I remember in my prayers tonight the people in the Ukraine. The people in this unfortunate corner of the world, with its beautiful culture and Christian tradition, have suffered so much in the last 100 years.
Tonight they are suffering more.
I have been off of TV and news for a couple weeks, and so I am playing catch up. What I understand is that Ukraine, caught between Russia,being reconstituted in its Soviet incarnation by Putin et al., and the flaccid but at least European EU, has a president who is caving to the Russian side and is repressing protests in favor of a European alignment and greater freedom.
People are dying and Kiev is burning.
And where is Pres. Obama? He is not supporting the protesters. Instead, it seems that VP Biden, of all people, called the Ukrainian president. If this is the White House’s attempt to elevate Biden on the world stage for the sake of a 2016 run…. HA!
I will pray for the people in the Ukraine who have been injured, who have died and for their families… and for the protesters, whose cause seems the right one.
Meanwhile, we probably must wait for the Olympics to end before we see the real hard repression of protest to begin.
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Being a citizen of the EU, I am not that sure whether fighting *for* the EU is worth that bloodshed.
And Putin at least shows some support for Christian values…
So I take no sides in this Ukrainian conflict. But pray I may.
I have spent the past 50 years studying Russia and Eastern Europe. When it became apparent that we somehow, for some undefined reason and in some smug way declared, had”won” the cold war, I opined publically that I feared for us if we ignored post-Soviet Russia. Yet, so we have done and so we now see the results of a politics that has ignored the power of Russian rulers to manipulate their own people and their “close” neighbors into dictatorial submission. My current prediction about Ukraine is pessimistic: Putin will exercise his will through his puppets in the Ukrainian government and the Ukrainian people (N.B. not the Russian population of Ukraine) will suffer the same fate they did in the 1920s and 1930s, to whit, a forced union with Moscow that represses legitimate Ukrainian independence. Hospodi, pomiluj!
Thank you for this clarification Fr. Z. I am praying for those in Ukraine, Ukraine’s President, and also for the protesters.
p.s. Sorry Fr., there is no Leave a Reply on the post re: spammers for me to comment. I was also a spammer.
The Ukraine has been the bone of contention for a hundred years. The rich natural resources are needed by the Russians. And, remember, millions died because of the purges of Stalin. Both the Latin Rite and the Byzantine Rite Catholics have suffered.
Part of this is hatred based on ethnicity.
As to joining the EU, I, too, believe that is not the way for the Ukraine to go. Broke Big Brother is moving quickly to a completely socialist, dominant state which has taken sovereignty from the individual nations. Why anyone would want to join the failing euro-sphere is beyond me. I suppose the Ukrainians feel isolated and in danger from Russia by being alone.
The age-old hatred are coming to a head. Pray we must. I do not trust Russia or Putin, but neither do I trust the EU. Choose your tyrant….
My guess is that Obama didn’t call because he was too busy taking notes on the strategy.
Prayers offered for those in the Ukraine!
Father Z……..I was unable to post or email you about the issue for two days. I received the message that I was blocked and to be nice in my request to be re-instated.
The Ukraine is home to a very large Eastern Rite Catholic population. There are also Latin Rite Ukrainians as well. The Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, with over 5,000,000 members, is the largest of the Eastern Catholic churches. And yet, their major archbishop has yet to be honoured with the title that is rightfully his, namely that of patriarch. Of course, the idea of a Eastern Catholic Patriarch of Kyiv is enough to offend the Orthodox Patriarchate of Moscow deeply, so it is not done.
Western Ukraine is home also to the Greek Catholic Eparchy of Mukachevo which serves those of Rusyn or Ruthenian heritage. Most of the people which make up the four eparchies of the Byzantine Rite in America are Rusyn, though there are many people who are not Rusyn who now attend Byzantine Catholic parishes, either to escape liturgical aberrations or to because they are drawn to the beautiful liturgical and devotional traditions of the Eastern Churches.
The Greek Catholics in the Ukraine suffered mightily for their faith. All of the bishops were imprisoned, as were many of the priests. The faith was driven underground and yet it survived. These people need our support and our prayers.
