Meanwhile, an Italian bishop had something interesting to say.
I hope the Maltese read this after the way their bishops went to the zoo. HERE
This is an Emeritus Archbishop… so no one can do anything to him, if you get my drift.
At Express:
‘Everyone will be Muslim because of our stupidity’ Catholic leader blasts ‘WEAK’ church
A PROMINENT figure in the Catholic church has controversially suggested that everyone will “soon be Muslim” because Italy lives in an increasingly secular society amid rapidly growing migration figures.
Monsignor Carlo Liberati, an Italian Archbishop, [Emeritus of Pompei and of the Marian Sanctuary] gave the warning after observing the growing number of detention centres opening up in Europe, suggesting it was a sure fire way to have the Islamic faith become mainstream.
He said: “In 10 years we will all be Muslims because of our stupidity. Italy and Europe live in a pagan and atheist way, they make laws that go against God and they have traditions that are proper of paganism.
“All of this moral and religious decadence favours Islam.”
He added: “We have a weak Christian faith. The Church nowadays does not work well and seminaries are empty.
“Parishes are the only thing still standing. We need a true Christian life. All this paves the way to Islam. In addition to this, they have children and we do not. We are in full decline.”
[…]
Thanks be to God for this Archbishop. He is saying what needs to be said.
Years ago, I asked an American bishop what he thought about the state of the Church. “TERRIBLE!”, he rumbled. “What”, I asked, “should we do about it?” “The first thing we have to do is stop blowing happy gas at everyone!”… or words to that effect.
Right now it seems that only retired will stand up.
The moderation queue is ON. Of course.
Loading ...
“…moral and religious decadence …”
Finally, some straight talk. God bless him.
Thank God for the wisdom of later years. The “retired” Archbishop and others like him are exercising their priestly ministry despite being put OUT to pasture.
The Holy Spirit is alive and well in these fearless priests.
I pray for them to mentor a younger priest. Teaming up these elders with the newly ordained sounds like a plan. ooRAH!
A good first step — alluded to by the Archbishop — is for Christians to stop contracepting and aborting themselves out of existence.
Thank you Father Z for these last posts. Their are a great many Catholics praying for those that have the care of souls, to find their voice, and staff and put them to work, no matter the cost.
May God be praised in His faithful servants.
St. Edmund Campion: Pray for us
St. Thomas More Pray for us.
St. Margaret Clitherow Pray for us
The retired are the only ones to speak up? So what are the others so afraid of and how can we cure them of it? And who – and I mean specifically- are the people who hold the awful power over everyone? I see so many talking about it, but rarely actually examples of the perpetrators who cause our priests to live in fear. So whilst the spiders spin their webs and our little flies try to avoid getting caught in them, the rest of us swing in the wind.
It’s gonna be some scene on judgment day.
I promise that in 10 years I will not be a Muslim. And it seems that the retired clergy are the ones most able to speak up because they have little to lose. We see what happens to those not retired when they are marginalized, demoted, ridiculed, etc. : that takes the most courage! Those are the ones who are willing to sacrifice everything for the truth. Does not appear to be many of them; it is far easier to go with the flow and what “the world ” wants to hear. The present attack on marriage and family is not reserved to the secular world.
The retired are likely the only ones to speak up because those in active ministry have witnessed what Francis and his ilk will do to people who act against them. They live in fear. They live in fear of being sacked, publicly calumniated, and/or transfered to the middle of nowhere. What the heck is wrong with the Church…
In the sweep of history, it was not long ago that the Muslim tide nearly engulfed Europe. Then and now, there has been one sure refuge: Our Blessed Mother, Our Lady of Lepanto, Our Lady of Victory.
I have not said her Rosary as often as I should (even though I have a wonderful Combat Rosary that accompanies me every time I leave the house.) I will redouble my efforts in that area, and I urge others to do the same.
Given a choice between the atheistic materialism of the Western academy and the faith of devout Muslims, I’d choose the latter any day. I worked for years among Muslims, and I’d throw my lot in with any one of them before I’d trust an abortionist, relativist, LGBT-ideologist “Christian” with the keys to my 1996 TOYOTA Corolla.
Don’t bother trying to explain to me the evils of Islam, dear friends: It’s time to root out the evil in our own house!
As then Cardinal Ratzinger put it in a series of interviews with Italian journalist Vittorio Messori, “one has encountered dissension [in the church] which … seems to have passed over from self-criticism to self-destruction.”
Benedict Joseph, Sofia DeCesare et al: Well said.
SenexCalvus: You make a good point. However, I’d like to expand on your comment regarding devout Muslims as allies, having myself worked and socialized among devout Muslims in the US and abroad. Some devout Muslims are allies and some of them are definitely not. No doubt you would agree that it is helpful to know something of their attitude toward Sharia law, their disposition toward the West, their favorite Muslim theologians etc.
