Card. Kasper’s observations about Africa – UPDATE: Interview REMOVED!

UPDATE 16 Oct 1700 GMT:

Card. Kasper’s interview at ZENIT has, as if by magic, disappeared.

ANOTHER UPDATE!

Card. Kasper denied giving the interview, but Pentin had openly recorded it and it was on the record!

HERE

Pentin posted it.
_____

Card. Kasper has been at the epicenter of the controversies surrounding the ongoing Extraordinary Synod.  He set the ball rolling in a speech to a consistory of Cardinals in which he made now infamous proposals.  For example, he suggested allowing the civilly remarried access to Communion under a “tolerated but not accepted” model.

Now Card. Kasper has been interviewed by ZENIT.  He made curious comments that have me scratching my head.

First, some background.  As I observed the other day, Pope Francis appointed some additional members to the committee to draft the Relatio the Synod will turn in.  None of them were from Africa.  Today, Marco Tosatti made the same observation.  HERE  That seems… odd, since Africa is exploding with Christians.  However, the fact is that African Catholics are far more doctrinally conservative than their counterparts in the 1st world.

Perhaps their contributions would have … muddied? … the desired results.

Anyway, today Card. Kasper speaks again.  Here is the relevant section:

It has been said that [Pope Francis] added five special rapporteurs on Friday to help the general rapporteur, Cardinal Peter Erdo. Is that because he’s trying to push things through according to his wishes?

I do not see this going on in the Pope’s head. But I think the majority of these five people are open people who want to go on with this. The problem, as well, is that there are different problems of different continents and different cultures. Africa is totally different from the West. Also Asian and Muslim countries, they’re very different, especially about gays. You can’t speak about this with Africans and people of Muslim countries. It’s not possible. It’s a taboo. For us, we say we ought not to discriminate, we don’t want to discriminate in certain respects.

But are African participants listened to in this regard?

No, the majority of them [who hold these views won’t speak about them].

They’re not listened to?

In Africa of course [their views are listened to], where it’s a taboo.

What has changed for you, regarding the methodology of this synod?

I think in the end there must be a general line in the Church, general criteria, but then the questions of Africa we cannot solve. There must be space also for the local bishops’ conferences to solve their problems but I’d say with Africa it’s impossible [for us to solve]. [NB] But they should not tell us too much what we have to do. [?!?]

[…]

Here is the inverse argument.

Kasper’s view reminds me of when Augustine tried to convince Donatists that the Church wasn’t just in Africa.  The Donatists thought they were the only Church and anyone in contact with Catholic bishops was tainted.

I respond that the Catholic Church in Africa is older than the Church in Germany.  Not only that, the Church doesn’t subsist only along the Rhine.

The only things missing from what Kasper said here are the words “tribal” and “primitive”.

If I recall correctly, Anglicans tried this too, at the their Synods.  They needed to exclude Africans who weren’t going along with their groovy new ideas.  How that’s working out for the Anglicans now?

UPDATE 16 Oct 1548 GMT:

From a priest friend:

A few years ago Cardinal Kasper compared London to a Third World country.  HERE

And he did not mean it as a complement.

He refused to apologize – and then flew back to Rome claiming to be ill.

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77 Responses to Card. Kasper’s observations about Africa – UPDATE: Interview REMOVED!

  1. Thorfinn says:

    Ah, yes, “a Church for the poor” – Africans excluded!

    That’s like spreading the Gospel but excluding the words of Christ.

    Or teaching Mercy — excluding Justice and Truth!

  2. Traductora says:

    Totally weird. What is Cardinal Kasper’s obsession with “gays” all about? I notice he’s not even mentioning his first stalking horse, “mercy” for the divorced and remarried. Was this whole thing about legitimizing homosexuality?

  3. iteadthomam says:

    @ traductora

    If some of these bishops were really concerned about the people and their need for Christ and His mercy, they would tell them the truth about their sins and call them to repentance. For many, this isn’t about the needs of the people or mercy, this is just about the Church embracing/endorsing the very sins in which they wish to promote.

