite:
“There will soon be available a new translation of the various texts [of the Mass], certainly improved regarding some verses, but I will not marvel at all if for other passages there will be more problems than in the first edition resulting from certain exegetical or historical-theological eccentricities.” [Vatican II, a Much Needed Discussion]
I cried.
In the Doxology at the end of the Canon, the new translation repeats the mistaken inversion as it was in the old translation:
omnis honor et gloria = all glory and honor.
And the solecism of the old translation in repeated in the new translation’s wrong verb agreement:
all honor and glory IS yours
Very annoying. I assumed without that this would have been one of the most obvius corrections. How could something so glaring have been overlooked?
Through him, and with him, and in him, O God, almighty Father, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all glory and honor is yours, for ever and ever.
The changes, which I have placed in bold, are fairly minor. First, there is the addition of the word “and” in the new translation. Of course, the word itself is not necessary and does not change the meaning at all. Nevertheless, the Latin word et does appear in the official text: Per ipsum, et cum ipso, et in ipso… In keeping with the rhythm of the Latin, and all other things being equal, the word “and” should be present, as it is in the corrected translation.
The second change is the restoration of the address, “O God.” The word Deo is clearly present in the Latin and was left off in the current translation. The new translation corrects this error.
The final change is the moving of the phrase “almighty Father.” Once more, the meaning itself is not changed, but the placement in the new translation is more consistent with the Latin. Obviously word order is different in Latin than in English, so there will be some migrating of words if only for the sake of correct English grammar. For instance, the verbs in Latin typically come at the end of a sentence, yet we would never translate sentences such as, “The dog the bread ate.” Part of this necessary reordering is because Latin nouns are able to hold a “case” within their structure while English nouns are not. In other words, a Latin noun has different endings depending on whether or not it is the subject (“Nominative” case) or the direct object (“Accusative” case) in a sentence.* In English, the difference between subject and object is dictated by placement not by endings. For instance, there is a substantial difference between, “The dog ate the bread,” and, “The bread at the dog.”
However, so long as the sentence remains grammatically correct in English and retains the same meaning as the Latin, we should strive for maintaining the original order of the words. With that, let’s look at the full Latin Doxology:
Per ipsum, et cum ipso, et in ipso, est tibi Deo Patri omnipoténti, in unitáte Spíritus Sancti, omnis honor et glória per ómnia s?cula sæculórum.
A pew perspective:
I thought Mass this morning was a definite uptick on the reverence scale. There is still room for improvement, but I felt the elevated language was much more befitting of our King. Advent was the perfect time to begin. It feels like the beginning of Spring. I hope it is a sign of increasing reverence to come.
Dr. K says:
27 November 2011 at 1:04 pm
“My enthusiasm has diminished. Sure, the revised translation is a great improvement, but everything else about the Mass that has made my worship unpleasant over the years remains. The music continues to be awful and the liturgical abuses are still there. The words are better, but now we must see to it that the other aspects of our public worship make a similar improvement.”
My sentiments, as well. When dignity of action doesn’t conform to dignity of words, there is a gross contradiction. But does anyone at the parish level care? Very, very few. And that is the real problem. A very recent attempt at having a TLM in southern Oregon was given the “thumbs down” by a local pastor, so forgive me if I am not giddy over the new translation.
I normally go to the Extraordinary Form, so this doesn’t affect me personally. But I’m glad to see that it is having so many positive effects on others. One good thing I can say locally is that a nearby Church is dumping their “children’s Mass”, which is no longer allowed. (They actually use to have a sign about a “child friendly Mass”!) No more little kids standing around the altar during the Consecration. I personally never attended the Mass, but one of the priests told me how much he hated it, and yet still had to do it. Not any more! And I am personally thrilled that the Consecration will now use the word “many” and not “all.”
…but it is NOT what the Fathers of the Vatican Council intended, let us be quite clear about that.
You’re absolutely right. What the Council Fathers envisioned was a hybrid mass–esentially taking the TLM, ripping it apart, using many of its Latin prayers, and adding others in the Vernacular.
Thank God that didn’t happen! In chucking the entire TLM in the dust bin, hiding it in a closet, they unintentionally saved it, whole and intact! That is why I thank God everyday that He allowed Bugnini to do his devilish business. Because of Bugnini and Paul VI we have safe havens of Tradition such as the FSSPX, where “the most beautiful thing this side of heaven” is still prayed (as mass is the ultimate prayer.
Pope Paul VI very intentionally wanted the new mass to be as Protestant as possible (See here).
correction:
a link was mistakenly attached to my comment. This is my observation:
In the Doxology at the end of the Canon, the new translation repeats the mistaken inversion as it was in the old translation:
omnis honor et gloria = all glory and honor.
And the solecism of the old translation in repeated in the new translation’s wrong verb agreement:
all honor and glory IS yours
Very annoying. I assumed without that this would have been one of the most obvius corrections. How could something so glaring have been overlooked?
Joe in Canada. To my understanding the standing until everyone receives is being enforced everywhere in Atlantic Canada.