I don’t know what to think of what is going on in the Ukraine, I can see where they don’t want to be under the old Communist rule but Russia seems to be reconnecting more with it’s Christian roots than the EU. I kind of look at the Ukraine like Texas, they are about the same size. I find myself more often than not wanting Texas to seperate itself from the Federal Government of the United States and set up it’s own trade agreements with states and countries. To me the US Federal Government is becoming more like Soviet Russia than what the Putan Government is. Russia is becoming more of a Christian nation than we are. There Federal Government supports the Russian Orthodox Church. The mass of the Russian Orthodox Church is more Orthodox than the revised mass of Paul VI. If I were the Ukrainians I wouldn’t want to be ruled by either the EU or the Russians but I would set up trade agreements with both but be politically independent. Just like I would like to see Texas be politically independent of the US Federal Government. If Pat Buchanan many countries are rejecting the EU which to me is like the US Federal Government. It would be nice if we as a nation returned the Federal Government to what it was limited to in the Constitution. Let the individual states take care of their own citizens health care, social security and education. If you move to another state your social security and health care benefits that you invested would be transferable, the feds would only regulate interstate commerce. I’m originally from the North but by the North winning the war I think it freed the slaves who didn’t really have equality for another 100 yrs. and ended up enslaving the rest of the nation to what has become an aetheistic socialist state which is now nearly 18 trillion dollars in debt and printing money like there is no tomorrow. Both Republicans and Democrates are reponsible for the collapse of this once great nation. As a member of the last year of the Baby Boom generation I would have to place the blame directing in our laps. My generation has managed to destroy the greatest republic created on the planet and destroy the Church established by our Lord and His Apostles. The Greatest Generation gave birth to the children of Cane and now it will not be water but fire that cleanses the wrought that my generations has created. But it was the Greatest Generation that gave us FDR and Federal welfare and social security, so maybe not so great after all.
Mary Immaculate, Help of Christians, intercede, we pray, with your Son that the brave struggles of your faithful children in Ukraine may bring peace, freedom, and healing to their nation.
It seemed that the situation was turning towards improvement for the protesters at one moment. I pray it will turn around for them.
The easy(?) solution would be to split the country in two, one half annexed by Russia and the other remaining quasi-independent in the EU.
Fr. Z, all I have to say is this: the Cold War is over.
Dear Father Z:
Thank you for fixing my login problem. I am so relieved not to have been banned. Just in case I will behave better in future.
Gratias
Easy for us, Nicholas. Giant slap in the face for the Ukranians, of course. They’re in my prayers.
This POTUS just doesn’t have any respect on the international stage and doesn’t really deserve any, unfortunately. Putin wouldn’t have dared be this bold with the last POTUS, for example.
Is it really over, fibo? Reality is a bit more complicated. Putin’s return to power (as was his blatant proxy relationship over the interim) is very disturbing on a few fronts. I totally sympathize with the Russians stance on, say… Syria, even if I’m a bit skeptical about their good will as much as just being contrary. This US administration would throw the Syrian Christians to the Islamic wolves just like they did with the Copts, to say nothing of the Iranian moderates/protesters.
Supporting the protesters??????????????? Are you out of your mind Father? Why in the world would I want to support that group of EUphiles? The only thing the EU is good for these days is gay marriage and euthanasia. I have no love for the KGB, but Putin is at least trying to talk like a Christian. You said that you haven’t been paying close attention so I think you should try to pay a bit more attention vis a vis the EU/Obama block’s relationship with Russia and the Ukraine. I don’t even know what these people are out in the streets protesting accept to implement the Obama/EU agenda of social despair in a country that has already seen too much despair.
Based on my knowledge of Ukraine (NB: not “the Ukraine” which is considered a slightly derogatory term for many Ukrainians) and on what my switched-on friends in Ukraine tell me, this debate about EU vs Russia in relation to this protest is a bit of a red-herring. The issue at the heart of the protest is the addressing the problem of deeply repressive and corrupt government. The issue of the EU talks etc has just brought this problem right back into the lime-light and obviously given the protesters something politically-charge to latch onto. I’m not saying the EU/Russia issue is not relevant (it is, including because Kyiv is the geographical birthplace of Russia) but it’s not the key issue. As some others have suggested here already, the idea that joining the EU is something to be aspired to….well, I’m also not sure I’d agree at all. But on the other hand if choices are limited…
St. Volodymyr, pray for them and for us!
Has Ukraine explored the possibility of some kind of new regional alliance with the other former Soviet Bloc countries such as Poland, Romania, Belarus, and Hungary? I don’t know enough about these countries and what kind of relationship they have with each other, but it might make them somewhat of a counterweight to Russia and they probably share values that differ from the current atheistic and socialistic tendencies of the EU.