  4. Atra Dicenda, Rubra Agenda says:

    Liberal like Cardinal Kasper will couch their meaning in long-winded double speak like this. The sickest part is how they pretend to be generally open-minded and inclusive. Really they are as close-minded and discriminatory as they accuse conservatives of being. What he means is “Africans don’t think like me, so I don’t want to hear what they have to say and I don’t want them to have a voice in the Catholic Church.”

  5. CatholicMD says:

    Those are some of the most vile and disgusting words I’ve ever heard a Catholic prelate speak. I have seen this happen as a former Anglican. These are dire times. If the pope sides with Kasper there will be another Reformation.

  6. The Astronomer says:

    Does anyone think that the Holy Father will really align himself with Cardinal Kasper?

    There’s an old Chinese saying (a curse, actually): “May you live in interesting times…”

    We certainly are….

  7. disco says:

    I feel like you could reasonably preface just about anything Cardinal Kasper has said over the past few months with “if any man should say:” and follow it with “let him be anathema” and be square with the deposit of the faith.

  8. Raymond says:

    Hypothetically speaking, if the pope were to issue a “heretical” apostolic exhortation, are there grounds in canon law for his removal? Say, for reasons of mental incapacity? This would be preferable to another major Schism.

  9. MichaeltDoyle says:

    It would be good to show solidarity with the African churches that hold to what Jesus said regarding marriage and to let them know others know they have a legitimate voice. It would be good to request that they be included in the process.

  10. cpttom says:

    Wow, I guess “appreciating their gifts they bring to Christianity” only extends to the openly homosexual and not people from an entire Continent? It is amazing to watch liberals expose their prejudices when they think they aren’t. It is obvious to me that Cardinal Kasper is disordered in how he views the individual. He certainly fails Saint Mother Teresa’s test of “seeing Christ each person.” I will pray for him as millstones weigh a ton.

  11. McCall1981 says:

    What should we make of his claim that the majority is with him?
    Others have said the majority is against him.

  12. incredulous says:

    What kind of lesson in race sensitivity and inclusiveness is this? Universal Church? Frankly, this SMACKS of the most blatant racism you can find. It’s steeped in the Leopold-esque view of “the dark continent.” After my spending years in Africa, this is stunning and disorienting coming from a Eurpoean prelate of such stature. Really Cardinal Kasper? I’ve never heard anything so outrageous from a Catholic presbyter.

    Interestingly in a lay ministry class two weeks ago, we were given the point of view that VCII was one of the three most important Councils ever convened because it takes the Church from being a Eurpoean based church to a global/universal church. I guess the old guard like Kasper will kick and scream as the biological solution takes hold and millions of conservative African Catholics evangelize us. Why I know of a few Priests and Pastors who are from central Africa here in the US and their masses have widespread communion on the tongue and kneeling. I’ve come to very much admire the love Africa has for the Church.

    You couldn’t find a more diametric comparison as to a Wiemar era progressive German making the best use of a Wiemar “church tax” versus an African Catholic. I think it’s kind of ironic that after the West supposedly saved Africa through Christian colonization, they will be saving our humanity and spirituality by echoing back our own belief system that we have disregarded.

    Lastly, what is this obsession with homosexuality? I don’t get it at all.

  13. mrshopey says:

    And I thought it had to do with Ebola (benefit of the doubt).
    Stupid, stupid me.

  14. David in T.O. says:

    As a Catholic man married to a beautiful Catholic South African woman from Capetown, I consider this Cardinal’s comments to be racist and in need of an apology!

  15. bposullivan says:

    It was very weird and poorly expressed. I got the impression, though, that he meant that the African bishops aren’t listened to because they avoid saying much on this topic in these international conversations–“it’s not possible, it’s taboo,” he says, for [some] people from African and Muslim cultures to participate in discussions of these subjects. This seems to be the interviewer’s understanding of what he meant, based the the bracketed paraphrase: “No, the majority of them [who hold these views won’t speak about them].” Notice that before he says that Africans shouldn’t “too much” tell the rest of the church what to do, he also (I think) essentially says the rest of the church shouldn’t tell the Africans what to do: “the questions of Africa we cannot solve. There must be space also for the local bishops’ conferences to solve their problems but I’d say with Africa it’s impossible [for us to solve]. ” At least, I hope the interviewer is right that he means “it’s impossible [for us to solve]”; if he means that it’s impossible to let the African bishops’ conferences to solve their problems so solutions must be imposed on them by the world’s bishops, that would be a much more problematic stance for him to take, in my view.

