A couple questions about the Zimmerman Trial.
The legal issue at stake is whether Zimmerman shot Martin in self-defense.
Setting aside the question of whether or not there should have even been a trial, and setting aside the fact that this trial was turned into a race debate by the MSM media and certain politicians….
… did the prosecution make its case?
Now that the case/trial of George Zimmerman has gone to the jury, what WILL the jury decide?
- Acquit (I followed the case/trial closely) (32%, 538 Votes)
- Acquit (I followed the case/trial a bit) (29%, 495 Votes)
- Acquit (I followed the case/trial very little) (11%, 188 Votes)
- Convict (I followed the case/trial a bit) (11%, 182 Votes)
- Convict (I followed the case/trial closely) (9%, 150 Votes)
- Convict (I followed the case/trial very little) (8%, 134 Votes)
Total Voters: 1,686
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Now that the case/trial of George Zimmerman has gone to the jury, what SHOULD the jury decide?
- Acquit (I followed the case/trial a bit) (38%, 516 Votes)
- Acquit (I followed the case/trial closely) (33%, 453 Votes)
- Acquit (I followed the case/trial very little) (15%, 209 Votes)
- Convict (I followed the case/trial closely) (7%, 90 Votes)
- Convict (I followed the case/trial a bit) (5%, 68 Votes)
- Convict (I followed the case/trial very little) (2%, 23 Votes)
Total Voters: 1,358
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Casey Anthony goes free… Zimmerman WILL get manslaughter.
Another white Hispanic getting what he deserves for his family’s involvement in slavery. At least I’ll get to see Obama voters get another victory, that has been a joy for the past five years… And they’ll still be angry.
I remember, in high school (can’t remember what class now) some discussion about the old ethical dilemma: Would you convict an innocent man in order to appease a potentially violent mob? I and a few others said no, most said yes.
So yes, Zimmerman will be convicted of something. And I wouldn’t be surprised if riots broke out anyway, though maybe on a sufficiently low level for it to fly under the media’s radar.
I think they will convict him of manslaughter (the dear Leader and his minions will be appeased)- sw85 nailed it on the head with the old ethical dilemma – only, sadly, the jury’s motive may well be more to avoid the negative judgement of the press and “society” rather than preventing a riot. I hope I am wrong – I’m not a lawyer, but I know enough about the legal system to see that, regardless of whether or not Zimmerman’s actions were smart, there is not enough evidence to prove either 2nd degree murder or manslaughter beyond a reasonable doubt.
I’ve watched or listened to much of the trial at WFTV which has had an excellent feed, and commentary with a retired attorney. Anyone who wants can find archived video of the whole trial, by day, here: http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/george-zimmerman-video-blog-archive/nYHgf/
I went in thinking that the voice screaming for help was Trayvon Martin. Looking at the pictures of Zimmerman’s head, listening to the video interview re-enactment he made with detectives the next day, along with common sense that someone who is pummeling someone else does not scream for help for 40 seconds – I’m very confident that is Zimmerman’s voice.
Hearing testimony of Dr. Vincent Di Maio locked it in for me. I found the testimony of Dr. Bao not believable (i.e., gun powder tattoo of 2×2 meant a range of 0.4 inch to 4 ft). Di Maio – a world renowned expert who has written several books and has had well over a dozen peer review articles on the subject said a 2×2 pattern could be narrowed to 2-4 inches based on test cases.
Di Maio also de-railed the testmony of Dr. Rao – another medical examiner used by the state who viewed photographs of Zimmerman’s head who dared to say two lumps, 3 inches apart on his round head came from one impact. She rejected any possibility that the punctate wounds could be from cement (little tiny punctures caused from hitting something with tiny lumps … like cement). Team Rao and Bao were very combative too. Dr. Di Maio was professional and professorial, explaining in easy to understand terms all that he was asked about. He explained that Zimmerman should have been taken to the hospital without question with his head showing those kinds of injuries because people die in jail all the time, and cities loose those lawsuits all the time (I myself knew of a man who slipped on ice in the hockey rink teaching little league, got up and continued with the his coaching, went about his day, went to sleep and died the next day. No real visible marks).
