Will you watch the VP debate?

I have been working on a talk I have to give.  But tonight I will take a little time to watch the VP debate.

Seriously, I think while Rep. Ryan will use a scalpel when speaking to economic issues, VP Biden is more likely to bring a chainsaw and swing it wildly at pretty much everything.  He will be aggressive and fail around without much reference to facts. Hey, what does he have to lose, with his reputation?



About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
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  1. wmeyer says:

    Michael Voris offers a very clear, if disappointing analysis of the Electoral College. Catholics, especially the 54% who in 2008 cast votes for Obama, must examine their consciences, and I pray to God they undergo a conversion.

  2. acardnal says:

    FYI, according to the Daily Caller, tonight’s moderator, ABC News reporter Martha Raddatz invited Obama to her wedding! Will she be objective?

    “President Barack Obama was a guest at the 1991 wedding of ABC senior foreign correspondent and vice presidential debate moderator Martha Raddatz, The Daily Caller has learned. Obama and groom Julius Genachowski, whom Obama would later tap to head the Federal Communications Commission, were Harvard Law School classmates at the time and members of the Harvard Law Review.”

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/10/abc-news-scrambles-to-cover-up-barack-obamas-attendance-at-vp-debate-moderators-wedding/#ixzz291lPDI7P

  3. Ben Yanke says:

    I’ll be at vespers with Bp. Morlino, for the beginning of the year of faith, but I’m recording it at home, and maybe I’ll be able to hear the end after vespers. I’m predicting Ryan will mop the floor with Biden.

  4. Sissy says:

    I can’t watch until after choir practice, so I’ll miss at least the first half hour. I hope Biden’s chainsaw hasn’t run out of gas before I home! ; 0

  5. mamajen says:

    Definitely watching. So glad I tuned in to the 1st debate and witnessed an historic walloping. I had been apprehensive and almost didn’t watch. I expect that Ryan can crush Biden in a similar fashion, but I am trying not to set my expectations too high.

  6. wmeyer says:

    Undecided. Would love to see Ryan lambaste Biden, but I have almost as much difficulty listening to Biden as to Obama. My gorge rises.

  7. jilly4ski says:

    I attended that great institution where Biden first got his wonderful reputation. Lets just say, it might be something in the water. (Though on the plus side, those who cheated my 1L year did get expelled). Yes, I will be watching to catch the hilarity. It is my opinion that Ryan won’t have to say much at all, just give the rope to Biden and let him tie it into knots himself.

  8. Sissy says:

    wmeyer, why don’t you live blog it? Like mamajen, I was afraid to watch the first debate. But when I read all the comments claiming that Romney was doing so well, I turned it on. It’s fun to read about it, if you can’t bear to watch!

  9. wmeyer says:

    Sissy, think of my blood pressure. ;)

  10. Sissy says:

    wmeyer, I felt the same way. But it ended up being quite enjoyable. ; ) I’m still smiling about it.

  11. Peggy R says:

    One kid’s got practice til 7 central. The other a test. I’d like to put the kids to bed and watch. Should be fun…who’s the real Catholic may come up…

  12. wmeyer says:

    Well, perhaps with some bourbon….

  13. Sissy says:

    “Well, perhaps with some bourbon….”

    Goes without saying……

  14. Kerry says:

    One wonders if Biden will go before Emperor Barack the Foolhardy and give the gladiator’s salute prior to entering the arena. Heh.

  15. Random Friar says:

    I haven’t needed as many blood pressure meds when I gave up tv. I will read print media at my leisure.

  16. The Masked Chicken says:

    If you’ve seen one Biden-Ryan debate, you’ve seen them all ;)

    The Chicken

  17. The Masked Chicken says:

    I can imagine the scene where Biden takes his five minutes explaining some economic policy and Ryan looks at him with his best imitation of Joe Pesci from, My Cousin Vinny, and says in a Brooklyn accent, “You were serious?”

    I know…cruel.

    The Chicken

  18. JustVicky says:

    I’ve set my DVR, since I too have choir practice!

  19. benedetta says:

    I am interested in seeing Ryan whup that ol’ windbag.

  20. acardnal says:

    Fr. Z, I know you are a baseball fan. Will you be sneaking a peak on the Yankees vs Orioles game, too?

  21. AnnAsher says:

    I’m joining the family in viewing – mostly for kicks – and like Sissy and Wmeyer ala “bourbon” I will have my Zin.

  22. wmeyer says:

    Well, Joe just asked the essential question: “Who do you believe?”