  16. bsjy says:

    Regarding the Anglicans, this is what the former Episcopal Bishop of Newark (NJ) had to say in 1998 about the Africans:
    “Scientific advances have given us a new way of understanding homosexual people. At the Lambeth Conference and in dealing with the Third World this knowledge hasn’t percolated down, and it’s not going to change overnight.”
    Starcourse

  17. danhorse says:

    Although I have never spoken with an African cardinal, I have met many African priests. We have had African priests at our parish for the past six years and none of them have ever considered talking about ‘gays’ or homosexuality taboo. They bravely declare what the Church teaches. Unless, once they become cardinals, these topics suddenly become unmentionable for African prelates, Card. Kasper is not being honest.

  18. Legisperitus says:

    I noticed that about Kasper’s interview, the repeated use of “taboo” as if to imply the concerns of the Africans were merely some primitive, even pagan, superstition that must be tolerated but ultimately ignored.

  19. Quas Primas says:

    Sounds like unadulterated racism from Kasper – now that’s not very tolerant, merciful, or welcoming, is it?

  20. Johnno says:

    But Father… I thought that liberals wanted free and open dialogue without fear of taboos?!

    This just further goes to show that it’s the libs who are hypocritical prejudiced racists! And who follow Marx’s beattitude that blessed are you when you accuse your opponent of what you yourself are…

  21. jherforth says:

    Unfortunately a pattern is beginning to emerge from this Cardinal. Here is an article from 2010. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/the-pope/8006562/Pope-visit-Cardinal-Walter-Kasper-wont-apologise-for-Third-World-comment.html

  22. Robbie says:

    I just marvel at the way the merciful Cardinal Kasper gave the back of his hand to the African Bishops. God’s holy Church is in turmoil.

  23. Landless Laborer says:

    Excellent post disco!!
    Well thank God the Africans have good shepherds, what with everything else they struggle against, they deserve them.

  24. anna 6 says:

    This racist comment of Kasper’s needs to go viral!
    People (especially the bishops and pope) need to understand who we are dealing with.

    It is so sad because I have such vivid recollections of Benedict XVI speaking with great love and respect for the Africans, whom he felt had a more authentic and joyful faith than so many Europeans who had developed a materialistic and relativistic faith. Kasper is exhibit A.

  25. AnAmericanMother says:

    Yes, these folks’ closet racism comes dashing to the fore when somebody of a different color says something they don’t like.
    I vividly recall our former Episcopalian rector giving a “talk” about “the Holy Spirit doing a new thing” with the “consecration” of the bishop who left his wife and two daughters to live in sin with a man . . . he started off by making fun of “rednecks” who were backward and inbred, and then moved on to “those ignorant Africans” who just want to legalize polygamy, yuk yuk yuk.
    About half the room laughed in a sycophantic way . . . some of us got up and left and never went back.

  26. ckdexterhaven says:

    Liberal European Catholic bishop doesn’t like uppity Africans who follow Biblical teachings.

    Remember when the president of Senegal upbraided Obama when Obama made a speech telling the Senegalese to respect LGBT rights? http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/29/world/africa/senegal-cheers-its-president-for-standing-up-to-obama-on-same-sex-marriage.html?_r=0

    Kasper didn’t want those people in his Synod.

  27. markomalley says:

    Had a conservative made such statements…

    Just goes to show that it’s not bad if the right people do (or say) it.

    Sadly.

  28. ChrisRawlings says:

    Africans have gifts and qualities to offer to the Christian community: are we capable of welcoming these people, guaranteeing them a fraternal space in our communities? Often they wish to encounter a Church that offers them a welcoming home. Are our communities capable of providing that, accepting and valuing their ethnic orientation, without compromising Catholic doctrine?