The funny thing is right now I have a herniated disc so I have trouble standing very long. Divine intervention perhaps?
I attended the OF Mass at St. Peter’s in Volo, Illinois, which is under the care of the Canons of St. John Cantius. The Kyrie was sung in Greek, the Sanctus and Agnus Dei in Latin as usual. Proper chants in Latin from the Gregorian Missal. Everything else was in English.
The congregation had the most trouble with, “and with your spirit.” Most of the congregation did well with the Credo, although I stumbled a bit, but I usually have to read it anyway. (I normally prefer the EF, but lately have had to attend the OF earlier in the day.) Father stumbled a bit at the beginning of the Canon, but otherwise he didn’t miss a beat. Surprisingly, the Confiteor went very well. (Of course, the Gloria is not said today, but it would have been sung in Latin.)
I was smiling with joy the whole time, especially when I heard “for many” at the Consecration.
When I was a boy, I attended a Lutheran church, and we always said, “and with thy spirit.” When I started attending a Catholic school at age ten, one of the things that irritated me was, “and also with you.” I also missed the strong, liturgical English of the 1941 Lutheran Hymnal, and the emasculated tone of the old ICEL translation grated. The new translation does not grate, but rather sounds strong and… human.
Hopefully, my life will allow me to return to regularly attending the EF, in Latin. But I am much, much, happier with the new translation.
I guess Thanksgiving came three days late this year!
Well, our parish has still banished all chant, so the music—except for the memorial acclaimation b–is quite inappropriate for worship. (We use “Mass of Renewal”). Our folksy pastor congratulated the folks in the pews after we said “and with your spirit”, marring the moment as an act of worship. Overall, though, he did say the black (God bless him!), and it sounded a little like a school boy reciting Shakespeare—a giant’s voice came through nonetheless, the voice of the Church, the voice of Romanitas.
It ain’t the TLM; but it’s a step in the right direction.
xzsdfweiuy: I had to go find the Nancy Haught article in the Oregonian (am down in the People’s Republic of Eugene) after reading your comment; “it’s not caring and loving”, ha. And she makes Mons Vlazny sound like he’s ineffectual and out-of-touch. Here, the 730am went very well indeed (attended there instead of going to the fortnightly EF that is at 3pm)– but from what I understand my parish is the least PRE-ish in the area.
Everything went pretty smooth at my Parish. I did watch Fr Pfleger today and noticed he has not bothered implementing it. I also watched Fr Breen. After a little complaining about it being forced upon us by a few Cardinals in Rome without the lay people participating in it or the Priests wanting it he paraphrased the new translation. How long, O Lord, how long?
Report from the Diocese of Boise, ID…Father stuck to the books, had a bit of stumbling at the beginning with the penitential rite, but he did get the words right. Unfortunately the music is still bad, but there has been an offer for me to sing in Mass. (which means we’ll be getting proper music shortly)…The congregation didn’t mess up, overall, very impressed.
On a humorous note, I have not spent a lot of time explaining the changes to my 5 year old as he does not yet say most of the responses, and does not read yet. (On the other hand, my 7 year old was prepared for the new responses today.) During the consecration, my 5 year old turned to me and in a very worried tone of voice whispered, “Mommy, he’s saying the *wrong* words!” I guess he pays more attention than I usually give him credit for.
Denis,
Yes, we’re going to see some retribution. And since people who have an axe to grind are a bit afraid of the Holy See at this point, it will be directed generally, and it will be obnoxious and sneaky. Progressives are angry. Make no mistake: Some of them believe that Vatican II gave them a constitution for the Church to replace its real structure. They are reacting as though that “constitution” that they think they have has been overruled. They are horrified and this is the reason for the retribution that we see. On some of the high-profile liturgy sites, this supposed “constitution” is being talked about openly and so is the retribution. Fascinatingly looney and explanatory of much that I have seen in my 26+ years as a Catholic.
Examples of retribution: I see that some people, particularly in Canada, are being forced to stand, against the Holy See’s explicit directions. I also witnessed last night a strangely deranged musical display since the one who puts the music together is a bit of a progressivist. This mess wasn’t even up to par by their usual hippie standards. I don’t expect that this was unusual this weekend. We’ll also see some ad-libbing again too. It may get aggressive for a bit like it was circa 1990. But it will calm down when people cool off, from exhaustion, if nothing else. This is done. We have the translation.
However the fact that the translation is in place doesn’t mean the work is over, by far. We still have to keep plugging away, keep praying, keep trying to improve the other things, like art and music. And keep our eyes out for sabotage and subterfuge, as before. I’d suggest carrying an inexpensive missal for a while for your own use, and also to let the local yokels know they’re not really getting away with anything. We know. We can read even if some people seem not to be capable of it. Laypeople aren’t as stupid as most liturgists think (like most liturgists could ever be qualified to say anything about that, anyway).
Improvements? The music is probably next. I see the Holy See is working on that also.
St. Patrick Church Col. , OH, served by the Dominican Friars (yay!)
