Three Days of Darkness concludes, Gaia, appeased, rumbles approvingly

I posted the other day about the opening rite of the Three Days of Darkness, the “REC” (aka wreck) or Religious Ed Congress in Los Angeles, actually in Anaheim. HERE

There was, as one wag applied to the screen-shot I took, some Küng-Foo Fighting goin’ on.

The 3-day confab ended last night, with the rumbling of a 4.4 earthquake, it seems.  HERE with video.

Apparently the old cthonic gods were pleased by the rites performed during the 3-Days.  Perhaps Gaia… or Cthulhu?… was propitiated for one more year?  Hard to tell with that one, I’m afraid.

For the video of their closing “liturgy” (hey… their word, not mine) HERE.

Special guest appearance by the Archbp. of Teguchigulpa, Card. Rodriguez Maradiaga.

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
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  1. APX says:

    Perhaps this is a sign from God that He is not pleased with the REC.

  2. Is this the USA or Mexico?

  3. Pingback: Is Bill Gates Insane by Karl Keating of Catholic Answers - Big Pulpit

  4. Juergensen says:

    “Is this the USA or Mexico?”


  5. OrthodoxChick says:

    Oh, that was a Mass, you say?! With Kung-Foo?? Wow, I guess I had it all wrong. I thought it was a Sed festival complete with the reincarnation of Ramses II endorsing the earthquake. Where’s Yul Brynner when you need him?!!

  6. Nicholas Shaler says:

    I had a Youth Ministry Meeting last night for a retreat we are planning and our youth minister carried on about one liturgical abuse she absolutely LUVED! For the prayers of the faithful, they had people tweet the prayers of the faithful onto a projector so that all could see.

    I assure you, I definitely objected to doing this on retreat.

    I almost forgot to mention, her now grown daughter won liturgical dance competitions in high school. She, that is my youth minister, wanted to have liturgical dance for Gaudete Sunday, which fortunately did not happen.

    God bless,

    Nicholas Shaler

  7. Nicholas Shaler says:

    @Motley Monk

    California. We are our country now due to the craziness at this trainREC.

  8. the Bishop looks confused.

  9. Robbie says:

    Ugh! I’m really surprised to see that Archbishop Gomez was willing to participate in this. I thought he was Opus Dei. Regardless, there was a glimmer of hope in all of that madness. The vast majority of the singers and dancers looked as though they came of age in the 1970’s. Their grip, whatever is left of it, can’t last too much longer, I hope.

  10. CatholicMD says:

    How much time does Rodriguez Maradiaga actually spend in his diocese? I seem to remember his boss criticizing “airport bishops”.

  11. James Joseph says:

    Fortunately, I spent the morning listening to Rev Fr. Calvin Goodwin.

    Wherein, he briefly highlighted my territorial red-bricked borg-cube, in particular, as a most terrible example of modern architectural ugliness and incongruence. I have never actually stepped foot into this parish even though I live within walking distance. I have been too afraid of what I might find on the inside, or not find on the inside. (Hint: tabernacle hide-and-go-seek).

    I was delighted to discover he and I are neighbors outside of Portland, Maine. Who would have thunk it?

  12. Fr. Robert Barron’s keynote address was amazing. Here is a video link (he starts at about 5:20).

    You have to love a guy who goes to the LA Congress as the main speaker and starts off talking about Beauty, Goodness, and Truth using Chartes and Ste. Chappelle as references, then attacks the post-Vatican II “dumbed-down Catholicism”. He attacks the religion of “banners and balloons” saying that when people grow up from that they reject that religion as childish, and rightly so. It was brave.

    You have to wonder if perhaps it got some of the 8,000 people thinking.

  13. jbas says:

    Beautiful! How could anyone not like this? It’s just like the liturgy of the Early Church. Didn’t VCII’s Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy say, “the rites should be distinguished by a robust eccentricity”?