    Between the Cardinal’s words and the marginalization of African bishops at the Synod, I’m starting to warm to the idea of a Synod on the Africans in the context of the New Evangelization.

  29. Clinton R. says:

    The more Cardinal Kasper, the more he reveals his true self. The only thing that will be ‘opened’ is a schism if the Pope goes along with this insanity. The truth is not in men like Cardinal Kasper. The are reinventing their own church by the day. The Catholic Church is the pillar of truth. Clear and uncompromising in her doctrine and teachings. The machinations at the Synod are truly diabolical, as is the ‘spirit’ of the Council as referenced in the Cardinal’s interview. Domine, miserere nobis. St. Michael, defend us in battle. Blessed Mother, pray for us. St. Joseph, pray for us. +JMJ+

  30. HeatherPA says:

    I am sorry, but how is this guy a Cardinal of the Catholic Church? This is shockingly awful.

    Remember, Cardinal Kaspar doesn’t care too much for the poor, he wants them barred from the Communion rail in Germany for not paying their church tax. (Under the ridiculous claim that they are apostate.)

    The homosexual Agenda is the most powerful lobby in the world. They will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever give up. They have the supernatural help of entities that are extremely intelligent, cunning, and who never sleep. How else can their conquer of every single secular and religious institution (except the Catholic Church) in less than 50 years be explained? If the princes of the Church were smart enough to realize the Angelic help they have at their disposal to combat this shtuff…

    This was always going to come down to letting the gays have their way OR ELSE. How many priests have been “disciplined” for not allowing straight people in irregular situations receive Communion versus… How many priests have been sent to Siberia (or it’s clerical equivalent) for not allowing gays in admitted SS relationships to receive? Or have just spoken out publicly against it even?

    The angels are crucial. We should send our guardian Angels to assist at the Synod.

  31. tcreek says:

    I would think that Cardinal Arinze would be highly offended. He and Cardinal Burke would be of like mind on the statement of this synod. They are close and for several years were the main speakers at the Church Teaches Forum In Louisville Ky.

  32. KateD says:

    If there are Cardinals from areas where the subjects are taboo and they are therefore not at liberty to speak openly about such topics, why not keep the debates within the synod on the QT. Kind of like during a conclave. These guys are good about keeping mum. This tact would additionally solve the problem of media misinterpretations.

  33. Johannes de Silentio says:

    According to the principles of Cardinal Kasper, St. Charles Lwanga would appear to deserve our censure rather than canonization.

  34. robtbrown says:

    Nb The following Kasper comments:

    There must be space also for the local bishops’ conferences to solve their problems . . .

    As I have said before, this is about the power of the regional/national bishops’ conferences.

  35. LarryW2LJ says:

    “Oh man, Africa doesn’t fit into this equation at all! What do we do?”

    “Forget about them! Problem solved!”

  36. Choirmaster says:

    Above, HeatherPA makes the following points and questions:

    The homosexual Agenda is the most powerful lobby in the world. They will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever give up. They have the supernatural help of entities that are extremely intelligent, cunning, and who never sleep. How else can their conquer of every single secular and religious institution (except the Catholic Church) in less than 50 years be explained? If the princes of the Church were smart enough to realize the Angelic help they have at their disposal to combat this shtuff…

    This was always going to come down to letting the gays have their way OR ELSE. How many priests have been “disciplined” for not allowing straight people in irregular situations receive Communion versus… How many priests have been sent to Siberia (or it’s clerical equivalent) for not allowing gays in admitted SS relationships to receive? Or have just spoken out publicly against it even?

    I would respond that:

    1. The homosexualists have conquered a great deal in the Catholic Church. I see much of this in my own diocese and now we are seeing it play out in Rome under the light of the Sun. In my opinion, at least, the language in the Relatio could have never come from a Vatican that is unaffected by the homosexualists. It is we who must remember, and indeed wholly rely upon, the Angelic help available to those who adhere to the Truth against the enemies within the Church.