It was almost perfect. One slight word error by the priest and a few “and also with yous” at the beginning. But really, it was fantastic. The celebrant told us in his homily that he’d been waiting for this day for a long time, and his excitement seemed to rub off on the rest of us.
Music: We chant the introit during Advent and Lent, so that’s what we did here. Also chant for the responsorial psalm. Latin chant for the Agnus Dei, and the Our Father (we chant it in English sometimes, too, but during Lent and Advent we chant it in Latin). Chant for the Sanctus and the Memorial Acclamation. So all around, good stuff, and Advent hymns!
And no one fainted when we said “consubstantial”!
Hey Father, You made our Sunday bulletin today! Quote: “One simply has to go to Fr. Z’s What Does The Prayer Really Say website to get not only his take on the texts, but the take of thousands,…including priests.” It’s Holy Rosary parish in Indianapolis.
Reporting from the pews in the Diocese of Charleston in South Carolina.
Six months or more ago, in my geographical parish, early warning signs were arising of a situation such as Denis at 2:25 pm describes in his parish. My heart aches for him and others in that boat.
Thanks be to God, the pastor in the next parish down, where I am now registered, has been preparing us lovingly and well for a reverently celebrated implementation of the corrected translation since September, when we began learning and using some of the chants. The first anticipated Mass is at 4:30 pm Saturday. Yesterday morning I could think of little else, and by 2:30 pm I was not the only one waiting outside the locked church doors for confession and preparation. So exciting!
The pastor and deacon down front, along with the organist and cantor in the choir loft, spent ten minutes before Mass preparing us in good humor in use of the pew cards. Things went well, with slips here and there. At the pastor’s greeting, “The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all,” we missed our first cue for “And with your spirit.” Father said, “Let’s have a do-over,” and so we chuckled and did it over. The Confiteor is so much better (although, as someone mentioned here or elsewhere, it disappointingly still lacks the “tibi/te Pater”). Vastly improved also is the Creed. No stumbling over “consubstantial” that I could hear. I failed to consult the card at the Orate Fratres and so neglected to modify “Church” with “holy.” Father prayed the Roman Canon smoothly except he mistakenly skipped “Through whom you continue to make all these good things, O Lord . . .”, I am sure from some visual slip.
I could not stop smiling through the Preface I of Advent or the Canon. I could not stop grinning after Mass. I could not go home. A friend and I went to Adoration and then supper, where we toasted the Holy See and our bishops for giving us the best thing to happen to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass since the Council, second only to Summorum Pontificum.
Bless the Lord, o my soul, for delivering me from a liturgical wasteland. And for letting me live to see this day.
@ ejcmartin , who wrote,
“To my understanding the standing until everyone receives is being enforced everywhere in Atlantic Canada.”
Will the ushers be tazing (tasing?) those who don’t stand?
“The funny thing is right now I have a herniated disc so I have trouble standing very long. Divine intervention perhaps?”
It’s a poorly thought-out rule because at any Mass there are likely to be a few people who have difficulty standing for long. I know because I am one, too. We all must do what we are capable of doing without exacerbating a problem with joints or muscles.
Just recently, the Pope had to begin using the “papal mover” built for his predecessor because the walk down the long nave at St. Peter’s was putting too much stress on his hip. If His Holiness visited Atlantic Canada, would the bishops there say he couldn’t use his customized transport device?
Reporting from the pews in the Diocese of Charleston in South Carolina.
You might want to consider the TLM community, a few miles east of Charleston, on the beach in Sullivan’s Island, who have a regular rite according to the EF!
@Revixit: One would likely not be tased, lol. A former bishop of our Diocese, though, actually had people arrested for kneeling to receive Holy Communion years ago. The charges were disturbing a religious service. The people were initially found guilty and the case went all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada. The high court overturned the “conviction”. So, around these parts one never knows what could happen. That said, our most excellent priest did not even mention the edict to us today. We knelt, as we all should, if able to do so :)
I enjoyed the improved translation of the Mass. I found that my previous practice of reciting in my mind the new responses while saying the old ones backfired on me and made it HARDER to say “and with your spirit” instead of the old words– but I’ll get the hang of correcting myself till the new words become solidly habitual.
Since it is Advent, the music was better than usual. I liked that. Now if the Extraordinary ministers could be gotten from behind the altar and trained properly…or dispensed with all together.
Still, it was one of the BETTER liturgical experiences I’ve had all year– if not THE best. I love the emphasis on sacrifice and chalice and all the little changes that make the Mass that little bit richer.
Definite improvement!
Father chanted the prayers this morning, and we chanted the responses. We did not chant the Credo, but read it from a card.
Mass was a true delight today. We had a visiting priest in today, and he’s even more orthodox than our reasonably orthodox pastor. Plus he has fine voice and sings most of the Mass.
Everything was “Say the Black, Do the Red,” with incense, the Confiteor, and the Roman Canon. In the homily, Father stressed the ancient nature of the Canon and how the new translation is much more faithful to the ancient prayer of the Church. He said to view the new Missal as “another coming of Christ, in which he reveals his grace again to us.” Absolutely brilliant stuff. The congregation stumbled on the “and with your spirit” responses, but just about every other prayer and response went off without a hitch.