    Joe, you’re kidding, right? I’ve studied economics for years. Hazlett, Mises, Friedman, Hayek, Reisman, Sowell, WIlliams, and others whose names aren’t needed after all those. Joe, if I shook your hand, I would count my fingers. Twice. And again.

    More bourbon.

  23. wmeyer says:

    I do not live in Chicago. And with good reason.

  24. Sissy says:

    wmeyer, every time Joe grins or says “5 trillion” we have to take a drink.

  25. Sissy says:

    Just kidding…there isn’t that much bourbon in the Commonwealth of Va.

  26. wmeyer says:

    Sissy, I just took a comment on FB from someone who says Joe seems more like he is speaking the truth.

    Indeed, not that much bourbon exists.

  27. Sissy says:

    wmeyer: I guess the FB person lives in the same fantasy world as Joe. Ha!

  28. wmeyer says:

    LOL! Biden just said his faith is his life. ………….uh

    Really? His tax return is public. He gave less to charity than I, by both percentage AND numbers. Really, Joe?

  29. wmeyer says:

    Sorry, I am suffering a shortage of credulity.

  30. Sissy says:

    wmeyer, he didn’t say what his faith actually is. His faith is self-admiration. So, he was telling the

  31. wmeyer says:

    Sissy, had he said, explicitly, that he was Catholic, I might have tossed this laptop through the TV screen. But really, the take-away moment was when he asked who we would trust.

  32. Sissy says:

    Surely, you’re not trying to say you don’t trust Joe?!?!?!

  33. Sissy says:

    Joe says “My character speaks for itself” LOL!

  34. wmeyer says:

    “I never say anything I don’t mean.” — Joe B.

    Words truly fail me.

  35. Sissy says:

    Thank the Lord. It’s over. Chris Matthews says “a clear victory for Biden”. Wow.

  36. wmeyer says:

    Amen, amen.

    Brian Williams referred to a “gulf in age and experience”. I hope he meant Joe’s age, and Ryan’s experience.

  37. wmeyer says:

    “…he kept Ryan on the defensive”

    Uh huh. And kept that observer on drugs.

    Journalism is dead, truly.

  38. Sissy says:

    If smirking were an Olympic event, Joe would win a gold medal. He was even more boorish than usual. I can’t believe his behavior will play well with women (or anyone, for that matter). Talking heads saying the story will be Joe’s demeanor.

  39. benedetta says:

    Biden was like, “Oh, I’m a Catholic, and that’s why I want more and more abortions!”

  40. EXCHIEF says:

    And the biggest lie was when he said that under Obamacare no Catholic institution would have to provide or pay for anything (like contraceptives) which go against the religion. He also appears to think that the most important part of Catholic teaching is social justice yet his own personal financial contribution to that (per his tax returns) is a whole lot less than my family gives and we don’t have near the $$$ he does.

  41. As was said by a rabbi about Joe Liberman: “All yarmulke, no Torah.” As to Biden: “All Rosary, no Catechism.”

  42. Therese says:

    Joe blew a lot of hot air. Ryan had all the answers. (Biden pleaded repeatedly for voters to trust Obama.) Not much of a debate.

  43. catholicmidwest says:

    Alternately fascinating and obnoxious to watch because it was all about making sausage. The sausage got made for both parties involved, more or less.


    1. Make a big fuss to make the base feel better and keep them on board. They’re freaking out. CHECK
    2. Get those phrases in there that Obama, for some reason didn’t, thereby setting Obama up for next Tuesday. It’s time consuming. It eats into your mileage but you have to do it. CHECK
    3. See if you can stop the slide. Do whatever it takes but don’t say anything really stupid. However if you do, just keep going because VP debates don’t matter anyway, you know that, Joe. CHECK

    1. Introduce yourself in a positive light to people who don’t know you yet. Do a good job and it’ll be great for your future. Look credible. CHECK.
    2. Don’t let Joe run over you no matter how much he looks like a lunatic, because he will, and keep the narrative rolling. When he acts like a chicken about ready to lay an egg, just ignore him. He’s trying to distract you. CHECK
    3. Don’t do any harm. Carry the load til next Tuesday and Romney will take it from there. CHECK.

    Mission accomplished. The “debate” was a draw. On to next Tuesday.

    Only possible fallout:
    Biden looked like he thinks talking about nuclear warfare in the Middle East is funny. Now, where I come from, that’s a problem. But, it will probably be forgotten next week anyway. Maybe.

  44. catholicmidwest says:

    Favorite sound bite……..
    Ryan to Biden: “If You’re Protecting Catholics, Why Are They Suing You?”