    2. I know of one priest, at least, that has been disciplined for refusing communion to a “committed homosexual” by Card. Weurl. This priest was publicly renounced by the Cardinal as well as was driven from the Archdiocese of Washington, D.C.

  37. Choirmaster says:

    Above, HeatherPA makes the following points and questions:

    The homosexual Agenda is the most powerful lobby in the world. They will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever give up. They have the supernatural help of entities that are extremely intelligent, cunning, and who never sleep. How else can their conquer of every single secular and religious institution (except the Catholic Church) in less than 50 years be explained? If the princes of the Church were smart enough to realize the Angelic help they have at their disposal to combat this shtuff…

    This was always going to come down to letting the gays have their way OR ELSE. How many priests have been “disciplined” for not allowing straight people in irregular situations receive Communion versus… How many priests have been sent to Siberia (or it’s clerical equivalent) for not allowing gays in admitted SS relationships to receive? Or have just spoken out publicly against it even?

    I would respond that:

    1. The homosexualists have conquered a great deal in the Catholic Church. I see much of this in my own diocese and now we are seeing it play out in Rome under the light of the Sun. In my opinion, at least, the language in the Relatio could have never come from a Vatican that is unaffected by the homosexualists. It is we who must remember, and indeed wholly rely upon, the Angelic help available to those who adhere to the Truth against the enemies within the Church.

    2. I know of one priest, at least, that has been disciplined for refusing communion to a “committed homosexual” by Card. Weurl. This priest was publicly renounced by the Cardinal as well as was driven from the Archdiocese of Washington, D.C.

  38. Juergensen says:

    Perhaps a smaller, more faithful Church will arise from the ashes . . . under Pope Benedict XVI.

  39. Uxixu says:

    If only deviant promiscuity were still taboo in North America and Europe and was the culture of death of both those in the womb as well as the aged to population growth levels instead of relying on immigration for sustainment, much less prosperity.

  40. benedetta says:

    Agree with the commenter above — this was all about communion for the divorced and remarried. Suddenly an entire continent of Catholics may not be involved in the discussion because it’s about the gay? I’m totally confused…

  41. sw85 says:

    Sodomy is seen as moral sickness in Africa, and I’ve read that Protestants and Muslims have made evangelical inroads there by labeling Catholicism the “gay church.” So surely the more the Synod appears to endorse homosexual behavior, the more the Church in Africa will suffer.

    It’s worth remembering that it’s poor black people who are disproportionately being impacted by Kasper’s desire to suck up to the wealthy white Western divorcees and sodomites. A church for the poor, indeed.

  42. JesusFreak84 says:

    How is this not racist???? And, IMHO, a *German* prelate, above any other, should still be VERY conscious of that! And many other valid points above. Look, if you can stomach it, at photos from any “LGBT Pride” parade: mostly white people, and white men at that, and the media wants to make very sure that we know how wealthy white gay men are since they don’t have kids to keep them down, gag, gag, gag…

  43. Venerator Sti Lot says:

    Fr Z asks, ” How that’s working out for the Anglicans now?”

    Well, here’s one way, in the words of George Conger: “At the close of the prayer of investitute of the Most Rev. Foley Beach at the Church of the Apostles on 9 Oct 2014, the primates of Kenya, Nigeria, Uganda, Rwanda, Myanmar, Jerusalem and the Middle East and South America, and bishops representing the primates of the Congo, Sudan and South East Asia laid hands on Archbishop Beach. Giving him their primatial blessing, they also acknowledged him by word and through laying on of hands to be a fellow primate of the Anglican Communion.” The majority of Anglicans in the world are members of these Provinces.

    At this same ceremony in Atlanta, Georgia, Gregory Venables said, “many of you know that in Argentina up until last year we had a very, very, very wonderful personal and close working relationship with Cardinal Bergoglio. It was our joy and privilege to work with him and walk together with him in the Gospel, because our brother is a Bible-believing, born again, Christ-centered Christian.