On a personal note, the Creed nearly brought me to tears. Saying “I believe” instead of “we believe” really hit me, harder than I expected.
Also new today, the Chalice was veiled and the burse was used. I never thought I’d see the day. No amount of Haugen music (and we had plenty) could have ruined this day for me. Thanks be to God!
I am visiting Atlanta for Thanksgiving, so I didn’t get to experience the first day of the new missal at my home parish (with Card. George celebrating and all!), but at my former parish things went pretty smoothly. A visiting priest celebrated and, wisely I think, started Mass by saying that he thought the new translations were fabulous. I was far too excited about the new Confiteor. The only mix up happened at “Lord, I am not worthy,” probably because the booklets the parish printed didn’t include the Eucharistic Prayers and so people stopped following along and started saying the old version. Overall not bad and decent music, though I can’t wait to get back to Chicago to hear what our priests have done with it.
Things went really well at out parish. Father did a run through of the main changes before Mass, which helped alot. People really seemed to be fine with everything. For me, it was almost like watching a shade being lifted so the light could finally shine through. It was an amazing transformation from the boring and bland to the beautiful and the poetic.
We were away this weekend so we weren’t at our home parish, but we were excited to attend Mass at St. Mary Star of the Sea in Cape May, NJ. Seemed to go smoothly. I think I was trying hard not to mess it up! The priest had no servers at all except the woman reading and then she put everything back into the tabernacle! That kind of surprised me. I don’t know all the rules but that was odd. They had at least five EM for communion – all women which seemed odd too. I was just excited to be there and look forward to next Sunday at home.
The standing AND singing throughout Communion was decided by the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops to be the norm throughout Canada. However, the Bishop of each diocese can establish the norm for his diocese. But, there this was brought to the CDW in 2003 and they said the posture is not supposed to be so rigid that it prevents people from being able to kneel.
Should I find myself away from the EF Mass, and in parishes where this is the norm, I shall stand and do as counseled by my confessor…on a completely unrelated note…my confessor also advised we should all pray for the sanctification of clergy. Ahem.
I really enjoyed the credo and the Eucharistic prayer of the new translation, even though the Eucharistic prayer is the one priest always seem to do. It seemed to go over well. The congregation as a whole got all the responses, though there was one half and half “and with your spirit” after the Our Father.
I thought of Fr. Z during our priest’s homily. The priest was talking about how the Latin had not changed, and though he had to confirm it with the older people since he is a VII baby, the mass used to go:
Priest: Dominus vobiscum. And the congregation said as clear as day: et cum spiritu tuo. The priest looked kind of taken aback at the strength of the response (the same as “and with your spirit” had been earlier) and said, maybe we should just go back to the Latin.
Brick by Brick ;)
I went to my local parish today due to car problems.
The hymns they sang were as vapid as ever. And one (identified as our “going forth song” ) seemed to say that the Christ who comes again will not be “a victim sacrificed”, but “our God who saves the world.” Huh?
I was pleased that they did say the Nicene Creed; I had thought they would quickly default to the Apostles Creed. The priest said “for us…and for our salvation” but the people reading the card said “For us men.”
The words of the Eucharistic prayer were very impressive. From the first two hymns you might have thought that these people were nature or light worshippers; my feeling was that the Eucharistic prayer seemed like a different religion from what any of the hymns would make you think. I just soaked up the words, for the first time feeling that I was at worship.
The plain chant in the few parts they did chant was absolutely beautiful. I can’t believe
Rochester is doing that. Is it too much to hope for that the good may drive out the bad, eventually?
However I am not sure it was “by the book”.At the “pray brethren” the pew card had (brothers and sisters) in parentheses-is that correct or a little Diocese of Rochester addition? It didn’t matter, because the priest said ” my friends.”
I know the priest just said chalice, not precious chalice. I couldn’t quite remember if precious was in the new translation, or if I was remembering it from the EF. What about “in his holy and venerable hands”? I wasn’t sure whether that was supposed to be there; it certainly was not.
I forgot to listen for whether he said many, or all. Not sure I want to go back to check it out.
Susan Peterson
I want to say something more but it is difficult to know how to put it.
The words of the new translation were like something real and solid and ancient in the midst of something insubstantial and without depth.
Can something that real make all the silly froth surrounding it just evaporate?
Susan Peterson
Susan: I think the “holy and venerable hands” is only in one or 2 prayers, not all of them. We used Eucharistic Prayer III and I followed along with my Magnificat Guide to the Roman Missal–and there was no “holy and venerable”. Also, “brothers and sisters” was in ( ) there, too, so I think it’s a genuine alternative.