  14. SimonDodd says:

    Nicholas, I find it telling that the “youth minister” has a “grown daughter.” Youth ministry is a job with an expiry date. It doesn’t matter how good you are, still less how good you think you are, and it doesn’t matter how much you love it—if you’re over forty, you are and must be done in youth ministry. People in their forties and fifties who think that they can relate to the kids, they’re kidding themselves and they’re disserving themselves, the kids, and the Church. Youth ministry is a game for someone young enough that the kids feel that they can relate but old enough that the kids feel that they can look up a little.

  15. SimonDodd says:

    On the Conference, one does wonder what it will take to slay that dragon. Oh, wait. We know what it will take: For the archbishop of Los Angeles to make a decision. I mean, I kidded the other day, but Gomez can and should tell them that for their own good, they are forbidden from celebrating in the ordinary form “for the good of their own souls,” and may have Mass only in the extraordinary form celebrated by the archbishop himself with clergy and servers handpicked by him. that’s all it would take, but too many prelates are like the apostles at sea, cowering in the boat and fearful of rocking it. WWJD? “Why are you so afraid? Have you still no faith?”

  16. JohnE says:

    I can’t bear to watch the videos but the pictures reminded me of the Lawrence Welk show.

  17. jbas says:

    Having grown up in a Congregationalist world that rejected ancient Christian rituals, I was thankful for the opportunity to enter into the Catholic and Apostolic Faith during my adolescent years. However, it just baffles me that so many Western Catholics and leaders of the Latin Church prefer the fleeting sentiments conjured up in this video (and in similar displays) to the solid way of the Roman liturgical tradition. Where is the gratitude of cradle Catholics for the rites handed down so carefully by their ancestors?

  18. djc says:


  19. wmeyer says:

    More reasons for fasting and penance.

  20. I can’t help it…this is really something. I encourage all of you to watch the address from Fr. Barron that I linked to earlier.

    Another nice quote at the LA Congress:

    “I don’t think the purpose of Vatican II was to modernize the Church. The purpose of Vatican II was to Christify the world.” [How did that work out?]

    “You know what there was too much of in the last 30-40 years? A turning of the Resurrection into a bland symbol or myth or legend or literary device.” —this one was met with silence!

    He also rips into the christology of Rahner, Tillich and Teilhard de Chandin. It’s pretty sweet.

  21. When I have seen the archbishop in person, he’s reverent, says Mass by the book, and does not have the cool-aid pitchers. Tis a pity that so many parishes have started to clean up their act (probably from orders of the Archbishop) and this event hasn’t been cleaned up. All it takes is one voice to say this evil will not be tolerated. Pray for him, surrounded by wolves, and seems like he’s armed with a toothpick.

  22. ClavesCoelorum says:

    PatrickThorton, indeed Father Barron is really a treasure. His point about “The beautiful, the good, the true” and Pope Francis trying to lead to Truth through the beauty of the Catholic life made me think: “Good, start with the Liturgy!” :)

    Can anyone tell me why Father Barron is “The Very Reverend”? I could only find that address in Eastern Catholicism for an Archpriest. Is it because he’s the rector of Mundelein seminary?

  23. Yes, it’s because he’s the rector of a seminary.

    And I think he would agree with you regarding the liturgy.

  24. SimonDodd says:

    Joe of St Thérèse says: “Pray for him, surrounded by wolves, and seems like he’s armed with a toothpick.”

    He has a pen and a telephone—and that’s enough. He could say “this isn’t Catholic worship—this isn’t even Christian worship. This is infernal and it stops now.” And that would end it. Instead, he shows up smiling and glad-handing as if he were running for Congress. At very least he enables; at worst, he approves. I don’t understand—I truly don’t understand—the cloth from which we seem to cut so many of our prelates. I don’t know whether it’s more an indictment of me or them, probably of me, but we do not think alike.

  25. NBW says:

    The epicenter of the quake was smack in the middle of that labyrinth! :) I hope the earthquake shook some sense into the confused REC attendees.
    I get the impression that Bishop Gomez is not to keen on being there.
    The Sacred Space was kinda weird. It was like a museum/deification of illegal immigrants. Social justice!!

  26. Sonshine135 says:

    In one word: milquetoast

    Nothing to see here. Move along.

