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Judging from the photo, the biological solution will take care of this in about 10-20 years.
except maybe for the “deacon”?, third from the right.
Why is the one on the end not “vested”? Must be an extraordinary minister of the Eucharist!
“Why is the one on the end not “vested”?”
She’s probably “Sister Someone-or-Other”. I think she’s “married” to the lady front and center [just kidding!! ; 0 ] This is really sad. I’m going to tell myself that they are Episcopalians.
“American woman…. stay away from me,ee,eeee…..”
They seem a little old to be playing dress-up.
Please tell me this isn’t our future? What an odd looking bunch.
I’m surprised noone has commented on wearing the stoles over the chasubles… disgraceful!
What a thing to post the day after St Theresa of Avila.
“I’m surprised noone has commented on wearing the stoles over the chasubles… disgraceful!”
Something tells me these gals aren’t sticklers for doing things in the proper manner.
amfortas, it is not my future. Should they ever be validated, I shall find my way to the FSSP.
They look like an ad for the worst in vestments.
wmeyer, never fear. They will never be what they think they want to be.
wmeyer: save me a space in the pew, ok?
Sissy, I know. For one thing, they are not in their right minds. ;)
Bryan, I shall.
I’m disappointed. Where are the ordination tambourines?
Well, God bless their hearts, I hope they will contemplate the gravity of rejecting communion with the Successor of Peter, and simulating sacraments.
Happy Halloween, ladies!
Apparently the only one who is aware of the fact that it’s Ordinary Time is the “deaconess.” And the one on the end needs to be told that blue is NOT a liturgical color, even if it is a fiddleback!
TNCath: Every day is Pentecost for them. They’re the new outpouring of the whatever.
Looks like a bunch of cross dressers
Looks like they are wearing Confirmation stoles from the 70’s. If it were not sad, it would be funny!
wmeyer: I’ll bring a couple of inscribed books from Msgr. Wrenn to share while we wait for the fury to die down outside…;)
Halloween is fast approaching. They look happy with their new costumes. A few of those plastic pumpkins and they’re all set.
Seriously, this ” biological solution” argument is no comfort to me. There is always at least one young woman who buys into this, possibly for her own agenda of feminist rights, and she will find others of her generation who will join her, for their own self- righteous reasons. This will not stop until the Church stops them- completely and unequivocally. Let them go off and do their own thing, but they can’t be allowed to continue like this.
Bryan, I have his books, sans inscription. Do you have any conjecture on the authorship of DOA: The ambush of the universal catechism? I find it hard to imagine it was written by anyone else….
Angie Mcs: I agree, partly because we are depending on the “biological solution” to too many evils.
I also agree with Angie Mcs, mostly because letting these women persist in their ridiculous delusions is cruel. They desperately need an intervention.
I almost spit out my soup when I saw the picture!
wmeyer: without breaking confidences, your suppositions are mostly correct. If we ever meet in person, I’ll relate some items which are better left to non-public venues. Some very interesting insights which didn’t make either of his Ignatius books, but nevertheless are highly contextual. The photo that started this all off is just one result of what was an unintended consequence.
Sorry, obese old women in comfortable shoes do not scare me.
Wonder what kind of pastoral training/experience they each have?
Or if any of them have paying jobs in ministry?
Or if this is only a weekend hobby for them?
Everyone here probably knows that I would be more open to the possibility than others, but to be perfectly honest of all the women I have worked with in ministry I can think of only three who were advocates of the ordination of women to the presbyterate, and frankly I would not choose to work with any of them in that capacity.
(1) Had an overblown sense of entitlement and horrible boundaries.
(2) Was very needy and had youth group kids to her house for overnights – acted sensuously/inappropriately while in conference.
(3) Excellent minister and wonderful person but often late, no-sho, ditching work, etc.
So, while ideologically I could live with the idea my hands-on experiences of aspirants have not been very good.
Fr. Jim. You say that you could “ideologically…live with the idea”. Do you mean that you could live with women’s ordination? If so, how do you reconcile your “tolerance” with the Church’s unchangeable doctrine on the all-male only priesthood?
Fr. Jim. You say that you could “ideologically…live with the idea”. Do you mean that you could live with women’s ordination? If so, how do you reconcile your “tolerance” with the Church’s unchangeable doctrine on the all-male only priesthood?