I would like to make a suggestion to all those who have abandoned the Novus Ordo for the extraordinary form. Pick a day when you can’t go to the extraordinary form– Saturday may be a good choice. Daily Mass will be better because most of the remaining silliness will probably be stripped away (no hymns, for example). Just listen to the new translations of the revised Missal with an open mind. I think a reasonable person will see that this is a big improvement and may react as did the two people who commented to Father Z in the original post. I hasten to add that one’s “mileage may vary” and not every priest in every parish will do a great job with it. Sunday Mass may still seem nutty when the lay people get more involved and the typical hymns, guitars, drums, and tambourines appear. I think that overall, though, as long as the priest is even close to what is in the book it’s a big step in the right direction. If we had had a translation such as this from the start, we may not have had the huge chasm between left and right that we have today.
Am an active parishioner at St. Rita’s in Alexandria, VA (Diocese of Arlington). This is a very orthodox and reverent parish, and we’ve been looking forward to the corrected translation for a long time.
We took the opportunity to also implement two other great reforms–at the weekly “High Mass”, we will from now on do the Liturgy of the Eucharist in an “ad orientem” direction. We also restored optional use of the communion rail for those who want to kneel to receive.
Very few mistakes, mostly because the parishioners were so active in their participation (and preparation).
This was, of course, in addition to our usual “Confiteor” penitential rite, the Roman Canon, and all three Simple English Propers. Latin here and there.
All in all, a wonderful day at a wonderful parish.
First mass with new translation – Fail. More than half the people used the old responses.
Not thrilled with the new translation. If I wanted mass to be more like TLM, I would attend a TLM.
But Maxiemom,
This is not ‘more like TLM’ or at least if so that is a byproduct – this is simply a more accurate translation of the Ordinary Form Mass. The normative language of the Ordinary Form is still Latin.
So even if you don’t want Mass to be more like the TLM, don’t you want to know ‘what the prayer really says’? Isn’t that our genial host’s point, after all?
I am pleased with the New Translation, and I also have been looking forward to it for a long time!
My disappointment came as the new “season” of choir rehearsals started (in September), and the music that I had been asking about and looking forward to for so long completely blew me away. (I mean that in a bad way.) Our Music Director (as opposed to our Choir Director, who is new and is only allowed to do what has been pre-arranged) had chosen Dan Schutte’s Mass of Christ the Savior for all of the choirs to do, and we started the Gloria right away (since we wouldn’t be doing it during Advent. Everything else started today). [I am wondering how it got the “approval of the Committee on Divine Worship, United States Conference of Catholic Bishops!”]
It was as though the composer completely ignored the new directives! Our “Gloria” has a chorus and verses, and also unnecessarily repeats some words. (“Glory to God. Glory to God. Glory to God in the highest, and on earth, peace on earth, peace to people of good will.” “You are seated at the right hand, the right hand of the Father,”) We just got to the “Holy, Holy, Holy” (which he simply calls “Holy”) and the “Lamb of God,” etc., last week. The “Hosanna” is done three times instead of the mere one that was written, but I guess that might be a small point . . . I was more upset to find that the “Lamb of God” had several “verses” to choose from (our parish, thanks be to God, has always repeated the first one [Lamb of God], and ignored the rest), but to add to what I consider disobedience, the composer had inserted the name of Jesus to “Agnus Dei!” (Of course I am not complaining about using the Name of Jesus, just that that specific word [name] was not in the Latin, when I thought that the whole purpose of having a New Translation was so that it could be more faithful to the Latin!)
I am figuring out a way to still use this Mass (if we have to!), but changing it to fit with the rules! (It wouldn’t be that difficult . . .)
I have to give credit, though, to our Parochial Vicar, who is over 70 years old, and admitted to stumbling through some of the new wording. Between Masses, I congratulated him on a good job, and he told me that he had accidentally said “Cup” instead of “Chalice,” which even I had not caught! [By the way, why does the Eucharist Acclamation (“The Mystery of Faith” B), still say “drink this CUP?”]
He did talk about the changes during the sermon, and just at the start of Mass. I wish that more people realized (even though Father did repeat it) that they needed to refer to the pew cards or the missalettes more than they ever had before. I was trying to do that (while cantoring at two Masses), and realized too late that I had missed a few myself, even while trying to look for them!
My favorite change was the addition of “enter under my roof” and especially “and MY SOUL shall be healed” (which I’ve been saying for at least a couple of years!), but it was difficult to find it in the missalette, and even on the pew card, so most people missed it! (At the second Mass today, I held up my pew card to the choir whenever I noticed that we needed to use them, and that seemed to help a little.)
“Brick by brick . . .” ; )
Although it was a bit tedious, I asked the parishiones to pick up their Paluch missalettes and keep them open for the entire Mass. At every part of Mass I told the people which page they should be on. My counsel was that if they kept their eyes on the printed text, there would be no danger of reverting to the old. It worked well, I believe. It seems as if for some, this was the first time they actually followed the entire Mass meticulously, and were moved by doing so. In fact, the participation of the people seemed far better and there was a deeply prayerful atmosphere during the Eucharistic prayer.
We used a nice musical setting for the Mass parts and the traditional hymns of Advent, plus I chanted the collects and preface. I heard only compliments and notes of joy from parishioners who commented how much more beautiful Mass is.