  27. BLB Oregon says:

    This reminds me about the story of the parish where their visiting bishop was “treated” to an instance of liturgical dance during Mass, the one where the bishop leans over to the priest, gestures towards the woman dancing, and remarks tartly, “If she asks for your head on a platter, I’m going to grant it to her.”

  28. Lyons says:

    Sacrosanctum Concilium said, “The vernacular language may be used in administering the sacraments,” and “the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites.” An opening hymn from Swaziland is neither vernacular nor Latin.

  29. SimonDodd, now that’s what he should do…being in the archdiocese, I know a bit about how it still functions….the parishes, many, but not all have cleaned up their acts Liturgically without much legislation from the Archbishop. And having several conversations with him, it seems, he’s more of, change things without announcement style….I have seen the archbishop use the Benedictine arrangement for the Mass several times. It’d take a snap of the fingers…

  30. McCall1981 says:

    The fact that they have Fr. Barron speaking at an event like this is very good sign, IMO.

  31. mburn16 says:

    “More reasons for fasting and penance.”

    Would sitting through the videos of these “masses” count as sufficient penance?

  32. “For the video of their closing “liturgy” (hey… their word, not mine)”

    Even though this trashy production may (for better or for worse) actually have been a Mass, I for one am glad that–in perhaps the only shred of common decency and mercy in the whole event–at least they didn’t publicly advertise it as a Mass.

  33. janeway529 says:

    If Archbishop Gomez wants to stop using the glass decanters, he’s going to have to allocate funds to custom order new ones, which can be quite expensive, given the size. Also, of the many groups of the Ministers of Liturgical Movement, the Valyermo Dancers are actually based out of the Benedictine St. Andrew’s Abbey in Valyermo, CA and follow a Benedictine spirituality.

  34. Mike says:

    Words I would never have thought I’d live to read: “liturgical dance competitions in high school.”

  35. SimonR says:

    Fr. Barron’s speech was great.

    The closing liturgy is certainly different!

    I think I would have left!

    Where did liturgical dance originate? I think it’s mad!

    Who knows, maybe Cardinal Maradiaga will recommend that the Pope holds a similar liturgy in St. Peter’s.

    We could have Guido Marini organizing a Fusion Mass!!

  36. amenamen says:

    Father Barron’s talk is incomparable.
    I agree with PatrickThornton.

    The juxtaposition of the depth and clarity of Father Barron’s talk with … some of the other falderol … was striking. That the same people could have applauded for both things says something remarkable, or disturbing and puzzling.

    Did they understand the profound differences between what Fr. Barron was saying and other things that happened on the same stage? Fr. Barron did not speak down to his audience. He spoke to them as if they were capable of understanding and appreciating Catholic doctrine and scriptural interpretation, patristics, history, culture, intellectual tradition and art, and they responded with … understanding and appreciation.

    And yet, other things, which should cause a certain cognitive dissonance, were applauded by the same crowd. Do they not see the contradictions? One can only hope that we are watching the slow arc of a great ship, as it finds and follows a new bearing.

    After watching the Dance of the Seven Veils, I hardly expected to hear Fr. Barron’s ideas on youth ministry: “Stress the Augustinian anthropology if you want to do evangelization today. Augustine! Give him to our kids. Don’t give them pabulum or comic books. Give them Augustine.”

  37. Andrew says:

    … in fine mundi, quando juxta Prophetam Zachariam, stultus pastor esse coeperit, sapientia decrescente, refrigescet caritas multorum. (Hieronymus Ad Nepotianum)

  38. janeway529 says: If Archbishop Gomez wants to stop using the glass decanters, he’s going to have to allocate funds to custom order new ones, which can be quite expensive, given the size.

    The Precious Blood should never be poured from one container into another, per Redemptionis Sacramentum. If there are that many people, don’t distribute the Precious Blood. Perhaps distributing the Precious Blood should be drastically curtailed anyway, to underscore the fact that it is not necessary for anybody except the priest celebrant to receive Communion under both kinds in order to actually receive the Sacrament.

    As far as the dancers following Benedictine spirituality, can you provide some authority for the proposition that liturgical dance fits within Benedictine spirituality? I am really interested to know.

  39. LarryW2LJ says:



    Sometimes we have to remember that involved the use of whips and turning over tables.