    “And he has asked me this evening, in fact he wrote to me just a few days ago and said: when you go to the United States, please in my name give my personal congratulations and greetings to Archbishop Foley and assure him of my prayers and support at this moment and in the future as he leads the church in this very important moment of revival and mission.”

    These are Anglicans who affirm orthodox natural law and Biblical morality where same-sex practice is involved.

    If Gregory Venables is correct in his perception of the Holy Father, perhaps he is simply of one mind with the African Synod Fathers and will yet make this clear to all!

  44. Augustine Thompson O.P. says:

    New addition to the Relatio

    51b. Africans have gifts and qualities to offer to the Christian community: are we capable of welcoming these people, guaranteeing to them a fraternal space in our synods? Often they wish to encounter a Church that offers them a welcoming home. Are our synods capable of providing that, accepting and valuing their misguided sexual morality, without compromising the secular post-modern reconsecration of the family and matrimony?

    Sorry, I just couldn’t help myself . . .

  45. acardnal says:

    The Rhine flows into the Tiber . . .again….50 years later.

  46. Penta says:

    I thought racism was a sin. Or is it not a sin for Cardinals?

  47. anna 6 says:

    Fr. Augustine:

    Absolutely brilliant!!! First time I have laughed in days.

  48. Choirgirl says:

    robtbrown:

    “As I have said before, this is about the power of the regional/national bishops’ conferences.”

    IMO, in this case, it has more to do with Kasper’s desire to drop Africa like a hot rock.

  49. Johnno says:

    Penta – “I thought racism was a sin. Or is it not a sin for Cardinals?”

    You must understand that Cardinal Kasper is in an imperfect state of development moving gradually towards full union with the Church on issues of racism. We cannot expect to hold him to so high a standard in this day and age. Such heroic virtues are not for everyone. Kasper should be welcomed with sensitivity and pastoral care to guarantee him a fraternal space in our communities as we discern a realistic path for him of affective growth and human and evangelical maturity integrating the racial dimension which will be an important educative challenge. Nor is it acceptable that pressure be brought to bear on on us or any organization to make financial aid dependent on the introduction of regulations inspired by Eugenics ideology. It should be noted that there are cases in which racial bias to the point of segregation constitutes a precious support in the life of the higher evolved class. The Church pays special attention to the offspring of such pure blood couples, and their genetics must always be given priority.

  50. I say, old chaps, we can’t have the natives telling us what to do, what? Damn wallahs. Next thing they’ll be wanting to run their own countries!

    [quaffs chota peg; casts bloodshot eye over latest copy of The Times, six weeks old]

  51. Charles E Flynn says:

    Years ago, at a parish from which I later moved, an African cardinal was invited to speak. I wish I had made a note of his name. I am fairly certain he was Cardinal Arinze, and I recall thanking him after mass and thinking that we would be blessed if he became the first pope from Africa. There is no doubt that Cardinal Arinze has visited Rhode Island.

    After searching for “Cardinal Arinze Rhode Island” and not finding proof that he had visited my former parish, I decide to search for “Cardinal Arizne orthodox”. Here is what I found:

    From “The “New Orthodoxy” of Dissent: Cardinal Arinze’s Georgetown Address”:

    Cardinal Arinze is the highest-ranking African prelate in the Church and is often mentioned as a possible future pope. But amazingly, according to his critics, he has no right to appear at a professedly Catholic university and, almost in passing, affirm official Catholic doctrine. The dissenters have moved from claiming the right to disagree to insisting that no one has a right to affirm Catholic teachings. Orthodox ideas are not to be protected against the attacks of dissenters, but dissenters are to be protected even from the mildest affirmations of orthodoxy. – See more at: http://www.wf-f.org/JFH-Georgetown%26Dissent.html#sthash.EMAzo8BO.dpuf

  52. Mum26 says:

    I remember clearly Pope Francis’ first Angelus address: http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1301237.htm

    He refers to Card. Kasper twice in the first half of the address and mentions favorably Card. Kasper’s book “Mercy”.

    I instantly grew suspicious.