I went to a Mass using the new translation this evening, and I much prefer it to the old translation. I had read over the proposed translation since they started working on this version a few years back but it was definitely great to actually see it in use.
I am a parishioner at a TLM parish and I have no real interest in going to the NO unless I have to or have some other reason to do so. That said, I am very much relieved to have a much better translation that at least properly renders the Latin original and gives a much more reverent and “Catholic” feel to it when I do go. I still have much more fundamental problems with the NO, but when it at least is properly translated, some of the more superficial problems with the then-current English NO are defunct.
Of course, that is if I get to go to a “conservative” NO. Those priests and parishioners finally get to have a text that more fitting matches what they do. I’d like to see what they are doing out in the ‘burbs. From hearing the awful musical settings the Old Guard came up with for the new translation, I’m thinking its probably business as usual in the majority of parishes, unfortunately.
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What I liked best was that, with the unfamiliarity of the text, the priest slowed down when saying the Eucharistic Prayer. There was no “rush”. The pace was just right. It was incredibly prayerful. I hope that as the new text becomes familiar, the pace will not quicken. The wisdom of the translators will be even more evident if, years down the line, the “stilted” / more literal translation keeps priests from being able to rush through the prayers.
I noticed this at my parish as well. I was surprised to see, when I left the church, that Mass had taken an hour and a half. Usually, it’s right at an hour, give or take ten minutes. I didn’t check my watch during Mass, and didn’t notice anybody else getting particularly fidgety. We really were in a transcendent experience, I guess.
oh happy day! the new translations sound great, though one elderly lady had a fainting spell at mass this morning after the homily and medics had to be called. Father, who usually ad-libs the “ecce agnus dei” and the “orate fratres” said the black AND in my favorite surprise of the day, officially discouraged hand grabbing at the Lords Prayer! wow. this rocked my world.
Well it is good to hear many positive responses from the majority of you, but I want to offer the opposite here. I posted in another New Translation post but it’s been moved to “Page 2” so it may not get responses.
Coming up to the new mass, I was filled with excitement and curiosity. I’ve seen countdowns for the new translation and read many interesting things from blogs on the blogosphere (Fr Z’s, Catholic Knight, Vox Cantoris, …), got a series of handouts from the internet from my archdiocese that explained the translations, an app from Cale Clarke called “The New Mass” for Iphone (which has a more biblical explanation of the changes for Why’s), and a pew card for the new responses. Fr. Z’s blog especially gave me more to look forward to wordwize as he has masterfully shown how pitiful the 1973 ICEL translation is and how it butchers many of the collects into wimpy feel good “prayers.”
So what happened when I got to my parish? The same old usual. Same old procession, same old 4 sandwich hymns from our current Parish only hymnal (not Gather thankfully!), Homily, consecration, etc. Though it was cool to hear the new eucharistic prayer and collect. Reflecting on the Mass, I didn’t feel at all elevated in soul and body. I felt like it didn’t do what it was being touted to do by everyone, the blogosphere, the diocese, etc. Even with a Catholic Colleague at work we agreed the effect wasn’t pronounced as it should have been. Were it not for my lectoring and a decent homily by my priest who usually goes far out into academia land (as he was/is involved in teaching and committees in the Church so that’s his audience 85% of the time), it would have been even more saddening. Mind you my parish isn’t as bad as many of these other parishes when it comes to liturgical abuses post vatican II. The most “out there” things we’ve done is have poor quality sermons and the replacement of the Crucifix on our headstone on the altar be replaced with an Icon of Christ blessed by an archbishop of the Diocese. So maybe since there wasn’t radical changes, maybe there was nothing to notice?
There is a few small gems of hope though out of it today. I helped an older lady in her 40?s once with the responses using the pew card. I saw a young elementary school boy and his mother do a simple/moderate bow before receiving the Eucharist. Also, I gained an even further appreciation for the TLM, for even a simple low Mass would have seemed better for me today. While I do acknowledge that as a whole, this is a good start to correcting the damage done to the laity of the Church over the last 40+ years, personally the New Translation was a letdown for me this Sunday and ineffective. That or maybe I should considering transferring to my Mother’s new parish for Novus Ordo things (where there are good traditionally minded Novus Ordo priests).
In England we have been using the new translation since September; I don’t know why, in uncharitable moments I put it down to some kind of hubristic desire of the Bishops’ Conference to be “first.” The language is definitely an improvement but I think all the comments above bear out the fact that there is a lot more to do than change the translation. If you already have a parish where they sing chant you should be giving thanks daily for the fact. The parish we have attended for the last five years seems under the new parish priest to be doing everything to drive us away; not deliberately but blindly. The priests are not actually unorthodox, they just seem to have no idea. They have recently changed things so that the second collection for particular charitie / the parish hall rebuild which always used to be as you leave the church is now after the post communion prayer and before the blessing. Per se, not necessarily a terrible thing you think; but then they sing a c**p “hymn” during this collection. What kind of signal does that send?
One week we didn’t get a hymn but we got 11 minutes (I timed them) of notices from the parish priest. In a mass that lasted 65 minutes all together. And at least half of these were about money.
