The Saturno… always good for a photo

18 Comments

1. Roman Sacristan says:

   15 November 2006 at 6:01 PM

   Father, is there any thing like “birettaquette” for a Saturno?
   And do you have (or know where) the things to know for “birettaquette” are?
   I haven’t seen anything like that in any Novus Ordo documents, so what older documents would I have to look at? Old Ceremonial of Bishops? Did the Tridentine even have anythihng like a GIRM?
2. Roman Sacristan says:

   15 November 2006 at 6:01 PM

   Would that be “Saturnaquette?”
3. Fr. John Zuhlsdorf says:

   15 November 2006 at 6:06 PM

   Roman Sacristan: Thanks for using my neologism! Some years ago I wrote a little guide on birettaquette, but I have no idea where it is. As to the Saturno, you would use it in the same way a gentleman would use his hat. When passing someone, for example, you might slightly tip it. When speaking to someone as they stood in front of you, you would remove it. As a matter of fact, I recall once having conversations out of doors with the great [Archbp.] Luigi de Magistris, who wears his saturno when out and around. He will stand with his hat removed and help before his chest for the duration. Surely he did this for respect for the character of priesthood of the man in front of him, though normally men who know each other well don\’t remove their hats for each other.  There is nothing special, I think, about the use of the saturno beyond what a gentleman normally does with his hat.   There were probably some differences of continental and English hat etiquette, but they would be, I think, pretty much the same.

   The general principles are that hats are removed in places of worship or in dwellings and put on in public places or places that are consider \”outdoors\”, such as a hallway or elevator, unless someone enters who requires that a gentleman remove his hat.
4. Thomas says:

   15 November 2006 at 6:25 PM

   “along with other hats more than a few clerics of my acquaintance would like to have, alas.”

   Bravo! Good one. That red one would look good on you (GDR).
5. Fr Raymond Blake says:

   15 November 2006 at 6:33 PM

   Surely, if in the presence of someone who has removed his hat, to speak to you, or for that matter is bareheaded, it would be only be polite to remove one’s own hat, either saturno or baseball: but I am English.

   With indoor hats such as the biretta or a smoking cap behaviour is slightly different, depending on whether one is or is not in one’s own house.
6. Jon says:

   15 November 2006 at 7:06 PM

   Father Z,

   Excuse me for throwing a wrench into the sartorial discussion, but have you seen this? http://timescolumns.typepad.com/gledhill/2006/11/pope_throws_ope.html

   It’s from the gal who started the latest indult rumor. Interesting, if true. Look especially at the second to last paragraph.

   As you know, the Holy Father is meeting with curial cardinals tomorrow to discuss both the indult and the “Milingo crisis.” I had no idea that the two topics could possibly be linked with the Anglican Use, but apparently they can.

   Thoughts? I’ll wait for you to create another thread, if you’d like, of course, before adding my own.
7. Florestan says:

   15 November 2006 at 7:07 PM

   Judging from what’s in the store window, your clerical acquaintances seem to be coveting higher offices, Father. ;)
8. Andrew of the Holy Whapping says:

   15 November 2006 at 7:10 PM

   Seeing them in store windows is fine and good, Father, but have you seen any on clerical heads?
9. MJ says:

   15 November 2006 at 8:59 PM

   I have a cleric friend here in the venerable diocese of Lincoln that wears the saturno. He also wears the cassock at all times.
10. Jon says:

    15 November 2006 at 9:42 PM

    Father and Andrew,

    Drat! The Whapsters beat me to that Times article. I thought I’d discovered something hot by sleuthing those UK sites, but now I see those pesky kids got there first.

    Hat tip to Andrew, et. al. (gotta remember my Internet manners).
11. Andrew of the Holy Whapping says:

    15 November 2006 at 10:01 PM

    Jon,

    In all fairness, the article was emailed to me by an Anglican friend.
12. Fr. John Zuhlsdorf says:

    15 November 2006 at 10:10 PM

    Jon: Dunno. Her comments have impressed me so far.
13. Fr. John Zuhlsdorf says:

    15 November 2006 at 10:11 PM

    Florestan: Sadly, yes. I guess so.
14. Fr. Totton says:

    16 November 2006 at 12:35 AM

    Fr. Z. Is the Saturno the same thing as the Capello Romano?
15. Fr Martin Fox says:

    16 November 2006 at 3:46 AM

    Fr Z:

    Have you a Saturno, and do you wear it regularly?
16. Fr. John Zuhlsdorf says:

    16 November 2006 at 8:28 AM

    Fr. Totton: Yes, it is the same thing as the Roman hat.
17. Fr. John Zuhlsdorf says:

    16 November 2006 at 8:30 AM

    Fr. Martin Fox: I have two, one smooth and the other like the one in the photo. However, I don’t usually wear it since most of the time here I am in a suit, rather than my cassock, when I am out and about.
18. Alex says:

    17 November 2006 at 11:25 AM

    Es geht nicht um den Hut, sondern um die Arbeit. I hope wearing these nostalgic hats (which are nót necessary), will inspire others to do nécessary things. That is: celebrate the Traditional Roman Rite (“Tridentine”) Mass and preach eternal Roman Catholic doctrine (and then I don’t mean presenting every decree of Vatican II as a “divine counterlight” blowing away the Council of Trent, Florence and Ferrara, or Vatican I). That’s needed. Even in Rome. Still many churches there refuse to allow visiting priests to say the true Mass of the Diocese of Rome.

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