It really doesn’t matter because I neither expect nor want it to occur in my lifetime. And I don’t expect the Church to be perfect, so that reconciles the discrepancy enough for me.
[And thus openeth the rabbit hole.]
THE
LITTLE
CATHOLIC
HEN
Who’ll say Mass
Assumption Feast?
No longer done
Said parish priest.
Who will baptize
Little one?
More important
In-i-ti-a-tion.
The Catholic Faith
Please teach my child?
Not I, said nun born-
To-be-wild.
Who will help
Teach catechism?
Don’t call it that
It sounds like schism.
Who will hear
My child confess?
We’re all forgiven
More-or-less.
Who will give
The angels’ Bread?
Extra-ministers
Sue and Fred.
Confirm my teens
Their souls they’re losing?
That must be done
Of their own choosing.
So little mother
Walked away
Hating to
Look bold.
Never orphaned
Clung to Cross
Deposit – Faith
Her gold.
Then up above
On mountain top
A man in white
He stood.
Just one more Bishop
Who’ll try to stop…
Disorient
What’s good.
But Bishop lifted
Up her Cross
His sons helped
Bear the weight.
And Pilgrims in
Progressive lands
Continued in
Grace-state.
They handed down
What they were taught
Vocations now
They flourish
And others old
Who loved new-thought
Had only crust
To nourish.
But little mother
Saw their tears
Starving for
What’s true…
Come in, come in,
We’ve waited years…
His Bread’s in memory
For you!!!
“And I don’t expect the Church to be perfect, so that reconciles the discrepancy enough for me.”
When you assert that the Church’s teachings are “imperfect”, you are actually saying they are untrue. How can an “unchangeable doctrine” of the Church be imperfect?
“Priestess”….
Sounds kind of PAGAN, doesn’t it?
Sad picture for women everywhere. It’s so ridiculous I can’t stand it!
The Twelve
Petunia, Andrea, Jamie, Joanna plus the other 7 with Judas on the right and out of uniform.
They should bring to them a person dealing with demonic manifestations, and tell these women to get to work since you’re a “priest”.Should solve their little dilusions pretty quick.
AHHHHHHH!
You scared me with that top pic when I scrolled down.
“They should bring to them a person dealing with demonic manifestations”
I misread that at first to read “they should bring them to a PRIEST dealing with demonic manifestations”. I thought you were suggesting they need an exorcism. Come to think of it……..
Has anyone noticed the Gold Episcopal Sandals?!
They place great emphasis on disliking the “policies” and “authority” of the Church. Yet wear their stoles over the top of the chasuble, placing greater emphasis on the authority they believe they somehow have, compared to their supposed humility. Gah.
I think Father Jim hits on a good question about the real needs and motives involved in the women simulating holy orders. A lot of men pursuing the priesthood need to have their motives and intentions clarified and purified, and that happens through many years of formation in the seminary. If they are there for the wrong reasons, that is likely to surface, at least in a healthy and well run program–which, thanks be to God, more of our seminaries are pursuing.
But then, the whole business of these women premising their “priesthood” on their own claims to being called, and on a “right” to be ordained, sets it all up for failure, doesn’t it? I think few seminaries would tolerate a man seeking holy orders who talked that way.
It occurred to me that advocates of ordaining women (which is impossible) will say, oh but if we lifted the ban, that problem would be solved, because we’d be part of those formation programs. Balderdash. If advocates of women’s ordination took this really seriously, they’d make sure their candidates were subjected to as much scrutiny and formation as they could. It could be done–if it was deemed important to do.
I remember reading a story about Dagmar Celeste (yes, her real name), the former first lady of Ohio, who was one of the women “ordained” on either the Danube or the Saint Lawrence Rivers. She talked, strangely to me, of having a friend bring her communion surreptitiously from a local Catholic church. Huh? You claim to be a Catholic priest, and that you’re right and the pope’s minions are wrong. Why don’t you celebrate Mass, Rev. Dagmar?
Fr. Martin Fox points out a fundamental problem here: would people this disobedient ever bother to submit to any authority for years of formation in a seminary? But even assuming these women had perfect motives and spiritual formation, they would still be lacking in a critical quality, that is, they are not men. The sight of these poor women dressed up as “priests” is as ludicrous to me as a man wearing one of those fake pregnancy prostheses. It’s funny and pathetic all at the same time.