  40. St. Corbinian's Bear says:

    My favorite was the “Native American Mass” that included a classic Wiccan / Ceremonial Magic invocation of the four quarters. (If that was a genuine Indian ceremony, I’m Sitting Bull.) Isn’t there some rule about combining witchcraft and Masses? I’m just a dumb Bear, so I have to ask.

    They’re lucky they didn’t offer this dreck to Cthulhu. California would have been pulled down to R’lyeh as punishment. As it is, it looks like it offended Cthulhu’s sense of propriety to some small degree, hence the earthquake.

  41. VARoman says:

    I was only able to watch 1:21. I had to stop because some very un-Christian judgements were coming to mind.

  42. thomas tucker says:

    The lighting and costumes does indeed remind me of old shows form the 60’s and 70’s with the The June Taylor Dancers. Ugh. Time warp.

  43. Scott Woltze says:

    Patrick Thornton et al are onto something. Fr. Barron’s speech is a polite, charitable dismantling of many of the assumptions of the conference attendees. It was a subversive move by the archbishop or whoever booked him. Thank you Fr. Barron!

  44. e.davison49 says:

    Fr. Barron. Standing astride the middle like a titan.

  45. KylieP says:

    **The caption on the picture that Catholic Memes posted was actually “Hans Kung fighting,” which I realize I misread the first time I brought it to your attention. MY APOLOGIES!! **

  46. KylieP says:

    36 seconds in and I’m already laughing. “Specialness?”

    This is like a particularly bad, Catholic nightmare…

  47. St. Corbinian's Bear says:

    Fr. Barron: “Come out to the coast, we’ll get together, have a few laughs.” Next thing you know you’re crawling through a ventilator shaft in Nakatomi Plaza being hunted by liturgical dancers.

    Fr. Z's Gold Star Award

  48. Vecchio di Londra says:

    Oh well, it gave me the best laugh I’ve had for days, plus a feeling of deep, thankful relief that I didn’t follow up a job offer and go and live in southern California all those years ago. (I’d have been useless as a Californian, I came down to breakfast one morning in San Francisco, and started to adjust the pictures askew on the wall: the other hotel guests were incredulous that I’d slept peacefully through a rather large earthquake.)
    Nicholas, I hadn’t realized they now had liturgical dance competitions. I wonder what the prizes are…and whether they also have liturgical dance callers. (‘Do a hip-and-a-hop-and-a-figure eight, then right-kick, wiggle and a-shake that plate’)
    And Simon – a youth leader or (say) ‘Mentoring Fellowship Initiative Training Enabler’ is then (I’m surmising) eventually an ‘Enhanced’ and then ‘Advanced’ and then a ‘Senior Mentoring Fellowship Leadership Program Training Executive’ etc, with appropriate annual salary increments and (presumably) pension scheme. And probably as unsackable as an Italian state official.

  49. Nicholas Shaler says:

    To those who have mentioned liturgical in response to my previous comment,

    She once asked if I wanted to, “It really is quite reverent, for the guys it really is more of a march.”

    I respectfully declined.

    Also, yes, there used to be competitions. My youth minister used to coach a team in Detroit, they got third place nationally.

  50. Urs says:

    Well, they DID have an earthquake this morning, Mon Mar 17, 2014!
    This video is a real video of the news anchors during the earthquake but with Duck and Cover songer over the sound:
    Duck and Cover Kaboom!

  51. govmatt says:

    Ya know, the saddest thing about this is that they don’t even know how wrong they are.

    For the most part, I can hold bishops accountable (they should know better)… but these folks are so poorly catechized that they can’t even fathom that they’re wrong (and hurting the future of the church).

    I imagine that these people who, love them or hate them, are pretty passionate, would actually have been really effective traditionalists but for their lack of formation (education). These folks really think they are honoring the Lord (we know that they are so far from it that they make a mockery of Him, but I’ll choose to see the good). This really falls on the bishops who actively support this stuff (I really prefer not to imagine a final judgment when the souls lost are weighed against those who had them in their care…).