Dear @Priam1184,
I am not in a position to admonish you, but still… if the benevolent dictator of this combox allows you to disagree with him, fine, but still it would be better to do so with less personal expressions and less question marks.
On the factual points about the EU,
the only thing the EU is good for these days is gay marriage and euthanasia.
Precisely these two things, if knowledge serves me, are not a specific EU problem.
What the EU does seem to do sometimes is try to push a progressive consensus through. There is, e. g., a consensus among Europeans now (like it or not) that homosexuality is not a bad thing, and there are occurrences where the EU tried to take measures against dissenters. However, gay “marriage” (strictly so-called – they do need to be distinguished from civil unions, see e. g. articles of Dr Peters on that matter) is a different thing, and there is no EU push for them (to my knowledge).
As for euthanasia, I’m quite certain that this is strictly – as yet – a national affair of some EU countries (the Netherlands and now, sadly, Belgium), and one non-EU country (Switzerland).
All this is not saying that there is no just criticism of the EU… only not, I think, this one.
I have to agree with Wiktor and Priam1184; the EU is not going to help this lovely country, indeed it will bring great harm. An acquaintance from Ukraine several years ago was very outspoken about what a “backwards” country it was with no “gay rights” and people still believing homosexual activity was sinful. I perceive sinister forces at work fomenting the discord here in pursuit of a particular agenda. Division and violence are always from the devil. Remember that Poland overcame Communism by peaceful protest (at least, peaceful on the side of the reformers, Solidarity) and the many prayers and sacrifices of Blessed John Paul the Great.
I have been pondering the Fatima messages and recall that “Russia will spread her errors” which indeed has happened, but who can say whether she will not also repent and spread truth in the future?
Certainly, Putin is no saint but his continued resistance to the pro-homosexual lobby has to be applauded. At least he knows right from wrong on that issue and I see no other country showing such resistance.
I think in the US you are highly sensitive to the Communism issue and there are other and perhaps even greater errors of political thinking out there.
But prayers are needed, that’s something we can all do whatever we make of the politics.
Our Lady of Fatima, pray for them and all of us.
RJHighland says,
My generation has managed to destroy the greatest republic created on the planet and destroy the Church established by our Lord and His Apostles.
Actually, the mess in the Church was created by the European Branch of the Greatest Generation. Names like Rahner, Schillebeeckx, Kung, Lercaro, Alfrink, Bugnini, and Montini come to mind.
Vat II closed in 1965, when the first Baby Boomers were not yet 20 years old.
Rachel K says:
I have to agree with Wiktor and Priam1184; the EU is not going to help this lovely country . . .
When did the EU help anyone else? The slaughter in Bosnia was stopped by the US.
The issue at hand is much deeper than the EU vs. Russia angle that the MSM has been presenting. Here is a recent interview with Ukrainian Greek Catholic Bishop Gudziak that sheds some more light on the matter:
http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2014/01/25/ukraine_movement_a_%E2%80%98maidan_of_dignity%E2%80%99,_says_bishop_/en1-767406
Prayers being offered.
We are seeing the collapse of Republics in our lifetime, and the world is coming full circle. My prayers are definitely with the Ukraine, but see here, fellow Americans, you future. We were the first modern Constitutional Republic, and I fear we will be the last to fall. There are truly only two forms of Government: Republics and Oligarchies. As a student of governments, I have found that none are permanent, but power always ends up in the hands of the rich and powerful in this world. The reasoning is clear: Left to govern themselves, people will abdicate the responsibility in order to live “comfortable” lives. Collapse of Christianity is a good indicator. With that goes the loss of common morality and virtue. Loss of national identity then follows through the breakdown of a country into separate social groups. These groups are then told by the ruling elite that they are not equal to other groups. This leads to relative distrust amongst people of the varying groups who are supposed to be united in common love for their fellow neighbor. Do you see how the game is played? The people who break out the groups are the same people that use these groups to claim lack of equality. All the while, man is never equal any way. True equality is in the fact we all come into the world birthed from a woman and we all die and return to the dust. What happens in between is circumstance and how we choose to live our lives.
Anyway, I went off topic. Prayers for the Ukraine this morning and the world that is collapsing around us. I will not fear, for He is with me.
“As a student of governments, I have found that none are permanent, but power always ends up in the hands of the rich and powerful in this world.”
Has it ever been tried on this earth that governments should be made up of only poor people? We know that the poor in spirit are the inhabitants of the kingdom of God, so, poverty is the preferred state for those who govern.