The one in the middle looks like a scrapbook. What’s the point of wymynprysts if there isn’t better fashion? I mean, really, ladies — get it together!
Not only are the tambourines missing – but where are those puppets? You know… those ones with the huge heads that always appear with those obnoxious rainbow banners?? And seriously… the Nuns-on-the-Bus missed their opportunity I think! LOL
On a more serious note… I have a few more people to add to my prayer list.
The one in the middle looks like a scrapbook.
She may give me nightmares. I bet she makes babies cry.
Fr. Fox is right on the money re. if ordination to the priesthood were something serious, there would be rigorous formation and time spent in discerning and fleshing out one’s calling.
I know a female Episcopal priest socially, and I also do some work at a medical institution which has female ministers in the Pastoral Care department — all learned and serious ordained ministers, who take what they believe to be their calling very seriously and who are wonderful with a wide range of patients. But they are clearly and openly Protestant, not Catholic, unlike the women above in the photo (who are members of the Association of Roman Catholic Women Priests).
Other demoninations can have female ministers and maybe they work for those denominations, but the Roman Catholic Church and its closely related Orthodox brethren cannot be clearer in what they believe: priests are men. And to just declare oneself a Roman Catholic priest not only is a slap in the face of the pope, the various patriarchs, the magisterium, the legions of loyal hard-working priests and religious, and the millions of female religious who served in many orders. It also, weirdly, a slap in the face of some of our separated Protestant cousins who actually tried to do things in what they saw was the right way in their denominations by at least taking their training and their vocation seriously.
If these women are Episcopalians, no problem. If they are Catholics, they have cut themselves off from the Church and are no longer in communion with the Holy See: big problem – for them. Why do these people not accept, and submit to, the authority of the Magisterium? I can’t get my head around why they want to be so disobedient.
iPadre says: Looks like they are wearing Confirmation stoles from the 70?s.
Yes! You are so right. I had forgotten about those.
Someone should tell them Halloween isn’t for two more weeks.
There are so many problems with this picture.
1) What is the liturgical color, green or red? It can’t be both ladies.
2) I think some of them are confused about the appropriate vesting order. Stoles go under the chasuble.
3) Are they trying to dress in choir? The ladies on either side of the main lady, appear to be wearing either white chasubles or those chasuble/alb things. The only time I have seen anything similar is at a monastery, where they wore them as albs when dressed in choir (there was no design on the front as these ladies seem to have).
4)I am unclear about the rules about the cincture, but obviously they are not wearing them, or maybe they are just fully aware of how much more frumpy/dumpy they would look with them?
YYYYYYIKES! looks like something my mind congers up at 3am after one too many egg rolls. Androgyny at its ugliest. Poor souls they jumped out of the Barque of Peter and are plummeting to the very depths of inequity, mocking Our Lords Priesthood to His face. what do they think awaits them at judgement?
Simon_GNR–“I can’t get my head around why they want to be so disobedient.”
in a word feminism, the bastard brain child of communism. There is an excellent sermon, on Audio Sancto, that i am sure will help you understand it better.
http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/20050109-The-Errors-of-Russia-How-They-Affect-Family-Life.html
If you make up new rules about becoming a priest, you can certainly make up new rules concerning the vestments. I think their motto is “Anything goes!” As wmeyer said above, these ladies are just playing dress up.
Do you think they would appreciate someone addressing them as priests by using the appropriate title?
E.g. “Why, hello there, Father Gladis, doesn’t that polyester stole go well on top of your amazing technicolour dreamchasuble! Though I must say, the bubblegum blue stoles Father Margaret and Father Susan were wearing last Sunday were fine too. They complemented the felt banners on the altar perfectly.”
The form of address “Father” is patriarchal and oppressive. Womynpriests prefer to be addressed as “Goddess”.
…revolting…
Just curious–do women attempting to be priests call themselves “Mother” instead of “Father”? What do Episcopalian priests do? “Mother” would seem fitting. I mean, if anything about this is fitting….
Legisperitus says:
16 October 2012 at 11:36 am
I’m disappointed. Where are the ordination tambourines?
And the drums. They love drums.