  45. SKAY says:

    Foreign Policy Magazine–

    “Vice President Joe Biden claimed that the administration wasn’t aware of requests for more security in Libya before the Sept. 11 attacks on the U.S. mission in Benghazi during Thursday night’s debate, contradicting two State Department officials and the former head of diplomatic security in Libya.

    “We weren’t told they wanted more security. We did not know they wanted more security there,” Biden said.

    In fact, two security officials who worked for the State Department in Libya at the time testified Thursday that they repeatedly requested more security and two State Department officials admitted they had denied those requests.”

    The White House and the State Dept are not communicating? The Ambassador and three others were killed.
    This administration is either dysfunctional or not telling the truth — or both.

  46. acardnal says:

    Biden used the usual, “I am personally opposed to abortion but I can’t impose my beliefs on others” phrase. Really? You impose your belief by law that it is wrong to steal, murder, lie under oath, assault, stopping at a “Stop” sign. The usual garbage all to get votes. Joe will meet The Almighty and have to explain his actions. Meanwhile, millions of babies are murdered.

  47. The Masked Chicken says:

    My apologies for the Joe Pesci remark, above. I got caught up in the, “mock Biden,” hysteria.

    The Chicken

  48. wmeyer says:

    This administration is either dysfunctional or not telling the truth — or both.

    You just noticed?

  49. Johnno says:

    From the debate:

    “I believe that life begins at conception. A Romney administration will oppose abortion with exceptions.” – Congressman Paul Ryan

    I eagerly wonder what those ‘exceptions’ Romney will allow for! Will we be surprised if it’s no different than Obama’s long term goals of what he would allow?

  50. SKAY says:

    No wmeyer – but it looks like it is even worse than I allowed myself to think. The WHouse spokesman is now trying to cover for Biden’s assertion that he and Obama did not know about the requests for more security.
    This is unbelievable.

  51. wmeyer says:

    The WHouse spokesman is now trying to cover for Biden’s assertion that he and Obama did not know about the requests for more security.

    Sorry, it is far too believable. More interesting is that the intel group are not taking the credit, saying they never had any info that the film was the cause of the problem.

    From what I have read, it appears to have been a well orchestrated act of terrorism which was in planning in advance of the video.

  52. frjim4321 says:

    It must have been a rough night for those who predicted a couple weeks ago here that Ryan was going to eviscerate Biden. It was no worse than a draw for Biden . . . and at least a CBS poll (not my favorite source) gave him double digits ahead of Ryan among undecideds.

    Biden’s job one was not to screw up, and he accomplished it, thereby fulfilling the most important job description item for a VP candidate: don’t hurt the ticket.

    Considering his inexperience Ryan should be given some credit for doing a credible job, but he certainly didn’t “mop the floor” with the Vice President. He also gets some credit for bladder capacity.

  53. wmeyer says:

    It was not a rough night for me. I expected no better of Biden, nor of the “moderator”. Silly name for a left-lib woman. Biden did screw up, and badly. He spewed numerous lies, clearly, and which have been fact checked and published.

    That said, Ryan did disappoint, as he should have spoken strongly and clearly to differentiate himself from the ‘c’atholic Biden, with whom he has very little faith in common.

  54. Sissy says:

    frjim4321: My prayer before the debate was that each man would be seen by the whole country as they really are; that the truth about each would be clear. And that is what happened. Joe Biden let his real character show. It was anything but a rough night.

  55. wmeyer says:

    To borrow from Tennessee Williams, Biden was common, and crude, and vulgar. But as Sissy notes, it is his nature, nothing shocking or new.

  56. Sissy says:

    Incidentally, I just got back from the Romney rally in Chesterfield County. One of the speakers paraphrased Proverbs 29:9 thusly: “If a wise person debates with a fool,the fool rages and scoffs, and there is no peace.” That got a big roar from the crowd. I think the take-away from this debate will be the absurd, childish antics of the Vice President of the United States. The picture of him laughing like a hyena about embassies being attacked, an ambassador being assassinated, and millions out of work will remain as the enduring image of the debate.

  57. frjim4321 says:

    …nor of the “moderator” wmeyer

    I guess here’s another rare instance of agreement between us. I was not overly impressed and would disagree with the guy on MSNBS and the older British guy on POTUS who raved about her. She seemed tongue-tied to me a few times and she left the Catholic think until almost the end.

    I would also comment that I thought Joe seemed to get tired or something in the last 30 minutes, or maybe that was the plan from the handlers, so start out forthright and then mellow out toward the end?