The Chicken
Wiktor says:
18 February 2014 at 6:41 pm
“(…) I am not that sure whether fighting *for* the EU is worth that bloodshed.
And Putin at least shows some support for Christian values…
So I take no sides in this Ukrainian conflict. But pray I may.”
My agreement to that.
I have to wonder if Putin really cares about “the gay issue” or if he just knows it’s the single best way to get under the skins of both the EU and the US at once… There’s just days that I think that, were he a 23-year-old man, he’d just be a garden-variety internet troll.
Times like this, I miss the Ukrainian-Catholic parish by my parents’. I’d love to pick some brains on that.
it’s embarrassing that POTUS can get right on the phone to Sandra Fluke about her birth control situation but not personally involve himself in a strategically important & urgent situation as this.
Asking the intercession of the Theotokos & the Holy Ukrainian Martyrs on behalf of the people of Ukraine!
What scares me here, and on other websites, are people who reflexively seem to defend Putin because he is on the right side of abortion and gay marriage. He’s a tyrant who uses religiosity in a most perversely political way. And the Orthodox Church is typically falling into its usual Caesaropapism.
@The Masked Chicken
I have seen very many well intentioned people go to Washington D.C., but too many of them have left their morals and values outside the city limits. The poor would be just as susceptible to this as a middle-class or rich individual. Even then, if you have a person that stands their grounds on their morality, they are minimized by the majority. Two examples of this are former Senator Dennis Kucinich-D and present day Senator Ted Cruz-R (I did that to prove that there are people in both parties who at least practice what they preach- never mind one’s personal views of their politics).
Either way, the lack of morality and virtue is parallel to the lack of morality and virtue in the people. That is always why I like to say that people get the government they deserve. Even those who espouse morality tend to set it aside when they need something in the way of safety or security from Big Brother.
Dear Father Z,
I live in Moscow. Please do not believe what you read about Russia or Vladimir Putin in the NYT or US media any more than what they write about the Catholic Church! Russia is not the one to blame for the violence in Ukraine. The EU has been actively implementing a policy of pulling Ukraine away from Russia, and encouraging increasingly violent protest. What would have the EU or the US said if the Russian foreign minister came to Paris to lead and encourage demonstrations against homosexual marriage last year and then exhorted the demonstrators to use molotov cocktails to make their point? Or drafted a list ministers that should be allowed in the new French Government as State Department official Victoria Nuland did in Ukraine? Where did you get that Putin presents a Soviet incarnation of Russia? On the other hand, my Russian friends do not understand what is happening to Europe and the US… Russia may end up an island of sanity at this pace.
We are all united in prayer for peace in Ukraine!
For those championing for Putin.
His “Christian Moral Values” will only hold as long as he needs them.
Ukrainians are not so far from Holodomor. Some have parents or grandparents that they lost.
When the Priests are out standing with the protestors, as I saw live last night, I stand on the side of the Priests.
BillyT92679 says:
What scares me here, and on other websites, are people who reflexively seem to defend Putin because he is on the right side of abortion and gay marriage. He’s a tyrant who uses religiosity in a most perversely political way. And the Orthodox Church is typically falling into its usual Caesaropapism.
Agree, but let’s not stop there. Compare Putin to Western “leaders” who push abortion and homosexual marriage. Are they less perversely political than he is?
Then compare the Caesaropapism of the Orthodox Church to the German bishops, who approved the morning after pill, Cardinal Schonborn, who endorsed homosexual unions, and the Swiss bishops who did not support an effort to defund abortions.
Netmilsmom:
I would dispute your assertion that the remembrance of Holodomor is having an effect on how the protestors in Ukraine are behaving. I can’t really be too explicit here, but if you were right, then the Ukrainian protesters would be protesting AGAINST increased ties with the EU and especially with America, both of which entities are today controlled by the same group of people who orchestrated Holodomor.
For those of you who want to know what is happening although biased towards the Russian View try
http://rt.com/ remember this the Ukrainian Churches Catholic and Orthodox raised a tent where the priests of those christian denominations offered the Liturgy of St John Chrysostom daily.
RobtBrown
I think what’s worse, a poke in the eye, or a punch in the gut? We can’t be consequentialists here. Just because Putin SEEMS to be religious, doesn’t mean he’s any model of holiness.
We’ve become too utilitarian and partisan. If he’s with us on the non-negotiables, we can look away at the other stuff. That’s a soft wickedness.