Michael: Amen.
Semper Gumby,
I see in Muslims allies insofar as they understand that the world we inhabit is cosmos, not chaos. In other words, they share our belief that creation is revelatory of God’s providential and rational nature. If a Muslim were to assert, for example, that 2+2=5, it would be to defend His absolute transcendence and sovereignty, not, as in case of nihilists of Fr. Spadaro’s ilk, man’s license to fabricate meaning according to his lower nature. What I mean by this is that Muslims tend to understand the vocabulary and syntax, if you will, of the created order. Muslims agree that the Logos can be discerned in every aspect of creation, even though they might express it in another way.
Does their Sharia differ in irreconcilable ways from Christian morality? Yes. Do I think we share the same vision of God’s will for the world? Not at all. On what basis, then, do I claim a closer kinship between Muslims and Christians than between Christians and Western atheists, with whom we enjoy so much more superficial affinity?
That’s not a question I can tackle on my iPhone. At this late hour, the best analogy I can think of is the classic movie ZULU. At the unsuccessful conclusion to their assault on a numerically insignificant yet courageous British remnant, the superior Zulu army abandons its campaign with a magnanimous salute to their enemy’s valor. What do the opposing forces share in common? A belief in something far greater than the satisfaction of their bellies, loins, or vanities, I’d argue. In a world that prizes nothing more than the satisfaction of animal desires, such commonality as we may enjoy with Muslims may be more than I can capture in words.
I’ll end, then, with an anecdote from my own life. I was once deliberating with a Christian friend whether I should accept a proposal to go into business with a Muslim colleague. My friend was vehemently opposed: “You know he’d kill you if he felt he had to,” he said. “Yes,” I replied, “and that’s why I know I can trust him.”
You either get it or you don’t.
Senex, I agree completely. I would rather live next door to a Moslem than a traditionalist Catholic. I say that as someone who has not just “socialized among” Moslems. [?!?] I also say that as someone who has been abused by traditionalists in a very striking way. And the argument “they are not really Catholic” doesn’t fly. They are proud of this traditionalism which is hypocritical, sneaky, and underhanded. [?!?] A Moslem, in their equivalent, would not have allowed me to go unbaptized just for fun or a power trip. They have other power trips, but not where salvation is concerned.
It is high time for the Church to clean itself up.
[That sort of generalization is unacceptable.]
SenexCalvus: I agree, that Zulu movie is classic. There is some debate about whether that salute scene in the movie is a historical event. I prefer, like you, that the Zulu’s salute did occur. Though my guess is that the salute was done ritually out of respect for the military prowess displayed by the British rather than shared beliefs between Zulu and Briton.
You make a good point about Sharia being irreconcilable with Christian morality. Regarding your point about a Muslim asserting 2+2=5, I would suggest that the majority of Muslims would say that Allah could arbitrarily express his will so that 2+2 could in fact equal 5. I differ from your position on the matter of Muslims and the Logos, with Benedict XVI’s Regensburg Address summing up my position.
Your comment is intriguing, and brings to mind a Muslim overseas who patiently attempted to convert me to Islam- though I would not presume that is the case with your situation. Cheers.
Semper Gumby,
Can we blame Muslims for trying to share with others what they prize most, namely, the peace that comes from submission to God? No. Can we blame today’s Catholic missionaries, such as the ones I studied with for three years, for trying to share with others what they prize most, namely, the peace that comes from economic development and just government?
The difference between post-Vatican II evangelization and the preaching of a St. Paul or St. Francis Xavier is that the good news has been swapped for “better, more inclusive” news.
As for the Logos comment, I have read in numerous Islamic sources that the same Arabic word ‘ayat’ signifies both the signs of God’s handiwork in nature and the verses of the Quran. This is obviously suggestive of, though certainly not identical with, our theology of the Word of God. I think Muslims would have no difficulty viewing the complementarity of the sexes, for example, as revelatory of God’s plan for mankind, and I somehow doubt that school children in Saudi Arabia will soon be granted access to the bathroom of the “gender” with which they identify.
I, too, like to think the salute happened, but I think the mutual respect for an enemy’s prowess is no less probable if it didn’t.
Thanks for your response, Semper Gumby!
SenexCalvus. Yours must be the attitude found in Europe today, and probably in some segments of the US, particularly in the Democrat Party. I hate to politicize your idea here, but in reality this is at least partly political.
Even if your personal theory were correct, that it would be preferable to throw in with Islam, it would still be madness to throw in. Why? Because in terms of numbers. If we are talking about the sheer volume of adherents to any faith, given the demographics, we, contracepting and aborting ourselves to smaller and smaller numbers, they, having large families of eight or so children, are certainly going to overwhelm and take over the Christian population, in any area. Europe has seen to it that they will be taken over. Someone good at mathematics can extrapolate the numbers out, but I doubt it would even take that long for Islam to be the dominant religion/political system given this reality.