    I would also give Ryan credit for a well prepared and well delivered closing statement; Biden seemed to be doing it extemporaneously, was looking down at his note and was almost mumbling. So, my enthusiasm for his performance did sort of level off during the last 20 minutes or so.

  58. Sissy says:

    “I was not overly impressed and would disagree with the guy on MSNBS and the older British guy on POTUS who raved about her.”

    Father Jim, this is a very good point. Is it possible they are also wrong about their evaluation of Joe Biden’s performance? Maybe those folks over at MSNBC don’t have really great judgement?

  59. JKnott says:

    FrJim4321 says: “Biden’s job one was not to screw up, and he accomplished it,”

    For a man who claims that his Catholic faith defines who he is, he failed miserably.
    His repeated demonstration of a profound lack of charity to another Catholic and colleague in office and the voters, as well as his almost incessant round of lies makes one doubt if Almighty God is laughing along with him.
    Let’s keep Biden and FrJim4321 in our sincere prayers.

  60. wmeyer says:

    Maybe those folks over at MSNBC don’t have really great judgement?

    Working on understatement again?

  61. Sissy says:

    wmeyer said: “Working on understatement again?”

    Yes, it’s a hobby of mine. ; )

  62. frjim4321 says:

    Maybe those folks over at MSNBC don’t have really great judgement? – Sissy

    Sissy, I watch a little bit of all three networks, MSNBC for the far left, FOX for the far right and CNN for the center/left. Frankly, I think MSNBC has less commercials – usually the other two are doing a commercial when I surf to them, while MSNBC usually has content when I turn it on. I thought the attractive young black anchor on MSNBC (who i never saw before – he probably just got out of high school) was pretty good, and they were doing a funny little bit this afternoon when they were all drinking water while another was talking with the camera cutting to the water drinkers. It was cute and funny, and it was not mean-spirited at all.

    JKnott, I was not referring so much to his content, which some may disagree with, but he did not screw up in the sense of any major gaffs or fumbles . . . was referring to the fact that he held his own against an opponent that more than a few folk around here seem to have invested with super human powers.

    Now the interest turns to the next debate and if BHO will have a new approach. I think if he doesn’t tweak his style he could jeopardize his campaign.

  63. Sissy says:

    frjim4321 said: “but he did not screw up in the sense of any major gaffs or fumbles . . . was referring to the fact that he held his own against an opponent that more than a few folk around here seem to have invested with super human powers.”

    Father Jim, I don’t know about you, but I don’t characterize bullying, laughing hysterically at inappropriate moments, or interrupting another speaker 82 times “super human powers”. I have different words for that sort of behavior. As I told you after the Obama debate, the one, gigantic gaffe par excellence was the entire debate behavior. There was no one thing; it was the entire performance that is the gaffe. The USCCB has already called Biden on one of his more outrageous lies. Others are being publicized as we speak. This debate was another disaster for the Democrats.

  64. Sissy says:

    Fr. Jim, sorry I misread your statement….you were clearly referring to Paul Ryan as having “superhuman powers”. My apologies for poor reading comprehension! The rest of my comment stands. [And no, I don’t think Paul Ryan is superhuman, just a good Catholic man who loves his country. That’s good enough for me]

  65. wmeyer says:

    [And no, I don’t think Paul Ryan is superhuman, just a good Catholic man who loves his country. That’s good enough for me

    And for most of us, I hope and pray.

  66. Sissy says:

    wmeyer, Romney is surging everywhere. Keep praying. Even Father Jim’s favorite poll aggregation site, RCP, has Romney ahead. All will be well.

  67. benedetta says:

    Obviously Biden’s ploy to smile like the joker all the way through everything Ryan had to say backfired. Look, what else is he going to do, he had to think up something to do while the camera was on him during the recitation of the myriad failures and woes of this administration. It’s just like Ryan said, quoting the campaign, when they can’t run on the issues they try to personally attack the other side. But the spectacles just made Biden look more of a clown. I don’t think people out of work will take kindly to the vision of Biden giggling up a storm while Ryan was talking serious problems and needs in the country. Biden just looked out of touch, which, having had a media pass these four years, frankly he is, thus the resort to constant lying. It’s just like his prochoice rationalization, it’s what they hope to be true is what they try to tout, without regard for the reality of the consequences of their actions.

  68. Sissy says:

    bernadetta, I agree with you. I think there are many parts of the country where that sort of behavior just does not fly. There were moments where Biden actually looked unhinged.