What really locked it in and I was glad to see O’Mara bring it out in the closing is that he was able to show that once Trayvon started running (per Zimmerman’s phone call and Trayvon’s phone call with Jenteal), 4.5 minutes had elapsed until Lauer called 9-11. Martin had 4.5 minutes to get home if he was afraid of Zimmerman following him and his father’s girlfriend’s house was just the length of a football field away (certainly could have gotten there in 1 minute if he was walking). Add to that, he encountered Zimmerman from the other direction, coming up the walk leading up to the T-intersection (he had probably ran around the building and came up through that dark area between the houses as the place he was staying was at the end of that row).
So, when Bernie De La Riondo asked who was following who in his closing, I wish O’Mara would have repeated that question to the jury. Rather than Martin going home if he was scared, he came back during that 4 minutes and confronted Zimmerman, then sucker punched him.
Trayvon had not a single mark on him other than the bullet in his chest and some abrasions on his left knuckles, possibly from cement. In other words, Zimmerman wasn’t even responding with hits.
On day two after the incident, Zimmerman, in his re-enactment, said that he kept yelling for help and didn’t understand why no one would come. This is a guy who knew the police were on their way because he called them. He was hoping the police would hear him, as he pointed out. But as his head was being hit into the cement and he kept taking blows to the head, he had to wonder how much more he could take. Those screams are blood-curdling, the sound of someone in serious distress, and in my mind very realistically thinking he could suffer death or great bodily harm.
Jury decided to stop for the night after asking earlier for a list of evidence. I hope they have come to a conclusion and just wanted to sleep on it. If so, we may hear a verdict tomorrow morning.
I pray they acquit him. I think he is innocent of 2nd degree and manslaughter.
Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman had every right to be where they were that night. But, while others focus on George Zimmerman getting out of his car, if I were a juror, I think it was Trayvon who was imprudent for going back to confront someone he considered a “creepy @$$ cracker.”
Erin Burnett on CNN just explained where the tradition of a jury of twelve comes from. Searching at Google for:
welsh king twelve jurors apostles
we get this hit:
The Nation; Why a Jury Can Be 12, Even 6, but Not 5, by Jan Hofmann, for the New York Times.
I watched a “bit” and think he is innocent but will be convicted of manslaughter.
Saul Alinsky would be proud of his protege for jumping on this case with the comment that TM would be like his son, virtually insuring deep divisions, civil unrest and vengeance.
The police officer who found no reason to arrest him was fired, and Zimmerman gets charged by a political incompetent and gets away with it. The judge is too obvious and so forth.
Manslaughter it is. Pray for Zimmerman. He was trying to do good in his neighborhood and will probably spend 30 years in prison as the scapegoat for Obama’s empire of evil.
Pat Buchanan makes some excellent observations here: http://www.cnsnews.com/blog/patrick-j-buchanan/not-guilty-beyond-reasonable-doubt
I chose “What WILL jury decide”
“Convict” only because of political correctness and fear of racist riots
and
“What SHOULD jury decide”
“Acquit” because the facts clearly point to self-defense.
Black or White, facts are facts. The facts are all black and white.
I followed it pretty close… .. he should be found not guilty.
I think they will find him not guilty.. but in the back of my mind I am questioning what politics will play in their decision. So really who knows.
I think they will dead lock and there will need to be a second trial. The prosecution won’t make the same mistakes the second time and will get a conviction. Whether or not it should is hard for me to decide. Either of the two could have stopped this tragedy from happening. Both are at fault. But I can’t say for certain the fault is at the level of criminal fault.
I don’t think the state proved its case.
The jury requested an inventory of the evidence. That shows that they are being analytical.
Based on the facts I don’t think he can be found guilty of murder II nor the lesser included charge.
An aside about the proper number of jurors, a story told by the great Harvard Law professor, W. Barton Leach:
In a trial in Texas, a twelfth juror could not be agreed upon. Both parties were willing to agree to have an 11-man jury. But the judge was adamant. “There are twelve months of the year, twelve signs of the Zodiac, twelve tribes of Israel. And above all, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ had twelve apostles.” “But, Your Honor, wouldn’t He have been better off with eleven?”
I vote for an option not offered: acquitted on Murder 2, hung jury on manslaughter.