  53. Pingback: Cardinal Kasper, Divorce, What is a traditional Catholic to believe?Catholic Xray, a penetrating view of modern Catholicism | Catholic Xray, a penetrating view of modern Catholicism

  54. Pingback: Morning Catholic must-reads: 16/10/14 | CHRONICA

  55. anamaria says:

    ¡¡Whoah!! Is cardenal Kasper ever in trouble!! Did he just said in a public interview that you can´t talk with muslims???? Isn´t that totally against Pope Francis and his effort with “ecuminical dialogue”??? I´m sure Pope Francis is going to make him plant a tree soon…

  56. pattif says:

    I don’t think +Kasper’s comments are racist, although they lay him open to that charge. Nor do I think he is principally motivated by compassion for those who have divorced and attempted civil remarriage. Like robtbrown, I think he is playing another game entirely.

    Remember the epic row between Cardinals Kasper and Ratzinger in the 1990s about ontological and temporal priority as between particular churches and the Universal Church? Eventually +Kasper had to back down (not least because his opponent was then Prefect of the CDF), but I don’t think he ever gave up. I think the big prize for him now would be a shift towards autocephalic national churches; everything else is subordinate to that.

  57. Imrahil says:

    There’s no need to comment much here.

    I’d like to just throw in two little corrective cents in here.

    1. It is not racism but civilizational supremacism. Racism (which is a hard accusation) refers to qualities being naturally unchangeable and related to skin color. This is not seen here. He does talk in an undertone of “these backwarded Africans”, but there’s nothing positively to suggest he couldn’t in the same mood have said “these backwarded villagepeople from the Bavarian forest”. So, benefit of the doubt I’d say.

    Of course, actually considering people irrelevant just because they are backwarded, even if they are, does not seem the height of charitability (modestly speaking). As is considering people backwarded that aren’t. But I’d give him the benefit of the doubt on the specific charge of racism.

    2. Dear HeatherPA, the claim is not properly that they are apostate, but that they are schismatic and excommunicate, and at any rate not complying with a grave duty. And if you’d know what you have to do so that the Church tax isn’t automatically cut off your salary, you’d not consider the claim ridiculuous that they’re schismatic. Which is, you have to appear at the registrary and sign a paper that reads “I do hereby leave the Catholic Church”.

  58. mrshopey says:

    “The Catholic Church in Nigeria has been at the forefront in fighting discrimination towards persons with same-sex attraction, says Archbishop Ignatius Kaigama of Jos, who adds that media coverage of the Church has been imbalanced.”
    http://www.ewtnnews.com/catholic-news/Vatican.php?id=10933
    “The Catholic Church is in the forefront of defending them,” he said, “and we would defend any person with a homosexual orientation who has been harassed, who has been imprisoned, who has been punished.”

    The archbishop criticized the media for focusing on the Church’s defense of marriage between a man and a woman, while ignoring the Church’s advocacy against discrimination towards persons with same-sex attraction.”

  59. collarboy says:

    Patti,
    I am a Pastoral Provision priest (former Episcopal minister) and agree with you. The “local option” strategy of the liberals in Anglicanism destroyed the communion one diocese at a time leading to one province at a time. I worry that many other of the strategies undid Anglicanism appear to be on the table.

  60. Legisperitus says:

    At least this whole sordid mess is bringing the fifth column out into the open… and also revealing which bishops will remain faithful to Christ even at personal cost.

  61. Kirk O says:

    I hope my discernment is working right on this on. I keep getting that Pope Francis wanted this synoid in order to bring all the opions out in the open (at least between the bishops), then all will know where eachother stands. He will then come back and reafirm the Church teachings (which can not change anyway) on these subjects. He will not change anything but he will instruct us on how to administer these teachings with love and maybe get rid of the politics behind the issues. The Church needs to learn how to explain Her views better and this should be the first step in doing that.

  62. Venerator Sti Lot says:

    Hmm…
    I’ve just learned that the Synod includes fraternal guests, one of whom is Anglican and has been interviewed:

    http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2014/10/15/an_anglican_outsider_shares_insights_at_the_synod/1108674

    as well as blogging about the Synod:

    http://bishoppaulbutler.wordpress.com/

    – with more details about practical features than I’ve happened to encounter before now.