I am a Ukranian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hvds2AIiWLA#t=90
I just have a passion for the UGCC. They really fed me spiritually when I was in the heart of the Matthew Clark era Diocese of Rochester. I love the Ukrainian people and wish them only the best.
BillyT92679 says:
RobtBrown
I think what’s worse, a poke in the eye, or a punch in the gut? We can’t be consequentialists here. Just because Putin SEEMS to be religious, doesn’t mean he’s any model of holiness.
You’ve done a great job of destroying a straw man. Who is insisting that Putin is a model of holiness?
Do you think he’s any worse than Obama?
Everyone is missing a great deal of context with concern to the Ukraine and it’s ‘protests.’
Russia isn’t just getting involved for the heck of it. It is involved because there is strong evidence that the United States is interfering in the free elections of the Ukraine people for geopolitical gain. In fact even the so called ‘protests’ might be instigated by American operatives with participants being shipped in from the surrounding nations. Earlier on the Russians tapped and released a few minutes of U.S. Diplomats openly discussing their involvement in influencing who should be in power in the Ukraine.
Given that America is involved in such underhanded deeds right under Russia’s nose, Russia isn’t just going to sit back and not get involved in their own manner. The Ukraine has become a sort of battleground between Russia and the U.S. Obama doesn’t have to do or say anything because the U.S. is already involved in manufacturing an uprising and trying to install their own puppet government.
The recent terrorism happening around Sochi is also linked to the Saudis who are supplying Islamic militants with weapons with the prince openly threatening Russia and Putin. The Saudis are also responsible for supporting Syrian rebels alongside America who is arming Syrian rebels and is also suspected to be arming the Ukrainian militants.
Here’s something worth reading to get the idea of the whole situation. All the pro-gay/slamming of Russia for the Olympics is part and parcel of a larger propaganda campaign by the West.
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2013/12/01/ukraine-defends-its-sovereignty/
It’s time to stop paying attention to the mainstream corporate-owned Western Media about global affairs. You’d think many of us would’ve learned considering how they handled everything from the Catholic Church to Iraq and recently with Syria.
Does he have to be?
There’s no strawman here.
And, yes, I do think he is worse than Obama overall. I think he’s more naked in his aggression. But being worse than Obama is not saying Obama is any way good.
BillyT92679 says:
And, yes, I do think he is worse than Obama overall. I think he’s more naked in his aggression. But being worse than Obama is not saying Obama is any way good.
I wonder whether you’re just doing the Us vs Them dance. We are bad, but they have to be much worse.
Under Obama, the most pro abortion President in history, there have been about 5 million abortions. Now he wants believers to pay for them–he has no use for freedom of religion.
Now he’s pushing legalizing relations between sodomites, a sin that cries to heaven for vengeance.
He is also an habitual liar.
How is Putin worse?
I would urge caution before urging American backing for protesters. this is very much a proxy battle between Russia and the United States. We need to tread rather carefully. Consequences may be dire indeed.
Thanks to all those posts from people that have direct ties to what is going on over there. It seems like any politically motivated protest the issues are murky at best. I found myself thinking it would be better off for the Ukrainians to distance themselves from the US and the EU if they they are seeking to maintain a Christian identity. Just because their are priests on the Protesters camp doesn’t mean they are on the right side of the issues, I have seen plenty of Catholic priests and religious on the wrong side of political issues. If the Ukrainians recieve aid from the US we will force birth control, abortion and homosexuality down their throats and that is a fact that is our main forgein policy of this administration. Just ask the Philipines, Africa or Mexico. The US has supported the wrong side of political change for Christians in Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Afganistan and Pakistan. This is during both the Obama and Bush administrations, neither of them have done Christians any favors in the region. Obama alliances though are more in line with the complete destruction of Christian groups in the Middle East. I would also tend to trust a Russian Orthodox Priest over a progressive Novus Ordo Catholic Priest on moral issues but that is my gut and life experience talking.
Please pray for Ukraine … a message from a friend:
Thanks, Maria, for your support…we are not ok…
Physically – good, but psychologically – no…
Actually it is war… And we don’t know how tomorrow’s day will look like…
@Imrahil You may be correct that the Commission in Brussels does not vocally push the idea of gay marriage and euthanasia, and you are certainly correct that these problems are not limited to European Union member states. The United States is very much infected by this madness as well and many of the ideas that form the basis for these policies originated here in days gone by. But my point is that the EU has helped (though it is certainly not the sole culprit) to create the environment where these very bad ideas can spread like wildfire from nation to nation. And the mentality that is current and institutionalized in the European Union is every bit as bad as what Barack Obama is doing in the US; why do we want to spread this pain?