All this has been going on post the introduction of the new translation to our Church. None of the priests are native English and their diction is pretty poor; so it has taken a couple of months to hear any of the changes to the Eucharistic Prayers.
The next step in liturgical reform would be to add limits to the use of the vernacular. No Mass should be said entirely in the vernacular. Parishes should have the obligation to offer at least one Sunday Mass in Latin if they wish to offer other masses in the vernacular. Publishers of missals should have the obligation to present the original Latin next to the translation. Such limits are absolutely necessary if we are to respect the teachings of the Second Vatican Council on the use of the vernacular in the Mass.
My wife was under the weather yesterday, so instead of the parish, I went to a later Mass at the Cathedral Basilica of the Immaculate Conception (Denver). As I arrived, right at the time Mass was set to start, I saw about a dozen folks near the age of seventy near the main entrance. They had signs (which weren’t legible from any distance) and a woman in a wheelchair was playing guitar. As I ascended the steps to the side entrance, I finally picked out that they were singing “All Are Welcome”, which made me laugh as they were evincing a distinct lack of welcome to anyone who wanted to know what the prayers really said.
I found a seat during the processional hymn. The large young congregation which, as befits the city, included folks from throughout the world, contrasted sharply with the homogeneity of the protesters’ age and ethnicity. Cards laid out throughout the pews contained the new responses at a ratio of about two cards for every three worshipers. The responses mostly went will with minimal garbling with two exceptions: the Confiteor and “May the Lord accept the sacrifice . . . ” The second had an easy explanation: the celebrant had intoned the “Pray, Brethren . . .” and no one wanted to be the first to either sing or say the response. I guess folks just didn’t think there might be a change to the Confiteor.
The celebrant used EP III. Many more scriptural images lept out from it than I had previously noticed. No one visible in the assembly seemed overly perturbed by the new translation.
As I left through the principal doors, there were three of the older folks still present. The one man had a sign bearing the words “New Missal” with a circle and slash superimposed. As cheerfully as I could, I said, “You’re forty years too late with that.” He had no reply. One sign was still illegible. The other said “For All, not ‘for many’!” In the interest of getting home to tend timely to my better half, I thought better of bantering with those two ladies who carried themselves like pantsuit nuns.
I believe the “new mass” went well at our parish at the vigil service on Saturday evening. Just as an observation, it was interesting and perhaps instructive to note a contrast with what is hopefully the “old” and the “new.”
There were 7, count them SEVEN, EMHC’s in the sanctuary to assist in the distribution of Holy Communion. They were all women, and perhaps one of them was under the age of 60. It had been raining that day and attendance was perhaps lower than expected, but even so…..the 125 to 150 worshippers didn’t really require the ministration of 7 EMHC’s…..
I’m not sure what it will take to change this pattern, but I remain hopeful still…..
I thought it was beautiful. Father made a few stumbles, but that is certainly understandable. He’s been saying the old words for 40 years. But he just kept pausing and finding his place and it all went well. Our parish had about 8 classes at all different times–morning, midday and evening–to introduce the new responses and prayers to us, so we felt pretty prepared. We had our pew cards. There were a few And also with you’s here and there, even by me, who had my pew card in front of me. Old habits die hard. But we will get there!
All in all, it was very positive. My kids caught right on and elbowed me when I messed up. All of the children seemed to really embrace the changes. They have been practicing at my children’s Catholic school for weeks now, and they were chomping at the bit to get started.
Our experience with the corrected translation went beautifully. In order to help the assembly (and clergy) say the words as given, nearly every part that required a response was chanted using the new settings from the Missal. The music and the advance preparation will make the difference in the long run.
I went to Mass on Saturday evening and on Sunday morning, so I heard two different priests take on the new texts. I stumbled more than I thought I would over the new responses–I’ve been to a number of EF Masses and also spent enough time in Byzantine parishes that I thought I wouldn’t have a problem with “and with your spirit.” The new creed is going to take me a long time to memorize. I was unexpectedly moved by the changes in the words leading up to the Sanctus.
Our parochial vicar, a native Spanish speaker, was on vacation this weekend. I will be interested to hear how he handles the increased level of grammatical complexity. His English is decent, but his grammar isn’t always good and he has a heavy accent. I predict even more complaints that he is difficult to understand (which is kind of funny, given that we are in the South and some of the native English speakers around here are equally difficult to understand).
I was very much looking forward to the new translation, but I was a bit fearful of the reaction of my sons – age 19 and 23. I have a very clear memory of my older brothers (at those same ages) walking out of church post Vatican II – never to return. Young people of a certain age often take personal offense to having their boat rocked by the establishment. My youngest was home from college on Thanksgiving break an we all went to mass together. After mass I turned to my sports obsessed, girl crazed, no priestly vocation in sight, typical college sophmore and asked him what he thought. He quickly answered. ” Its the same mass, it just uses different words to say the same things. No big deal. We’ll all jsut fake it till we learn it”
– would that we could all just take it in stride.