    I wish I had a picture of a kitten or something to make this post less somber…

  52. The Masked Chicken says:

    “I wish I had a picture of a kitten or something to make this post less somber…”

    How about an Irish Chicken? You can have green beer and beer is, normally, about the same color as a chicken. On the other hand, I think a Vulcan chicken would also look green.

    Happy St. Patrick’s day.

    An Sicín

    [That’s, The Chicken, in Irish]

  53. Supertradmum says:

    The outfits are substandard and tatty; the dancing is substandard; the music is not even worthy to be called music. Proof that the TLM alone brings perfection, art, grace into our lives.

  54. Urs says:

    I got so excited wanting to share that perhaps the ‘god’ and ‘goddesses’ were not so pleased… I missed pertinent details…alas…that is not uncommon with my first reactions. And I realize that about myself ; knowing that helps me make less public blunders….but not all….OOPS! Father. You already said that they had had an earthquake in your article. I missed that detail in my excitement ..Mea Culpa!
    However, I DO think the video above IS cute with the Duck and Cover song ;)
    Thanks for all your hard work…I learn a lot from your blog!

  55. lsclerkin says:

    Urs, ya stole my… Er…thunder. Earthquake there this am, freaked out TV newscasters.
    Maybe Gaia is not appeased.

  56. Andrew D says:

    I am appalled by this filth and yes, it is filth. This was not a Mass, it was a “new age” ceremony that borrowed Catholic themes only to dilute them down with multi-culturalism, feminism and other worldly distractions. Seriously, have any of you ever heard a more un-holy version of the Agnus Dei than what was “performed” here? I’m trying hard to control my disgust but it is so difficult. Faithful Catholics, get out of the Diocese of Los Angeles! Most Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us. Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us, St. Joseph, terror of demons, pray for us. St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him we humbly pray. And do thou o Prince of the Heavenly Host. By the Power of God, cast into hell satan and all the evil spirits of the world who wander through the world for the ruin of souls.

  57. Ignatius says:

    Nothing surpasses our Ash Wednesday and First Anniversary of Hugo Chavez’s death Mass, with theo-dance by our president, none the less:

    All this, thanks to our absolutely non ideological and only God driven “curas villeros” (Pope Francis dixit).

    God, have mercy!

    Best regards.

  58. Urs says:

    ” Ya know, the saddest thing about this is that they don’t even know how wrong they are. ”
    You are sooo right! But for the grace of God, there go I!!!
    I am sincere when I say that. I wanted to be a nun for about 10 yrs(Sr of Mercy and all of it is a long story but NOW I am grateful that I did not enter). I have been doing research to try to see how the LCWR got to where they are today… I KNOW/knew many of the sisters and I LOVE them . They are good, caring, loving, sincere….and deluded/deceived people.(And this includes priests, bishops and cardinals) But they did not start out with these delusions. They started out as faithful loving servants loyal to the Church, loyal to the Pope and the magesterium.This is what I have gotten from my research so far.
    They believe that they are authentically Catholic.They want to change the Church because they truly believe that they are fighting to save Christ’s Church. They do not think that they are the ones who misinterpret Vatican II. And their interpretation is a hermeneutic of rupture.They believe that Vatican II intended it to be that way .
    For them 2 Churches; a pre Vatican II and a post Vatican II where
    –the hierarchical structure was changed and
    –the ‘authority’ has been decentralized
    and the laity also has an authoritative voice.
    They believe in the Primacy of Conscience over Teachings of the Church.
    The Renewal of the Church called for by Vatican II means to bring all of the Church into line with this vision.
    They truly think that Spirituality includes the full dimensions of sexuality and that includes expressing it…
    Things that need changing in the Church include:
    –the patriarchal structure of authority
    –the all male ordained priesthood(allow women to be ordained)
    –the antiquated an distorted moralistic teachings about sex, contraception same sex marriage, etc,-
    The whole ball of wax of the view of sex and morals and These ARE the values and meaning of what it is what is to be truly Christian…to be Christlike!
    ALL of this is all good and not evil!
    This is truly what they believe.
    Remember what Pope John Paul II said about being in the final confrontation… Church/anti-Church Gospel/anti-Gospel Christ/anti-Christ…
    I think that is what I think that we have been seeing develope since vatican II… It basically boils down to what has developed into a hermeneuticic of continuity vs hermeneutic of rupture in relation to Vatican II…a great deception!
    But for the graceof God, there go I. We must pray for them-
    prayer and penance–
    Here is an example pf their synopsis of Vatican II and what it means from one of these’rupture’ Vatican II ‘experts’. Sr Maureen Sullivan:

    OR PDF

  59. Shzilio says:

    The spelling is Tegucigalpa (Tay-goose- ee-gal-pa). I spent six months down there in Comayagua with the military in 2012, and we were blessed enough to have the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal come in to celebrate Sunday mass and a couple of the brothers visit the base Wednesday nights for bible study. Wonderful group of guys doing great work. Please pray for them and the people down there – there are many distractions and temptations. Their website has a donation for their friary in Comayagua.

  60. MarkJ says:

    The Mahony Modernist Madness continues… I called a month ago and spoke with one of the organizers of the event, and I asked her if she could assure me that all of the talks would be in line with Church doctrine, and she said the only thing she could say was that the bishop approved the list of speakers. I asked her again, and she repeated the same line. It seemed like she was told what to say… I hold the bishops responsible for this travesty. The Heresy of Modernism in all its ugliness and in all its satanic influence. God have mercy on us.

  61. janeway529 says:

    Miss Anita Moore, O.P. says: “As far as the dancers following Benedictine spirituality, can you provide some authority for the proposition that liturgical dance fits within Benedictine spirituality? I am really interested to know.”

    That is a question for Mr. John West, Obl.OSB, the Artistic Director of the Valyermo Dancers. He can be contacted through their website:

  62. BLB Oregon says:

    “…called a month ago and spoke with one of the organizers of the event, and I asked her if she could assure me that all of the talks would be in line with Church doctrine, and she said the only thing she could say was that the bishop approved the list of speakers.”

    In her defense, they could ask for a copy of the intended text and what the speakers said could still include off-the-wall comments that were not according to Hoyle. You cannot tell in advance, not in 2014. It is more prudent not to make any promises.

    I would have felt better if she had assured the caller that the organizers let speakers know that participants are encouraged to contact the bishop if they have questions with doctrines they are hearing, to reduce the chance of confusion being spread. I’m guessing the caller would have liked to have heard that, too. If a speaker doesn’t want to hear that, it is better they have advance notice, so they can choose not to speak.

  63. pelerin says:

    I occasionally look up the newsletters of former parishes and today have been saddened to find the following:

    ‘There are now some children’s activity bags at the back of the church for use during mass times.’

    Oh dear they are starting them young! I wonder what they contain? Perhaps a tambourine and dancing shoes!

    Actually I expect they will contain felt-tipped pens and pictures to colour. When my children were young they knew that ‘activity’ as such stopped on entering the church where they remained quiet for the duration of the Mass. Even when very young, children can sense that Mass is special
    and no parent at that time would resort to colouring books to in effect distract them from the ‘action’ of the Mass. How times have changed.

  64. JonPatrick says:

    Concerning liturgy, perhaps people should ask themselves if it is something they would seem appropriate at Calvary, at the foot of the Cross, only then would it be appropriate in the context of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. I somehow don’t think liturgical dance passes that test.

  65. RJHighland says:

    There are some days I am just embarresed to be Catholic. Bishops have no problem restricting tradition in their Diocese but let this garbage go on. Bishop Gomez the silent bishop of Sodom. I understand Fr. Barron gave a good speech but I would hardly call him a traditional Bishop. Was there any representation at the Diocesen Conference for the Traditional Latin Mass at all?

  66. CrimsonCatholic says:

    “I understand Fr. Barron gave a good speech but I would hardly call him a traditional Bishop. ”

    Fr. Barron isn’t a bishop, and I don’t understand why so many “traditional” catholics don’t like him.

  67. B Knotts says:

    OK…someone totally needs to do a youtube video of this with Kung Fu Fighting as the soundtrack.

  68. Phil_NL says:


    May I humbly suggest you would do well to detox a bit? A wRECk overdose is bad for you. I propose you consider something much better for your health: squirrels.