Luvadoxi, the female Episcopal priests that I’ve known asked for either “Mother” or “Gladys” (or whatever).
And when the opulently robed priestess swings her censer, someone comments: “That’s a lovely ensamble, Father Judy, but your purse is on fire!”
In fairness to the oddities of vesture in the picture, these ladies had bad example from actual priests. For reasons that make little sense to me, for some time, priests routinely wore the stole over the chasuble. It is less common than it used to be. I really can’t discover a better reason for this, than that the vestment designers thought it looked cool. Ironically, the chasuble is supposed to symbolize charity, and the stole, authority. Consider that.
Also, for whatever reason, priests “of a certain generation” routinely eschew cinctures. Again, I’m not sure for what purpose. I’ve heard some say, because their albs don’t need it; seeing the result, I’m unconvinced. Others say, because they are too fat; speaking for myself, I have expanded my bay window over the years, and I’m not sure that omitting the cincture really helps.
Thirdly, if any of the women see their vestments as making personal statements, or being some sort of fashion statements…while this gets more encouragement from Protestant practice, it is yet true that some Catholic clergy have also encouraged this trend.
The gals look like Christmas stockings. The ‘vestments’ look like Christmas tree skirts.
frjim4321 wrote:
“ideologically I could live with the idea [of women priests]”
As a priest of Jesus Christ, I cannot “ideologically … live with” anything that goes against the Will of Our Lord. I am very saddened by the fact that some of my brother-priests think otherwise. I do not judge/condemn them, but I will definitely pray for them.
sprachmeiste said – E.g. “Why, hello there, Father Gladis, doesn’t that polyester stole go well on top of your amazing technicolour dreamchasuble! Though I must say, the bubblegum blue stoles Father Margaret and Father Susan were wearing last Sunday were fine too. They complemented the felt banners on the altar perfectly.”
ROTFL
it’s simple..women have babies, men are priests….
I read that Bp Sullivan of Richmond said the first Mass in the EF at St Benedict’s in Chesapeake with his stole over the chasuble. That’s just awful.
I suppose they don’t even know what vestments they are supposed to be wearing, or what words they are supposed to use throughout the Mass…nor do they care. Someone, a long time ago on another post on this topic, mentioned 1 Corinthians 12:3 in reference to how these nutters lead their services, and it’s a very good point.
maybe we should send them a celebratory gift: a gift certificate for Weight Watchers.
Matt R said: “I read that Bp Sullivan of Richmond said the first Mass in the EF at St Benedict’s in Chesapeake with his stole over the chasuble. That’s just awful.”
That’s my diocese, Matt R. If you knew Bp Sullivan, you’d know the real surprise is that he celebrated an EF, not that he didn’t know how to properly vest.
What the grievous ?!
I’ve just got to add that y’all over here at Fr. Z’s are the wittiest bunch of people! Laughter is better than crying.
@Indulgentiam
Thanks for the link …
God bless …
How can an “unchangeable doctrine” of the Church be imperfect?
This goes to issues of (1) dissent and (2) reception.
There is a body of literature pertaining to these issues, particularly to the interesting view that the presence of significant dissent coupled with the general absence of reception calls the “unchangeability” of an extremely recent proclaimed stance if not into question as least under some small degree of scrutiny. Historically there don’t seem to be any immutable teachings that were not enthusiastically accepted and ratified by the sense of the faithful. I can’t think of any.
That being said, as I’ve confessed here in the past I’m not going to stand up in the pulpit and preach for the ordination of women nor am I going to spin my wheels promoting it. I think it is a waste of time and energy trying to change things that are out of my control.
For example, one of the greatest insights I was ever led to (years ago) was, “I am not the pastor – I am not going to change the pastor.” Now, it is “I am not the bishop, I am not going to change the bishop,” and “I am not the pope, I am not going to change the pope.” There are very liberating concepts.
I think my hair would be thicker and darker if I had come to those realizations much sooner.
“There is a body of literature pertaining to these issues, particularly to the interesting view that the presence of significant dissent coupled with the general absence of reception calls the “unchangeability” of an extremely recent proclaimed stance if not into question as least under some small degree of scrutiny.”
I don’t think Jesus’s example could be called a “recently proclaimed stance”, Father. The rest of your statement is dissenter nonsense, and you know it. We do not take a vote on Church teachings and change according to the whims of the current generation.