I voted incorrectly above, not enough coffee in my system this morning! I believe they will convict based solely on the race-baiting of the DOJ and Al Sharpton with his minions. They should acquit. As a neighborhood watch leader, I know that confrontations happen. Those who are in the area acting suspiciously will become defensive and confrontational. Neighborhood watch members train to be cautious. Zimmerman’s call for help to 911, the time-lapse of 4 minutes before the violent confrontation, Zimmerman’s injuries, the witnesses in the neighborhood, and the testimony of Martin’s father that it was not his son screaming, all support an acquittal.
But logic and evidence have little sway in the minds of most Americans at this time in our history. This jury of 6 women, I fear, may be intimidated by the judge, who should be removed from the bench and dis-barred for her behavior in this trial.
How are these 6 women a ‘jury of peers’? How dare the judge ask Zimmerman if he is going to testify and force him to submit to a time-line for making that decision? How dare the coroner advocate for a view of what happened rather than present the results of the investigation?
They dare because the Obama administration is backing them. When Zimmerman’s trial is over, guilty or not, he will have no safe place in this country. He may try to go into hiding, but he, and anyone who looks like him, will be a target for those who have been whipped into a frenzy by the despicable forces of division that run our country.
frjim4321 said:
“I don’t think the state proved its case.
The jury requested an inventory of the evidence. That shows that they are being analytical.”
I pray your right Father, but my cynical side points to this decision being made according to emotion, not reason. For what it’s worth I simply ask: how many times do any of us let someone bang their head on the concrete before we do anything in our power to stop them?
Prayers for all involved in this horible tragedy,
fxr2
NOT GUILTY! Thank GOD!
Thanks for the heads up, Lin
I just turned on the TV thanks to you
“Not guilty” is a reasonable verdict given Florida law.
I still think an overzealously armed civilian profiled a man who did nothing wrong until he was stalked. This stalker followed this boy, provoked him, and then as the fight got out of hand, shot him and claimed self-defense. If Mr. Zimmerman stayed in his car, none of this would have ever happened. He called 911, reported his concerns, and he did what any civilian would be expected to do. It’s a neighborhood ‘watch’ not a neighborhood execution squad. He should have waited for the police. His aggressive provocation, of course, is legal in Florida. So the not guilty verdict is perfectly correct.
I suspect, unfortunately, that there will be copycats. This is carte blanche for those who have guns to arm themselves, stalk a target, provoking them into a fight, let the fight get a little out of hand (get an injury or two), and then be perfectly within their right to execute their target. It will be a great way to eliminate one’s enemies. It will be known as the Zimmerman defense. I pray that I am wrong, but I predict that I will be right.
Again, I credit the jury for following Florida law. But no more Disney trips for me.
@Giuseppe……Unfortunately, you are correct. There will be criminals who copy this to their own advantage. However, I do not in any way believe that George Zimmerman had any criminal intent. Had there not been high level interference right up to the president of this country, he would not have even been arrested. Justice was served in this instance!
George Zimmerman has just been found “not guilty” of murder or manslaughter by the jury.
Well… I had never got around to logging a prediction and the news just broke.
I had followed a lot of the coverage at the time of the original crime (or should I be neutral and just call it “an altercation”?) but had not followed the trial closely. My predictions probably would have been “will acquit” (based on commentary I’ve read from news types who have been following it more closely than I) and “should convict” (of something).
The “of something” – I doubt it should have been a murder conviction. I don’t know the definitions well enough (particularly the local jurisdiction) to say if manslaughter was the most appropriate lesser charge. It will be interesting to read some of the reports and see what “the experts” think of what the prosecutor did (particularly with respect to what possible choices he had among criminal charges) and whether the Martin family has any prospect/means/standing/desire to pursue Zimmerman in civil court.
I’m glad Zimmerman doesn’t live on my street. It seems to me that he’s a dangerous yahoo – a self-appointed wannabe sheriff who ignored direct instructions from the police and initiated a confrontation that turned deadly.
@Lin – ‘Not guilty’ does not mean innocent. George Zimmerman took the life of a man he stalked A man who did nothing until provoked by Zimmerman. A man who would have safely gone home but for the intervention of Zimmerman. I pray for George Zimmerman, as he has to face God, and God knows what was in his heart that evening. And I pray that the soul of Trayvon Martin has found the peace denied him on earth.