I also would agree wholeheartedly with meunke: Ukraine is the Russian heartland. I think that the Russians regard Novogrod as Russia’s foundation stone, but Kievan Rus was its practical beginning. The US supporting this ragtag group of anarchists throwing around firebombs in Kiev could have disastrous consequences for everybody involved if we don’t watch ourselves.
I would say that the Catholic Church in the Ukraine really and truly fears the Moscow Patriarchate. It’s compounded by the lack of their own Patriarch of Kyiv, which means the ROC and the UOC (Moscow Patriarchate) can swallow them up without qualms, never mind the fact that the Church in Kyiv gave birth to the Russian Orthodox Church. The Ecumenical Patriarchate also seems wary of Russia.
fib09002, why would the Ukrainian people wish for greater ties to Russia if the Holodomor is on their minds?
Nicholas, that same solution for Poland over the course of centuries led to World War II, the break-up of Yugoslavia and the genocide, etc. What happens if you are on the wrong side of the line?
Also, the priests are not protesting either way. The monks’ removal from the world is one reason they are made bishops, because they simply do not care for political issues. That’s the way it should be at any rate. And this time they are showing that: Ukraine is a largely Christian country, and there is no need for Christians to fight each other in the streets. Everyone should focus on Heaven. Hence the use of ikons.
If we are to pick between Obama and Putin, given how many are in love with the idea of always voting for “the lesser of two evils”, Putin easily comes out shining far more brightly as the obvious Conservative candidate. Even then, perhaps we might be seeing the hand of Providence, given that it was the Queen of Heaven who laid us for us the global plans for the end of WWI, the beginning of WWII, and the spread of Communism worldwide even to the United States. Russia could either potentially be the world’s source of misery, or the world’s salvation. It began in Russia, and God intends to turn the tide starting at the source.
Frankly, following the great ‘Perestroika’ of the Soviet Union, the old Soviet guard looked to have abandoned Russia, and set up shop building the European Union. Even further before that, Marx, Lenin and co. and their revolutions were being funded heavily by outside sources to overthrew the Russian Monarchy to install their experimental godless system. Perhaps a vacuum was left with the planned restructuring of the Soviet Union and Russia was left to fend for itself, and using that, the recent happenings are a sign that something good is springing up there… Or it could all be a clever deception… who knows? But if God and the Queen of Heaven saw potential in a converted Russia following a formal public consecration by the authorities of His Church, then I believe it’s best to defer to the positive, albeit conditional, revelations from Fatima that Russia could hold the key to victory.
A video of interest, plus some articles:
The truth about the Ukraine Crisis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbhNBBS85mc&feature=player_embedded
US and EU Are Paying Ukrainian Rioters and Protesters
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/02/17/us-eu-paying-ukrainian-rioters-protesters-paul-craig-roberts/
Washington Orchestrated Protests Are Destabilizing Ukraine
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/02/12/washington-orchestrated-protests-destabilizing-ukraine/
God bless them but please let America stay out of it.
Dear Priam1184,
thank you for your kind answer.
As to
my point is that the EU has helped to create the environment
I do not feel informed enough to make such a statement. Or to deny it.
My comment was not intended to defend the EU, but strictly factual, along my belief that even if an enemy is really an enemy, it is counterproductive to accuse him of a thing he cannot be proven guilty.
That said, there is a faint hope, and if not hope then wish, and if not wish then a sad “wouldn’t it be nice”, that the spiritual child of the likes of Chancellor Konrad Adenauer, General Charles de Gaulle, HIH Archduke Otto of Austria, Servant of God Alcide de Gasperi, Servant of God Robert Schuman would go to the dogs. But then Count Coudenhove-Calergi was a Freemason. Ah, whatever. Somebody else’s problem (to quote Douglas Adams).
I do not think, though, that the EU is consciously driving an anti-Christian agenda. That doesn’t say they won’t persecute Christian dissent where they cannot even bring themselves to understand how “perhaps some tiny minority of extremist fundamentalists” (as they will put it) is of different opinion. Driven among other things by the at times desperate need to fill their offices with important responsibilities. (Because… forgive my musings… friendship alone, while being a good thing, does not seem enough to keep a whole legislative, executive and juridic apparatus busy… and things felt to be important are either rightly devolutionized to regions or perhaps municipalties, or judged national affairs. What is left?)