We can hardly understand our priest(Italian with parkinson’s) so it was kind of hard to notice. I did notice that he was taking his time and not going from memory.
The lady in front of us turned to her husband and said “That wasn’t right, they changed stuff.”
I handed her the pamphlet in the few that listed the changes.
We visited my parent’s parish while home for Thanksgiving. The priest took care to highlight the changes, and even had us practice “and with your spirit.” He also took pains during the Homily to remind us that the changes were merely bringing us into line with the way Catholics in most other languages already pray.
Because we had a baptism during Mass, the Introductory Rites were different from the standard, which caused me some confusion – though the fault for that was entirely my own.
The only major stumble for the congregation was during the Communion Rite. At the giving of the Sign of Peace “May the peace of the Lord be with you always,” we responded “and also with you.” The priest caught the error, we all had a chuckle, and he repeated the phrase so we could properly say “and with your spirit.”
I openly wept in gratitude at various parts of the Mass. I felt that the majesty of the Rite had been restored – and was a long time coming. I am grateful that the labors of so many has finally begun to bear fruit. Deo gratias. Non nobis.
This is my observation:
In the Doxology at the end of the Canon, the new translation repeats the mistaken inversion as it was in the old translation:
omnis honor et gloria = all glory and honor.
And the solecism of the old translation in repeated in the new translation’s wrong verb agreement:
all honor and glory IS yours
Very annoying.
With respect, the translation is correct in both editions. All glory and honor IS yours. The verb is conjugated based on the nouns, and the singularity or plurality of the verb is determined by whether or not the nouns can be quantified (not measures, but counted.
Examples:
All apples and oranges ARE yours. (Since apples and oranges can be counted)
All apple juice and orange juice IS yours. (Since juice can be measured, but not counted)
“Glory and honor” is more similar to “apple juice and orange juice” because it cannot be counted. Therefore, “All glory and honor IS yours.” It was correct in the old translation and it’s correct now.
“Not thrilled with the new translation. If I wanted mass to be more like TLM, I would attend a TLM.”
SOOOOOO not the point. Ugh. I’m sorry you were poorly catechized and lied to for so many years as so many millions were, but what we were hearing for all those years in Church every Sunday simply wasn’t the Novus Ordo Mass. Now you actually have an educated basis for deciding whether you prefer the Novus Ordo to the TLM.
I love the new translation. Although, I was only about 50/50 with “And with your spirit.” Does “And also with youuu-r Spirit” count?
I’m from Toronto, Canada. My pastor has been ‘training’ us, so to speak, for the last several weeks during daily Mass to use the corrected text. So my attention wasn’t so much on making the people’s responses, as on the priest’s parts which we only started hearing in the last few Masses (the Altar Missal arrived not so long ago, Father was having difficulty at some instances when the Missal simply would not lie flat). At the Sunday Mass yesterday I truly felt the impact of the prayers … I listened as Father sang the Mass, and we use the new music setting from ccwatershed … as the words started to sink in, I can feel my heart being moved … that movement is truly hard to described, the only thing I know is that it is one of joy. One good thing about the previous text, is that by contrast the new/corrected text is like a breath of fresh air. Deo gratias!
Well, I for one was astonished. We often attend the 6:00PM Lifeteen Mass at our parish. I don’t know about Lifeteen Masses anywhere else, but ours is VERY much a say the black do the red operation – no silliness at all.
But nonetheless I was not expecting much of a change. Man, I was wrong. We were all given small booklets with the ordinary prayers in them – with the changes in boldface. Father made a point of referencing page numbers periodically to keep people up to speed. The change in atmosphere was striking. Much more attentive – or maybe thoughtful. We used the real confiteor, and Father used EPI all of which made for an entirely different experience. The new mass setting that was used was drastically more serious sounding – and better musically as well.
It all makes me wonder, having seen how striking an effect the translation has, if we, as Latin Rite Catholics, are not really all that far “gone”. If such a small “correction” can have such a strong effect, we may only be a few more small corrections away from Saving the Liturgy – and Saving the World.
I am reminded of the newly restored painting that Fr. Z posted in the last few days. The difference in the translation of the Missal is much like the difference in the “before” and “after” pictures of the painting. The Novus Ordo had great majesty and dignity all along, but much of it was obscured by the dirt and grime of a horrid translation. [Good one!]
This morning I had the opportunity to attend Mass at a parish whose pastor has always been obviously reverent, even with the old, awful translation. It was much easier for him with a good translation, but he also had us recite the Kyrie in Greek and the Sanctus and Agnus Dei in Latin. What a treat. Brick by brick.
fenetre, if you don’t mind me asking, what parish did you go to and what order of priests, if any run your parish? Also how did you get so much more out of the Mass? Look at my earlier reflection and you can see why I’m asking you the question. Also how did your parish get away with ccwatershed music? I thought all parishes were dictated by the CCCB to use one of their 3 mass settings or the unclear ICEL gloria and chant option?
Someone should show this to the folks on CAF who are pooh-poohing the new translation. “Archaic language”… gimme a break!