    I particular, this article on fighting the good fight in Ol’ Blighty:

    Of course, knowing your aversion to anything remotely squirrelly, the health benefits will be relative, not absolute. But they will be there…

  69. BLB Oregon says:

    Earthquakes and lightning strikes don’t say to us, “These people are worse than we are,” though. We have reason and conscience to teach us right from wrong.

    As Fr. Z would say, earthquakes remind us all to go to confession! Go to confession, pray for our enemies, and pray mercy for us all. (The measure we measure with, after all… when we see blindness in a well-meaning person, it has to give one pause about the frailty we all share.)

  70. BLB Oregon says:

    –By “conscience” I mean a well-formed conscience, not a conscience guided only by the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, the “self-reliant” sort that imagines we can see right from wrong by our own “light.”–

  71. New Sister says:

    Who’s that woman sitting with Abp Gomez? (looks weird, seeing him sit w/ a woman like that, as though they’re equals)

  72. New Sister says:

    @CrimsonCatholic – “Fr. Barron …I don’t understand why so many “traditional” catholics don’t like him.

    I think it’s because of his apparent enthrallment with von Balthasar; also, M. Voris (who has a cult following) has stridently criticized him for teaching universal salvation a possibility.

  73. Shane says:

    @New Sister

    I am traditionalist as they come, and I would agree with Balthasar and Barron that it can be a possibility; they both couch it in terms of a negative limit (“We don’t know the numbers on either side, so we should hope and pray for all”), rather than a positive one.

    Anyway, I am glad to see Fr. Barron tearing into the silliness that is modern youth ministry. Infantilizing teenagers has wreaked havoc on their faith lives. Modern teenagers come face to face with a lot of ugliness these days, and simply engaging in tired sentimental responses will do nothing for them. Give them the resources of our great Tradition, for it is there where they will find answers.

  74. claymore says:

    I have to ask the question: Is it more important to get the liturgy right and to keep the same old liturgy no matter what? Is that not what angered Jesus that the Liturgy was correct, but the hearts were not? [Straw man alert: It is possible to get it right AND have hearts in the right place.]
    I did not find anything heretical in this presentation. I only watched the first 50 minutes ( takes a while to see the whole 2+ hours and work as well),but aside from the Liturgical Dancers (which I too do not like), nothing was wrong with the liturgy. And it was a conference where they celebrated the Mass. Not a standard Sunday Parish Mass.
    I do not like the liturgical dance because we make it a spectacle rather than a spontaneous offering of praise which was David’s impetus. Liturgical dancers are a distraction as well as a temptation with writhing barefooted females.
    But the rest of the service was well done I thought. It was heartfelt, Jesus oriented worship. Included all the liturgical parts performed by the proper people. the female dancers had WAY too much involvement in my opinion as they seemed to be glorified ushers as well.
    I think we should be REAL careful that we do not fall into the trap of the Pharisees which could lead to the unforgivable sin that Jesus spoke of wherein we assign the things of God to the things of Satan (gaia or whomever…)
    There are many different cultures and expressions and as long as the core of the liturgy is not abused (which I did not see any evidence of here) there should not be a problem. After all, they will be baptizing/confirming over 100,000 this year. Many of whom were there as catachumens in program that sounds robust – going through the catechesis for over a year…
    Just one ordained clergyman’s observation opinion…

  75. incredulous says:

    Voris has a cult following? Such a loaded statement. Does Word on Fire have a “cult” following? Does Dr. Hahn have a “cult” following? Father Richards? Michael Coren? My Pastor? The Venerable Fulton Sheen? Why do you even introduce the word “cult”?

  76. New Sister says:

    @ Shane – I, too, think it was good of him to go there. When he described the “priests of Baal… hopping and chanting around their altars” I wish he had made a crack about it being “liturgical dancing”… he almost did, saying it twice. :-D

  77. New Sister says:

    @ incredulous – was it a “loaded statement” by His Holiness Paul VI to use, “Marialis Clutus”?