Are you extremely well versed in religious history, to know for sure what tends to happen to Christianity and Christians, when Islam dominates? I refuse to believe it tends to be anything good, and I bet the Christians in Iraq and Syria would bear that out if they could, today. We don’t even have to go there, what do many Germans think today? Swedes? How can anyone believe living under Sharia is going to improve their lot in life. You can’t say, oh that will never happen. Of course it will.
There is a diabolical level of naivete or blindness going on today. Just as frightening as seeing a formidable enemy, maybe more so, is confronting the unpleasant knowledge that not everyone can or will identify him. I can’t even comprehend how anyone can look at current events and history and not understand this reality. After watching with great interest members of the Democrat Party in America, I have come to the conclusion that there are people who will not learn by the experiences of others, but must learn it themselves, personally. We tolerate or embrace Islam at our own peril, our families peril, our society’s peril, our culture’s peril, and our government’s peril. The typical god-hating atheist is a problem, but they are still formed by a Western mindset, even if they don’t know it. They can’t avoid it! This is not so for Islam and adherents.
My fellow Readers,
What I have posted above has proven to be inadequate to the thoughts I tried to convey. For this failing, I own responsibility. If my posts don’t advance the Gospel, I repudiate them. Such misunderstandings can be blamed on no one but me, and I therefore apologize for them!
SenexCalvus
Senex Calvus: Thank you for your response. A few brief observations if I could.
– Sharing the “peace that comes from submission to God” is one thing, dividing the world into the Dar alIslam (the House of Submission to Allah) and the Dar alHarb (House of War or the Battlefield), along with the goal of worldwide Sharia law, is altogether different.
-The Arabic word “Ayat” or its singular “Ayah” seems to me in no way suggestive of the Christian Logos, though I’d be sincerely interested in a detailed comparison. Here’s Pope Benedict XVI at Regensburg: “Logos means both reason and word – a reason which is creative and capable of self-communication, precisely as reason.”
– As for complementarity of the sexes and Islam, it seems Koranic abrogation and many fatwas (or perhaps the revocation of many fatwas) would be in order first. Cheers.
Semper Gumby,
I wish we could discuss these topics over a beer or two, but until that happy day, I’ll have to content myself with a brief reply to your objections.
— Concerning the Islamic division of the world in twain, I am reminded of certain papal bulls from the 15th and 16th centuries, DUM DIVERSAS chief among them, that granted papal authority for the subjugation and enslavement of non-Christian peoples to the Catholic monarchs of Spain and Portugal. That the Christian nations of the world, both Catholic and (ironically) Protestant, subsequently did so is perhaps best illustrated by a map of the globe circa 1939, the apex of European imperialism. How many majority-Muslim regions, I wonder, were at that time under the imperial rule of a Christian state? And under an Islamic state? Hmm, a difference in theology or technology?
— If my admittedly unsubstantiated proposal that traditional Islamic theology sees in all of creation signs of God’s handiwork does not convince you, I rejoice! Consider it an invitation to read the writings of Muslims themselves. They alone can speak for their tradition, not the Western academics, of whatever stripe, who purport to do so.
— Your third point is one that I shall abstain from addressing for the simple reason that to do so would require dredging up all the iniquities of our own sinful past. Muslim societies have not — and do not! — accorded women the dignity that God wills, but neither have we Christians. If I propose to remove the speck from my Muslim brother’s eye, I shall first have to remove the plank from my own.
I wish you all the best, Semper Gumby!
SC
Senux Calvus: My response of 17 January was to your post of 17 Jan 6:16am, due to the moderation queue I did not see your post of 17 Jan. 4:52 pm until today. I appreciate and thank you for your post of 17 Jan. 4:52 pm.
Thank you for your invitation, but I have indeed read the writings of various Muslims, listened to various imams, and spent a considerable amount of time in the Middle East. I cordially invite you to read the Regensburg Address. Then there is also David Pryce-Jones’ The Closed Circle, among many other books on Islam and the Middle East well worth your time. True, Pryce-Jones is a Westerner, but with extensive experience in the Middle East. Edward Said et al, who you probably have read, have notably failed in their efforts to honestly critique Islam or Arab society. Muslims, Jews, and Christians in the Middle East are the worse off because of the dishonesty and hostility of Edward Said et al.
Speaking of Edward Said, the usual list of grievances against the Church from centuries ago simply do not compare to, and are meant to distract from, the fatwas on, for example, FGM that are published today and practiced on many young girls today.
Several good authors who are an antidote to the Edward Said crowd are Faoud Ajami and Amir Taheri. Cheers.