  63. Toan says:

    I appreciate the interviewer in this article. He noticed Card. Kasper saying something notable, asked the same question again to confirm, and then said, “what changed?”

    I suspect the African bishops are making Card Kasper angry somehow, to the point where he is being less guarded in his speech.

  64. Kirk O says:

    Could this video by Cardnial Dolan be in response to Cardnial Kasper? I usually wonder whete Cardnial Dolan is coming from but this video gives me hope in him.

    http://cardinaldolan.org/index.php/church-in-africa/

  65. Father G says:

    His Eminence is now saying that he never spoke to Zenit and never made the comments: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/theanchoress/2014/10/16/re-kasper-and-africa-hold-everything-jo-jitsu/

    Curiouser and curiouser.

  66. CradleRevert says:

    Is the interview (which has now been pulled and is denied having ever taken place by Cardinal Kasper) a possible reason for the Cardinal’s absence from the synod this morning?

    My, what an interesting week.

  67. everett says:

    Here’s Edward Pentin’s statement on that interview, including the recording and transcript of it:

    http://edwardpentin.co.uk/statement-on-cardinal-kasper-interview/

  68. Elizabeth R says:

    The interviewer, Edward Pentin, stands by the interview and has posted an audio recording of it on his web site. http://edwardpentin.co.uk/statement-on-cardinal-kasper-interview/

  69. HeatherPA says:

    What in the world!?!
    Please, someone over there needs to pray some serious deliverance prayers for this Cardinal. Bald faced, easily proven lying by a Cardinal?
    Just wow.

  70. Kirk O says:

    Satan is the Father of Lies. So one should not be suprised when one who follows these lies, that they too will tend to lie. All in order to further the lies planted by Satan originaly. What an ugly circle.

  71. OrthodoxChick says:

    Charles E. Flynn,

    If Holy Name is your parish, then yes, it was Cardinal Arinze. Here’s a link to an article that is no longer on the Projo website, but it was definitely lifted from Projo. I know because the daughter of this article’s author was a classmate and friend of mine back in high school in Little Rhody.

    http://www.africamasterweb.com/USVisaLottery/VisaLotVertical12.html

    And this link is from the RI Catholic:

    http://www.thericatholic.com/news/detail.html?sub_id=4376

  72. Charles E Flynn says:

    @OrthodoxChick,

    Thanks for the links. It was interesting to see that Cardinal Arinze knows a member of the staff at Memorial Hospital, which is close to where I live now.

    The parish at which I saw an African cardinal was St. Martha’s, in the Riverside section of East Providence. So far, I have been unable to confirm whether Cardinal Arinze visited St. Martha’s. Whoever he was, he was most impressive.

  73. OrthodoxChick says:

    Charles E. Flynn,

    I think St. Martha’s is in Rumford, isn’t it? I believe Fr. Jude used to be pastor there. He was the pastor of my childhood (at a different parish). Holy Name is a great parish too, and a stone’s throw from Pawtucket. I went to my very first EF Mass there in the beautiful chapel. Wish I lived closer so I could become a regular. Fr. Santos is a wonderful priest!

    http://holynameprovidence.org/

  74. The Cobbler says:

    It just occurred to me that Cardinal Kasper and Pope Francis both have a habit of saying things to reporters and interviewers that they probably should know better than to say… but at least Pope Francis doesn’t turn around and try to hide it!

  75. Sconnius says:

    In another update, the Cardinal is back at it. Denying he said anything, denying that an interview even took place, complaining that journalistic standards are terrible. The article is in German, but the google translation doesn’t take anything away from the tone of the piece. I don’t see how he gets out of this…
    http://www.kath.net/news/47968

  76. Maineman1 says:

    “From a priest friend:

    A few years ago Cardinal Kasper compared London to a Third World country.”

    Well, no offense, but London is becoming a Third World country, replete with beheadings by machete and ISIS plotters galore.

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