  78. lizaanne says:

    All one has to do is watch this video to know why so many no longer take the Catholic Church seriously, if this is what they are seeing on their television as an example of the Church. There is nothing Catholic about this – it is a stage production intended to entertain. Not a Mass intended for worship.

    I have to say that I was surprised, I didn’t think crap like this still happened with the advent of the internet, and how these productions get slammed and mocked the second the videos get posted. But alas, there are still those who don’t have a clue.

    Oh, biological solution – we need a FF button!!

  79. Kathleen10 says:

    I could not listen to that lady past 15 seconds. She looks like she is just winging it! I cannot imagine sitting there listening to some lady talking and saying ‘yeah, this is alright.” Her soothing voice….hypnotically talking about….zzzzzzz……
    Fr. Barron seems wildly out of place in this Hootenanny, but I know nothing except his seemingly well done Catholicism series. Kudos to him for going.
    But the weirdest is seeing a Catholic bishop there while this is going on. That is bizarre. What has happened to authority? Are Bishops afraid to assert it? What do they suspect would happen if they did? Do they not realize that yes, some people want this nonsense but many others do not and are waiting, hoping, their Bishop will finally put their foot down and say NO. A review of the upcoming program and a pencil to put a line through the dancers, posers, whatever. For the love of Pete, Bishops, just say no.

  80. excalibur says:

    Some of that stuff looks straight out of a bad Star Trek TV episode. Or: The 1960’s all over again.

  81. incredulous says:

    New Sister says:
    18 March 2014 at 1:46 pm
    @ incredulous – was it a “loaded statement” by His Holiness Paul VI to use, “Marialis Clutus”?

    Answering a question with a question is not an answer. It’s avoidance.

    Why do you make a loaded statement about Voris? I’d like to understand.

  82. CrimsonCatholic says:

    I received wonderful news yesterday.I have it on good authority that this is the last one of it’s kind. Apparently Archbishop Gomez is putting an end to this and it will be completely different next year. The sister in charge of putting this together will not be doing it again, but Archbishop Gomez couldn’t make the change until after this one had happened.

  83. Thunder Dan says:

    Folks…you should try living in this Archdiocese. Even a moderately orthodox Catholic must “parish shop” trying to find the least offensive Holy Sacrifice of the Mass…and there aren’t many to be found. The true faith has been decimated here and the faithful, such as they are, are clueless due to a complete and utter failure of catechesis….are perhaps as an intended result of that very catechesis, rather. Oh, and try raising children here and having to continuously explain that what they just witnessed is not the real Catholicism to which they belong. It’s a joy. Career and elderly parents that can’t be left behind…it’s akin to being held hostage. Yes, Jesus I trust in you…but man it wears on a guy being the lone voice in the desert. People just don’t see…don’t get it. Fortunately, the Nobertines have an Abbey about 45 miles away. They performed a coup and took over one local parish and supply priests to a couple others. If it weren’t for them, the situation would be absolutely hopeless. Pray for us out here.

  84. Thunder Dan says:

    CrimsonCatholic – don’t hold your breath on that one. Archbishop Gomez is in charge…if he wanted it stopped, he could have done so. Bottom line…with Gomez, all that matters is so called “Immigration Reform” and Spanish. Period. If you are Catholic….if you are anything other than Hispanic, Gomez has no use for you except to continually ask for your money. He is, in practice, a carbon copy of Mahony. He poses for photo-ops with the most ardent, pro-death, pro-sodomy politicians ever….so long as they say the magic words “immigration reform”. Pathetic. Why does he not focus on the salvation of souls? One can only wonder….

  85. New Sister says:

    @ incredulous – I think the word “cult” can describe some (if not many) ChurchMilitant followers, one of the definitions from Webster’s online (not the best, but close enough)
    a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad
    b : the object of such devotion
    c : a usually small group of people [not small in M. Voris’ case] characterized by such devotion
    I’ve been asked before if I’m “part of a cult”; my response, “absolutely – the Cult of the Most Blessed Virgin Mary!!” [Marialis Cultus]

  86. bobk says:

    Liturgical dance speaks for itself. I have another topic that bothers me, the labyrinth. I have come to call them “Christian repellent”. They seem to be pretty effective don’t they?

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