I don’t think anyone will find this situation encouragement for “carte blanche” actions. If anything this case almost demonstrated that the state thinks it is better for people to allow themselves to be murdered than to defend themselves. At least, if the attacker is black and the victim is white. Sad to see how the facts are not getting in the way of the protesters. I am hearing some statements since the verdict that are illuminating, but not in a good way. I have asked my son, who lives in the south, to be extremely careful about things for at least the next few weeks, and don’t be out at night. So much blind hatred. So much ignorance. I followed the case fairly closely, and like most tv pundits, thought George Zimmerman was defending himself. But the outcome will not appease those who did not get what they wanted, and so there will be innocent people likely harmed and killed. Terrible. God help thwart evil plans, please.
Sorry Guiseppe, but Zimmerman didn’t go to Trayvon and say “you wanna go?” It was Trayvon who started the violence. This is a lesson to anybody who starts violence: you never know how a fight is going to end.
George Zimmerman had to fight for his life twice, once against Trayvon Martin, and once against the justice department, our president, and the mainstream media. From Zimmerman’s demeanor during this entire process, it does not appear that he took any comfort in killing another human being. He will be sorry that this was the end result for the rest of his life. The pundits will spin this for months, years to come. Remember Satan loves this controversy. We must call on St. Michael for his assistance!
Zimmerman did not ‘stalk’ anyone according to the findings of the jury. That was your typical mainstream media spin. Excellent video interview here with his brother. Zimmerman also took a moment to highlight that his brother was Catholic, strongly is against taking any life, including those who die in abortions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-ePcLS5f7jw
“I still think an overzealously armed civilian profiled a man who did nothing wrong until he was stalked. This stalker followed this boy, provoked him, and then as the fight got out of hand, shot him and claimed self-defense. If Mr. Zimmerman stayed in his car, none of this would have ever happened. He called 911, reported his concerns, and he did what any civilian would be expected to do. It’s a neighborhood ‘watch’ not a neighborhood execution squad. He should have waited for the police. His aggressive provocation, of course, is legal in Florida. So the not guilty verdict is perfectly correct. ” Stalked is a pretty strong word w/ connotations. Zimmerman was a volunteer watchman. He called 911 and reported a suspicious person in his neighborhood. That’s not a crime. The evidence showed no provocation on Zimmerman’s part. (i followed the trial closely).
There was a window of opportunity for Martin to have gone home. The police asked Zimmerman the location and then told him to get back in his vehicle. It was then that Martin attacked him and threatened to kill him. That IS against the law. The way i saw it is that they were both entitled to be where they were. They may BOTH have been suspicious of the other. Zimmerman had reason to be suspicious. They had numerous break ins there. IF Zimmerman had wanted to outright just kill Martin he could have done so in the first few seconds of either spotting him or when they first bumped into each other. The aggressive behavior came from Martin-not Zimmerman. It’s a tragic event with loss of life. Unfortunately i see ppl with agendas USING the tragedy. It does not help the Martin family one iota.
The jury found him not guilty. We don’t convict by mob rule.You’re free to disagree with the verdict but you are not free to go on a witch hunt trying to drum up some way to get Zimmerman when the jury has spoken.It’s exactly what is going on now. IMHO it was a witch hunt from the beginning.It should have gone to a grand jury FIRST.
people are being grossly misinformed by the media. Look up the facts.
Giuseppe says:
@Lin – ‘Not guilty’ does not mean innocent. George Zimmerman took the life of a man he stalked A man who did nothing until provoked by Zimmerman. A man who would have safely gone home but for the intervention of Zimmerman. I pray for George Zimmerman, as he has to face God, and God knows what was in his heart that evening. And I pray that the soul of Trayvon Martin has found the peace denied him on earth.
Actually, not guilty does mean innocent–both are negative predications.
There seem to be a lot of people who–encouraged by the media, politicians, activists–think that agreeing with the verdict because the facts weren’t there (acc to various lawyers, including Civil Rights lawyer Leo Terrell) means being on Zimmerman’s side.
Over the years I have not been particular fond of most Attorneys General because the have been too much oriented toward politics over enforcement of the law. And Eric Holder has seemed a bigger snake than most.
My favorite AG served under Jimmy Carter (an incompetent President). Griffin Bell was a smart, high principled man.