@AnnAsher – “I’ve just got to add that y’all over here at Fr. Z’s are the wittiest bunch of people! Laughter is better than crying.”
Sadly the wit is often a cover, as it has been in this topic, for some very uncharitable cheap shots.
…for some very uncharitable cheap shots.
What cheap shots, Jerry? An example of what you are calling a cheap shot would be helpful.
I have to ask… What is that thing hanging around the “high priestess'” neck?
Katheryn-
It’s a St Brigid’s cross.
Sadly, allot of feminists and Wiccans have appropriated Celtic symbolism -much to the chagrin of faithful Christians of Irish and Scots heritage.
Kinda like the appropriation of the rainbow :-(
Those concerned with the lack of a cincture, it would make sense for them to forego one. They don’t believe in priestly chastity, there is no need for them to be girdled to protect such. Though, I have noticed that many priests of a certain age range don’t wear them either. Sometimes I think it’s time for a vesting refresher course the next time they have priest study days or whatever.
APX:
There are priests of a certain age who, for lack of a better way to put it, just don’t care. It’s so odd. If you said to them, do you agree with Vatican II that the Mass is the “source and summit,” etc.? They’d say of course. Yet they don’t care about cruddy vestments, not vesting properly, cheap items used in the Mass, playing fast-and-loose with the rubrics; their homilies are mush…what, precisely, is it that reflects your reverence and respect for the Mass?
This is one more manifestation of the insanity that gripped us for several decades, that said churches must be ugly, vestments must be ugly, devotions must go, the tabernacle must be hidden, anything beautiful that people loved from before must go, must be destroyed and salt sown in those fields so nothing grows there again.
This just occurred to me. I spent 10 years away from the Catholic Faith, as an Evangelical, some of that time with folks who were pretty anti-Catholic. And many of them (and I with them, for awhile) abhorred anything that savored of Catholicism, even something as simple as making the sign of the cross. Several years along, when I got past my own bout of anti-Catholicism, it occurred to me to ask: what’s so terrible about the sign of the cross? I.e., no matter how convinced an Evangelical or Protestant you may be, on what reasonable basis do you object to it? There is none.
Leaving only one explanation.
In support of the wise Fr. Martin:
“Scripture gives considerable evidence to prove that a priest begins to fail his priesthood when he fails in his love of the Eucharist. ” Bishop Fulton Sheen
An example of what you are calling a cheap shot would be helpful.
To avoid calling out specific posts, I’ll just suggest that you look for the responses which ridicule the individuals rather than address the topic, which is to say most of them.
I know of all the offical reasons why only men can be ordained. My personal reason is: only men put the fear of God into me (holy fear) and that is what I need in confession. To me, men = voice of authority. I know that is very sexist of me, but I had a feminist mother and I still didn’t buy the hype.
On the flip side, don’t these women know that there is not such thing as sin? Why do we need priests then? Just to lead the singing? Sin was just an invention to put fear into people and keep them oppressed. They really need to get with the times.
What a silly bunch.
Let me guess: that’s a typical Catholic church choir, right? They should lose the silly sashes though.
Speaking of the “biological solution”: I was having lunch with a friend of mine a while back, and he complained that all the young priests being ordained in the last ten years or so were “SO traditional!”. I told him, “Don’t look for that to change. The progressives are only raising their daughters to want to be priests.”
“The Twelve
Petunia, Andrea, Jamie, Joanna plus the other 7 with Judas on the right and out of uniform.”
I pray that “Judas” brings the CDF excommunication commandos with plenty of advanced warning and time for the press to arrive…
Perfect tune for these. (unrelated: I always like Randy Bachman’s lead guitar.)
We need to pray for these poor deceived, that they may not be lost. May Our Lady bring them back from their spiritual disaster, that they may understand that only a man can offer the Holy Sacrifice; that the priesthood is not about power, but about a selfless sacrifice delegated by Our Lord to his chosen ones. My mother once suggested to me that I become a priest. I almost fainted. Many men like myself know that we are not worthy of that special calling. We must all follow our vocation in humility and thank the Lord for what He wants us to be. Anything else is dangerous pride. Sancta Maria, ora pro nobis.