  69. JKnott says:

    No gaffes last night at the debate? What’s this then?

  70. Sissy says:

    JKnott said: “His repeated demonstration of a profound lack of charity to another Catholic and colleague in office and the voters, as well as his almost incessant round of lies makes one doubt if Almighty God is laughing along with him.
    Let’s keep Biden and FrJim4321 in our sincere prayers.”

    Excellent comment, JKnott. Thank you.

  71. Athanasius says:

    Frankly it is all a dog and pony show. I didn’t watch the Obamney Romama debates either, because, as even NPR had to admit, their policies are the same. Romney put his finger in the wind on abortion not just once, but three times, and has consistently lied on when he had his abortion conversion. The fact is he became pro-choice when it was necessary to get elected in a liberal state, and has done it again when it is necessary to run on a republican ticket. Even if Ryan were the best of all catholics I could never vote for Romney, whose proposed policies are as bad as the communist usurper Obama’s, because that is ludicrous. Am I voting for president in the hopes that he will die and his VP will become Prez? Not only is it morbid, but it is unrealistic. Sooner or later we have to realize that the voting box is just the slaves’ suggestion box. Someone who thinks dropping bombs on innocent human beings in Afghanistan and Iran is a sensible foreign policy is scarcely fit for an insane asylum let alone a president. I will never vote for someone like that. Period. Do you really think he will repeal Obamacare? He wrote it! At best he will offer some exception that is not really an exception, and demand the rest of us plebs pay up for contraception and abortion. He will never do a dratted thing for abortion. If he ponies up a judge or two, he knows he can coerce him behind the scenes the way Roberts was in order to get what he wants. Its a game not an election. Don’t waste your time with it. Pray for America to declare Christ its king and save itself before its destruction. Pray for Obama’s conversion and the senate. That will do infinitely more good than a useless vote for someone who will do the same things as Obama but simply sound and act more coherent while doing it.

  72. frjim4321 says:

    “Even Father Jim’s favorite poll aggregation site, RCP, has Romney ahead.”

    Yes, I see that. Margin of error. Certainly nail-biting time for everyone.

    Would admit that I’m really p-o’ed at Barack for flipping off his first debate. I think if this upcoming debate is bust he might loose.

    It really does seem to be coming right down to the wire.

    If Romney pulls this out I hope he does due to a fair election and not monkey business. I really don’t want to see an extremist court pick the president again.

  73. Sissy says:

    Fr. Jim, it isn’t as close as you’ve been led to believe. RCP doesn’t throw out any outliers. They’ve been including push polls, for goodness sake. The polls that are now starting to edge into the territory of truth are showing Romney ahead by a few, but they are still using D+3 – D+13 models. There is no way there will be a 2008 model this year; pollster know that but persist in acting as if D turnout will equal or even exceed 2008. No one believes that is actually going to happen. One poll out of Florida yesterday is STILL using the D+ model and yet showed Romney ahead by 7. Obama was never going to win this election. His debate performance just gave a lot of people cover to admit what they were planning to do all along.

  74. frjim4321 says:

    Sissy, I don’t know about all that but if they are including actual push polls I would not favor that. Generally I have found RCP to be fairly nonpartisan, in fact was a conservative Romney-supporting friend that turned me on to RCP.

    I find a lot of the editorials seem to have a right-wing bias.

  75. Sissy says:

    Father Jim, you’re right; RCP started out as a right-learning site. The guy who started it was the one who first got me interested in polling analysis. But, over the last few years, the success of the site led to financial success from ad revenue, etc. So, it’s more of a mainstream business now than some statistics professor’s little blog. I know for a fact that they have gone to a model where they just include every poll under the sun, regardless of quality or partisanship. So, the site has departed from the original model of aggregating good polls ( I agree with you that the original idea was a good one and usually came up with very accurate results). As a result, their average has been skewed for most of the past few months. I do think that they will have to come back to the older model now that the election is at hand. As with all polling, if the final results close to the election aren’t fairly close, their credibility will suffer. I expect Dem push pollsters like PPP to show a little bump for Obama right after the next debate, just to goose his support a little. Otherwise, I think you’ll see Romney’s support growing steadily. He’ll win by a decent margin. But it won’t be because he suddenly seemed like a better candidate in the last month of the election. Obama will lose because he has been repudiated, and that happened months ago.

  76. PostCatholic says:

    The polling analysis by Nate Silver on his blog at the New York Times (“FiveThirtyEight”) has seemed pretty fair to me. It’s shown a dramatic swing in Mr Romney’s favor over the past several days.

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